Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Keyboard Magic on September 28, 2015, 01:03:19 AM
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Sorry this is a bit long winded, but wanted to fill in some background info along the way. :-[
So at the Church dinner gig last night I was using the DL1608 wirelessly with the AP Express, iPod Touch 5th Gen with AirPlay, and one iPad 2 docked in the DL. Using an Air 2 for remote. I was playing keyboards for dinner music and in between playing keys, I played audio tracks for break music.
Every time I switched from keys to AirPlay I would have to reconnect the iPod Touch AirPlay function to the AP Express. The weirder thing was that when I was playing audio trax, AirPlay never disconnected. The iPod was practically sitting on top of the AirPort express! I never moved it all evening.
Wireless with the DL was perfectly flawless, no loss of sync the whole gig. I had not updated to the latest iterations of MF and iOS 9 prior to the gig on Sat night.
I am running on the 5 GHz band exclusively. Shouldn’t have been interference in a small Church Hall with about 50 people and the hall does not have any wireless access points or repeaters anywhere. Hall is old, no ground on AC outlets anywhere. Ugh!
Now everything is updated to iOS 9.0.1, and MF 3.2.2. I should probably test the same setup with the new updates to see if I can recreate the problem. Unfortunately only at home.
Has anyone run into this little bug when using AirPlay with the new iOS 9?
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" The iPod was practically sitting on top of the AirPort express! I never moved it all evening. "
That could be your problem, too close. Check it out I don't have a iPod 5.
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" The iPod was practically sitting on top of the AirPort express! I never moved it all evening. "
That could be your problem, too close. Check it out I don't have a iPod 5.
You'd think that being that close together, nothing could interrupt the signal? Or maybe too strong a signal? I will play around at home varying the distances. I know I never had to reconnect AirPlay at the school 50 feet away from the AP, even with 100 people and all their active phones.
Gotta be bad Karma maybe? :mrgreen:
It's actually not a big deal since it's solid while working and it's only a minor annoyance at most though. ;)
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Hi KM,
I agree with WK154.
Years ago I had an AKG wireless system that specified the transmitter be at least 16' from the receiver.
Distance probably varies with wireless strength, frequency, etc.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
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Hi KM,
I agree with WK154.
Years ago I had an AKG wireless system that specified the transmitter be at least 16' from the receiver.
Distance probably varies with wireless strength, frequency, etc.
Thanks and good health, Weogo
Thank you to you and WK. :thu: :thu: I will certainly give that a try. 8)
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I'm not sure of the exact reasons, but my guess would be the ghost broadcast frequencies. If you live right beside a radio antenna, you will get that channel in about 5 different frequencies. (Radio version of overtones.)
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An update to my OP about this topic, if you're interested of course. 8)
Still having a lot of trouble with Airplay dropping sync when playing tracks with any iDevice. It’s rock steady while playing tunes to the express, but when you leave it idle for up to 5 minutes (devices not allowed to go to sleep, always on) and come back to use airplay, you have to force the iDevice to reconnect.
Using Airplay with the windows laptop and iTunes, Airplay never drops even when left idle. Was on the phone to Apple Support about this issue, spoke to Apple networking tech and even an iOS tech. They couldn’t figure out what was going on.
It was suggested that I do a complete recovery on my iPod Touch 5th gen using iTunes. This wipes everything off the device and does a complete re-install of, in this case, iOS 9.1. I did this and when everything was restored, I tried Airplay once again and low and behold, it dropped Airplay sync with the express router regular as clock work when left to idle. I even reset my express router back to factory specs as well, to no avail.
I tried both the iPad 2 and Air 2 with the same results. Ugh!
Funny that there are no issues with a laptop running Windows 10, iTunes and Airplay with the AirPort Express whatsoever.
Starting to think that there is a bug with iOS 9.X causing AirPlay connectivity to drop like that. Not good when playing backing tracks for choirs at major (okay small) school concerts. Actually even the iOS tech hinted that this might, kinda like, even possibly be an iOS 9.X issue and that iOS 9.2 might, sort of fix it.
