Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: abzurd on October 20, 2013, 06:09:05 PM
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I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue. I'll be playing mp3s with with one of 2 programs and suddenly the music is replaced with white or pink noise at full signal from the ipad channel. This is bad news and it's happened multiple times at gigs, including 2 weddings. Here's what I know:
1 - It only occurs if I'm actively using the Ipad while music is playing. In these instances I was reordering a playlist or searching for a song. This has happened in 2 applications
2 - It has happened with 2 applications, mywedding DJ and the the apple music player.
3 - It's only happened when the ipad is docked.
4 - I want to say that this has only happened since installing IOS7. My guess would be it's a bug related to the new IOS.
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First one question. Are you switching apps when doing playlist arrangements? Playing background on music player and then switching to Mywedding DJ app for example.
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It's happened several ways
- Just playing wedding DJ
- Just playing internal player
- searching for a song with internal player while weddingdj app is playing
Last night I just had the dj app up and was ordering the playlist within the app so the "next up song" was something else and boom it went to the hiss from hell.
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OK. This rang a bell at first "1 - It only occurs if I'm actively using the Ipad while music is playing." but now your saying that it happens even if your doing nothing other than playing music with either app. Switching audio apps will initialize the audio, but this is not the case. This however is pointing at the new multitasking and audio changes implemented in iOS7. I guess the AudioBus Correction Studio 6 Digital guys who are much closer to this than I am had their reasons for not recommending iOS7 until it or the apps get fixed. I would look for an audio app that is iOS7 qualified. What surprises me is that their own music player has the problem.
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Is it very repeatable? Could you get it to reoccur in a controlled environment and record your actions? Just thinking it would be very powerful for using to get something sorted asap.
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The fact their own player has the problem is what has me thinking it's Mackie. They've not released new software since IOS7 came out. I was kind of hoping others had experienced the same issue.
That reminds me too that myfader stopped working when I installed IOS7. A few days ago I reinstalled and intended on trying it last night but forgot. It's not practicle to play around between gigs due to how I store the trailer in the garage. I ought to reinstall the masterfader app. Maybe that would help.
Lastly, another gotcha is on two occasions now the ipad hasn't recognized the mixer. It won't charge and actually says it's not compatible. I reboot the ipad and all is good again. I can't remember if this was post IOS7 both times or not. FWIW, it's an Ipad 3 so shouldn't be any issues. I also remote mix with an original Ipad.
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Is it very repeatable? Could you get it to reoccur in a controlled environment and record your actions? Just thinking it would be very powerful for using to get something sorted asap.
It's repeatable in the sense that if I play around with the ipad while docked and music is playing it will eventually do it. Except for the fact it's never done it while not being used (just playing music on it's own) there is no pattern that guarantees it will or won't malfunction. Last night it did it after I'd moved about 10 of 12 songs up the playlist. The first 9 songs were moved with no issue then it lost the audio and started hissing.
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Not sure it can be the Mackie, since I am pretty sure it receives an analogue signal from the iPad, so couldn't make the white noise or if it did it could happen anytime. Someone do please correct me if I am wrong.
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Not sure it can be the Mackie, since I am pretty sure it receives an analogue signal from the iPad, so couldn't make the white noise or if it did it could happen anytime. Someone do please correct me if I am wrong.
Maybe, but I've farted around on the ipad on the couch way more than I've multi-tasked while docked and I've never had the issue then. It's only when docked and, since installing IOS7, it's happened at nearly every show at least once.
Also, it doesn't have to be strictly an audio bug. The masterfader app could be wigging out.
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Not sure it can be the Mackie, since I am pretty sure it receives an analogue signal from the iPad,
Nope, it's digital.
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Not sure it can be the Mackie, since I am pretty sure it receives an analogue signal from the iPad, so couldn't make the white noise or if it did it could happen anytime. Someone do please correct me if I am wrong.
Consider yourself corrected only USB audio out of and into DL 30pin connector.
The un-docked iPad clearly cannot pass audio to the DL which leaves the iPad program or iOS7 as the suspect. I haven't upgraded to iOS7 for just that reason. Another program I use doesn't work hence v6.1 does just fine for me til fixes are issued. My advise is to stay at 6.x until iOS7 or the apps get fixed.
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It would appear according to this that the 30pin connector does have line level audio out, even if the DL doesn't use it, which is what the accessories (speaker pods) must use:
http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml
Seems overly complicated to use the USB audio, especially when it is being used for the control interface as well. Oh well, someone else's design decision.
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The DL doesn't have pins 3,4 or 27,28 depending on who's numbering scheme you want to use. The iPad may output analog depending on the app but the DL is deaf.
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Seems overly complicated to use the USB audio, especially when it is being used for the control interface as well. Oh well, someone else's design decision.
Actually to use the analog would require the Dl1608 to have another A/D converter - plus the quality of the USB sound is better. It is also "free" as the USB circuitry is already needed anyways.
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You can eliminate iOS7 as the problem. I have had this happen on two or three occasions and I have yet to update to iOS7. Unfortunately, I can't recall what was going on at the time, so can't help with the troubleshooting. Interestingly, this last weekend, while docked and playing music, the iPad strip meters were absent. Stopped the music player, undocked and redocked and all was good. Only time that has ever happened.
