Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Dtg77 on April 14, 2013, 11:58:09 AM
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I called it a cheap toy before, it may not be cheap but it is nothing more than a toy.
I am going back to my mix wizard desk. The 1608 crashed last night before the gig and had my heart in my mouth. I have given it every chance I can and I have a list of things that need changed on it which is more or less the same as everyone's list but mackie just don't give a shit.
I was at musikmesse in frankfurt this week and spent time with the new Allen and Heath desk .... It is streets ahead of this. Loads of reps there to talk you through it and spend time with you. The mackie stand was a different story. The chap I got talking to hadn't a clue, I ask to hear the new dl speakers and he eventually put his iPod through them at a really low volume and said what do you think great eh!!
I got the impression they just do t give a fvck same impression I got from the forum !
Mackie here's an idea just in case you missed it before ..... Move the poxy mute buttons
My desk is going for sale with the rack mount and original box if anyone is looking for a cheap toy mixer
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Was it the iPad that crashed, or the DL itself?
I'll probably buy a QU16 too but it'll be more like £1k more expensive. Looks good though, I like A&H gear.
Seriously though, didn't you try it out before you bought it??
Might have a buyer for you btw, you're in the UK aren't you?
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I play keys with dtg77. We have given the dl every opportunity to prove itself. We have even gone to the extent of having 2 different engineers trying to sort our problems with limited and fleeting success. The time has come to sell this toy. Bring on the A&H. Oh yea, can it really be that hard to, as my friend so beautifully put it, "move the proxy mute button"? Surely not.
Ps. We live on the west coast of Ireland. A town called sligo.
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Sorry to hear that you are having so many issues. I myself have mixed over 50 shows with this unit with no issues. My Mix Wiz and outboard gear have not been used once since purchasing the DL back in October. It don't understand your comment about it being a toy. If you know what you are doing it is capable of producing great results. Ask more questions, give it more time before you pull the plug. There are people here that will be more than willing to help.
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The iPad was docked I opened master fader app it was fine for a minute then stopped responding and I had to turn it off to reset it. I don't know or care weather it was the pad or the unit as neither can work without the other.
By toy I mean it's not a professional piece of equipment.
Another major issue is the feed back in the monitors, Same amps same speakers same leads as our mix wizard and I have been fighting feed back since I got it.
Btw the Mensa candidate at the mackie stand in frankfurt said he thought it might be an eq issue..... Must tell our sound guys that one, did I mention the lack of interest they had on the stand
We didn't get to try it out first as new gear like this in ireland would never be stocked and you just have to take a chance.
The new a&h will work without an iPad, 16 chanel recording, mute buttons not put in as an after thought,a 4 band eq system with feb back controllers. In terms of build quality looks and feels like a professional desk.
Anyway if you do have someone looking for a second mackie send them my way
Cheers
D
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How is it not a professional piece of equipment? I know many professionals that are using this mixer. This is what I do for a day job, not a hobby. Are you aware that the dynamics are pre Aux, and have to take this into account when using the compressor?
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This is also my job, we do in and around 100-120 shows a year.
But no more with this piece of kit. I was taken by the glossy pics and the whole iPad thing but it is by far the cheapest piece of gear on our stage. In fairness you get what you pay for and we should be looking at a presonus to be honest
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Mind you I was really impressed by the new A&h desk
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DTG77-
Sorry to hear that your not happy with your DL. Did it only crash that one time and are you mostly having a MON issue? Are you using compression? If so check this out, http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=206.0
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This is also my job, we do in and around 100-120 shows a year.
But no more with this piece of kit. I was taken by the glossy pics and the whole iPad thing but it is by far the cheapest piece of gear on our stage. In fairness you get what you pay for and we should be looking at a presonus to be honest
I have two Presonus SLs, I'd hold out for the Qu. I plan to buy one. I had a few probs with multi recording on my first SL and never had the confidence to use it much after that for live recording. I know software & firmware updates have improved them but you still have to lug a laptop etc. Other than that they've been rock solid for me.
I like the idea of multi recording via USB though. It'll give me an extra sweetener for hire customers. The SL 16.4.2 is £1650 (I paid £1950 in 2009) so for an extra £300 I'd wait. Reasound in Tyrone will have them in stock at the end of May, 2 hours up the road for you. How much for your DL btw?