Here’s hoping for a fairly quick release of iOS 9.2, cause once you’ve run your shows completely wireless (okay dozens of times!) you never go back. (if you don't have to, of course as a last resort, hence the backup analog mixer)
Thank you for reading this. 8)
PS: Wireless connectivity with the Airport Express, DL1608 and MF is rock solid all the time. Not ever one drop out, that I noticed. Hmm!
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loosing connectivity is never fun, so I feel sad for you.
If I were supplying sound for an event such as yours, I would never use Airplay for the tracks, especially if it is in front of an audience.
I would connect an MP3 player of your choice to the Mackie mixer's line inputs.
As professional engineers, (professional = profession, only meaning that we are paid),...
we should expect anything that is wireless can fail far more likely than a physically connected device.
So, if you are in a position where using a wired device for something like this is possible, that is always going to be the most reliable way to go.
.02
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As professional engineers, (professional = profession, only meaning that we are paid),...
we should expect anything that is wireless can fail far more likely than a physically connected device.
So, if you are in a position where using a wired device for something like this is possible, that is always going to be the most reliable way to go.
100% agree - even though I hardly ever get paid for my engineering ;-)
The beauty of the Mackie wireless mixing is that even when the wireless connection fails, there is no loss of audio signal (just loss of my ability to change anything >:( ). Using AirPlay for part of the performance takes away this safety net.
To avoid this, I am using a HifiBerry (www.hifiberry.com - essentially a Raspberry Pi with an improved audio interface) running Volumio as my audio player for break music, backing tracks etc. instead of a classic MP3 player. Advantage: I can control it just like the DL32R - via WiFi with my iPad (it's attached to the same Wifi access point as my DL32R). And it's super-easy to put tracks on it - no fiddling with iTunes or an unwieldy file system as in the DL32R - simply put the mp3 files on a USB stick (in whatever directory structure) and attach it to the HifiBerry - done!
And the whole package (Raspberry, audio interface board, case, power supply, memory card, cables) is less than 100 Euros - not too bad...
Cheers,
Torsten
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Thanks to both of you; dpdan and ToH2002 for your input on my issue. I truly appreciate it! :thu: :thu:
Since I run the sound from the back of the venue, using AirPlay was the most logical and cost effective thing to use. Having the audio player at FOH connected to the DL is more secure, but I’d have to assign a reliable person to cue up the tracks for me. But as you mentioned dpdan, it is a wiser solution.
Having said that, I’ve come across an app that may just be the ticket for my iOS woes. It’s called Tango Remote with Up Next Queue. $5.79 CDN at the app store.
http://blueatlastechnology.com/tangoremote/
It might be just the right thing for my particular situation. I can leave the iPod Touch direct connected to the DL and run it with Tango Remote from my second iPad, thus removing AirPlay from the equation, even though I’m still using my wireless network. And keep my fingers crossed that iOS 9.2 cures this particular ailment affecting AirPlay. When it's released soon, that is. ::)
ToH2002;
Your solution looks very interesting too. I will certainly consider it, if all else fails.
Thank you both once again!
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Having said that, I’ve come across an app that may just be the ticket for my iOS woes. It’s called Tango Remote with Up Next Queue. $5.79 CDN at the app store.
http://blueatlastechnology.com/tangoremote/
It might be just the right thing for my particular situation. I can leave the iPod Touch direct connected to the DL and run it with Tango Remote from my second iPad, thus removing AirPlay from the equation, even though I’m still using my wireless network.
This looks pretty much the same as my solution: attach the player directly to the DL and remote control it from wherever you are, eliminating the need for a Minion sitting by the DL to cue up the next song. Minor advantage of my Solution: the HifiBerry is a pretty unspectacular black box, mounted within my mixer rack, and thus not as likely to spontaneously evaporate as a shiny nice iPod Touch sitting unwatched on a busy stage ;-)
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"Minor advantage of my Solution: the HifiBerry is a pretty unspectacular black box, mounted within my mixer rack, and thus not as likely to spontaneously evaporate as a shiny nice iPod Touch sitting unwatched on a busy stage ;-)"
Especially at an Elementary School too! :eek:
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KM I can't remember if you tried Bluetooth in the past but since you have a docked iPod Touch and iPad then Bluetooth is available and I would use it with Tango. It's a lot more robust than WiFi and I've had no issues using both together. Interference is a myth and once paired reconnect is automatic. Distance would be the only issue with Apple devices, a class 2 which limits you to 33 ft or less.
