Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: JMc on May 26, 2015, 07:39:16 AM
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Finally pulled the trigger on a DL32R today. I've been using the DL-1608 since it was originally released and got used to all it's little idiosyncrasies. I just spent a fair amount of time reading other posts to try and learn more about what I'm getting into here, but I was hoping for some practical advice for making a smooth transition from the DL-1608 to the DL32R so I can get through the first show without too much (or any) drama.
I understand that I cannot import any of my shows created with the 1608 into the 32. Disappointing, but not the end of the world. It shouldn't take too long to get the 32 set up with the same channel effects, levels, etc., that I've been using to date on the 1608. But I am a little concerned about other pitfalls I may encounter. Like the 1608, it sounds like power sequencing is going to be an important issue with the 32. Router on first, then mixer. several seconds later. Okay. Got it. What about the iPad? Does it need to be powered up last like it does with the 1608? Are there any other "gotcha" surprises I need to be aware of? Am I correct in assuming I should have no trouble using the same router that I have been using for the 1608?
One of the main reasons I decided to upgrade is for the ability to record on more tracks. Right now, I've been sending Aux Outs on the 1608 to a Zoom R24 and recording on seven channels then mixing those down later, using Adobe Audition. I'm a little confused and puzzled about the ease in which I will be able to import and use the track files in Adobe. I plan on recording entire shows for later mix-down, but will I need some third party software to stitch each of the tracks together before loading them into AA? Or will they import as one continuous track into my program? As for the hard drive I connect to record with, I understand that the mixer will format the drive for me. Are any specific HDD's recommended? Any issues or concerns about using a solid state drive? I guess that's it for now. I'll keep searching the forum for more answers and details, but thank you in advance for your reply.
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I don't have one, but being the recording drive isn't doing anything else, I would think that any recent drive should have enough performance. Personally, I'd be going for one of the faster drives. Wouldn't think the mixer would care if you had a solid state drive, but price per gig is pretty high on those. (The cheap streak of mine is creeping in.) Recall that they were expecting a software fix to take the recording capabilities up to 32 channels. Faster drive still looks like a one time investment. Slower ones, might not handle the transition. (My thought anyway.) This isn't a place where one of those hybrid drives would be worth the extra money. (Upgraded to a Momentus XT for my laptop. Nice change and a place with the hybrid drive is a serious boost.) That's my two cents worth. You'll probably get good real life help from someone else. Enjoy your investment.
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I am happy for you JMc!!!
it sounds like power sequencing is going to be an important issue with the 32.
no specific order needed.
I turn on the Furman rack power switch which instantly turns on the router, the reverb, the 32R and the two wireless receivers.
I have had the iPad turned on before and well after the 32 is on and it makes no difference. I am using an Apple Airport Express with phenominal results.
Are there any other "gotcha" surprises I need to be aware of? Am I correct in assuming I should have no trouble using the same router that I have been using for the 1608?
I don't know what router you are using but if it worked with the 1608 it will plug n play with the 32R just the same.
will I need some third party software to stitch each of the tracks together before loading them into AA?
I am not familiar with Adobe's software but you will find out. Personally, I would not mess with the goofy multichannel wave file that is recorded to the hard drive,
Just get a laptop and record directly to it, if you use a laptop with your favorite DAW software, you can record 32 channels. Plus, when you get home, the tracks are all ready to mix.... No hassles.
I hate that dumb multichannel wave file crap.
Are any specific HDD's recommended?
I use a Western Digital My Passport Ultra 500 GB.
Any issues or concerns about using a solid state drive?
personally I wouldn't, just my opinion.
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Thanks for the replies... The mixer arrived yesterday. Haven't even un-boxed it yet, but I've been trying to set up the mixer software offline in preparation.
I understand those who may not be a fan of the HDD recording "feature", but I don't have a current laptop, plus, I really don't want another piece of kit to haul around, so I rather like the idea of HDD recording.