Ps. I had a WZ3 immediately before my first SL. It took a while but I was/am very happy with the sound of it in comparison. A bit like the DL, it's only last weekend that I was getting what I wanted from it sound wise and got used with it's way of working. For smaller gigs I was using my SL16.0.2 for a month or so as I missed real knobs & faders. After the 1.4 update I pulled it out again and it started to fall into place for me. It has a niche, you know how small some of our gigs can be here on our sunny island;)
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Gav here again. It did indeed only crash once but in our corporate game that's already once too much. Don't know much about the corporate game in other countries but in Ireland you are only as good as your Last show. Reputation is everything and we have a good one. Last night we had that eureka moment of what happens if this unit doesn't boot again..... Mid gig. With some many variables at so many different occasions the least one can expect from your mixer is reliability. In our set up we have employed many forms of redundancy with the exception of the dl going down. We do still have .our mix wizard in the truck but that even demonstrates the lack of faith we have in this unit. We will be upgrading very soon.
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I have done over 100 shows with the Mackie and zero, yes zero, crashes. I think your problem is you. Too much feedback? Figure out how to ring it out. I think you are just here to bash the dl1608. And omg get over the damn mute button thing. There are a lot more important issues. I have never bashed the dl. I have however bashed on Mackie and because of that I am waiting, patiently, to replace the dl with the x32 rack. You must be really shitty at mixing sound, or just really here to bash on the dl, which is also pretty shitty.
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Or maybe 100 shows in and it's meets your low expectations or talent ?? Seriously dude you don't want to get I to a slagging match here ;)
Buy the x32 disposable audio sound like its right up your alley ;)
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Just to clarify guys, was it the iPad app or the actual DL hardware that went down?
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Sorry dude, I diddnt make that clear. I don't know, the iPad was docked when it went down and we couldn't do anything untill it rebooted. My point is weather it was the pad or the desk it made no difference as one doesn't work without the other.
We did still have a second iPad going but that Gav 's for doing monitors mix and I don't know if his was able to control anything. I will ask him tomorrow.
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I have done over 100 shows with the Mackie and zero, yes zero, crashes. I think your problem is you. Too much feedback? Figure out how to ring it out. I think you are just here to bash the dl1608. And omg get over the damn mute button thing. There are a lot more important issues. I have never bashed the dl. I have however bashed on Mackie and because of that I am waiting, patiently, to replace the dl with the x32 rack. You must be really shitty at mixing sound, or just really here to bash on the dl, which is also pretty shitty.
Well I haven't yet done a single show with the DL1608, so I can't say anything yet. But this is definitely not a toy. However, that said, think that Dtg77 is speaking out of sheer frustration and so maybe he is flying off the handle a little? You know what? I've been there and so have most people. It doesn't matter if a billion people have perfect experiences with a mixer or other piece of equipment. All it takes is for ME to have that one horrible show and WHAMMO the unit sucks! lol is it fair? Perhaps not, but like I have said, we've all been there.
On the subject of feedback, I am having an issue maybe you guys can answer for me. I hooked up my brand new PA: JBL PRX612m tops over PRX618XLF subs and an extra ELX112p monitor, all hooked up to one vocal mic just as a test. Now whenever I turned up the system volume or the aux volume I am getting tons of feedback all over the sonic spectrum! I don't ever remember having this much FB with my old JBL MR835/MR805 system powered by an old Crown Powerbase 2 and a Folio Rack Pack.
I am REALLY HOPING that the reason I was getting all this feedback was because I was in a basement with very low ceilings. But....wowser! As for ringing out the system, I am having a helluva time getting used to the touch screen graphic EQ. Even double sized I am having a lot of trouble engaging the EQ fader blips sometimes. I have to get used to it, I guess, and I REALLY HOPE that my new system doesn't start screaming and whining at me at my next gig where I wil be using all this gear for the first time lol.
I can tell that for me at least, ringing out a system on the iPad is NOT going to be easy! Is this a problem endemic to the 1608, lots of feedback I mean?
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Where are your gains set to on your speakers and vocal mic inputs? Are you peaking around 0 db on the meters? For only the weakest vocals will I go much past 12 o'clock on the input trims.
I normally run a combo of 6-10 k12's, PRX 612's, SRX 712's for monitors. Very rarely if ever have to ring out and can peel the skin off ones face with volume. So no it's not a DL issue.
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Where are your gains set to on your speakers and vocal mic inputs? Are you peaking around 0 db on the meters? For only the weakest vocals will I go much past 12 o'clock on the input trims.
I will take a look at that next time I boot it up, but I can tell you that the I never clipped the input trims.
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Keep an eye on your input meters. The only inputs that break into the yellow maybe 1db on peaks is a kick drum or snare hit. I try to keep the vocals, so even an unexpected primordial scream reaches 0db. Keep it in the green!
