Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: robbocurry on January 22, 2014, 09:18:15 PM
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Just spied the new QSC TouchMix series, due mid 2014 - they look pretty cool and seem well laden with features....
http://www.qsc.com/products/mixers/touchmix_series/
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http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix
Yay competition!
That's a serious DL killer if I ever saw one...
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I suppose the price is going to be the $64,000 question....
Like the idea of a wifi dongle and 20 track recording to usb.
Had a close look at the pics and the layout looks decent, like the layer/input selection along the top:)
I wouldn't have a problem buying a QSC product, I've had numerous amps from them and they've all been great.
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spec sheet:
http://qsc.com/files/7413/9041/9301/TOUCHMIX_SPECSHEET_SPREADS_01222013.pdf
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No wonder Mackie is laying low their getting it from a bunch of sides maybe they'll finally will decide to stick with analog and forget about the digital world altogether. Strike 4 and your definitely out. Pricing in the $1200-$1300 for the 16 should be good. Just found estimated street price of $899 for the 8 and $1299 for the 16. Nice especially with all the features.
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I wanted to post this qsc link. I just got the email about it. One thing that seems to be left out is programable gains. I see the gain knobs. But in the video it says something about gain wizzards. I'm sure it's probably not automatic. It's probably just a level indicator so you can set them. It's nice it comes with a case. And it's light too.
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Love the additional inputs and outputs, and the multitrack USB recording. Not so keen on the non-standard power input. Betting they got the ground scheme right, though.
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Looks great, I just wonder if they got the monitor system "taps" right. So far only the X32 family has.
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I just wonder if they got the monitor system "taps" right. So far only the X32 family has.
Don't know what that means.
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I just wonder if they got the monitor system "taps" right. So far only the X32 family has.
Don't know what that means.
Then it won't bother you ;) .
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I'd like to know what you mean. I've never heard that terminology. Learning is fun.
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Do you just mean you want pre EQ monitors?
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I'd like to know what you mean. I've never heard that terminology. Learning is fun.
Well, the DL1608 could originally only tap off the signals for the aux sends from pre and post the L&R channel fader. The last update added a pre-DSP (EQ and dynamics) tap. IMO the right way to do it is to have the signal path laid out as:
Input, Preamp, HPF, Gate, Limiter, EQ, Comp, Channel Fader
with available taps at post limiter, post EQ, post comp (AKA pre-fader) and post fader. Some might want the processing order different and some mixers allow you to specify the order somewhat. Cheaper mixers (like the DL1608) often only allow you to specify the tap point per aux - the better ones allow you to specify the tap points per-channel too. You might want all your vocals pre or post EQ but the keys, bass, and kick post-comp in you monitors for instance.
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Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02BgtqrNb_c
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I don't know - that touch screen looks mighty small. And if the IPad breaks you get a new one. If that touch screen breaks the unit goes bye bye for a while to be fixed. I'll take the detachable IPad.
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In many bands, there are at least one other musician who has either an ipad or iphone that can act as a back up. I've got an ipad 2 and an iphone 4S. The trombone player has an ipad too. (He loaded up Master Fader, but My Fader will work on it fine too.)
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Nice looking video and yes it is feature rich. My whole system is QSC K series so I do trust the brand. But then over the years I've owned a lot of Mackie stuff too and never really had any series complaints.
What I'm thinking is what will the PA world look like in just 2 years, wow things are exploding. How about the new EV powered tops with a built in computer for settings for $399. It is a great time to still be playing. I too am 60 years old and coming off a major broken right arm Three breaks in the upper arm but guess what I can play again. First partial gig is Saturday. Will mix half the night on my DL and play the other half.
Sorry to babble but in the end I feel we are all friends here :D
CP
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Features, which make it very interesting:
- channel selective phantom power
- DCA-Groups with PARAMETRIC EQ
- Multitrack recording
- more I/O
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The price is going to be key.
I would really like to add the 16 channel recording option to every gig.
I used to be able to do that with my previous mixers but it involved bringing a laptop and a lot of extra hassle plus firewire sync issues that randomly killed the FOH output :-[
Now I don't have that option anymore, I think I need it again ;D
How this compares in price to a QU-16 is going to be the killer for me.