Is the Matrix where I would set up recording channels? From what I can gather, you have to choose how many channels you want to record, but say I want to record 1-14, plus tracks 25 and 26 only... How do I route what gets recorded so I'm not recording channels 15-24 with nothing on them?
Also, anyone ever try recording to a USB thumb drive? Is capacity an issue? The reason I ask, is that my current digital recorder, Zoom R24, will eat up about 1.8 gigs of space per track, for over three hours of continuous recording. It would stand to reason that I should be able to record several tracks on a USB thumb drive if it has a high enough capacity. Yes? No? Maybe so? Anyone have any idea of how much space is required to record 16 tracks simultaneously for three hours?
One more releated quesetion: If I have intermission music on a standard HDD, do I need to stop recording on my multiple channels in order to bring up the music tracks?
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Is the Matrix where I would set up recording channels? From what I can gather, you have to choose how many channels you want to record, but say I want to record 1-14, plus tracks 25 and 26 only... How do I route what gets recorded so I'm not recording channels 15-24 with nothing on them?
You would use the patch panel to map channels 25 and 26 to USB channels 15 and 16. Then record 16 tracks. Personally, I would rather have a panel where I could simply choose which tracks to record. But that's a minor issue.
Also, anyone ever try recording to a USB thumb drive? Is capacity an issue?
Thumb drives aren't supported for the DL32R. So, I haven't tried it to see if it would work. Hard drives are so cheap now, it's not worth the effort. I picked up a 1 TB hard drive last week for $60. It works great so far with the DL32R.
One more releated quesetion: If I have intermission music on a standard HDD, do I need to stop recording on my multiple channels in order to bring up the music tracks?
I believe you would have to stop the recording before playing songs. But I'm just guessing. I haven't tried it.
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Thanks for the replies, Michael. Much appreciated. Costco was having a sale on Seagate 2T USB drives that includes a little padded jacket for the drive for eighty five bucks. I figure that'll give me plenty.
I'm going to have to get up to speed on the patch panel routing... and a lot of other stuff... After I format the drive, can I install my intermission tracks in a folder? Or do they have to be in the root? Or does it even matter, either way?
Another question, please... Those 1/4" monitor outs.... What signal is routed to them? I am assuming it is simply the main mix, just like the one on AUX OUT 13 and 14, correct? Can a specific mix be assigned to each of those 1/4" monitor outs? I'll try to search the forum before I ask any more questions. Thank you for your patience in the meantime. I've got two shows coming up this Friday and Saturday evenings and I'm very anxious to get up to speed on this booger so my band isn't embarrassed or runs into any unexpected issues.
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I'm going to have to get up to speed on the patch panel routing... and a lot of other stuff... After I format the drive, can I install my intermission tracks in a folder? Or do they have to be in the root? Or does it even matter, either way?
After you format the drive with the DL32R, eject it, and connect it to your computer. It should have 2 folders at the root, but if it doesn't (mine didn't), create them as follows:
Music
Recordings
They must be named as above. In the music folder, put all the songs you want to have available for playback. You cannot use subfolders to organizze your music. :-[ They must be 48Khz WAV files. No other format is supported.
Another question, please... Those 1/4" monitor outs.... What signal is routed to them? I am assuming it is simply the main mix, just like the one on AUX OUT 13 and 14, correct? Can a specific mix be assigned to each of those 1/4" monitor outs?
By default, the Main L/R mix is sent to those. But you can patch anything you want to them. That gives you 16 outputs. :thu:
If you haven't already done so, I recommend downloading the Reference Guide here: http://www.mackie.com/products/dlseries/downloads/manuals/Reference%20Guide%20(Control%20Apps).pdf
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Thank you VERY much. I have not downloaded the reference guide yet, but will surely do so now. Whoops, that link isn't leading me to ANY documentation for the DL32R at all? Ah, never mind, googled and found it.
