Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Jkowtko on October 15, 2014, 11:26:17 PM
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Just wondering what peoples' preferences will be between these two mixers. They are very different ... the X32 giving you a lot more control on the front surface. The DL32R looks more like a patch panel.
Will anyone purchase a DL32R for FOH? Or even club bands?
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I've looked at the X32 Rack before but it has the ability for both PC & iPad control plus the ability to act as snake for an X32.
The DL32R has some nice improvements, obviously the recallable preamps and multi-track capability is a really nice thing that has been sorely missing from the 1608 but the X32 Rack also has the ability for a networked PC to control in the event of an iPad failure, does the DL32R have that ability? I didn't notice it if it does have it... that's a nice safety net to have.
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I have to say that I'm partial to the clean look of the X32 rack. But major I/O is out the back which, depending on where it's used and your preferences, can be good or bad. I/O out front like the DL32 means never having to lean over the back to get at any cables, especially when you can't really always get to the back. Out front is convenient and out back is tidy etc.etc. I know we can't have our cake and eat it too. Would be nice to have the best of both worlds though.
One point that I noted (plus a whole bunch of others of course): X32 rack has only 16 XLR inputs. DL32 has 32 XLR inputs. (I know, Captain Obvious here) Gonna have to sit down and do in depth comparison features of both. They are similar and different in good ways from what I've seen so far. It's up to individual tastes and preferences I guess.
Since the good experience with my pseudo owned (school's) DL1608, I'm kinda leaning towards the look and premise of the DL32 and would hope performance and reliability are on par with theirs (Mackie's) and our expectations. I'm happy with the 1608. I don't think I could convince the school to upgrade anytime soon. ;) Method in my madness or madness in my method? >:D
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I'm convinced that Apple needs to build a much larger ipad for a better control surface. (And I have some Apple stock that I bought for $20 a share. (Split 14 to 1 over the years.)) That said, My next laptop has to have a touch screen. My current MacBook Pro has all sorts of finger prints on the screen where I tried to use the non-existant touch screen.
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And that's before you throw the PreSonus rack into the mix... three-way shoot out required :-)
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Hello - I'm known as "Elantric" at most places ( Vguitarforums, Harmony-Central - and "stevekc" at Line-6 forums - I already recognize a few names here in my search for the most active Mackie User Forum today.
Back to the topic, I've been in the market for a month reviewing modern live mixers with modern multi Ipad monitor control for separate monitor mixes, but my focus has been locating a mixer that offers direct to USB drive multi-track recording of shows / rehearsals - without a computer.
I've looking deeply at StageScape M20D ( not enough inputs, too many cartoons) the X32Rack ( but that one will not record without a PC/Mac), flat rejected the Presonus offerings because my 2012 Presonus AudioBox 1818VSL is a crackling/sputtering P.O.S. right out of the box.
24 hours ago i was sold on the QSC Touchmix16 - which might still be the best fit for my needs/goals - then I saw the announcement today of the new Mackie DL32R and now I'm reconsidering and focused on learning all I can. It looks like a mixer / audio interface I can use for several years with its rich featureset - and in my searching, often folks highlight the Ipad Mackie Master Fader app as the best of the bunch - and already I see its more intuitive for my brain compared to the others ive tried. ( QSC Touchmix, Presonus )
and the reports are the Mackie DL boards have decent audio perfomance and headroom / dynamic range -although I do read reports of a "too phasy" final output EQ stage.
Anyway, if I postpone my iPhone 6 Plus upgrade another month ;) the DL32R seems like it might suit my needs a while longer than the competition, as it not only works as a standalone life gig multitrack recorder / mixer - but also doubles as a 32 in / 32 out Audio interface for my 2012 Macbook Pro, and reviewing the DL32R block diagram and I/O count with creative routing I could conceivably employ my older third party external hardware FX (remember those?) and it also advertised to allow incorporation of PC/Mac hosted VSTi FXs at live shows - but it is a 33 pound box that needs fans running and a road case - while the QSC Touchmix16 that 100 meets my current needs with its softcase wont scuff the interior of my vehicle ;), and hey do I really need 32 inputs? (rather like asking do I need another guitar )
But I'm very impressed and will probably pull the trigger for the DL32R - assuming a solid robust drop free connection to an Ipad Air (still running IOS 7) is possible
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2872014/1413403776_1742659022_D32R.PNG)
(http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Mackie/DL32R/images/Master-Fader-3-IO-Patch.jpg)
(http://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Mackie/DL32R/images/Master-Fader-3-Overview.jpg)
#Invalid YouTube Link#
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At the risk of sounding like a fan boy I will attempt to answer the OP question as objectively as possible.
I can only speak for myself with an answer that I will not be purchasing a DL32R anytime soon or perhaps ever unless had for $_00.00 secondhand in the distant future. I`ve already made a purchase and acquisition of an X32Rack two weeks ago. An easy decision from my perspective based on good measure of the the time had with the obvious 3 company`s, Mack.., Behr....., and Pres.... currently available digital mixers over the past two years of ownership & end user experience.
Aside from my own conclusion I suggest to do the math. We of course are comparing apples to apples now, racks only. Using pricing from Sweet......;
X32R / $1,200 AND S16 / $900 = $2,100
RM32AI / $2,000
DL32R / $2,000
X32R / S16 combo additional $100 out of pocket nets full 16 xlr assignable, 6 1/4 inch, stereo monitor outs. Dedicated talkback input/bus, 6 1/4 inch aux inputs.
Dual AES50 ports, ULTRANET. Front panel Hi-res color TFT screen and controls that provide emergency mix capability. 32x 32 USB interface recording capable since version -.101 , with your fave DAW (Reaper). Effects and graphic EQ`s fully assignable. And did I mention the the Effects. Real Verbs !!! And yes I do mean that as a Dis to BOTH the others! Network interfacing options within the X-Family of products.
And then there is the official software remote UI offerings. IOS, PC, MAC and Android. And the unofficial MixStation ( slam dunk ! ).
3 Year Warranty (read the fine print and register within 30 days). Responsive tech support on official manufacturers and various forums. Firmware/software updates/upgrades that have generally been very well received.
After consideration of this comparison, it would seem to me that the possible primary reason(s) for NOT going the Xroute would be the preference of UI, sound, lack of need for computer for recording, or need for 64 mix, 52x34 record with two RM32AI.