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KM I can't remember if you tried Bluetooth in the past but since you have a docked iPod Touch and iPad then Bluetooth is available and I would use it with Tango. It's a lot more robust than WiFi and I've had no issues using both together. Interference is a myth and once paired reconnect is automatic. Distance would be the only issue with Apple devices, a class 2 which limits you to 33 ft or less.
I thought about Bluetooth, but what about all the smart devices in the room, 50 -70 phones that could connect with Bluetooth and possible disruption of my BT streaming?
Or what about one of these connected audio out to the DL and stream BT from my iPod Touch?
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/amped-wireless-amped-wireless-bluetooth-speaker-adapter-btsa1-ca-btsa1-ca/10299766.aspx
Here's the products home page too:
http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/btsa1.html
I guess I have to remember that I'm sweating the logistics and it is volunteer work. I guess I wouldn't have it any other way though. Gotta do your best at all times. 8)
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I think you are confused about how it works. The Bluetooth in this case (Tango control) Ipad to Ipod is not streaming audio. The iPod is presenting audio to the DL wired. The control is via Bluetooth from the iPad. It takes a pair state for the devices to connect so no phone can hook up unless both are in that state. Would you let anyone go thru that process knowingly?
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Certainly not, for sure.
What is your opinion on the Amped BT Receiver? Looks pretty good.
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I've found a lot of junk in the market especially in Bluetooth. Marketing Droids like to overstate their products and in the Bluetooth case it's class = power (distance). IIRC class 2 is anything between about 3 ft. to 33ft. Class 1 the highest is from 33 .0001 ft to 333ft. You get my drift. You have to get a distance out of the manufacturer along with the BT Version #(V4.1 is current). For just playback you needn't worry about delays which will be in the 100ms to 200ms range. If you need better than that you need to turn to AptX low delay units. The one you asked about lists none of the above, NG. Why do you need all that distance? Try your existing units first. Am I detecting a case of GAS here?
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I agree, Bluetooth is a good way to reliably control another device as long as it is pretty close, as WK said :)
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I agree, Bluetooth is a good way to reliably control another device as long as it is pretty close, as WK said :)
Some of the newest Bluetooth gear is good for distances of up to 150 feet or more. I've seen iPhone 6S demos of up to 150 feet in remote control applications.
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Getting a bit confused by all this Bluetooth discussion here. TBH, I don't see the value in wrestling with a second wireless connection method, if you are already using one (WiFi) to remote control your mixer. I would find it more useful to focus on stabilizing the WiFi connection (invest in a decent access point, configure channels according to free frequencies on location, avoid conflicts with wireless microphones, ect...) - you need it to remote control your DL anyhow.
Once this is stable, why not use it to remote control whatever MP3 player you use on stage as well (mine is physically plugged into the access point with a LAN cable, your iPod touch will be WiFi connected)? And of course use cables to directly connect the MP3 player to the DL. I try to eliminate wireless audio connections where I can - unless I really need them (wireless in-ear, wireless mics, wireless guitar) for the performance.
If your WiFi connection is so flaky that you don't trust it to remote control your iPod touch, then you really have a different problem - would you then trust it to control your DL?
Keep things simple...
Cheers,
Torsten
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First off, I want to thank everyone who responded to my post with your wise advice and suggestions! :thu: :thu:
Where to begin?
Apple has no suggestions as to why this problem occurred, but the iOS Tech hinted very vaguely that it may indeed be iOS 9.X and possibly 9.2 will fix it. I figured BT might be the ticket, since it doesn’t need the wireless router to stream audio, but it seems that the professional opinion is that it really only works well up to 30 feet or so. And I defer to your experiences, since it is a bit of voodoo to me, in that regard.
My wireless network is flawless with the Airport and the DL even at 50 feet or more. Only Airplay is not now. Since it is better for me to sit at the back of the venues generally speaking, (FOH is not practical) I need another solution. No G.A.S. The drop of AP sync is a little nerve wracking since I have to spend a few seconds reconnecting the iPod back to AP, when the choir is waiting to start, in front of 100 parents or more.