Really appreciate the help re: the HDD folders. It's sort of a bummer that all the intermission playback files have to be 48k wav. I'll just be up-converting already saved mp3 files, so all I'll be "gaining" is less space on the HDD. Oh well... Can't have everything, but I'm certainly very pleased with what I'm getting here...
Cheers,
Jeff
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Open up Master Fader 3.x and after it settles down, go to the tools icon. (Where you hook up the wifi to the mixer and limit access for other users.) On that screen you will see several tabs and the last one is help. Go there and you will find a user manual icon. touch that and it opens, if you want it available, touch the send to icon on the upper right and send it to ibooks. I've got manuals for everything I use for sound and gigs there. (With copies on my computer and iphone too.)
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I had Harpman over today and we did a little fiddling around with the DL32R so I could feel a little more comfortable around it. Thanks, Gio. You were a big help. He was also a witness to a bug I discovered when fooling around with the routing section while in the Input B tab. To put it simply, I cleared the default routing parameters and made some changes, only to discover that I could not exit out of the routing screen at all. I tried everything. Finally had to reboot the iPad, but did not need to reboot the mixer.
We recorded a few test tracks on a couple of channels. I couldn't help but notice that the recording levels seemed very low, peaking at maybe -18 db. The input gain on both channels was well past the halfway mark and no compression was used on either channel, which brings up another question... First off, is there any way to monitor the recording levels with the metering on the faders? Secondly, when the tracks are recorded, are they being recorded dry, or are they subject to the DSP settings on each channel? I want to make sure my recordings are laid down with no signal processing, if possible, so I can save all that magic for the work in post.
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My own experience with a DL1608 suggests that recording levels can't be practically monitored on the mixer. Just keep them low enough that clipping doesn't occur. The Preamps are clean enough that it's not a problem. Just normalize your tracks before editing on your DAW. In the old days of tape, we were thrilled to get 60 db of headroom. Now we have 90-110 db. (Check out the Letters, King Crimson, Islands album. That was recorded with analog tape. Don't listen to it in a car with the engine running. It's an amazing piece of extreme dynamics.)
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I had Harpman over today and we did a little fiddling around with the DL32R so I could feel a little more comfortable around it. Thanks, Gio. You were a big help. He was also a witness to a bug I discovered when fooling around with the routing section while in the Input B tab. To put it simply, I cleared the default routing parameters and made some changes, only to discover that I could not exit out of the routing screen at all. I tried everything. Finally had to reboot the iPad, but did not need to reboot the mixer.
We recorded a few test tracks on a couple of channels. I couldn't help but notice that the recording levels seemed very low, peaking at maybe -18 db. The input gain on both channels was well past the halfway mark and no compression was used on either channel, which brings up another question... First off, is there any way to monitor the recording levels with the metering on the faders? Secondly, when the tracks are recorded, are they being recorded dry, or are they subject to the DSP settings on each channel? I want to make sure my recordings are laid down with no signal processing, if possible, so I can save all that magic for the work in post.
Say Hi for me to Gio next time you see him. To answer your recording question if you look at the DL32 manual (help on mixer app) pg. 249 & 250 (block diagram) you will note that inputs after being converted to digital (numbers) get routed to the I/O patch panel. This is the part missing in the DL1608 along with A/B input selection. The inputs are then routed to the USB outputs, there is no processing of any kind. You do however have loudness control in the preamp section. Since I don't own a DL32 I can't verify if A/B selection affects output to the USB for recording. I/O patch is a missing piece in the docs, nice :(. If it doesn't affect recording output then the fader meter is the recording level per channel. The I/O patch needs to be a multi-point patch panel for this to work. My question to you is how did you get the -18 db value?
Wynnd likes to mix in an anechoic chamber to get those kind of dynamic ranges ;) In the live world your lucky to have a noise floor of 50 dB SPL and at 120 dB SPL you might want to get ear protection to avoid damage to your hearing. My math says 70 db at best. He also didn't mean headroom but meant dynamic range. ;)
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I believe I left my anechoic chamber at someone's home. And I personally find 120 db to be TOO F'ing LOUD. (He's right about available dynamic range. But my point was don't worry about trying to get 99% on the recording.)