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You can eliminate iOS7 as the problem. I have had this happen on two or three occasions and I have yet to update to iOS7. Unfortunately, I can't recall what was going on at the time, so can't help with the troubleshooting. Interestingly, this last weekend, while docked and playing music, the iPad strip meters were absent. Stopped the music player, undocked and redocked and all was good. Only time that has ever happened.
Thanks for the input. It doesn't solve the problem, but it also says it's likely not something specific to my ipad/mixer.
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The DL doesn't have pins 3,4 or 27,28 depending on who's numbering scheme you want to use. The iPad may output analog depending on the app but the DL is deaf.
:D
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The fact their own player has the problem is what has me thinking it's Mackie. They've not released new software since IOS7 came out. I was kind of hoping others had experienced the same issue.
That reminds me too that myfader stopped working when I installed IOS7. A few days ago I reinstalled and intended on trying it last night but forgot. It's not practicle to play around between gigs due to how I store the trailer in the garage. I ought to reinstall the masterfader app. Maybe that would help.
Lastly, another gotcha is on two occasions now the ipad hasn't recognized the mixer. It won't charge and actually says it's not compatible. I reboot the ipad and all is good again. I can't remember if this was post IOS7 both times or not. FWIW, it's an Ipad 3 so shouldn't be any issues. I also remote mix with an original Ipad.
Based on what has been posted it is pointing to the DL code and loss off sync as the problem. I haven't used the iPad to play any length of music so I have not run into this problem on an iPad 3. 3-5 songs at best always fully charged on a 1meter cable. iOS 7 may have exacerbated the issue that's been there all along.
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So if I delete and re-install master fader am I going to lose all the presets I've saved? I'm guessing yes and it will only remember the current show that's in the cache on the mixer and load it back in when it syncs with the new install.
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Why go thru all that effort since it may not even be a bad install because other people have had similar issues. There is a validity check during an install. The DL is known for loosing sync but in the case of iPad music it will be noticeable. Bad code as far as I'm concerned that when you loose sync you don't properly handle the audio stream. Use 2 DL channels if need be and hook the iPad thru the earphone jack. Not the highest quality but it won't scream at you till it's fixed. You might see what the charge level is at the time of failure.
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Just curious because I've also had the ipad not recognized by the mixer from time to time. If I lose nothing then there's no reason not to do it. that's why I was asking. If I lose settings I'll probably not do it right now.
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Need to figure out how to trap the saved shows. Doesn't backing up to your computer save that stuff during a reinstall? (Not that testing it would be something I'd want to do right now.)
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"It's repeatable in the sense that if I play around with the ipad while docked and music is playing it will eventually do it. Except for the fact it's never done it while not being used (just playing music on it's own)"
Intermittent or a bad connection or possibly misalignment could explain what your encountering especially if you are working with the iPad. You might try a short cable to see if that changes things.
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I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue. I'll be playing mp3s with with one of 2 programs and suddenly the music is replaced with white or pink noise at full signal from the ipad channel. This is bad news and it's happened multiple times at gigs, including 2 weddings. Here's what I know:
1 - It only occurs if I'm actively using the Ipad while music is playing. In these instances I was reordering a playlist or searching for a song. This has happened in 2 applications
2 - It has happened with 2 applications, mywedding DJ and the the apple music player.
3 - It's only happened when the ipad is docked.
4 - I want to say that this has only happened since installing IOS7. My guess would be it's a bug related to the new IOS.
I am having the exact problem just the way that you describe it. When it happens people are diving for cover! I am searching the forums and Facebook for a solution but to no avail. Until I find a fix I CANT use the iPad for music playback at all. I will use my iphone in airplane mode in channels 15 and 16 instead. What a pain.
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It happened again tonight....at a wedding. It was during a break and I was moving a song up in the cue on a playlist. As soon as I closed Masterfader the song started up again and sounded fine. It's pretty stupid, but the answer is going to be that I can't run the masterfader app on the mixer itself....only the wireless ipad I'm mixing on remotely, at least for weddings and other important gigs where I'll be manipulating playlists. For bar gigs I don't cater to requests during breaks. I hit play and that's that.
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I'm more convinced than ever that your problem is a connector issue. Do you have an extension cable or maybe another iPad that you can try and just wiggle the connection no program changes and see if you can make it fail. If it's not a hardware issue then Mackie needs to fix it ASAP that's a major bug. I need to load a bunch more songs to evaluate this.
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I'm more convinced than ever that your problem is a connector issue. Do you have an extension cable or maybe another iPad that you can try and just wiggle the connection no program changes and see if you can make it fail. If it's not a hardware issue then Mackie needs to fix it ASAP that's a major bug. I need to load a bunch more songs to evaluate this.
I do have another ipad and was going to experiment tonight. In fact that's got me thinking. At one point I left the tray out because I have an original ipad and wanted the ability to dock both ipads. I'm pretty sure I put the tray in after a few shows once I got the Ipad3, but I'm not 100% sure. If not then it is looser in there than it would normally be. I'll check tonight. Still, when it loses connection it's supposed to just stop playing the audio, not spray noise at 100+ dB.
