Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Keyboard Magic on September 08, 2014, 09:30:47 PM
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In case anyone is interested the X18 X Air iPad app preview is ready for download on the app store
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/x-air/id896725230?mt=8
it gave me a "look see" into it and an idea what the control interface may look like if and when the X18 hits the music stores. It sort of reminds me of the X32 app a little bit. It is a preview but it doesn't look too bad IMO. I'm looking forward to everyone's impressions and opinions on it. ;)
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Long nap? http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=702.msg6836#msg6836
Old news. :)
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So much for impressions and opinions. ::) Just slept through the last millennium. What can I say? :P I never bother to read posts at all. Even old topics. Saves time that way. I can get more sleep!!
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WK;
I saw the app and thought it would be a good idea to post the link in case anyone who hasn't seen it can download it. I actually do remember the previous topic on this a while back. Just getting senile. On top of that I am not well, just a bad cold and the icing on the cake is we are in the middle of another small reno in a 50 plus year old house. OIY!
Getting old is really getting old!
Sorry about the pithy reply. :-[
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Behringer are quick to get the X16, sorry X18 to market aren't they? ::)
Glad I wasn't holding my breath for this "DL Killer".
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Going to be really interesting when all the music stores that are taking preorders/down payments for the X18 have to refund it all if it doesn’t materialize before too long. Especially when there are other tangible units shipping soon. Will this make Behringer scramble to catch up?
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Deposits for pre-orders aren't really a problem. It's just extra money until the product ships. But vaporware is always a problem. And if the competitors are building better mousetraps, the costumers aren't likely to wait to ask for their deposit back. I'm becoming an advocate for waiting until the problems are found and addressed and coming from this website, most of us might have jumped the gun. (Still very happy with my DL1608)
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I'd like to check out the DL32 when it comes out, but yeah, jumping the gun is probably not a very wise thing to do, until Mackie hopefully irons out the bugs (if any?) once it has been around in the real world for some time. I did however not buy my DL until the end of last year and still ran into a major fail with it. It was probably just a random incident. (bad luck?)
I agree, waiting is still better though. ;)
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I have to say, I downloaded and tried the app... wasn't very impressed. Quite unresponsive on an iPad 2, small buttons, crashed, poor controls (those rotating knobs aren't great for seeing what you are doing). Was a bit mixed on the ability to shrink and expand the channels to show more.
Things I did like (though weren't well labelled) were the meters overview and the ability to set configure the aux and effects sends from the channel.
I need a bit more time playing with it, but currently its not as easy or intuitive as Master Fader.
Anyone else have views on it?
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I have to say, I downloaded and tried the app... wasn't very impressed. Quite unresponsive on an iPad 2, small buttons, crashed, poor controls (those rotating knobs aren't great for seeing what you are doing). Was a bit mixed on the ability to shrink and expand the channels to show more.
Things I did like (though weren't well labelled) were the meters overview and the ability to set configure the aux and effects sends from the channel.
I need a bit more time playing with it, but currently its not as easy or intuitive as Master Fader.
Anyone else have views on it?
I thought pretty much the same. They're putting nearly everything from the X32 in these little boxes, and giving no hardware control, so it's all got to go into the app. That makes for a very confusing app.
I would think it would be fairly easy for Mackie to add the aux sends to the channel views. There's space on the "panel" with the effects to add six little sliders.
That said, I like the new "stage box" version of the Behringer, the X18R, from a hardware point of view. Very well thought out.
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These apps are getting very busy and crowded. I run Master Fader with a regular size stylus for better control and on my iPod Touch I use a thinner smaller one. Certainly can't work the faders on My Fader accurately with my pinkies alone. :eek:
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You have to remember though that you can set the main mix up on the berry x range with a touch screen laptop, so that eradicates the issues of small screens,
I think it would be nice if these apps came with a simple/complex view option, like the master fader and my fader apps, but one app.
When I front bands I often get stuck mixing too, on a physical mixer I have no problem fiddling with eq and level and aux sends etc,
How do you guys do this on the fly when you have to navigate menus? I can imagine it would take s bit of getting used to on the x apps?
Cheers
Kev
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You have to remember though that you can set the main mix up on the berry x range with a touch screen laptop, so that eradicates the issues of small screens,
I think it would be nice if these apps came with a simple/complex view option, like the master fader and my fader apps, but one app.
When I front bands I often get stuck mixing too, on a physical mixer I have no problem fiddling with eq and level and aux sends etc,
How do you guys do this on the fly when you have to navigate menus? I can imagine it would take s bit of getting used to on the x apps?