I have no plans to part with the DL, it's too handy and versatile & having two small "virtual fader" equipped mixers might be foolish.
Recently there has been a large gulf in the prices between UK and US musical equipment, if this is $1299 in the US, it will probably end up £1299 here in the UK :(
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I watched a video on youtube today from NAMM and they claimed a spring ship with a retail of $1299.
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Personally I think they are pricing themselves too high. Too much competition at that level. It only has a couple of features that make it stick out. Some include 16 track recording straight to disk, wifi dongle included, comes with a nice case, light weight and a few more. But I'm not sure these features can make it stick out enough to warrant the higher price over the competition. It will sell but not well. The line 6 m20 was an absolute flop for line 6. It was way overpriced and still is.
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Personally I think they are pricing themselves too high. Too much competition at that level. It only has a couple of features that make it stick out. Some include 16 track recording straight to disk, wifi dongle included, comes with a nice case, light weight and a few more. But I'm not sure these features can make it stick out enough to warrant the higher price over the competition. It will sell but not well.
It has a display.
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+1 The line 6 was inferior to the DL1608 in many ways IMHO, the cost and only 12 mic inputs were significant but the "M. Mouse Esq" operating paradigm was the biggest turn off to me.
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Nottooloud, I was comparing it to competition. What it has that others don't. A TOUCH screen display would have been a feature it has others don't. Not including the m20 because some reason it is in a different price level. But the x32 rack does have have a display and is less $.
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The one thing that I'm noticing is that software updates to Master Fader and My Fader are actually upgrades in flexibility and functionality. Not seeing that in every other digital mixer. Consider the StudioLive 24.4.2. Can't think of anything that's different on the mixer itself after being out for more than 2 years. The DL, is a much improved mixer with the Master Fader updates. That's something that I never thought about when I considered buying one. It surely has to be a significant thing to consider for anyone considering a digital mixer. Are you stuck with what you bought or do you have an evolving product. (Admittedly, being stuck with a MixWiz is a pretty good place to be stuck.)
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But the x32 rack does have have a display and is less $.
You think it would be feasible to mix a show off that display, do you? Crouched down in front of a rack? The TouchMix is a complete standalone fully functional device. That's a thing that makes it different from the entire crop of iPad dependent mixers, while still having iPad capability.
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Consider the StudioLive 24.4.2. Can't think of anything that's different on the mixer itself after being out for more than 2 years.
And they've been promising to fix those cheap-arse 6dB/octave HPFs on the channels for those two years too and no joy so far :facepalm: . They're promising switchable 6/12/18/26 dB/octave just like the new ones on the DL's outputs - whci his one reason why I'm surprised Mackie didn't put that on the inputs too in V2.1 to "scoop" them :o .
Plus now that they have new models that don't need a Mac connected via firewire to record and connect to an iPad who knows if they will ever upgrade the firmware on them obsolete ones? That's what happened to my Phonic S16 when they came out with the iS16 - no more upgrades :'( .
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The dl1608 was missing a ton of features that other mixers already have. They are playing catch up. You cannot down another product for the lack of updates when they are not needed. You should rather praise them for the quality they began with. And yes that includes the dl. They made a great mixer for a lot of people. We all have are wish lists but most of those features will probably never come to fruition. Behringer is soon to release full 2.0. But their current firmware is far ahead of where the dl will ever be. If they never had an update most people with them would still be happy. And it would still be ahead of the dl. We may all still want something, but if they never happen we still have a great product. The new x32 features are great additions but not necessary for the x32 to be a phenomenal mixer.
I'll be impressed when the dl1608 gets an update to pack my gear up at the end of the night. Then I might have to buy it again.
Maybe we should all go back the the days of the analogue mixers, and racks, and racks, of outboard gear. This way if we want to add something we just add another piece to our set up. Instant update! And if you really don't want to do that then just be happy with what you have or upgrade to another digital mixer that gives you what you want/need/wish for.
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The aspect of no further software updates isn't something I'm looking forward to. I've been thinking that whenever a company abandons software, that the software should become public domain. I can see a difference in software support happening if that were to become law. (Supported software is never abandoned.) Will be interesting to see what happens over the years and how soon will Mackie stop working on the DL's software. MicroSoft generally supports their OS for about 8 years. (Even with new products taking over.)