Now the aforementioned pricing is for reference. I purchased on card new in box, out the door, CA USA for under $1K. At that price one can buy TWO X-Racks TODAY for LESS than the other PRE-ORDER pricing.
I do hope to eventually PLAY with and LISTEN to the others in time. Meanwhile I expect to be fully satisfied with the X-Rack this weekend. And the next. And next month. And next year.
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I'm convinced that Apple needs to build a much larger ipad for a better control surface. (And I have some Apple stock that I bought for $20 a share. (Split 14 to 1 over the years.)) That said, My next laptop has to have a touch screen. My current MacBook Pro has all sorts of finger prints on the screen where I tried to use the non-existant touch screen.
And who knows what may be unveiled in Cupertino in a few hours......
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To the previous posters:
There will be computer control of the DL32r, that's what the usb b is for on the back - output 32x32 didn't Beno say?
"If the iPad dies" surely you'll have even an iPhone handy? What if the x32 rack dies (more likely scenario) what then?
The multi recording to an onboard HDD is the x32 rack killer alone for me.
Plus it doesn't need the three year warranty gimmick to try and get people to trust it's manufacturer.
It looks solid and workmanlike. The new MF looks great.
In the real world I would have much more confidence in the dl32r than I'd ever have in an x32 rack.
My previous experiences with Behringer have been bad, Presonus more favourable.
My one and only Mackie purchase has been superb - the DL1608.
If it comes down just to the price, of course it's not going to be as cheap as a Behringer.
Yeah, I could get "x" number of x32 racks for the price of my current setup but I be happier with buying something I trusted.
What use 8FX engines when it won't power up some night, at a gig, in the middle of nowhere, within the 3 year warranty?
Just my 2p worth :)
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Will anyone purchase a DL32R for FOH? Or even club bands?
OOops, failed to address this second and third question. Yes & yes. However I would think there would be very few instances of a full swap of rack format for desk at FOH as the preference for a familiar tactile interface is the norm.
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To the previous posters:
There will be computer control of the DL32r, that's what the usb b is for on the back - output 32x32 didn't Beno say?
"If the iPad dies" surely you'll have even an iPhone handy? What if the x32 rack dies (more likely scenario) what then?
The multi recording to an onboard HDD is the x32 rack killer alone for me.
Plus it doesn't need the three year warranty gimmick to try and get people to trust it's manufacturer.
It looks solid and workmanlike. The new MF looks great.
In the real world I would have much more confidence in the dl32r than I'd ever have in an x32 rack.
My previous experiences with Behringer have been bad, Presonus more favourable.
My one and only Mackie purchase has been superb - the DL1608.
If it comes down just to the price, of course it's not going to be as cheap as a Behringer.
Yeah, I could get "x" number of x32 racks for the price of my current setup but I be happier with buying something I trusted.
What use 8FX engines when it won't power up some night, at a gig, in the middle of nowhere, within the 3 year warranty?
Just my 2p worth :)
Well, depending on if you have yourself one `dem `der real old 2pencers you might have something of real value.
But when it comes to the topic at hand, in the real world poop happens. Such is reason for redundancy or back-up plans. Redundant Pads, Lappies, Routers, Wall-Warts, Cabling, DSP Wundaboxes, Powered FOH speaker are all at the ready for the unexpected , RIGHT ?
Besides, as stated, one can emergency mix from the X-Rack panel. Try that on the M or P.
Computer control and 32x32 recording, when? And will it be proprietary ala QSC Touchmix.
Personally I don`t perk up just cause `Beno' speaks. Ask yourself, how many on the payroll Mackoids other than Beno chime or check in to this or any other forum.
Warranty? 7 years on my Yamaha DSR`s and 6 years on QSC`s IMO translates to confidence for the consumer. Behr..... and Pres.... warranty and out of warranty service is in house one shop stop resulting in what I interpret as knowledge,experience and concern for quality control in service . Mackie is different as I have found due to my DEAD DL1608. Mackie DL out of warranty products go to New Jersey, while under warranty head up to Woodinville presumably just swapped out. What might that tell you I ask?
MF is wonderful. I have acknowledged in another thread the stand out allure and simplicity of MF and would very well understand anyone`s decision based on the UI. Very similar to the long lived by adage borne out of the very early days of consumer computer digital audio software. Choose the software and the platform will follow.
8,4, or 2 effects. The X has the real deal and I am willing to put your 2Pence to my nickel that that nothing much has improved in the DL32R/ MF 3. That is a deal killer for me.
Natural human reaction for many peeps, once bitten , twice shy.
Ok, I will ask. What is your setup?
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Hey James,
My 2p's are just the regular ones in circulation here in the UK. ;)
I can see the points you are making, they will make X series buyers feel all warm and fuzzy.
Redundancy, backups and warranties are all great when you have them. Behr**ger gear has a hard earned reputation for being cheap and unreliable.
Because they're so cheap, lots have been sold, therefore lots of voices on the net are justifying their purchases - just like you. I'm not buying the hype ;)
My story is a familiar one, bought cheap Beh***ger gear out of necessity and budget over the years, and got what I deserved.
I'm not particularly wealthy but I would rather put my money in trusted brands, my main digital desk is an A&H. I'm very happy with my DL too.
I don't get a cold sweat every time I hit the power button on it or my DL1608. Perhaps for you, it's the opposite, since you had a "dead" DL1608.
No matter how good the x-range might seem to some people it doesn't shine to me.
I personally know of a very popular act here who has two x32 consoles 'cause one died mid gig.
I can't see the logic in that, I'd have bought something else at the earliest opportunity!
We'll all see different merits in our choices but I hope your new x32 rack goes well for you James.
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I have done a huge amount of reading about the X32 over the last year and I can count the "X32 failed" posts on the fingers of one hand compared to literally hundreds of post saying what a great desk it is. There are probably more X32s sold than all other digital desks put together (likely ten times more) yet the failure rate on my 'internet straw poll' is little different from other manufacturers products. If I could afford a GLD and stagebox I would buy one like a shot (I use one at work) but I can't so an X32 Compact is on the way. I will take a backup desk to gigs with me but I would if I had a GLD or Expression (or Digico etc TBH) 'cos stuff fails. It doesn't matter if the failure rate is 10% or .01%, if yours is the .01% one that goes TTU you still need a backup.