Since my network is fine other than “you know what” I’ve been thinking of the cheaper solution (6 bucks), of using Tango Remote to control the iPod Touch at FOH (hidden) with my second iPad. No muss no fuss.
I don't have to make a decision until Dec, when all the Christmas concerts start, so lots of time to think. It's not a major priority, although my post does lean that way, sorry. I have cataract surgery coming up on the 12th of this month for my left eye and Dec 23rd for the right eye, so that's just a bit more important. Getting old is getting old! x(
Once again, I do appreciate all the input from everyone concerned, you've all been very helpful! :)
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I don't have to make a decision until Dec, when all the Christmas concerts start, so lots of time to think. It's not a major priority, although my post does lean that way, sorry. I have cataract surgery coming up on the 12th of this month for my left eye and Dec 23rd for the right eye, so that's just a bit more important. Getting old is getting old! x(
My dad just had his second cataract surgery a few weeks ago. Both the first and second were quick and drama-free (unlike his detached retina a couple of months before the cataract surgery). For both cataracts, we were in in the morning, out before lunch, and out to dinner that night. He now sees 2-25 in his right eye and 2-40 in his left, and he can go with the glasses he's needed for decades (except for readers). No more cataracts, no more astigmatism. But he sure looks funny to me without glasses on!
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I don't have to make a decision until Dec, when all the Christmas concerts start, so lots of time to think. It's not a major priority, although my post does lean that way, sorry. I have cataract surgery coming up on the 12th of this month for my left eye and Dec 23rd for the right eye, so that's just a bit more important. Getting old is getting old! x(
My dad just had his second cataract surgery a few weeks ago. Both the first and second were quick and drama-free (unlike his detached retina a couple of months before the cataract surgery). For both cataracts, we were in in the morning, out before lunch, and out to dinner that night. He now sees 2-25 in his right eye and 2-40 in his left, and he can go with the glasses he's needed for decades (except for readers). No more cataracts, no more astigmatism. But he sure looks funny to me without glasses on!
Thanks for the support and sharing!
I am just a little apprehensive about the surgery. Some surgeons here even do both eyes at the same time, but it is frowned upon by the medical community in general. This is done only more for the very old. Less trauma? I'm only 60. (not old enough, rats!)
I look funny to myself without the glasses too! The surgeon said that when the one eye is done I can leave the glasses off, since the brain will compensate for the differences. Not my old brain. LOL Once both eyes are complete, I will have to get new glasses.
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I don't have to make a decision until Dec, when all the Christmas concerts start, so lots of time to think. It's not a major priority, although my post does lean that way, sorry. I have cataract surgery coming up on the 12th of this month for my left eye and Dec 23rd for the right eye, so that's just a bit more important. Getting old is getting old! x(
My dad just had his second cataract surgery a few weeks ago. Both the first and second were quick and drama-free (unlike his detached retina a couple of months before the cataract surgery). For both cataracts, we were in in the morning, out before lunch, and out to dinner that night. He now sees 2-25 in his right eye and 2-40 in his left, and he can go with the glasses he's needed for decades (except for readers). No more cataracts, no more astigmatism. But he sure looks funny to me without glasses on!
Thanks for the support and sharing!
I am just a little apprehensive about the surgery. Some surgeons here even do both eyes at the same time, but it is frowned upon by the medical community in general. This is done only more for the very old. Less trauma? I'm only 60. (not old enough, rats!)
I look funny to myself without the glasses too! The surgeon said that when the one eye is done I can leave the glasses off, since the brain will compensate for the differences. Not my old brain. LOL Once both eyes are complete, I will have to get new glasses.
I know this is off-topic, but ...
It's amazing how much your brain will compensate for. I initially questioned my dad's doctor setting up different vision in each eye, but then I tried looking through only one lens of my own glasses. I was surprised how well I could see with only the one lens held at an odd angle (and my eyes are really bad. You may be pleasantly surprised! I just wish Lasik surgery would come down in price so that I could afford it -- or, come on and give me some cataracts so that my insurance will cover it!