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OK, so after over 11 minutes of trying I was able to reproduce the issue (see video link at the bottom). It was interesting though as it presented like it did last Saturday where the sound dropped dramatically at first and was distorted followed by the pink noise. For the first time though the noise was only momentary, then things went quiet again. When I went back to MasterFader the sound comes back after the sync occurs. On Saturday I had to quit MasterFader entirely to get the noise to stop.
Oh, also, it's definitely not a connection issue. The ipad docks solidly. I was pulling on ipad and moving the entire mixer around and it was fine.
Anyway, here's the video: http://vimeo.com/78019409 (http://vimeo.com/78019409)
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OK it survived the shake test and it's like a chameleon with changing reactions. Definitely time to tell Mackie to fix this in V2. Drop tech support a line with a link to the video. Good that you recorded it in action, not much they can argue about. They also need a disconnect indicator in red (their star wheel) when it drops sync according to their test.
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Cudos for your braveness. I chickened out and used my phone patched into channel 15 and 16. The good news is that then I could stream Pandora 1 on my LTE unlimited data network for our band breaks.
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FYI - I emailed Mackie last night, gave them the link to this conversation as well as the video link.
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No reply from Mackie. That's kind of a bummer. I'm going to try my 1st gen ipad as the docked one next show. It's capped at IOS5 so if it's an IOS issue with the software it won't have the problem. Frankly I don't do much mixing at all with the docked ipad. I only was using the newer one because I record the FOH mix most of the time and figure the better ipad would handle multiple tasks better.
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No reply from Mackie. That's kind of a bummer.
I do have one of the Mackie engineer's private email from early on when he was foolish enough to email me about something I reported ;) and I did email him about this a couple days ago. The word back is they have your report and are looking into it. I'd go ahead and try the iPad 1 - it should be plenty fast enough to run Master Fader and play music at the same time :) .
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No reply from Mackie. That's kind of a bummer.
I do have one of the Mackie engineer's private email from early on when he was foolish enough to email me about something I reported ;) and I did email him about this a couple days ago. The word back is they have your report and are looking into it. I'd go ahead and try the iPad 1 - it should be plenty fast enough to run Master Fader and play music at the same time :) .
Cool, thanks.
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So Mackie opened a bit of a Pandora's box patting themselves on the back via Facebook. There are a few other comments about this issue no FB and a reference to this discussion. So my guess is Mackie has known about this for at least some amount of time.
As mentioned, I'll be using my original Ipad with OS5 and we'll see how it works. the bummer is I have to use older versions of most programs due to the age of the IOS so hopefully it's not my permanent solution.
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That's why I'm still on ios6.1 and v1.4.1 of MF. Dumn luck for the most part.
Aloha !
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Just thought I would toss in my two cents worth as well. I also get the pink noise now with master fader since updating to iOS 7. It seems to happen when I switch back-and-forth between the Apple music app and master fader. It happens almost every time I use the mixer. The strange thing is it doesn't always happen the first time I switch between master fader and Apple music. It does not happen when I stream music wirelessly with my iPhone through my router. Only with the docked ipad. Very annoying.
Brian
DL1608, Bose L1S with B2 Bass Module, iPad 3
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For what it's worth, I've had this same problem occur, and it happened for the first time after I upgraded to OS 7. I switched music apps and haven't had the problem since. I assumed it had something to do with the music app being outdated and not necessarily a Mackie issue. I was using an app called "Mp3 Player" when I had the white noise problem intermittently, but haven't had any issues since switching to the Louder Logic app. I started with the free version, but upgraded to the paid version. I've done several gigs without a problem, since.
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Hate to rain on anybody's parade, but I have had the problem while using both Apple music player and Louder Logic and have not yet upgaded to OS7.
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no problem here, but I rarely play music through the ipad. (ipad 2 and ios 7.)
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Well, unfortunately the new MasterFader did nothing to make this problem go away. In about 5 minutes of flipping around on the ipad I was able to scare the crap out of myself. I was wearing headphones. Disappointing to say the least.
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Updated to IOS 7.0.4 over the weekend. The problem remains.
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I'm having the same problem and it just occurred again over the weekend while playing a Greek festival down in Mobile Alabama. I went to the bathroom of course that's when it happened luckily my bandmates were smart enough to just power off our powered QSC speakers. I was running djay on my docked iPad although it's happened with the iTunes app also. Need a fix bad!
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I'm working with Mackie and just fired off another email after testing again tonight. Are you using IOS7? I've not had it happen at all on my IOS5 iPad. Unfortunately Apple has turned off the downgrading of the IOS so if you've moved to 7 you're essentially stuck.
The problem with hitching your wagon to 3rd party hardware...and thus software too, is it's very difficult to vet what the culprit is. It's also easy to say it's the other company's problem. Mackie hasn't done this, but they also can't reproduce it.
BTW, I'd be curious to know what the serial number is on your DL1608 to see if it just happens to be close to mine. Mine is 2037399CREU0403 and is Revision B00 (whatever that means).
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Do yous guys force close all apps before running Master Fader and your music playing app at a gig? I think we figured out that makes the iPad much more stable (contrary to what Apple says). I personally have been playing break music from the iPad and haven't had the issue.
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Do yous guys force close all apps before running Master Fader and your music playing app at a gig? I think we figured out that makes the iPad much more stable (contrary to what Apple says). I personally have been playing break music from the iPad and haven't had the issue.