Fortunately I'm not in the position of having to pander to the badge obsessed classes and my clients aren't expecting me to turn up with an LS9 or Midas or WHY (Digico on a rider for a pub gig anyone?).
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Hey Sam,
My straw poll doesn't bode well lol!
I only know one real life x32 owner and his failed mid gig.
Horses for courses.
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He was the .01%er :lol:
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I won't be buying one, just curious, the reverbs on the dl range have had some absue on boards like this, mackie did not mention anything in the vids about new reverbs did they?
Kev
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We'll have to wait and see. The DL verb is usable, not the best, but far from the worst. I can live with it but then I'm not a fan of my mixes "swimming" in fx.
Maybe mf 3.0 will bring something new to the 1608 version.
They've answered a lot of the other user requests so maybe this will get a look too.
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I too only know one X32 owner and his has failed three times in a little over a year. I'm very happy with my DL, nearly two years now, lots of varied gigs, zero problems except the white noise one with ipad 3 which is no deal breaker for me. Incidentally no white noise problem with ipad mini with apple 30 pin to lightening connector as reported elsewhere.
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I occasional do work for a guy who runs an LS9 as his main desk and for smaller gigs had been using a DL1608 (can't recall if he still has it) and just purchased an X32Rack, which he is going to show me around next time I am up his way, when I am hoping to get a feel for whether I like it or not. I have faffed around with the interface and don't find it all that great, which spoils it for me since that is ultimately what you are working with as your primary control. Much of what attracts me to the DL32R is the simplicity, with a decent amount of processing to do the majority of what can reasonably be expected with it. If I did more big venue gigs I would be tempted by the Presonus and a nice big touch screen PC.
In terms of reliability, I have used a variety of gear over the years and whilst some of the behringer stuff has been of lower build quality I have not had any significant failures (compressors, EQs, feedback destroyers, crossovers, desks and speakers), likewise for the majority of the Mackie gear I have had, the only thing I have seen fail are the older powered speakers which have been overdriven and caused the amp to fail, so probably not relevant here. There are risks with a lot of gear and a lot of it comes down to how you handle (transport and store) it.
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My next laptop has to have a touch screen. My current MacBook Pro has all sorts of finger prints on the screen where I tried to use the non-existant touch screen.
;D Yes, much to my chagrin, I've been told once or twice at shows from crew, when I have both laptop (Windoze non touch) and iPads, that the stylus won't work on the laptop. And there are some finger prints on it. :o
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He was the .01%er :lol:
Sam good choice and you won't regret it, mine has been flawless since I received it last year. I use it in a studio environment but all my other "B" mixers are without failures, it offsets that 0.01%. :)
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He was the .01%er :lol:
Sam good choice and you won't regret it, mine has been flawless since I received it last year. I use it in a studio environment but all my other "B" mixers are without failures, it offsets that 0.01%. :)
Lol.
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Here is my $.02 on the X vs DL argument. I own a DL1608 and have mixed quite a few shows on the X32 Compact and full size X32.
Like others have commented I have not heard of any widespread X32 issues. Behringer made a significant investment in R&D and manufacturing upgrades to produce the X32 series. It is NOT the 'old' Behringer QC that used to be the brunt of so many jokes. I have heard of a few issues, an occasional post about a console rebooting during a show, obviously not good, but I've never heard of one outright dying and it's certainly never happened to me.
I like my 1608, it's a good mixer, however, I dislike the effects, they sound cheap, the inline power supply, primarily the coaxial power plug, is a weak point and I really dislike the lack of recallable preamps, switchable phantom power on individual channels, and if you have a low gain mic that requires a high gain setting you can hear the LED's clicking as they flicker with audio. I also hate not having selectable pre/post aux settings on each channel instead of the whole bus (MF 3.0 fix??)
I am looking for a step up from my DL1608 for bigger shows. When I look at the DL32R I see virtually nothing in it that makes it a superior mixer to the X32 series, even the X32 rack. As has been pointed out for basically $100 more than the DL32R you can have an X32 Rack with an S16 add-on or buy a pair of X32's for just a hair more and have two for smaller shows and ganged together for 32 inputs on a big show.
The effects on the X32 are so much better than the DL series it's not funny and there are a lot more available. The routing is vastly superior, including send options, you have numerous RTA options, you have many more DCA's and subgroups, you have PC control and management capability via network, not just USB, and the USB to drive feature really isn't that big of a thing for me.
Plus you have control surface options. Last year I mixed 12 bands in two nights for a large festival. I could have mixed on my iPad using my 1608 but when you get wild and crazy band/set changes the iPad is just too restrictive, I want faders, buttons, and switches that I can grab quickly and easily. I still used my iPad on stage to set monitor mixes but I had a full FOH setup for when the band was performing because I need to make adjustments much more quickly than I could via an iPad constantly swiping around.
Something I forgot to credit Mackie with, I do think their iPad UI is one of the better ones out there, easy to navigate, when I do use an X series mixer I miss the ability to swipe left-right compared to using blocks of channels
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Here's my two pence worth
If i was doing gigs with a 32 channel desk, I would imagine these would be pretty important and well paying events, not like open mic at the dog and earwax tavern, there is no way I would purchase hardware that is currently soley reliant on ios,
I have some great apps on my pad for playback, every time IOS auto updates , the behaviour of these apps changes drastically and not always for the better, you would have to have a pretty regimented approach to working if this was your bag, of course you could switch updates off and use that 500 dollar euro whatever pad for nothing but live mixing, you now own a 3000 dollar desk, let's add a grand for two dedicated non updatable pads!
Or let's suggest Separate boot hard drive for your pcs with all the old versions of iOS on and the old versions of your apps and settings backed up, what a pain in the bum, at a gig the band leader or sound tech says, oh my pad has died lend me yours and I will just put this app on.....NO WAY Would be my response
I am sorry, but if there is a pc application to control the macke kit, it should have been distributed even in its rough form by now in order for them to get the feedback of guys like you at the earliest instance.
Drifting again
For goodness sake I look at that beautiful design and wonder why isn't there a slide out drawer to install a 2. 5 hard drive, I guess security freaks like me will make do with the Velcro strapping?
Kev
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IMHO, this is a pointless discussion.
Until the DL32R and MF3.0 are out, these pie in the sky comparisons are just a waste of time.
Even when it's out, comparisons will still be pointless.
People will buy it.
Some people will buy the x32 rack.
Other people will buy the A&H iDR 32 or Presonus or whatever.
One product doesn't have to desist for the other to exist.
Mackie will have their market share and Behringer theirs.
Coke or Pepsi, Apple or Microsoft, virtual or real faders, cheap or premium - we all have our preferences.
Some people here will want to see this and Mackie fail, but I'm not one of them.
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I don't think the discussion is pointless, we know Beno is watching the threads so this is a good way to get some feedback regarding what other people desire and why they look at other products.
I'm not slamming Mackie, I really like my 1608 but it's not a one size fits all product.
I think it's a little productive to point out some of the reasons the DL32R doesn't appeal to me over some of the X models.
Now here is a really good suggestion for Mackie that even people on the Behringer forums have suggested:
Build a control surface for the DL32R and I'll buy it! The reason I'm not interested in the DL32R currently is because I'm stuck using my iPad. If you had a remotable control surface, via WiFi or Ethernet that gives you all of the control with dedicate buttons, faders, switches, etc but it's just controlling the mixing engine via Ethernet I would be highly interested.
If and when I ever buy an X32 product it would be with an S16 because I don't want to lug a heavy snake around, I just want a single Ethernet cable (S16 to X32 or WiFi access to a control surface from the mixing engine)
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I have suggested a few times on here that a physical controller could encapsulate an iPad or a phone like a clam shell and offer protection and a rugged physical controller surface. 8 faders or increment wheels , and a next button for the next group of channels, a cut out so you can use the touch facility of the i device inside,
You guys have not even had the decency to even rip my ideas apart., apart from wykd bloke to be fair.
Come on guys, what do you think?
Kev :lol:
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I also hate not having selectable pre/post aux settings on each channel instead of the whole bus (MF 3.0 fix??)
Yah, a pet peeve of mine too. In particular I need to run things like the reverb sends for the snare, overhead and horns pre-fader. Right now I'm running the 'verb pre-fader as a work-around. I really would like two 'verbs too, then maybe I could live with "all pre or post", one each :) .
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I have suggested a few times on here that a physical controller could encapsulate an iPad or a phone like a clam shell and offer protection and a rugged physical controller surface. 8 faders or increment wheels , and a next button for the next group of channels, a cut out so you can use the touch facility of the i device inside,
You guys have not even had the decency to even rip my ideas apart., apart from wykd bloke to be fair.
Come on guys, what do you think?
Kev :lol:
Given the way iPad touch screens work I can't see how a physical overlay would operate. Take faders only, I suspect you have to have the contact pad touch the screen when you press the fadercap but then if the fader cap moved when you pressed it it might miss the V-Fader on the screen. Also how would you swipe the fader bank (and note that when you do swipe the fader bank it doesn't default to a fixed position for the visible faders, you can have half a fader showing). Sorry KT, you did ask :(
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I have suggested a few times on here that a physical controller could encapsulate an iPad or a phone like a clam shell and offer protection and a rugged physical controller surface. 8 faders or increment wheels , and a next button for the next group of channels, a
Kev :lol:
Given the way iPad touch screens work I can't see how a physical overlay would operate. Take faders only, I suspect you have to have the contact pad touch the screen when you press the fadercap but then if the fader cap moved when you pressed it it might miss the V-Fader on the screen. Also how would you swipe the fader bank (and note that when you do swipe the fader bank it doesn't default to a fixed position forhe visible faders, you can have half a fader showing). Sorry KT, you did ask :(
Hi buddy
This is not what I am suggesting, not an overlay, you Dock the pad to a slate or clam shell, the slate has a rechargeable battery to avoid pad drain, it keeps the pad charged too. Did I mention the big rubber antenna that improves wi fi range?
It connects via the Lightning port, you get a free old style adaptor thrown in free, not 50 dollars Ben if you are listening,
Instead of touching the screen, a row of 8 non latching toggle switches are semi permanently routed to the first 8 Software faders, I will include a nudge button to quickly shift to 9 to 16 , 17 to 24 or you can swipe the screen and decide if you want that group to be controlled by your pointer finger or the mechanical buttons etc, if you like you can have 2 active groups at once one on screen one on the slate, these do not need to be huge faders, they are the spring type toggle switches , you push them forward and backward but they revert to the middle position, so no false adjustments, I am suggesting we abandon the pointy finger gesturing and use this device in the natural position, the fore fingers of both hands supporting the unit from below, all adjustments made with the thumbs, so less rsi risk, so when you are in one edit screen let's say fx, you get the use of the pad touch edit, but the physical buttons are still tied to the last group of 8 you last edited, you get the option if you touch a physical button for the iPad screen to jump back to the fader view to show the change or not, of course you can toggle the groups of 8 to control all the other stuff, but there will be a dedicated master fader increment switch , fx level switch echo level switch and I am toying with adding a reverb mute button which is mirrored to a physical outlet on the slate for guitarists and such to mute fx, talk whilst still playing a song with a ..... Get this whacky idea. A fooswitch People who don't think this is enough will love the second version, this holds 2 pads, back to back, when you want to stick on a certain page like fx and iems and compressors but still want the direct fader access, you just flip the whole thing over.
I hope one of the clever guys somewhere takes this idea and runs with it and remembers that it was me who offered this gift to the world free of charge, makes a load of cash and pays me something?
Thanks for the feedback sam, your years of experience is priceless can I add you to my coming soon mail shot?
Oh by the way
How does
WUNDA SLATE
sound?
Kev
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I have suggested a few times on here that a physical controller could encapsulate an iPad or a phone like a clam shell and offer protection and a rugged physical controller surface. 8 faders or increment wheels , and a next button for the next group of channels, a
Kev :lol:
Given the way iPad touch screens work I can't see how a physical overlay would operate. Take faders only, I suspect you have to have the contact pad touch the screen when you press the fadercap but then if the fader cap moved when you pressed it it might miss the V-Fader on the screen. Also how would you swipe the fader bank (and note that when you do swipe the fader bank it doesn't default to a fixed position forhe visible faders, you can have half a fader showing). Sorry KT, you did ask :(
Hi buddy
This is not what I am suggesting, not an overlay, you Dock the pad to a slate or clam shell, the slate has a rechargeable battery to avoid pad drain, it keeps the pad charged too. Did I mention the big rubber antenna that improves wi fi range?
It connects via the Lightning port, you get a free old style adaptor thrown in free, not 50 dollars Ben if you are listening,
Instead of touching the screen, a row of 8 non latching toggle switches are semi permanently routed to the first 8 Software faders, I will include a nudge button to quickly shift to 9 to 16 , 17 to 24 or you can swipe the screen and decide if you want that group to be controlled by your pointer finger or the mechanical buttons etc, if you like you can have 2 active groups at once one on screen one on the slate, these do not need to be huge faders, they are the spring type toggle switches , you push them forward and backward but they revert to the middle position, so no false adjustments, I am suggesting we abandon the pointy finger gesturing and use this device in the natural position, the fore fingers of both hands supporting the unit from below, all adjustments made with the thumbs, so less rsi risk, so when you are in one edit screen let's say fx, you get the use of the pad touch edit, but the physical buttons are still tied to the last group of 8 you last edited, you get the option if you touch a physical button for the iPad screen to jump back to the fader view to show the change or not, of course you can toggle the groups of 8 to control all the other stuff, but there will be a dedicated master fader increment switch , fx level switch echo level switch and I am toying with adding a reverb mute button which is mirrored to a physical outlet on the slate for guitarists and such to mute fx, talk whilst still playing a song with a ..... Get this whacky idea. A fooswitch People who don't think this is enough will love the second version, this holds 2 pads, back to back, when you want to stick on a certain page like fx and iems and compressors but still want the direct fader access, you just flip the whole thing over.
I hope one of the clever guys somewhere takes this idea and runs with it and remembers that it was me who offered this gift to the world free of charge, makes a load of cash and pays me something?
Thanks for the feedback sam, your years of experience is priceless can I add you to my coming soon mail shot?
Oh by the way
How does
WUNDA SLATE
sound?
Kev
The general idea of having a hard control surface that encapsulates the iPad as its touch screen definitely has merit.
Many digital consoles today are just that -- except reversed -- they are traditional digital consoles with hard control surfaces, that have a touch-screen on them for UI control that are better handled by touchpad gestures.
This is no different, except that the "brains" are in the display.
Very creative idea. I bet we'll see one within a couple of years.
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I have suggested a few times on here that a physical controller could encapsulate an iPad or a phone like a clam shell and offer protection and a rugged physical controller surface. 8 faders or increment wheels , and a next button for the next group of channels, a
Kev :lol:
Given the way iPad touch screens work I can't see how a physical overlay would operate. Take faders only, I suspect you have to have the contact pad touch the screen when you press the fadercap but then if the fader cap moved when you pressed it it might miss the V-Fader on the screen. Also how would you swipe the fader bank (and note that when you do swipe the fader bank it doesn't default to a fixed position forhe visible faders, you can have half a fader showing). Sorry KT, you did ask :(
Hi buddy
This is not what I am suggesting, not an overlay, you Dock the pad to a slate or clam shell, the slate has a rechargeable battery to avoid pad drain, it keeps the pad charged too. Did I mention the big rubber antenna that improves wi fi range?
It connects via the Lightning port, you get a free old style adaptor thrown in free, not 50 dollars Ben if you are listening,
Instead of touching the screen, a row of 8 non latching toggle switches are semi permanently routed to the first 8 Software faders, I will include a nudge button to quickly shift to 9 to 16 , 17 to 24 or you can swipe the screen and decide if you want that group to be controlled by your pointer finger or the mechanical buttons etc, if you like you can have 2 active groups at once one on screen one on the slate, these do not need to be huge faders, they are the spring type toggle switches , you push them forward and backward but they revert to the middle position, so no false adjustments, I am suggesting we abandon the pointy finger gesturing and use this device in the natural position, the fore fingers of both hands supporting the unit from below, all adjustments made with the thumbs, so less rsi risk, so when you are in one edit screen let's say fx, you get the use of the pad touch edit, but the physical buttons are still tied to the last group of 8 you last edited, you get the option if you touch a physical button for the iPad screen to jump back to the fader view to show the change or not, of course you can toggle the groups of 8 to control all the other stuff, but there will be a dedicated master fader increment switch , fx level switch echo level switch and I am toying with adding a reverb mute button which is mirrored to a physical outlet on the slate for guitarists and such to mute fx, talk whilst still playing a song with a ..... Get this whacky idea. A fooswitch People who don't think this is enough will love the second version, this holds 2 pads, back to back, when you want to stick on a certain page like fx and iems and compressors but still want the direct fader access, you just flip the whole thing over.
I hope one of the clever guys somewhere takes this idea and runs with it and remembers that it was me who offered this gift to the world free of charge, makes a load of cash and pays me something?
Thanks for the feedback sam, your years of experience is priceless can I add you to my coming soon mail shot?
Oh by the way
How does
WUNDA SLATE
sound?
Kev
Ah, that would be more like it but, as you said earlier, sounds expensive. I think utilising existing tech would be cheaper so, basically, exactly what you suggest but with a dock for an iPad and a midi fader pack (BCF2000, Korg Nano Control or WHY) That way you're using existing (and cheap with the Korg and Berry BCF) tech in a new way. Good stuff that man ;D
BTW, "years of experience"? Are you suggestion I'm old? :D
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Now that's a cool idea! Yes, if you could make the control surface an extension of the iPad, much like numerous peripherals that are available for tables from GPS modules to mic inputs for RTA's on tablets.
I like the idea of the iPad or other tablet being a form of control surface but down below you have physical faders to mix on! Maybe a few encoders that can be swapped around via the ipad touch screen for EQ, Gate, Compressor, etc...
Cool concept!
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Cheers guys
Thanks for the feedback,
Wouldn't it be nice to have the resources to bring something like this to market? I am watching too much dragons den/ shark tank.
Sam I was not suggesting you were old mate, if you were old you would be wise enough to be not spending a load of dough on new gear ;)
Cheers
Kev
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OTOH, when I was young I didn't have the cash to spend on new gear (it all went on beer and women) :thu:
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Yeagh been there mate
Manufacturers must love us, a tiny tiny improvement ( probably inaudible to the audience ) and we ditch our kit without a second thought.
I miss the old A B tests of yesteryear, where you didn't have to concentrate so much, when there were huge noticeable differences that prompted upgrade.
Sm58 vs cheap mic, 300 quid speakers vs 1000 quid, big difference back then in the 80 s, do the same comparison now in a noisey room, not so easy any more, IMHO.
:lol:
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I spent a long time researching and auditioning speakers last year (having done the same in Oct 2012 resulting in buying the DL) and changed my 20+ year old Concert Systems passives, I settled on QSC K12s to go with my old but good EV sBa750 sub. A few Yamaha DXR10s and a couple of Alto TS110As for monitor duties (and smaller gigs) completes the rig. It has made a significant improvement in the overall sound, the old rig was very old but very good in it's day, times move on. I've also bought a few new mics (SE H1s and Beta57As) which also help the vocals sound good (I do like condenser mics as a lot of what I do is acoustic based music and the H1s sound more natural than most live vocal mics). Now I've got the X32 as well to cover bigger gigs I'm probably done for a while (well..... except for the S16, or two, Cat5 snake, couple more mic stands and cables etc..... will it never end)
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It's a winding road mate isn't it,
I am home in 2 weeks, going to sell every piece of electronics in the house from MP3 players to minindisk and spare mixers and CD players and so on, will treat myself with the cash,
Thinking about yammy dsr15 and ditching my subs and sats, all my current gear is hand made using the beyma specs for their 1000w neo drivers, it sounds nice tbh, and I have no reason to swap it out, my wages won't change,the audience having no comparator from old to new will not give a damm, we are a funny bunch I think, as you get older You want to manitain sonic quality but I think ease of get in and get out figure highly in the what to buy next equation.
Cheers
Kev
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Yup, I've moved a few steps up the ease of get in/out ladder. I'm not a serial gear changer though (simply can't afford to be) I tend to spend a while considering (anoracking) a purchase then I stick with it, usually for a few years. I reckon I've got ten more years (hopefully, I'm 61) doing this and the current rig with very minor tweaks should last me out. Got to save up for a banjo next anyway :lol:
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Yeagh been there mate
Manufacturers must love us, a tiny tiny improvement ( probably inaudible to the audience ) and we ditch our kit without a second thought.
I miss the old A B tests of yesteryear, where you didn't have to concentrate so much, when there were huge noticeable differences that prompted upgrade.
Sm58 vs cheap mic, 300 quid speakers vs 1000 quid, big difference back then in the 80 s, do the same comparison now in a noisey room, not so easy any more, IMHO.
:lol:
I hear you. Sometimes there is no noticeable difference in upgraded gear, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. It matters that you know there’s an improvement and YOU feel good about it. That sort of makes it alright to blow all that money. And sometimes the audience can hear the difference, especially with new speakers. I was perfectly fine with my existing powered Yorkie E10Ps, but wanted the new PS12Ps for more power for myself (for just in case) Didn’t need ‘em at all but bought them anyway.
They blew me away with the big difference in overall sound reproduction. I felt good. The funny part is, at the first gig with them, I actually got a handful of compliments on how good the speakers sounded. Justifiable Gear Acquisition Syndrome. Case closed. But…. If there’s a cool piece of gear that comes along that really rings my chimes, Stop Me Before I Spend Again. My Financial Advisor (my better half) will reign me in, so to speak. :) Hmmmm, need that new matching sub to go with the new tops. >:D
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Both of you guys are spot on, I think we are buying and researching gear and upgrading to keep our own interests alive, I am 51, this is my 30th year in the game, it is nice to sound nice, nobody appreciates that as much as the bloke on stage,, I was hoping to pack in soon, but special delivery of first child Ina few weeks has scuppered that, so I am expecting to be a 70 year old bald bloke doing buble covers in 20 years, I hope they have flying speakers and cars by then,,
:lol:
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I've been doing a volunteer schtick at a veteran's hospital here in Toronto (Sunnybrook) 21 years to date, playing organ (now a Roland Atelier 800) for the war vets. The music I play is pure oldies. It's one of the gigs that makes me feel young at 59. Some of the regulars come and talk to me after I'm finished. My age has come up and I always say I'm getting old, completely out of energy and I'm almost 60. They laugh and say " Oh my goodness dear, you're so young, I'm 92". Wow, it's all a matter of perspective.
I will keep doing this in particular, even if I have to be wheeled up to the organ and lifted onto the bench in my late 80's ;D This is one of the many gigs that keeps me feeling young at heart and wanting to keep going. Yes and the gear is getting lighter, but for some reason as I get older, the gear gets heavier too. I'd love for someone to invent gear that packs itself into the van, takes itself out of the van and sets itself up too. :lol:
PS: Kev, you can't go wrong doing Michael Buble' covers, the ladies will go wild. ;)
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I did a gig yesterday, down then back up two flights of stairs (a local pub on the side of the river Irwell, The Mark Addy) effectively we park on the roof, the worst of both worlds as you're carrying the gear up at the end when you're already knackered :face palm: Great gig though, part of the English Folk Expo.
I used to windsurf every week, racing various boards over the years and we always noted how much heavier the (sub 13kg) boards were when carrying them back up the beach :D I still race and freesail occasionally but have got back into dinghies as well now so, as the weather in the summertime is more suited to skiff type dinghies with huge sails I do more of that these days.
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I did a gig yesterday, down then back up two flights of stairs (a local pub on the side of the river Irwell, The Mark Addy) effectively we park on the roof, the word of both worlds as you're carrying the gear up at the end when you're already knackered :face palm: Great gig though, part of the English Folk Expo.
I used to windsurf every week, racing various boards over the years and we always noted how much heavier the (sub 13kg) boards were when carrying them back up the beach :D I still race and freesail occasionally but have got back into dinghies as well now so that takes up part of my sailing time.
I've had the privilege of carrying a Leslie 330 Pro up and down 2 flights of stairs at a big local gig way back in the day. I did it but I was only 25 :lol: But the crème de le crème was playing at a major downtown hotel. The ballroom was on the 2nd floor and we were able to drive our van onto a huge freight elevator and back right up to the stage. That was luxury indeed. 8)
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Hmmmmm, cough, cough, as amusing and nostalgic as the veterans of dance hall stories may be, may I suggest we get back to the topic at hand.
Any other considerations in comparison worthy of illumination, albeit still a bit speculative of course ? :)
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Hmmmmm, cough, cough, as amusing and nostalgic as the veterans of dance hall stories may be, may I suggest we get back to the topic at hand.
Any other considerations in comparison worthy of illumination, albeit still a bit speculative of course ? :)
It’s nice to digress once in a while when the occasion calls for it. It’s also important to stay on topic, but that’s not always possible when you’re conversing with so many different people with so many diverse backgrounds and experiences. ;)
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Allow me, to add just some facts.
DL depth of 17.5", weight of 18lbs. Dual fans
XRack depth of 11.3", weight of 14.4lbs Fanless
Both 3 rack space height.
Both essentially specially purposed computers that are susceptible to solar gamma ray or emi corruption and potential show stopper, not much unlike any modern-era automobile we drive, smart device arse warmer we communicate on, or heart pace-maker that perhaps allows some of us to keep on doing what we do best. :)
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Don’t think too many of us here are ready for a pacemaker just yet. Although there are days. ;)
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Thanks guys
:)
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Don’t think too many of us here are ready for a pacemaker just yet. Although there are days. ;)
My duo partner has just had a pacemaker fitted...... He's older than me..... by about 6 months :(
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My duo partner has just had a pacemaker fitted...... He's older than me..... by about 6 months :(
[/quote]
Sam, I am very sorry to hear that, but hopefully it will help in the long run. If I've offended you, that was not my intent. I was responding to James91104. I was off put by some of the comments and responded in kind. I apologize to you.
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My duo partner has just had a pacemaker fitted...... He's older than me..... by about 6 months :(
Sam, I am very sorry to hear that, but hopefully it will help in the long run. If I've offended you, that was not my intent. I was responding to James91104. I was off put by some of the comments and responded in kind. I apologize to you.
Hey, no offence taken at all, (sorry that my post caused you to think I may have been upset, it was meant as a light hearted, wry comment on the fact that I'm not one of the young guns any more), having reread my post I get why you might misunderstand my sentiment but Mike is in good shape in all ways and booking gigs well into the future.
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Sam,
Thank you for that. I feel better. But knowing someone that close like a duo partner and friend does make one sit down and take stock. I'm glad he is well. :thu:
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There will be computer control of the DL32r, that's what the usb b is for on the back - output 32x32 didn't Beno say?
really?
any source for this?
i'm still wondering if you could just plug an ipad right in through a sync cable into that USB port.
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It is my impression the only control of the DL32R is and intended to be only via iPad. The only reference to that of any computer connectivity is via the USB B connector for future 32x32 bidirectional computer DAW data recording and playback.
This in my mind continues Mackie`s DL806/1608 iPad ONLY control environment with the DL32R.
This aspect I factually state does differentiate their DL digital mixers from ANY of the other obvious manufacturers offerings. Whereas control of other digital mixer platforms may offer a number of hardware/software choices for control, the DL series apparently is rigidly tied to the Apple iOS.
In a particular example of comparison I point to the newly announced Behr..... X series which are slated for both iOS and android control applications.
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My Brother had a pacemaker put in, but he was fighting against it, until they told him that he would be able to start running again. They put it in and within a month, he was exercising enough to pull the wires out and they had to attach it again. (A second out patient surgery.) He's starting up a lot slower this time.
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Whereas control of other digital mixer platforms may offer a number of hardware/software choices for control, the DL series apparently is rigidly tied to the Apple iOS.
And that's why I could not purchase such a limited product, considering the irregular erroneous problems caused by apples update policy, crazy,
Kev :)
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Whereas control of other digital mixer platforms may offer a number of hardware/software choices for control, the DL series apparently is rigidly tied to the Apple iOS.
And that's why I could not purchase such a limited product, considering the irregular erroneous problems caused by apples update policy, crazy,
Kev :)
Sorry Kev, what problems are you talking about?
Nothing major springs to mind in my dealings with MF and the DL1608.
I don't find the product "limited" at all and it would seem other digi mixer manufacturers are of the same opinion, with just a few beginning to offer Android control.
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Allow me, to add just some facts.
DL depth of 17.5", weight of 18lbs. Dual fans
XRack depth of 11.3", weight of 14.4lbs Fanless
Those are deep. I was kind of thinking that the digital age allowed these devices to be much more compact. The DL1608 is tiny and light. I use shallow XRacks now and am not thrilled with the idea of moving up to a full-depth rack case to carry the X32Rack ... which the DL wouldn't even fit in. Maybe I should be waiting for the next generation rack units ...
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Those are deep. I was kind of thinking that the digital age allowed these devices to be much more compact. The DL1608 is tiny and light. I use shallow XRacks now and am not thrilled with the idea of moving up to a full-depth rack case to carry the X32Rack ... which the DL wouldn't even fit in. Maybe I should be waiting for the next generation rack units ...
so now a full-featured 32ch live sound mixer in 3 rack spaces is too big? :lol:
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so now a full-featured 32ch live sound mixer in 3 rack spaces is too big? :lol:
Those were my exact same thoughts. :lol:
A very wise person once told me that, "you can please some people some of the time. And then there are some people who can be pleased all of the time.
But ya can't please All the people All the time.
And lastly there are some people who quite simply Can't be pleased Any of the time" :facepalm:
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Those are deep. I was kind of thinking that the digital age allowed these devices to be much more compact. The DL1608 is tiny and light. I use shallow XRacks now and am not thrilled with the idea of moving up to a full-depth rack case to carry the X32Rack ... which the DL wouldn't even fit in. Maybe I should be waiting for the next generation rack units ...
so now a full-featured 32ch live sound mixer in 3 rack spaces is too big? :lol:
Well said Walter!
People need to put things into perspective.
Next "32 mic stands, leads and mics won't fit into my Mini because the 3u rack is too big!"
A bit of depth and weight would be helpful to stop it from tipping or shifting with a load of connections in it.
IMHO I'd rather have cooling fans and not need them, than need them and not have them. :)
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Hello, i'am Cornelius and new to this forum...
Are there and thoughts about combining 2 Behringer S16 stageboxes with a X32 CORE,
instead of the RACK version?
To me it seems a small set-up with a total of 32/16 inputs/outputs on the front in only 5 rackspace.