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I don't have to make a decision until Dec, when all the Christmas concerts start, so lots of time to think. It's not a major priority, although my post does lean that way, sorry. I have cataract surgery coming up on the 12th of this month for my left eye and Dec 23rd for the right eye, so that's just a bit more important. Getting old is getting old! x(
My dad just had his second cataract surgery a few weeks ago. Both the first and second were quick and drama-free (unlike his detached retina a couple of months before the cataract surgery). For both cataracts, we were in in the morning, out before lunch, and out to dinner that night. He now sees 2-25 in his right eye and 2-40 in his left, and he can go with the glasses he's needed for decades (except for readers). No more cataracts, no more astigmatism. But he sure looks funny to me without glasses on!
Thanks for the support and sharing!
I am just a little apprehensive about the surgery. Some surgeons here even do both eyes at the same time, but it is frowned upon by the medical community in general. This is done only more for the very old. Less trauma? I'm only 60. (not old enough, rats!)
I look funny to myself without the glasses too! The surgeon said that when the one eye is done I can leave the glasses off, since the brain will compensate for the differences. Not my old brain. LOL Once both eyes are complete, I will have to get new glasses.
I know this is off-topic, but ...
It's amazing how much your brain will compensate for. I initially questioned my dad's doctor setting up different vision in each eye, but then I tried looking through only one lens of my own glasses. I was surprised how well I could see with only the one lens held at an odd angle (and my eyes are really bad. You may be pleasantly surprised! I just wish Lasik surgery would come down in price so that I could afford it -- or, come on and give me some cataracts so that my insurance will cover it!
That's okay it's off topic, that's just fine with me! And it is amazing how quick your brain can adapt like that!
I was given options for different lenses. The basic ones, that are really not the best ones are covered under our provincial medical plan OHIP. I opted for one level above that and mine will be adjusted so I can read without glasses. These are $150 extra per eye. Of course you can go up from there. All the way to lenses that will completely replace glasses at about $1000 per eye.
Then you can have the ultimate surgery, call Laser Guided. The computer via the surgeon runs the laser and breaks up your natural lens without the surgeon going in and manually busting it up. They still need to make a small incision to insert the artificial lens, but there's a lot less trauma done to the eyes, and it heals up faster. This procedure costs about $2000 per eye.
I opted for the traditional surgery since my wife's medical plan wouldn't cover all the costs. But before the surgery as you probably have experienced with your Father, you have to go in for a pre-op visit. They do an extremely accurate measurement of your eyes. This costs an extra $150.00 per eye here. This test is mandatory, so now I'm at $300 per eye.
A lot of money, but it is certainly worth it to get rid of all the glare, etc. associated with cataracts. I really can't wait to have it done. I really can't drive at night now, the glare from all the lights is now starting to overwhelm seeing the actual vehicles and objects like distracted people stepping onto the roads. Before I know it, it will be all done. Thank goodness.
I am very glad your Father's eyes are done and he can see so well. :thu: :thu:
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KM good luck with your surgery, but in the meantime squinting at this, just get Tango and try both connection methods. Never know if it fixes the problem until you try. Hardware wise you already have everything. You already have everything to try streaming audio via Bluetooth, that will test the connection and distance at no charge right now. Remember that Bluetooth is a more robust communications method than Wifi especially for interference.
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KM good luck with your surgery, but in the meantime squinting at this, just get Tango and try both connection methods. Never know if it fixes the problem until you try. Hardware wise you already have everything. You already have everything to try streaming audio via Bluetooth, that will test the connection and distance at no charge right now. Remember that Bluetooth is a more robust communications method than Wifi especially for interference.
That's funny! Probably as you posted this, I was purchasing and downloading Tango on all my devices! :) I've been playing around with it and it works a treat on the wireless and Bluetooth. No drop outs playing audio tracks. I purposely used it with my AirPort Express, of course. Nice little app indeed!
Next week I will have at least one new eye! :mrgreen:
Thank you for your wishes with the surgery and your invaluable help with my little problems with AirPlay. :thu: :thu:
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Well now you have sort of a backup at least for playing intermission music. I just bit the bullet for a Apple CCK and when I get home I'll try a wired connection to the iPad. My Tab 2 Android works just fine with a OTG to Ethernet but certainly not on the DL (say XR18 ;D ).