Yes, I only have masterfader and whatever music app I'm using up.
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Yes, I only have masterfader and whatever music app I'm using up.
Interesting. Which app was on the screen at the time of the "issue" happening? I normally have the music app active which means Master Fader is "asleep".
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Yes, I only have masterfader and whatever music app I'm using up.
Interesting. Which app was on the screen at the time of the "issue" happening? I normally have the music app active which means Master Fader is "asleep".
Yes, the music app is active, however often I can switch back and forth between apps with no change. Last night, with just Masterfader and the native music app launched, it was playing distorted music, that was down 15 dB from normal, for a half hour straight. I could even pause and unpause and it would stay the same, except for a brief burst of the white noise whenever I'd press the pause/play button (like a 1/2 second of it). Oddly, there is no absolute on what happens when it malfunctions. About 1/2 the time it's a the huge burst of noise, the other 1/2 it's quiet distorted signal, which sometimes then becomes the blast of noise and other times does not.
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(http://th368.photobucket.com/albums/oo130/angie_lynn219/Halloween/th_Exorcist.gif)
Have you considered an exorcism? ;)
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Have you considered an exorcism? ;)
That would require no fruit and Smackie. Time to get this mystery solved.
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Now that you mention it, I did have the distorted, reduced level once or twice as well as the noise. It was quite shocking to see the level on the ipad channel out of the yellow!
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I've never had this issue, sounds kinda scary
I sometimes run music using PlayMyQ, but something I will now watch out for
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So, even thought they were finally able to recreate the issue at their shop the other day, I was told by Mackie to reflash the mixer to see if that solved it. I did that and tested a few days ago and it didn't "break". This morning I resumed testing and it "broke" 2 minutes in.
Interesting is that I exited the master fader app and there was no change. I wasn't until I paused the song in the music app that it stopped. 10 minutes later I resumed play and the song started playing correctly again. I still had not restarted master fader. FWIW, earlier in the week pausing and unpausing the song after the problem started just toggled between silence and noise. I had to quit the music app and relaunch to get normal audio again.
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So to those of you that have experienced this, can you tell me:
1 - What IOS were you using when this occurred?
2 - What iPad model?
3 - What's the serial number of your mixer?
4 - What music app were you using when the issue occurred?
I have the ear of Mackie support and would like to relay them as much information as possible. You can post here or send me a message if you'd like.
Thanks,
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iOS version 7.0.3
iPad model 3rd generation 30 pin with retina display MD364ll/a
DL1608 serial number 2037399CREW0503
Algoriddim dJay2 version 2.2
In my case (and this has white noise problem has occurred at about 50% of the gigs since upgrading to ios7) I have not noticed anything abnormal like reduced level or distortion prior to the ear shredding white noise. It has never occurred while I'm actively working the docked iPad. I leave djay or the iTunes music player app active on the docked iPad and control the dl wirelessly. MACKIE PLEASE HELP!
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I'm having the ipad audio disconnect from MF. Guess that I'm lucky not to have the pink or white noise with it. I shut down my ipad and restarted it without a change. Got me wondering. I'm also not using this for break music. But in rehearsal with a cover band it's useful.
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This has happened to me on several occasions. I purchased the mixer in October 2012. Nothing good about the IPad channel at this time.
IPad 2
Serial:2037399CRET0497
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Well I've tried everything to make it bleed without success. RR may be right on exorcism. There is however one thing that I did to the DL that you haven't tried and that is re-seat the paddle board cables. I had to disconnect these for the autopsy. Now it shouldn't void warranty since replacement is OK. Mackie should have the instruction for this. While you have the board out inspect it for cold solder joints and fix them if need be. If that fixes the problem then Mackie has successfully carried forward their infamous cable problems to the DL. Inspect the cables and firmly re-seat them. They already have a problem with some of the power supply connector so why not these.
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This happened to me again last Saturday at a wedding reception. the thing I noticed this time I had 2 music apps running. DJ for iPad was active with the music player in the background don't know if this may be triggering it?
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"Well I've tried everything to make it bleed without success."
When you think you have an unusual DL it bites you in the rear. Did nothing but left it running and bingo no connection. Re-plugging did nothing. The iPad was left alone I just power cycled the DL which brought it back. So Mackie it's time to fix the sync problem once and for all. Although it never failed at gigs for me this makes it unreliable and unusable. It would only be a matter of time before it failed at the wrong time Murphy will see to that. In case it's not clear the problem is in the DL code not MF.
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Quite repeatable left it on overnight and same results no charge status is the clue. No audio after disconnect and reconnect of the iPad. With no change to the MF app still running when the DL sync failed. I also restarted the music app and it went to iPad speakers instead of the DL setup. It is unable to reconnect without a power cycle on the DL. This makes the DL an unusable kit unless of course you consider power cycling the mixer during a gig is acceptable. I don't. Will send info to Mackie support the answer should be interesting.
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Text to Mackie support.
My recent update to 7.04 and MF V2 on an iPad 3 has brought about sync failure and I have isolated it to the DL sync mechanism. This of course should be nothing new since others have already been in contact with you. To refresh your memory http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=486.0 . This in my opinion makes the DL mixer an unusable product in live usage. Please address this issue ASAP and give all of us feedback on your proposed action. Hopefully you understand these implications to your product and Mackie's reputation.
The clock is running.
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Because the ipad portion of the DL1608 is thin client and not carrying any of the actual mixers, rebooting during a show shouldn't have any adverse affect on the mixer, that will carry on right where you left it.
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I think you misunderstood I had to reboot the DL not the iPad. I'm not convinced that a reboot of the iPad would have solved the problem but next time it locks I'll try the iPad route. I have in the past run into problems by powering up the DL first and then the iPad. The other way around always has worked for me hence my procedure and suspicions. Physical disconnect of the iPad from the DL and a reconnect should have invoked the sync procedure on the DL side and it did not hence the reboot of the DL. The MF program was not shut down so nothing was done other than a disconnect/reconnect and apparently it was properly handled on the iPad side IMHO but solved nothing. Rebooting the DL solved the problem.
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Got it now. You are right, that's seriously intruding on a gig.
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UPDATE: Been a week and a half and mum's the word at Mackie on my tech request. No surprise there. In the meantime I experimented some more and found some interesting behavior between the DL and iPad wired connection. As you may not remember I am using a 1 Meter cable to induce this state of the DL not re-syncing. This happens when I unplug the cable at the iPad end once done it will not re-sync unless you power cycle the DL. Well I found that plugging in the iPad without the cable will let it re-sync. Before you give me the company line of it's not approved yada yada think about this. The unit will re-sync if power cycled with the 1M cable. Smell a bug yet? To make matters worse it will re-sync if you plug the cable in the DL end. The whole point to this exercise is to find a quick way to generate the lockup, not wait a week or two maybe to find the condition with all the approved setups. Any Engineer armed with schematics and knowledge of the code would be able to quickly find a solution. Mackie I did my part so how about it? This failure is not dependent on iPad audio recording or playback it can happen any time. It is just more noticeable under those conditions. I reiterate that the DL is not RELIABLE in live or other uses until this problem is resolved. This has certainly been re-enforced by the experience of other users on this forum and elsewhere using approved setups.
As a side note Focusrite has experimented with cables to extend their docking station to the iPad and have recommended a 2ft. cable.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PBBSWO/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
Apple never made an extender cable for the 30pin connector (maybe a clue?) but they do sell a 30pin to N connector all 5" worth.
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Here is my 2˘ for what it's worth. This is not just a Mackie dl issue. This happens all the time when I am using Auria. It did it with the presonus 1818, the Alesis dock and my the blue icicle. It happens when I am recording or not. Everything seems to be fine then BAM tons of white noise. I have to rip of my headphones. I used Auria in a rehearsal with a band and this issue came up a few times. So every 30 minutes or so I reset the program. And we were just using it to run the 1818. We were not recording.
My point is this is not just a dl thing. It's more than likely an iPad thing. But regardless I do think Mackie needs to figure out how to stabilize this issue. Even if it's an iPad issue if it works most of the time then there should be a fix. Hopefully it's not a dock connector issue or a recall may be needed. I never use my iPad docked so I personally have never experienced this problem with the dl.
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It seems that every 3rd party vendor is having their hands full with Core Audio's newest incarnation. I suspect that the fruit's answer will be to buy the new (yet to be introduced) HOTAIR version quad core 3Gig iPad. The downside of having your own product depend on another vendors product for interoperability. Not using Internationally accepted standards to build your product. Could you imagine the Internet in this state of disarray?
It is however clear to me that the DL can in fact correct this problem (initialization code during power on that is not used during a reconnect attempt).
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At last night's gig while setting up, I got some serious white noise and freaked out. Turned out to be a busy channel on my singer's wireless mic. Two gigs and a sound event in between and a long drive to the last one left me feeling about 20 years older than I am. (I should be so lucky to live that long.) And to make matters worse the club we were playing in had a truck horn at the bar that they started pulling on about mid second set. I thought it was the PA freaking. I really need to be better rested before unloading for a gig. But actually the PA was fine all night and it was just my fatigue. (First time in that club. Didn't know about the air horn. Got home about 4:30 AM.)
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I just saw this on Mackie's facebook page:
"Mackie: We’ve been able to duplicate this issue. We are working now on a solution and will update when a fix is available. In the meantime, we have found that undocking and then re-docking the iPad will alleviate it, though the problem can re-occur until we provide a permanent fix."
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Musta been a brain fart on Mackies part I can't find it anywhere RR. A little help here.
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Musta been a brain fart on Mackies part I can't find it anywhere RR. A little help here.
It was posted twice that I saw - in replies to other people's posts over on the right.
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Thanks got it, you gotta log in for the secrets.
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At last night's gig while setting up, I got some serious white noise and freaked out. Turned out to be a busy channel on my singer's wireless mic. Two gigs and a sound event in between and a long drive to the last one left me feeling about 20 years older than I am. (I should be so lucky to live that long.) And to make matters worse the club we were playing in had a truck horn at the bar that they started pulling on about mid second set. I thought it was the PA freaking. I really need to be better rested before unloading for a gig. But actually the PA was fine all night and it was just my fatigue. (First time in that club. Didn't know about the air horn. Got home about 4:30 AM.)
That brought to mind a little eight graders wisdom about this. My wife coaches an award winning Barbershop quartet and a few weeks ago on a gig one of the participants had to withdraw (food poisoning that send one to the hospital) so they and other participants were asked to add more to their repertoire. On the way to arguing which song to add the one twin(yes twins) had us rolling in the isles. As they trotted off to practice she said "Suck it up guys that's showbiz". That's the Soundaholics seasoned veterans at 13!
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This continues to occur. I perform as a duo with my backing tracks usually on the ipad fader. No more. Im forced to undock and take audio out the headphone jack and of course I cant charge the ipad or use the lock and am wasting two additional channels returning the audio. Looking to get rid of my dl unless mackie steps up to help.
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Yep. I'm getting increasingly frustrated as well as I have to use my original ipad to avoid the chance of this happening. The problem there is the original ipad has a habit of unsyncing. Also more and more apps aren't compatible with IOS5.
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You can eliminate iOS7 as the problem. I have had this happen on two or three occasions and I have yet to update to iOS7. Unfortunately, I can't recall what was going on at the time, so can't help with the troubleshooting. Interestingly, this last weekend, while docked and playing music, the iPad strip meters were absent. Stopped the music player, undocked and redocked and all was good. Only time that has ever happened.
Considering that it happens in prior versions of iOS leads me to believe its a memory leak issue in MF 2.0. I say this because I never had this issue with the prior version of MF. I will have to install some kind of resource monitor on the iPad to see what is going on at the time this happens. It's happened to me quite a few times and I can fix it by closing down all the running apps and restart MF.
Sorry, just saw the post by RR. So Mackie know about it...I guess we have a workaround. Actually, I've stopped using the iPad channel and use 15/16 linked and use my Airport Express (Airplay). No issues there :).
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You can eliminate iOS7 as the problem. I have had this happen on two or three occasions and I have yet to update to iOS7. Unfortunately, I can't recall what was going on at the time, so can't help with the troubleshooting. Interestingly, this last weekend, while docked and playing music, the iPad strip meters were absent. Stopped the music player, undocked and redocked and all was good. Only time that has ever happened.
Considering that it happens in prior versions of iOS leads me to believe its a memory leak issue in MF 2.0. I say this because I never had this issue with the prior version of MF. I will have to install some kind of resource monitor on the iPad to see what is going on at the time this happens. It's happened to me quite a few times and I can fix it by closing down all the running apps and restart MF.
Sorry, just saw the post by RR. So Mackie know about it...I guess we have a workaround. Actually, I've stopped using the iPad channel and use 15/16 linked and use my Airport Express (Airplay). No issues there :) .
I've never had it happen with the combination of IOS 5 and my original ipad. I realize that doesn't mean it won't at some point, but the fact I can make it happen with IOS7 and an Ipad 3 fairly easily, tells me that there is some catalyst in IOS7. I've read about other audio issues with IOS7 and various other audio hardware. Some manufacturers even put out statements not to update to IOS7.
When it does happen it's not consistent in what makes it stop. Sometimes simply exiting the music app does it. Other times MF has to be closed and restarted.
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Here's the article I remember (below) Link to article - HERE (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/19/apple_ios_7_update_woe/)
Some parts of the audiophile community are particularly grumpy about the new iOS build, which has rejigged its sound system (https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General/WhatsNewIniOS/Articles/iOS7.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40013162-SW32) so that applications can stream music and sound to each other for the first time. This potentially renders app-to-app audio tools, such as Jack and Audiobus, redundant: Audiobus's makers have warned fans to stay away from iOS 7, claiming the updated OS has sketchy sound output.
[/size]"If you rely on music apps, please don't update yet," Audiobus's developers said in a statement. "iOS 7 audio is not ready. There are a wide variety of bugs that are causing performance problems, crashes and other problems in a large number of music apps.
[/size]"This may change in the future, but until we see a few point releases for the OS, I strongly urge you to stick with iOS 6."
[/size]But Native Instruments, a maker of software synthesisers, has also warned (http://www.native-instruments.com/knowledge/questions/1723/Important+Notes+regarding+iOS+7+compatibility+with+Native+Instruments+products) users should expect "random disconnections, iOS device restarts, distortion and chopped audio" when using its mixer hardware with Apple devices. It didn't mention that some musicians may actually find some of these artefacts attractive, judging by what the kids are listening to these days (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJjGsUAl2k).
Here's some other random stuff.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5567366
https://discussions.apple.com/message/23059005#23059005
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130918174800AAF7bY2
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20247053/ios-7-avaudioplayer-noise-at-the-end-of-audio-playback
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You can eliminate iOS7 as the problem. I have had this happen on two or three occasions and I have yet to update to iOS7. Unfortunately, I can't recall what was going on at the time, so can't help with the troubleshooting. Interestingly, this last weekend, while docked and playing music, the iPad strip meters were absent. Stopped the music player, undocked and redocked and all was good. Only time that has ever happened.
Considering that it happens in prior versions of iOS leads me to believe its a memory leak issue in MF 2.0. I say this because I never had this issue with the prior version of MF. I will have to install some kind of resource monitor on the iPad to see what is going on at the time this happens. It's happened to me quite a few times and I can fix it by closing down all the running apps and restart MF.
Sorry, just saw the post by RR. So Mackie know about it...I guess we have a workaround. Actually, I've stopped using the iPad channel and use 15/16 linked and use my Airport Express (Airplay). No issues there :) .
I've never had it happen with the combination of IOS 5 and my original ipad. I realize that doesn't mean it won't at some point, but the fact I can make it happen with IOS7 and an Ipad 3 fairly easily, tells me that there is some catalyst in IOS7. I've read about other audio issues with IOS7 and various other audio hardware. Some manufacturers even put out statements not to update to IOS7.
When it does happen it's not consistent in what makes it stop. Sometimes simply exiting the music app does it. Other times MF has to be closed and restarted.
Being in the IT business for 40+ years, I've seen just about everything. The unfortunate part is that companies like Apple and Microsoft (whom I'm a partner with), expect other companies to insure their products (i.e. apps and drivers) to work with their OS. You use to have a choice on whether you wanted to go the "bleeding edge" or not. I'm a "technology junkie", but it's gone way too far. So now the finger pointing starts on who's issue it is. Apple and MS will say it's not their issue and the software developers will say it's the OS manufacturers while you, I and the rest of the world have to suffer. Pretty sad, huh?
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Here's the article I remember (below) Link to article - HERE (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/19/apple_ios_7_update_woe/)
Some parts of the audiophile community are particularly grumpy about the new iOS build, which has rejigged its sound system (https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/releasenotes/General/WhatsNewIniOS/Articles/iOS7.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40013162-SW32) so that applications can stream music and sound to each other for the first time. This potentially renders app-to-app audio tools, such as Jack and Audiobus, redundant: Audiobus's makers have warned fans to stay away from iOS 7, claiming the updated OS has sketchy sound output.
[/size]"If you rely on music apps, please don't update yet," Audiobus's developers said in a statement. "iOS 7 audio is not ready. There are a wide variety of bugs that are causing performance problems, crashes and other problems in a large number of music apps.
[/size]"This may change in the future, but until we see a few point releases for the OS, I strongly urge you to stick with iOS 6."
[/size]But Native Instruments, a maker of software synthesisers, has also warned (http://www.native-instruments.com/knowledge/questions/1723/Important+Notes+regarding+iOS+7+compatibility+with+Native+Instruments+products) users should expect "random disconnections, iOS device restarts, distortion and chopped audio" when using its mixer hardware with Apple devices. It didn't mention that some musicians may actually find some of these artefacts attractive, judging by what the kids are listening to these days (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJjGsUAl2k).
Here's some other random stuff.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5567366
https://discussions.apple.com/message/23059005#23059005
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130918174800AAF7bY2
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20247053/ios-7-avaudioplayer-noise-at-the-end-of-audio-playback
I will guarantee you this. Neither MS or Apple are going to wait to release an OS. Apple has gotten worse over the years. So sales and marketing driven that they don't care if it's bug free or not. Apple is their own entity, but in the MS world, PC manufactures are forced into it. Try buying a consumer laptop or desktop without Windows 8. Or even better, being able to downgrade to Windows 7. No supporting drivers from the PC manufacturers :(. I've run software development teams over the years, so I'm also not going to blame the OS mfrs 100%. Some application development companies may be taking the shortcut approach and just modifying their code to get it to work vs rewriting their code (too much $$). Both Apple and MS provide a SDK.
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Harpman is right on it. :thu: In this case Apple may be more at fault than is made public. Third party developers have raised the red flag on them as have users but unfortunately they're at the mercy of Apple to fix it. AudioBus is a special case since the Borg is trying to assimilate them (remember the compression wars with M$). A page out of M$ playbook. This effort started with iOS7. From Apples past track record on Blue Tooth where some of the devices stopped functioning with I think iOS5 the user where told to go get a compatible one. Yup go buy a new Beamer because Apples Blue Tooth wouldn't work with your previously functioning devices! Mackie may unfortunately be in a situation like this and the only way to resolve it is to find a workaround if possible. They may however not have the talent to accomplish this in house. If it's not fixed by NAMM 2014 it will cost them dearly as their competitors will blow their doors off in other areas as well and certainly use this against them.
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The strange thing is it doesn't appear to be making much of a problem for Mackie. Short of this thread and a Facebook comment or two, there's not big outcry over what I see as some serious connectivity and usability issues.
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The strange thing is it doesn't appear to be making much of a problem for Mackie. Short of this thread and a Facebook comment or two, there's not big outcry over what I see as some serious connectivity and usability issues.
That's all they have other than their website. The Facebook comments and there are many more that are sooh far down the list and I think Mackie is hoping these people will go away. Many probably have by dumping their DL. Time will tell and I'm sure their watching the bottom line. We are however talking about service and a bad reputation is hard to overcome once you have it just ask Behringer.