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Keep an eye on your input meters. The only inputs that break into the yellow maybe 1db on peaks is a kick drum or snare hit. I try to keep the vocals, so even an unexpected primordial scream reaches 0db. Keep it in the green!
I have posted many vids on my Y tube page showing the use of the DL in a live band situation. At some point in each vid I take a shot of the I Pad. You will notice that most if not all channels stay in the green.
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+1 I will watch a shitload of your vids tomorrow. I need aaaaaaall the help I can get.
Meanwhile, I have to learn how to identify frequencies by ear. My problem is I hear some FB and nine times out of ten I fumble around trying to "find" the offending band. I am a musician, not a sound man, so I have a lot to learn. lol
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I see too often, people cranking input gains resulting in a cumulative mess of noise. They then proceed to hack the hell out of the monitors with EQ. I can't even remember the last time I used a graphic on my monitor mixes. Good gain structure is where you want to start.
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Start with the EQ on the vocal mics flat and the compression off.
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Meanwhile, I have to learn how to identify frequencies by ear.
Get yourself an RTA app that you can run on your iPad. There are a couple of good free ones.
I like AKLite. It has a nice FFT that shows the value of the loudest frequency. It doesnt have enough low frequency resolution to be useful for EQ'ing a room but there is more than enough mid and high resolution to be useful for ringing monitors and tamping down hot spots in mics. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/aklite/id423519680
The JL audio RTA is also nice. It has a regular RTA display and is a bit more accurate than AKLite for low frequencies.
https://itunes.apple.com/ke/app/jl-audio-tools/id388648626
Both of these apps will use the internal mic on the iPad, or an iPhone if you have one. You can also get an attenuator cable so that you can run the solo out of your DL into the mic input if the iPhone/iPad. This is very useful in a live situation when you can hear something starting to ring, but not sure what input it is on. http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-iphone-mic42-a22.htm
I havent found the DL board to cause any feedback issues, although it took me a while to figure out how to get to the solo bus (which is only on the phones out with the DL, hence the attenuator).
When getting new monitors or mains components, I find its helpful to run pink noise to help set the EQ. For the monitors, I usually start by getting everything flat, then roll the low end for everyone but the drummer, and bump the 1-2K a little for the vocal mons. That gives you a decent starting point before you start ringing out for the mics. You only need to do this once or if you replace a driver. For mains, the pink noise will help you make sure that your crossover settings are right for your amps and boxes (only need to do this when you change a component), and identify room resonances (which is useful any time you are in a new room). Then play some recorded music that you know well, to make final EQ settings, so that everything sounds good in the room and vocals sound good in the monitors.
I too found the DL incredibly frustrating at first. Its half mixer and half computer, which takes some getting used to. The first weekend I wanted to smash it. Fortunately, I had a couple of weeks before I needed to use it live. Now there are a lot of things that I wish Mackie would change but no way would I want to go back to my old board and snake and 100lb outboard rack.
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Jlb
Not sure what your videos are about,you should post a link to them. If they are useful RR may want to add them to this forum.....
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To the op: You had 2 iPads going and one crashed but you didn't bother checking the other one right away. Hmmm? And then you decided to log in here to bash the dl? I call shenanigans.
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Jlb , what's your you tube page ?
Frustration, yes but not from just one gig.
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I've done several shows since i've bought the DL1608 last year... for me it was a giant leap!
very good, very stable... 4 stars! Idon't put on the fifth star just because it lacks the app updates that we all want, nevertheless it is a very good mixer!!!
Never had let me down, and i guess the crash was on your iPad and not the mixer... the good thing is that even if your iPad crashes the mixer still works, obviously with the channel selection that you had.
For me... ok!
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Meanwhile, I have to learn how to identify frequencies by ear.
Get yourself an RTA app that you can run on your iPad. There are a couple of good free ones.
I will definitely investigate this, but I have a question: Wouldn't I be better served getting this app on my android phone instead? Because the iPad doesn't easily multitask, and if I get feedback and have to start toggling between the RTA app and the Master Fader app, won't it take me way longer to find, identify, and cut the offending frequencies than if I have Master Fader opened on my iPad in the room we are playing in and the RTA app on my phone?
I will definitely try your other suggestions too, thanks!
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Robbo I truly can't wait to dump this pos board. But it still works great. Just no longer a fan of the company or the lack of development they are putting into updates. Although I did say pos board, I did state that pos was referring more to the company. Again please, please, please keep defending this board and company. I hope you keep it for years. One day you will realize it has serious limitations. But then, again, please keep it and be left in the shadows of the board around it.