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The aspect of no further software updates isn't something I'm looking forward to. I've been thinking that whenever a company abandons software, that the software should become public domain. I can see a difference in software support happening if that were to become law. (Supported software is never abandoned.) Will be interesting to see what happens over the years and how soon will Mackie stop working on the DL's software. MicroSoft generally supports their OS for about 8 years. (Even with new products taking over.)
Unfortunately making software public most times is a costly affair because copyrights to all the pieces need to be obtained. Not very enticing for a companies discontinued software. Very few if any companies wrote all their own software including all the libraries. If it was originally based on free software then it might be possible. Sun Microsystems found that out the hard way when they made Solaris public but never succeeded completely.
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basically, I want to force software companies to not casually abandon software. And if they abandon it, someone else who wants should be able to pick up and modify or improve the product. Even if it were easy, I doubt that many software companies would be willing to allow it to occur.
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What wrong with a company saying that they have completed the software on a product and will no longer be supporting further updates? I have a couple tc helicon pedals. Both are no longer supported. These are current models too. The company did say because they feel that the product is performing exactly how it should be no further updates are necessary. They also did say if a bug comes up they will address the issue. That's was a few years ago and no bugs. So they are not touching it. Some times a product is just done. If Mackie stopped at 2.1 it still would be a great mixer. Hell, they could have stopped at 2.0. At some point they will stop. Its not because they are giving up. Sometimes they feel as if it is a great product and they are done, or it's just been pushed to it limits and no more can be done. And when they are done I hope they just come out and say so. The only way to continue on will be to focus on new products with the DL brand. This happens all the time with many, many companies. Please find me a hardware/software company that at some point doesn't ditch a piece of hardware. How many people do you see with an original iphone running ios 7? (Hint: none)
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I'm still waiting for a modern version of this http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/LR16.shtml If Fostex could do this in 2009 why isn't anybody doing a DL/X32/QU with an I/O rack and separate physical control surface connected by cat5 or, preferably, wifi, built in hard drive ;D
Like Jerrylee, I have no problem with companies discontinuing updates for their software, it has to stop sometime. It doesn't stop the gear being useful (at least until the hardware becomes incompatible with the associated computing equipment, anybody want a M-Audio Audiophile 24/96, old PCI standard....)
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They also did say if a bug comes up they will address the issue.
Then they haven't stopped supporting it, have they?
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That was 3 years ago when they said that. Since then all they have said is that they are no longer supporting the pedals because they are at their full potential and doing exactly what they were designed to do.
The only reason they originally said they would address it only if a bug appears is to give people some feeling of safety. Since no bugs have been found they stopped supporting the device a few years ago. They are both working flawlessly to this day. I'll probably never replace them. They are exactly what I need and more.
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Been doing some serious looking around since taking the DL back for a full refund. The QSC TouchMix looks very interesting indeed. Got a glimpse of the iPad app from their demo. Looks like it should be fairly easy to use. But can't get the app to play around with it until the product ships. I still think Master Fader is hard to beat for ease of use.
L.A. Music here in Toronto, is taking pre-orders and it looks like the unit is supposed to ship late June, but I won't hold my breath on that one for now. For myself since I still have my ZED 10, it would be smarter to wait for the unit to come to market first, download the app and play with it thoroughly before purchasing and keep doing research. It does look it might fit the bill. Who knows what may come along in the near future? X18 ;)
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B&H says their preorders ship in September. That seems much more likely.
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Been doing some serious looking around since taking the DL back for a full refund. The QSC TouchMix looks very interesting indeed. Got a glimpse of the iPad app from their demo. Looks like it should be fairly easy to use. But can't get the app to play around with it until the product ships. I still think Master Fader is hard to beat for ease of use.
L.A. Music here in Toronto, is taking pre-orders and it looks like the unit is supposed to ship late June, but I won't hold my breath on that one for now. For myself since I still have my ZED 10, it would be smarter to wait for the unit to come to market first, download the app and play with it thoroughly before purchasing and keep doing research. It does look it might fit the bill. Who knows what may come along in the near future? X18 ;)
Buy a QU-16 and be done with all the speculation!