Cheers
Kev
While I obviously have not used the version of the app for the X18 (and other new) mixer, I have used the X32 and it's associated apps. On that version, having a laptop of any kind is not any better than using an iPod. It's convoluted and cluttered with functionality that's, at least for the x32 console models, is not needed on the laptop/tablet. Extremely powerful, yes, but not necessarily particularly intuitive. Using a digital board in general takes getting used to. Using it via computer or tablet, more-so. I would mention that the same is true of the current Presonus apps.
From what I've seen, the user interfaces that Mackie have developed are the easiest to navigate and use of any of the digital mixer apps, at any price point.
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Hi geren..
Why would the app running on a touchscreen laptop be more cumbersome than on a pad, are they not that similar?
Isn't the mackie app clear only because the actual mixer is drastically less featured than the x range,
To be honest, for someone like me doing hotel gigs on my own, I want it all as simple as possible
Cheers
Kev
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Hi geren..
Why would the app running on a touchscreen laptop be more cumbersome than on a pad, are they not that similar?
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant that the app is cumbersome, no matter what the platform.
Isn't the mackie app clear only because the actual mixer is drastically less featured than the x range,
Compared to say, the X18, the Mackie isn't that much simpler a piece of hardware. Yes, there's a little more under the hood on the Behringer, but getting around the app doesn't have to be that much more difficult. A very similar workflow to the Mackie could be employed and get the job done more easily. Also, bear in mind that the X18 app that's out there now is a "demo" and subject to change, and that the live product that I used was for the X32, which has a lot more going on that even the X18. But, from what I've seen, the design philosophy from the X32 apps has carried over to the X18 app.
I also found the other apps (from Behringer and others) to be very "busy," in that there is a lot of stuff on the screen at once, and it's often times hard to get the app to do what you want it to do quickly and easily. It's not that I couldn't use the others -- I have used the X32, the Presonus StudioLive, and the Allen & Heath iLive. I just find them to be non-intuitive, and difficult to get around, especially in the "heat of battle."
BTW, the new Behringer app doesn't even seem to allow naming of channel strips -- at least not that I can find. At least the X32 app could do that!
To be honest, for someone like me doing hotel gigs on my own, I want it all as simple as possible
You'll probably be happiest, then, with the DL1608 or DL806, despite the quirks that it may or may not exhibit.
Cheers!
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For all of the school gigs I've been doing, Master Fader has given me a comfort level comparable to using my analog mixer. Very straight forward, especially since I don't dig too deep under the hood much. Even before I got my own DL, I was playing with the app and found it so easy to navigate. I had basic scenes already to go even before the first gig with it.
Beno at Mackie has been saying that the new version of MF will be just as easy to use. Fingers crossed. I can't wait to play with it. 8)
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i agree with you,
The dl would be perfect but it's just too expensive for me when you add the price of mounting trays, I pad filler trays, and so on 850 euros for one mic and playback.
If mackie bring out a 500 euro digital mixer I will buy one.
Cheers
Kev
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i agree with you,
The dl would be perfect but it's just too expensive for me when you add the price of mounting trays, I pad filler trays, and so on 850 euros for one mic and playback.
If mackie bring out a 500 euro digital mixer I will buy one.
Cheers
Kev
Kev you seem to be all over the place with your requirements. If however you just need one mic and playback let me suggest a simple solution you may already own. A iPhone has all you need and you as well as many others would be surprised at the quality of the recording and playback. As much as it kills me to promote the fruit. Here is a review of the iPhone 5 although others (iPad, iPod) are not far from this.
http://kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-quality.htm
If you need PA reinforcement use the Bluetooth path. Same for a iPad or iPod late version.
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I don't think I follow you, all over the place, ?
I think I have been quite clear re my requirements, I was merely agreeing with the chap that the layout of the mackie app is crystal clear compared to the berry apps.
Typical of a solo vocalist I require One mic input, and playback from either a laptop, or pad, and fx, I don't want to record my gigs, I don't want to use this device in a bedroom studio, I don't want world clock, I don't want a digital snake, I don't want spectrum analysers or rectal thermometers,
I work 6 nights a week and get ten minutes to sound check, often have to shift racks off stage because of dancers etc, therefore I want a compact but professional digital mixer with fx in the 500 euro range, actually I would need two, one spare, I don't have 1600 euros for two dl806 right now, but don't want any more toy 200 euro mixers, I hope the berry baby x range arrives soon, as a company they realise there is a market for low channel count digital desks, maybe they are trying to steal sm pros thunder, but who cares,
Just my opinion, but I think if mackie do not knock out a 500 euro 1 or 2 u rack version of the 806 in the near future they can kiss their share of the low end market goodbye.