Saying it has limitations is not bashing it. It's just informative to those who may want to know what limitations it has. The limitations of this board are also company based issues. There was not much forward thinking involved. There are basic things the dl will never be able to do that most competitors can. The dsp inside the board is not going to be able to handle the user requests that they are getting. If I developed a board, knowing how fast things evolve, and knowing people always want more, I would put a dsp chip in 10x bigger than needed. Or more. This way I would be able to add features to future proof the board.
If mackie was a forward thinking company then the 802 would not exist. What kind of conversations took place to come up with that idea? Pure friken genius. "Hey guys, how about we make a great new product by just taking what we already have and remove 8 inputs and 2 outputs! And let's reduce the price by only a little bit." I am so glad that this great company took such a huge leap forward...um...backwards. How many people have asked mackie for a larger dl? Answer: a lot. On mackies own web site, and in the dls owner manual, they describe how to use two dls to get 24 channels. (That was stretching it mackie). Obviously they knew going into things people wanted a bigger board. So the genius development team decided a smaller board was the way to go.
Oh please, oh please, oh please behringer hurry up. I need that x32 rack. Everything I need and more is inside there. Mackie has taught me quickly what I really need, and you have everything I/we have been asking them for. Thank you so much for reading their forums. I am glad that almost every major issue people have with the dl, and almost every feature request that has been made, you have addressed. Way to go!
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Hey Jerry,
Not defending the board, just thought you were harsh on the poster and just keeping you honest ;)
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Wouldn't I be better served getting this app on my android phone instead?
Yes - If you have an android phone (or an iPhone), its better to put the RTA on that, for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
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Here is a link to my page. Videos using the DL are labeled. Some are better than others.
http://www.youtube.com/user/12betts
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I called it a cheap toy before, it may not be cheap but it is nothing more than a toy.
I am going back to my mix wizard desk. The 1608 crashed last night before the gig and had my heart in my mouth. I have given it every chance I can and I have a list of things that need changed on it which is more or less the same as everyone's list but mackie just don't give a shit.
Good luck with what ever gear you end up with.. It is my experience that some people just aren't cut out to be on the cutting edge. Perhaps in your case, analog is better!
On the other hand, I just did another show Saturday night with my DL and it performed perfectly and the sound was incredibly clear even with the speakers behind us flying on poles about 7 feet up above the subs. This was my first outing running 1.4 and I have to agree with many others here that the new "vintage" eq sounds so nice and sweet.
Ben, if you are lurking about here, once again.... bravo to you and your crew!
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:facepalm: Thanks RR.
My brain is wasting. Last weekend I did a show using a AH GL 2400. Got everything hooked up so I thought. Started to do a line check. Nothing. Checked all me connections for about 15 minutes. Band waiting patiently on stage. Come back to the board and see that none of my inputs are connected. :facepalm:
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It takes me to my page. Strange. Try this. Sorry. :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGXjg7npi78
Enjoyed your music, all in control there too :thu: :)
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:facepalm: Thanks RR.
My brain is wasting. Last weekend I did a show using a AH GL 2400. Got everything hooked up so I thought. Started to do a line check. Nothing. Checked all me connections for about 15 minutes. Band waiting patiently on stage. Come back to the board and see that none of my inputs are connected. :facepalm:
Lol, classic!
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I called it a cheap toy before, it may not be cheap but it is nothing more than a toy.
I am going back to my mix wizard desk. The 1608 crashed last night before the gig and had my heart in my mouth. I have given it every chance I can and I have a list of things that need changed on it which is more or less the same as everyone's list but mackie just don't give a shit.
Good luck with what ever gear you end up with.. It is my experience that some people just aren't cut out to be on the cutting edge. Perhaps in your case, analog is better!
On the other hand, I just did another show Saturday night with my DL and it performed perfectly and the sound was incredibly clear even with the speakers behind us flying on poles about 7 feet up above the subs. This was my first outing running 1.4 and I have to agree with many others here that the new "vintage" eq sounds so nice and sweet.
Ben, if you are lurking about here, once again.... bravo to you and your crew!
In my experience that some people believe in the emperors new clothes. Yes bravo to Ben and crew for the worst customer service in the world.
Having tried both the x32 and the qu16 they are streets ahead of the mackie in terms of "cutting edge "
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My brain is wasting. Last weekend I did a show using a AH GL 2400. Got everything hooked up so I thought. Started to do a line check. Nothing. Checked all me connections for about 15 minutes. Band waiting patiently on stage. Come back to the board and see that none of my inputs are connected. :facepalm:
Thought it was supposed to be a wireless mixer? ;)
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Having tried both the x32 and the qu16 they are streets ahead of the mackie in terms of "cutting edge "
And twice the price, and how many times bigger? In my case I wanted small and 100% controllable via a tablet. I had zero desire for "real" controls. While the iX16 or X32 Rack might suit me better I'll have had my DL1608 for a year before those ship. Anything "bleeding edge" you buy these days is going to be outdone in a year. You can wait forever for the next great thing or make do with what's available today. Rumor from Germany is that Mackie is even going to give me my master FX mute (via mute groups) so I'm uber happy :D .
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My brain is wasting. Last weekend I did a show using a AH GL 2400. Got everything hooked up so I thought. Started to do a line check. Nothing. Checked all me connections for about 15 minutes. Band waiting patiently on stage. Come back to the board and see that none of my inputs are connected. :facepalm:
Thought it was supposed to be a wireless mixer? ;)
Lol! At least I remembered to run a snake. :)
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I'm uber happy :D .
I'm with you RR!
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And twice the price
Actually that's about THREE TIMES the price for the X32. lol Just saying
Not putting down the X32. I am probably going to buy that (or the StudioLive) as my main mixer and use the DL1608 as the backup mixer for the band AND for the main mixer for my acoustic duo because lol who the hell wants a 32 channe;l desk for a duo? :lol:
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If mackie was a forward thinking company then the 802 would not exist. What kind of conversations took place to come up with that idea? Pure friken genius. "Hey guys, how about we make a great new product by just taking what we already have and remove 8 inputs and 2 outputs! And let's reduce the price by only a little bit." I am so glad that this great company took such a huge leap forward...um...backwards. How many people have asked mackie for a larger dl? Answer: a lot. On mackies own web site, and in the dls owner manual, they describe how to use two dls to get 24 channels. (That was stretching it mackie). Obviously they knew going into things people wanted a bigger board. So the genius development team decided a smaller board was the way to go.
Yep mackie did it almost as i once requested only part the did 'forget' the expancian rack that i also did request
A small board for small band and if needed more Channels plug in 2 or 3 stagesracks with 8 in and 4 out'
Connected with a cat cable
:)
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If mackie was a forward thinking company then the 802 would not exist.
On the other hand, if you can't master a technological marvel like the 802, you shouldn't even be looking at a DL1608, let alone chatting about it" :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's not directed at you Jerry, just a general observation based on the context of this thread.
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Do you mean the 806?
Did a small outdoor gig yesterday, two singer/guitarists and two guitar duo's on the bandstand, beatboxers, choirs, dance troops and a 5 piece band on the 'main' stage. We ran two rigs with two DL1608's (just 'cos we had two available BTW, could have done it with just one but WTH....). Not a hitch, loads of complements on the sound and the slickness of the operation, and loads of interest in the DL/iPad mixing paradigm.
8)
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Having tried both the x32 and the qu16 they are streets ahead of the mackie in terms of "cutting edge "
And twice the price, and how many times bigger? In my case I wanted small and 100% controllable via a tablet. I had zero desire for "real" controls. While the iX16 or X32 Rack might suit me better I'll have had my DL1608 for a year before those ship. Anything "bleeding edge" you buy these days is going to be outdone in a year. You can wait forever for the next great thing or make do with what's available today. Rumor from Germany is that Mackie is even going to give me my master FX mute (via mute groups) so I'm uber happy :D .
This.
The DL1608 is definitely NOT a toy.
That said, mine will be relegated to "backup mixer" status once the x32 Rack ships, mostly because I dont have much confidence in the Mackie developers.
I also reckon Mackie's customer relations are very poor. Closing the forums was cowardly - no room for cowards in live sound!
Sean
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Hey Sean,
If my experience with Behringer is anything to go by, you may need that "backup mixer" more than you think. ;)
Having said that, I haven't bought anything they've made in quite a few years, they may be different after their recent acquisitions.
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Hey Sean,
If my experience with Behringer is anything to go by, you may need that "backup mixer" more than you think. ;)
Having said that, I haven't bought anything they've made in quite a few years, they may be different after their recent acquisitions.
Behringer has changed, in A Big Way. Not only as a result of the acquisitions, but also a major leap forward in custom relations and service.
By comparison, Mackie is retreating into its shell.