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One of the things not documented with the various white noise and disconnect problems is the setups on the iPad. I scanned Apples SDK for a audio session requirement (player) and it's a veritable mine field. Here are clear issues that may reduce or even eliminate the problem. For those with cellular shut everything relating to receiving calls off. Those with WiFi here's a list of things to turn off. First Siri, no need for interruptions that can stop an audio stream. Bluetooth needs to be off. All notification stuff needs to be turned off. Sound check is not ready for prime time and needs to be off. All audio playback would be routed through this wonder that's supposed to end the loudness wars ;D. If you dock the unit enable Airplane mode. In my case if you play background with the Music player then load AudioTools it will stop the audio but restarting music player will make both happy. So a sequence of steps can be problematic. This all relates to issues with what interrupts the audio stream. This is all Apple code and most likely is the source of the problem. If you hoping that either iOS 7.1 or MF 2.1 will fix this good luck. One word of caution when you make changes write down what you changed it may help isolate the issue. All these settings can be found in Setup. My iPad just proved that it's a computer and audio stopped working but a lot of other things worked just fine, the old reboot routine fixed that problem. I recommend reboot as a daily regiment or at least before a gig. Don't change a few things and post the next day that it's fixed we all know better. :) Give it a week but feedback would be nice.
UPDATE: I spoke with Mackie's tech support Anthony and he stated that the white noise / sync problem has not been fixed in V2.1. The above procedures have worked for me and that's with a 1 meter extension cable. I recommend that all iOS optimizations as listed in the manual be done along with the other ones I listed. iOS v7.1 may have a surprise for us and the problem may magically disappear. :)
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Well after 48+ hrs the iPad is back at it. Dropped programs that do audio streaming. Too bad it was looking promising maybe iOS 7.1 but I'm not holding my breath. :( Nothing was touched on the DL. 100% iPad issues. The battery charge also dropped over the 48+ hrs to 91% and may still have a part in this
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I've never had the ipad charge drop while docked. Matter of fact, if a night starts with the ipad at 70%, it will be fully charged by the end of the gig. We might want to look at this as at least a contributing factor. Might also be a good idea to see what serial numbers are affected. In case it's a manufacturing run. (Not likely but hey, we're already grasping at straws.) I still haven't ever experienced this, but I only play music during rehearsal when examining a piece we're working on. (Something I do directly out of the ipad when rehearsing personally.)
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Last night my ipad did the whole "noise thing" while in MasterFader. That's new. For bar shows I just turn on the break music when I get the PA up and running an just let it play all night, fading it in an out as needed. So right before the show I'm making some last minute adjustments and touch the mains EQ icon on the ipad. That was it..... the ipad went into full white noise mode.
I turned off the music app and decided I'll just connect music through a channel. I could see output on the ipad but nothing through the speakers. So I rebooted MasterFader. Still nothing. Rebooted the mixer. Plugged the ipad in and super, the mixer didn't recognize the ipad. It wouldn't charge it nor work with MasterFader. I ended up using the ipad 1 for the show. 1/2 way through the show the docked ipad 1, which I'd seen lose connection a few times, just dropped out entirely and never came back. That's new. So great, even though it will play docked music fine, I had to undock it and redock to get the mixer to recognize it.
The short story is I'm just about done with this thing. Fantastic concept, but just full of bugs.
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It just occured to me that maybe telling the iPad not to let Master Fader access the microphone might help this issue?
"Settings", "Privacy", "Microphone", "Master Fader" = off .
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I can't see how that would help, but if I recall correctly, you need to allow access to the microphone to record on the mixer. On the other hand, that's not something everyone needs all the time. I'd say give it a shot. It might open up a little more processing power. Has anyone noticed if this issue is more likely to occur on particular models of ipad?
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I can't see how that would help,
The problem is with iOS's sound subsystem so having Master Fader not access it might help?but if I recall correctly, you need to allow access to the microphone to record on the mixer.
Only if you are using Master Fader's built-in recorder. I use Voice Record Pro myself so have no need to have Master Fader record.
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Here's a thought has anyone used DJ Player V7.1 to play BG music. It's claim to fame is NO APPLE code used 100% their own. This would help pinpoint the problem. There's a free version.
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Here's a thought has anyone used DJ Player V7.1 to play BG music. It's claim to fame is NO APPLE code used 100% their own. This would help pinpoint the problem. There's a free version.
The probability that it makes zero OS calls is 0% IMO .
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Here's a thought has anyone used DJ Player V7.1 to play BG music. It's claim to fame is NO APPLE code used 100% their own. This would help pinpoint the problem. There's a free version.
The probability that it makes zero OS calls is 0% IMO .
Picky, picky, picky of course it has to use iOS system calls but NO CORE AUDIO calls.
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I couldn't figure out a way to get it to just play through a playlist? And the "free" version likes to stop and bitch at you to "upgrade" for $20. It was also buggy getting the second "deck" to work, dunno if that was part of the "free" crippleware or not?
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Oh, and while iOS 7.0.6 doesn't claim any bugfixes in core audio I'd sure like to hear if it fixes this isue for anyone? Rumor is that 7.1 is due within the month too - seems strange to ship a 7.0.6 unless it has something critical fixed that they didn't want to mention (AKA something in iOS 7.0.4 was totally borked).
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I think the bug count was over 1000 with a lot in CORE Audio and multitasking. Every once in a while I have to pry all of you loose from that tree your clinging to and get you to take a step back and look at the forest. Apple Computer once was a computer company but in 2007 it's illustrious leader declared it otherwise and called it Apple Inc. a consumer products company. He stated that only one of it's products was a computer ::). Since then Apple's main product has been iPhone and iTunes service all other products have been declining in total sales for a number of years. What concerns them now even more is the declining market share in their key business iPhones. Their main attention and highest priority is phone code and it's toys, AUDIO takes a backseat to it so get over it.