Cheers
Kev
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Kev;
I hear you. Aside from the analog preamps, could you hide a DL806 completely out of the way on stage somewhere? Unfortunately you’d have to pre-set the pre’s during your sound check and hopefully they wouldn’t need adjusting for the rest of the gig. It is a small format desk, but could be awkward in some situations. I know all the issues have put you off, but they are a small majority. Like I mentioned too many times, the DL I am using now works perfectly.
I know that if you use the DL wirelessly all the time, you won’t experience sync and white noise issues. If you use an Apple Airport Express router you can play audio trax wirelessly from a second iPad/iPod Touch/iPhone using AirPlay. It doesn’t matter which version of DL you get, if you decide to get one, but it should match at least one of your iPads for DL firmware updates.
The DL806 is priced at $660.00 here for both versions. I presume the prices are a lot higher where you hail from though. Maybe you could order from Sweetwater? $600.00 US Here’s the link to the DL806:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DL806
The price is the same for both. Of course there’s the shipping cost. It may be too expensive to have it shipped. You’ve probably already researched this. Not much help huh? I do feel your frustration. I was there too
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I can find ex display Mackie DL806 for £499, so you should be able to find something similar in Europe, assuming that is where you are based Kev (since you are using the Euro as your currency reference). Have you not considered the SM Pro uMix?
http://www.thomann.de/gb/sm_pro_audio_umix_mini.htm
http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php/en/products/digital-mixers/umix
200Euros
And actually, their interface is pretty good too. It provides media playback direct from the mix app.
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Hi guys
Thansk for the comments,
Yes the DL is the perfect size and has enough features for me, the fact that it locks and charges is a real plus because on some gigs I would get away with working direct from the pad/mixer but on others I would use the pad on a stand or stick to a pre defined set and patter and use an airturn module which i intend to conceal in my clothing .i have to state again that the stage is not mine all night, the moment when the entertainers invite 100 guests on stage. To jump up and down, my heart is in my mouth, this is why I can't have i pad stands and midi foot-switches and so on at my gigs , and keep bleating about the simple fx footswitch.
I keep quoting euros because I am a Brit living in Ibiza and mainland Spain. I get paid in euros and have to use this currency when I determine the affordability of gear, we are in a bad recession here and rates are stupid low, so 1600 euros is a lot of money here, the dl at 850 euros is too much, bringing one from the USA just invokes too much tax and carriage etc, 500 uk pounds is 700 euros so I can't win really,
Obviously it's not mackies fault, but they just appear expensive for me, and I have to take in to account the usability of the reverbs, I am told they are not too good, and the white noise issues.
Many thanks
Kev
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... and I have to take in to account the usability of the reverbs, I am told they are not too good, and the white noise issues.
Kev,
The reverb presets are a bit heavy-handed and muddy, but with a little patience, they can be tweaked so that they sound quite nice -- the editing requires adjusting the reverb parameters and the reverb channel EQ for best results. And, as with a decent rack-mounted reverb unit, you can make and save your own presets which you can save in your shows or snapshots.
Also, no everyone experiences the white noise bursts and/or resync issues. There are a lot of users, here and on other forums and in other reviews, who have never had the problems.
As an aside, it would be interesting to gather the serial numbers of the units that seem to be having the most problems to see if there's some commonality among the affected units. I don't know how many of these things have been sold, but it's feasible that the affected units are part of the same production run, or have some part or parts that are at the edge of their specified tolerance that were only in the SMT machine for a particular period of time.
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Much has been made of the DL reverbs but, while not the best I've heard, they are very usable. I did provide PA for a name English folk band earlier this year and their touring sound engineer loved the DL1608 and commented that the reverbs were very good to his ears.
The white noise issue has only affected a very small number of units and only with a docked iPad. My DL1608, bought in October 2012 has been faultless (a friend bought one around the same time and his has been similarly trouble free).
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As an aside, it would be interesting to gather the serial numbers of the units that seem to be having the most problems to see if there's some commonality among the affected units. I don't know how many of these things have been sold, but it's feasible that the affected units are part of the same production run, or have some part or parts that are at the edge of their specified tolerance that were only in the SMT machine for a particular period of time.
Mackie took a survey and about 10 people answered, obviously not a big problem or people who have it can't be bothered to help fix it!
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Thanks guys
A lot of my outside gigs suffer from Slap back on everything so the reverb is not that big an issue, my indoor gigs are few and far between in the winter and generally it is more a matter of price I think than anything else.
Of course thomann who I buy my gear off also offer incredible customer service so I was to purchase a duff dl, it's really no problem,
I think I am just watching the pennies, baby due December, just seen the price of powdered milk lol
Many thanks
Kev
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I think I am just watching the pennies, baby due December, just seen the price of powdered milk lol
Congratulations on the baby! :thu: I was there 26 years ago, now I look up to my son literally. (6'4") Money is definitely a consideration now for sure and Gear(AKA: new toys for you) takes a little bit of a back seat now. Priorities. :facepalm:
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Cheers KM
back in the day you would get away with a radio controlled car for a child in Nappies, but not going to get away with buying him a digital mixer I think.
😊
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Ps thansk chaps for all the links
Sm pro, been following itbsince it was announced , it needs to arrive soon yes?
Wk, yes mate I have a pad air and an I phone , they are fine for what i do.
Kev 😄
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Baby talk:
I have a 20 year old daughter (from previous marriage) and I am expecting my second (new wife's first) daughter on November 14.
I'm super excited, and curious as to how different I will be as a parent now vs then. I was 23 when my first was born, 44 when the new one comes.
On topic: had a Mackie CR1604 and CFX16 when my first kid was little, and a DL1608 now, so it's exciting to see the leaps and bounds of technology as we and our children grow.
Used a car-mounted Cellular Telephone for my day job back then and didn't even have a desktop computer at home. Work machines were all black screen / green text, no mouse (at least where I worked).
Now I mix wirelessly with a tiny device that has X-times the capability/storage/speed as the computer terminals of the early 90's, and it's a phone too.
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One older Father I knew about, had a great time with his infant daughter. The older daughters were in college and when they were taking care of the baby, everyone assumed the child was theirs. It helps to be secure in your job so you can take more time with the child.
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Cheer Rick, good luck mate,
Spot on wynnd, I never planned to become a dad at 51, having an irregular income and all that
Will just have to get my head down and keep my mouth shut,
I am hoping my lad wants a career in music, who knows, the technology available will make it so easy.
Was talking to an old band mate last week, why are there so many really talented young musicians these days, we asked ourselves, he replied, sitting with a record player slowing down the speed to work out riffs and runs, trying to decipher lyrics and ultimately throwing in your own, was a drag, now the kids just google, solo , livin on a prayer, and they get a lesson and the lyrics and the chords in a flash
It's going to be an amazing future for young musicians
Sorry for the drift
Kev
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As long as they're not too distracted by electronics and sex. (I'm skipping booze and drugs. They never held any interest for me.)
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The tools are there for the kids, let's hope they make the most of it,
Incredible I remember when the four track on compact cassette was only about 1000 dollars and it was big news.
Progress Eh!
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I have a 20 year old daughter (from previous marriage) and I am expecting my second (new wife's first) daughter on November 14.
I have three daughters - 30, 23, and 5 <eek!>
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Well done lads
What's it like at xmas when you say Santa ran out of Barbie but has left you a lovely new digital reverb unit instead?
:)
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After downloading and noodling with the app, my thoughts are;
Likes:
1. Trim pot adjustment via the ipad
2. Being able to see all channels on the screen, yet ability to zoom into a smaller group
3. Ability to group and move a fader's left to right position
Dislikes:
1. PEQ and other controls using the classic knobs, w/o ability to switch to modern, as 'my fader' allows
2. No apparent way to save data, show's etc., I assume just left off the demo version
I do love the physical design though... if I can adjust trim pot's via ipad, having the mixer anywhere I want will be great. Just my 2 cents, hoping/assuming Mackie will have a 16 channel rack mount. Fingers crossed.
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I have long been in the pray for a rack mount camp, but I think having a pad bolted in to the dl16 is one of its strongest features,
I did my first live show tonight using a pad and an air turn, the pad was perched on top of an analogue desk in a slant case and was not really safe. I am worrying already about the next gig were my pad will be on stage unattended providing interval music while I am changing my suit and preparing for the next set, some distance away, ok so I play nice gigs right now, but I am heading back to the mainland where gear has grown legs and disappeared, and considering that if had the new berry mackie rackmount desk, I would be creating a plank of wood the same size as my old desk and installing this and some aluminum rails within it to secure my pad.
And on that though, paranoid of liverpool wishes you all sweet dreams
Cheers