You like the brand, you know you can trust it, save yourself a lot of hassle :thu: ;)
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I just love that "you can trust it". I'm with the people who think you should never buy the first year of a brand new car. I did have the first year of a Pacific Coast Motorcycle and everything that was a known issue in the end, hit me. I was lucky that none of that was unGodly expensive or prevented the bike from running over 100,000 miles. (Many bikes aren't good for much more than half that.) I currently own the second year model. On the other hand, QSC hasn't given us any recent reasons to distrust them. (Don't know their full history.) And as current vaporware, it looks good. Be interesting to see it after its release and a bunch of people have had a chance to experience any problems.
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Unfortunately making software public most times is a costly affair because copyrights to all the pieces need to be obtained. Not very enticing for a companies discontinued software. Very few if any companies wrote all their own software including all the libraries. If it was originally based on free software then it might be possible. Sun Microsystems found that out the hard way when they made Solaris public but never succeeded completely.
so "opening up" retired software can actually cost real money? that's a pity.
as for long-term support, what's a current DL gonna be worth in 5 or 6 years? why would anyone bother? by then there will probably be lots of other stuff that smokes it, and for cheaper. maybe we'll have that rack-mount DL 24-8-3 stagebox, running some more robust wi-fi setup for our ipad pro or some kind of android tablet.
(or maybe we'll just have the wi-fi mixer/stagebox built into the back of one of the powered sub cabs! K-array is already doing this with their little bose stick-killer setup.)
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The real question is what will the DL1608 be worth to the owner. Not what it's worth to others who might buy it. The functionality of the DL leads me to think this could be the last mixer I purchase. Don't think I'll be in the industry in 10 years. (Never know.) My Father passed on in his early 70s. My Uncle in his early 80s. Their sister is still living on moving on her own power at 102. (I'm 61.)
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The June/July time-frame has started for the estimated delivery dates of the QSC Touchmix but September dates are starting to appear on most large suppliers websites. The real indicator will be when the iPad app finally makes it to the iStore which it hasn't. Why is it that Yamaha is the only co. in this business that has product on the shelf when they announce stuff. :(
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delivering on time is so hard when you're trying to keep your potential customers from purchasing something else.
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So you're saying that a few sales justifies the bad press from missing deadlines?
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I'm betting that the bad press is minor compared to having your potential customer base go elsewhere before you actually release a product. The press would be a lot worse if you released a product that wasn't ready to go. (One possible opinion of the DL1608.)
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delivering on time is so hard when you're trying to keep your potential customers from purchasing something else.
Vaporware is a time honored marketing weapon. The Behringer X16/now18 is well over a year beyond their target date, and still shows no signs of appearing.
"Aside from the reduced channel count (16 inputs, 8 outputs) it has the same DSP engine and functionailty of the X32.
Delivery is targeted for Q2 2013 and the estimated price will be around US$ 1000. " Uli Behringer, 10/06/2012
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Back to the subject here is a contradiction on the development of the Touchmix. The article claims 16 months from time of conception to final product by the "Magic 8" in a hotel room.
http://www.audiomedia.com/special-features/0012/qsc-touchmix-explained/957
Who are these people? They go unnamed, The history as I can recall is a contract with M&W for this design 6 years (72 months) ago. Their own description states that Mackie and Watts were the architects and now this? Just goes to show that marketing can turn on a dime or did it take 56 months to get together with M&W.
This is directly from their spec sheet:
A breakthrough in innovation and digital
mixer design, TouchMix is the result of a
remarkable collaboration between QSC and
industry icons Greg Mackie and Peter Watts
(M&W Pro Audio Ltd.) TouchMix not only
resets the bar for performance and value,
but also redefines the user experience for
both professionals and novices alike.
M&W lasted from 2008 to 2010 before it was dissolved.
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They're coming out with some nicely produced tutorial videos: http://qscmarketing.com/touchmix/#tmv
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Friend of mine from the main local pro audio supplier was expecting the Touchmix (prob a demo) in the next few weeks. Not that I really need another mixer but I told him to call me as soon as it was there :facepalm: