Unofficial Mackie User Forums > DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers
Aux sends for foldbacks - pre or post EQ/dsp
stevegarris:
--- Quote from: WK154 on January 07, 2014, 04:25:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: Wynnd on January 07, 2014, 11:11:40 AM ---I was thinking about this and if you set the EQ for the FOH it will be wrong for the monitor. Unless you've already compensated for both speaker sets with the 32 band EQ. Prep work really helps.
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I think you will find this explanation on eq's quite clear about the role of channel vs. FOH mix. Dave Rat is the FOH/MON engineer for the Red Hot Chilly Peppers and others.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU9BmupC62c
Setup order is important. Channels first house second then tweaks. It's important that you take note of where the tools are for the adjustments and can you substitute your ears on stage as opposed to headphone isolation and your ears. Ultimately the talent should be satisfied with the settings. You can also not determine the amount of stage bleed into a mic by iPad and ears for repositioning mics. The iPad/ear combo mobility is great at checking audience sound not so good for other things.
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Excellent video, which explains my method perfectly!
One major downside to the DL, is that I don't put the headphones on as often as I used to.
abzurd:
FWIW, these points also call out the way Mackie implemented the recording feature is flawed. I'm pretty sure the recording is post Main EQ so you're recording any compensation done to the room. Between that, and the fact the FOH mix is seldom a good recording mix, the chances of getting a good sounding and properly mixed recording are pretty slim. That's why if I'm trying to get something half way decent I'll run the mains out of an aux and use the main buss mixed differently with the eq bypassed.
Wynnd:
Liked the video too. It's not exactly my approach but they are very close to each other. I start with a flat system response. (EQ as necessary to get there. I usually use a DriveRack PX or PA for system EQ and anti-feedback.) I have the channel EQs flat with a HPF and rarely change them. I do have a couple of mics that have so much roll off on the high end, that they aren't useable without some channel EQ making up for that flaw in them. Anyway, looking at my MixWiz you'll find that most of the channel EQs are at the 12 O'clock position. On my drummer's boards, the channel EQs are attempting to make up for a system that has never been flat and they are all over the place. (And they don't even look similar channel to channel. The mics aren't that different.)
WK154:
--- Quote from: abzurd on January 07, 2014, 09:09:24 PM ---FWIW, these points also call out the way Mackie implemented the recording feature is flawed. I'm pretty sure the recording is post Main EQ so you're recording any compensation done to the room. Between that, and the fact the FOH mix is seldom a good recording mix, the chances of getting a good sounding and properly mixed recording are pretty slim. That's why if I'm trying to get something half way decent I'll run the mains out of an aux and use the main buss mixed differently with the eq bypassed.
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Agreed and it's even worst than that. I think the whole recording thing was an afterthought. Since the DL can't record all channels for a post mix-down and only two channels are recorded they certainly shouldn't be taken off the L/R bus. Use a stereo aux bus so that you can at least get a reasonable spacial stereo recording using 2 mics just for that. These don't belong in the FOH or monitor mix, no processing just the right level. You'll get the best idea of how you sound to the audience with this and have a chance to correct what needs to be corrected. :) The iPad level meter should also be functional so you don't record blind as you do now. This approach also get you a second recording path to whatever you hook to the two aux's or at least a monitoring station (headphone amp and headphone). This is all based on the desire to record using the iPad. I don't waste my time with this it's just not worth the aggravation. I use a separate recording setup and even think you'll be ahead of the game using a Zoom H2 or similar recorder.
Fluddman:
--- Quote from: Wynnd on January 07, 2014, 11:11:40 AM ---I was thinking about this and if you set the EQ for the FOH it will be wrong for the monitor. Unless you've already compensated for both speaker sets with the 32 band EQ. Prep work really helps.
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Some interesting discussion to date but I think we are drifting off the topic.
Wynn,
I typically do compensate for the FOH and each foldback send using the GEQ. After doing so, I've started to try the aux sends for the foldbacks in both the pre and post EQ/dsp positions. Often the post EQ/dsp positions sounds better than the pre (nicer more natural sound). Don't ask me why this is, as my channel EQ is typically the hpf set at around 110 Hz and fairly flat from there up plus a very gentle compressor setting.
I was eagerly awaiting the last update so I could have pre EQ/dsp aux sends but it seems it was not as critical as I thought. I still like have the option and will always go 'pre' for bands that want really loud foldbacks or if I need heaps of compression to tame a wild vocalist.
I know some folk here always use 'post' for their aux sends to foldbacks and that seems to make a lot of sense if you are not having to deal with feedback prevention.
In the digital world, I guess it wouldn't be all that hard to add additional channel Eq for each of the aux sends - probably overkill but it sure would be useful for nice monitor mixes. Also would be nice to have the option of using parametric or the GEQ on the aux sends. HPF in particular would be nice to have on each aux send.
Cheers
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