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Many thanks for all the replies... I just have one more question before trying out the DL32R for the first time tonight at a gig...
In the Masters Section, when I press AUX, I notice that all the faders are resting at the bottom, i.e. zero gain. Does this mean NO Aux signal is passing through each individual AUX channel unless I manually bring their levels up on the master aux channel screen? Other than this one nagging question, I think I've got the rest of what I need to know in check before the show tonight. At least, fingers crossed. Thank you!
Jeff
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Hi Jeff,
Yes, you have to turn up the Aux masters to have signal coming out.
You can do this from the Aux Masters view, or, when you are setting levels, for instance for Aux-1, the Aux-1 master is there on the right of the screen.
I suggest plugging in a mic, and an amp and speaker to your various outputs and trying this out before tonight...
Good health, Weogo
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I, too do not wish to bring a laptop for recording when I can get it right onto the WD Passport that's already connected for break music.
Speaking of which, yes, you must stop (not pause) the break music in order to resume recording the next set.
The multiwav files are a bit of a pain in that you have to convert them (I use Wave Agent which leaves the original miltiwavs on the external drive), but it does not add all that much time to the mixing process.
Since getting the DL32R in January, I've already recorded more live multitrack shows than in 5 years of my old system with Alesis HD24 (does anyone want to buy a 16 ch 1/4" TRS snake? :) ), just because of the convenience.
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I also really don’t want to haul any more gear to the gig than I have to. With the 1608 at least I can get a basic 2 track mix down of a performance. The recording feature is not a big deal for me. For a quick one off I can use the iPad and my Alesis iO Dock with a pair of condenser mics XY’d for a live stereo recording.
The DL32 does give you a lot more recording versatility, even with its little quirks like multiwav files for more serious recordings and it’s better to go through the board than using a stereo mic pair to capture that rehearsal, or do a quick sound check before the concert etc. I’m glad Mackie expanded on the recording feature for the DL32. Let’s hope this filters down to any new revisions of the 806/1608 platforms.
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Post show wrap up and a couple of new questions...
First off, just about everything went off without a hitch, both Friday and Saturday nights. Absolutely love the DL32R and spent the previous week familiarizing myself with the controls that I knew I would need and got comfortable with the USB routing tab/window so I could record to only the tracks that I was going to use. My only real complain is minor, but it's something that Mackie should have better engineered... The grab handles on the DL32R will not clear the cover of the rack I use, your industry standard six space SKG. Come on, guys... If they had drilled the holes for the handles a little closer in, there wouldn't have been that clearance issue. Fortunately, the handles ARE easily removed, but I was annoyed that after securing the 32R to the rack mounts, I had to remove it again to get to the back of the rack ears and remove the grab handles. If I was moving it in and out of racks frequently, this would be a real PIA, but fortunately, my DL is going to live in that rack, so I really don't need the handles anyway - but they looked nice.
There was only one puzzler that I was unable to resolve. Our drummer has a powered sub that he enjoys using and up until now, he's been running a split off one of the main outs to feed the signal to it. I thought it would be preferable to give him his own AUX feed, so I chose AUX 12 and fed his kick drum and Returns 1&2 to feed the intermission music into it. Even though in the AUX Master, I saw great levels on the meter going into AUX 12, they were not reaching his powered sub from the mixer. I tried switching from pre to post, etc. in the AUX master, but nothing... He tried a different cable. Nope. He unplugged from AUX 12, plugged into AUX 13 and boom, there was plenty of signal reaching his sub. What did I do wrong? Or do I have a physical fault in my AUX 12 output? To my mind, if I see that the AUX MASTER on 12 is turned up and I am seeing a healthy signal on the meter for that channel, that tells me that signal should be reaching the AUX 12 output on the mixer, no?
I recorded with the HDD and the entire show created 4 multi-channel .WAV files. All the recordings turned out fantastic. Nice levels and outstanding sound. This was one of my main motivators to upgrade from the DL1608 to the DL32R.
The other question that came up is... Regarding the AUX outputs... Are the gain and trim at the top of those channels independent from the gain and trim for the main L-R outs? Thanks again for all the help and cheers.
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Q1 in the default show output 12 is matrix 2 out , so you have to change the routing to aux 12
Q2 the gain and trim (and eq comp and gain if not set to pre dsp) are global you can get to them from aux view but they are global :)
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Q1 in the default show output 12 is matrix 2 out , so you have to change the routing to aux 12
Q2 the gain and trim (and eq comp and gain if not set to pre dsp) are global you can get to them from aux view but they are global :)
Ah, thank you. At this point, I haven't even begun to try and figure out or understand what the Matrix is or does... Obviously, I have much, much more to learn and absorb with Master Fader.
I also think I am using the sub mix group incorrectly. I assigned all the backing vocal mics to sub 1 in order to raise or lower them all in balance once I had the levels all set, but raising or lowering the gain on the sub 1 mixer didn't seem to have any effect on the volume levels at all. So, there's something else I need to figure out. BTW, I just want to thank everyone again who has been pitching in with answers and advice. It has been a huge help to me this week. Your time and talents are greatly appreciated. Cheers.
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Hi JMc,
For using subgroups:
Go to each vocal channel you want in your vocal subgroup.
UN-CHECK each channel from the LR Main mix(make it white instead of gray), and then CHECK each of them in the subgroup you want to use(gray instead of white).
By default, all of the subgroups are assigned to the LR Main mix, but you can check to make sure.
Good health, Weogo
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For using subgroups:
Go to each vocal channel you want in your vocal subgroup.
UN-CHECK each channel from the LR Main mix(make it white instead of gray), and then CHECK each of them in the subgroup you want to use(gray instead of white).
AHHHH. Now I understand. Thank you very much! ;) It doesn't appear that the individual faders for the channel assigned to the sub move up and down with the submix level... Should I keep the submix set at unity gain as a starting point?
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Hi JMc,
Yes, unity is the place to start.
In analog world, if you send a whole bunch of hot signals to a Group it can get up to clipping level and you back it off a bit.
I think clipping a group is still possible in digi world?
Thanks and good health, Weogo
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I have noticed that when using post fader in an Aux, the channel gain should be at least at unity. (0 db if you can read that.) I've taken to running the Aux faders the whole way up for post fader. Just an observation.
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I have noticed that when using post fader in an Aux, the channel gain should be at least at unity. (0 db if you can read that.) I've taken to running the Aux faders the whole way up for post fader. Just an observation.
That depends on where your channelfaders are :)
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New question. What's the quickest, easiest way to send all the input signals to the aux buss, without sending anything out through the L-R mains. I've had a request by a sub musician who wants to be able to set his monitor levels in his assigned AUX output, but without putting anything through the mains except for maybe the intermission music. What's the easiest way to do this?
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You could deselect all channels, except the intermission music channels, from the Main outputs. You would do this in the routing screen of each channel.
It must be a pretty boring show for the audience. ;)
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You could deselect all channels, except the intermission music channels, from the Main outputs. You would do this in the routing screen of each channel.
Ugh, that's too much hassle. Unless there is an easier way than accessing each channel individually, I'm going to tell the guy to just deal with it and adjust his monitors like the rest of us.
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It would be one channel at a time. But it still wouldn't take more than a minute. Go into the routing screen of channel 1, deselect Main LR, then swipe left to channel 2, and so on.
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Mute the mains while he is setting up his mix
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Mute the mains while he is setting up his mix
Of course, that is so obvious that I feel embarrassed having even asked the question. Thank you. That makes perfect sense. The only thing that doesn't make any sense to me is how he intends on setting up his monitor without the full band cranking together with the back line amps going, all the vocal mics, etc. Oh well.