Regards from The Netherlands,
Cornelius
(Yamaha LS9 and DL1608 user...)
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Those are deep. I was kind of thinking that the digital age allowed these devices to be much more compact. The DL1608 is tiny and light. I use shallow XRacks now and am not thrilled with the idea of moving up to a full-depth rack case to carry the X32Rack ... which the DL wouldn't even fit in. Maybe I should be waiting for the next generation rack units ...
so now a full-featured 32ch live sound mixer in 3 rack spaces is too big? :lol:
3U was not my issue ... just the depth. Currently the deepest piece of rack equipement I own is 7-8", (I have all self-powered speakers so no outboard amps) and I have a set of shallow XRack cases that I set on the sound table. The X32 would require a standard depth rack case, and the DL32 one of the larger ones. It stops being a tabletop setup.
I would rather have a shallower 4U unit than a deeper 3U.
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And to think they made it especially deep so you had somewhere to mount your wifi access point and direct to disk hard drive.... ::)
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I too have switched to only shallow racks and needing a deep one is problematic - especially as I'd hope to have a couple amps (I have passive subs and monitors), a wireless mic receiver, and an IEM transmitter in there too. There'd be a HUGE amount of wasted space in there and compact is important to me.
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Whereas control of other digital mixer platforms may offer a number of hardware/software choices for control, the DL series apparently is rigidly tied to the Apple iOS.
And that's why I could not purchase such a limited product, considering the irregular erroneous problems caused by apples update policy, crazy,
Kev :)
Sorry Kev, what problems are you talking about?
Nothing major springs to mind in my dealings with MF and the DL1608.
I don't find the product "limited" at all and it would seem other digi mixer manufacturers are of the same opinion, with just a few beginning to offer Android control.
Hi Robbo,
I have 2 or 3 apps I am going to use for live playback of tracks and interval music, mistakingly I left auto update on on my pad, and IOS updated overnight and I experienced a few problems with the apps, the developers release an update and fix a few problems and stability is restored within a few days, backing tracks smacking trax I have 3 spare laptops in reserve and an iPhone, what I am saying is this, if I was mixing 32 mics in important shows, I would be worried about making any changes to my pad, I would need a spare pad, I would be worried about making changes to the spare, I would probably have a hard disk which boots my pc with a restore option of the previous iOS versions, you can see where this is going can't you, it's like you have to add 1000 pounds to the cost of every digital mixer that is ipad only, or have a very organized back up and restore regime in place.
Cheers
Kev
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Are there and thoughts about combining 2 Behringer S16 stageboxes with a X32 CORE,
instead of the RACK version?
To me it seems a small set-up with a total of 32/16 inputs/outputs on the front in only 5 rackspaces
Hello, thoughts are as pointed out, yes, 5 rack spaces combined. With that combination however one now has the option of full 32/16 I/O remote stage location of the S16`s. However, there is the lack of Aux I/O`s that is provided on the X32Rack.
The Core does provide an input selection knob & scribble strip display, a dedicated Talkback input, and 2 assignable encoders & 4 assignable switches when compared to the DL32R.
Core is 12" depth, xRack and S16 are both about 11" depth.
DL32R is 17.5" depth.
Again using Sweetw.... for pricing reference, X32 Core @ $800 US, plus 2 times X32 S16 @ $900 US for a total of $2,600 US, tops the previous
comparison examples in the $2K range.
Specific to the X Series range of products, the Core does not provide the full degree of front panel mix capability access such as the X32 Rack possesses due to the obvious omission of a TFT screen and accompanying encoders and function buttons.
Though one could extreme emergency mix from the Core front panel, the X32Rack would provide for a less sweat generating scenario I would think.
So really I propose the X Core/ dual S16 combo is more of an equal, head to head comparison to the DL32R AND the Pres.... RM32AI as this most closely mimics I/O facilities and more importantly no or least amount of front panel mix control.
Of course this thread is in response to the original topic comparison between the DL32R and the X32Rack.
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Hello, i'am Cornelius and new to this forum...
Are there and thoughts about combining 2 Behringer S16 stageboxes with a X32 CORE,
instead of the RACK version?
To me it seems a small set-up with a total of 32/16 inputs/outputs on the front in only 5 rackspace.
... plus the added flexibility of having your input racks in two different locations to optimize cable lengths.
Unfortunately those S16s are a bit pricey relative to the head units.
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I don't think the discussion is pointless, we know Beno is watching the threads so this is a good way to get some feedback regarding what other people desire and why they look at other products.
I'm not slamming Mackie, I really like my 1608 but it's not a one size fits all product.
I think it's a little productive to point out some of the reasons the DL32R doesn't appeal to me over some of the X models.
Now here is a really good suggestion for Mackie that even people on the Behringer forums have suggested:
Build a control surface for the DL32R and I'll buy it! The reason I'm not interested in the DL32R currently is because I'm stuck using my iPad. If you had a remotable control surface, via WiFi or Ethernet that gives you all of the control with dedicate buttons, faders, switches, etc but it's just controlling the mixing engine via Ethernet I would be highly interested.
If and when I ever buy an X32 product it would be with an S16 because I don't want to lug a heavy snake around, I just want a single Ethernet cable (S16 to X32 or WiFi access to a control surface from the mixing engine)
Agree 100%. A nice control surface with REAL faders and knobs would be missing piece of the puzzle for all of them: X32 rack, Presonus RM and Mackie DL32R: light, battery-powered and with built-in Wi-Fi. Kind of wireless version of A&H iLive series (where iDr stage rack is essentially the same as all those rack mixers).
I don't really see the point of positioning them against each other: iPads/tablets via Wi-Fi and wired control surfaces. Why we can't have both in one device: Wi-Fi remote control surface with motorized faders, scribble strips, meters, etc. Battery life isn't really that important (like with laptops, as long as you have a few minutes to move from one position to another and plug it into nearest AC outlet, that's all I need!)
I like X32, but it doesn't make sense to haul it around if all you need can be located in the rack on stage: nice lightweight 25-fader Wi-Fi control surface will do the job just fine. (hopefully they will make a long-awaited step up to 48 inputs this way (X32R plus 2xS16). Mackie had a nice MCU series controllers with all this functionality.
Seems like AVID may catch on this faster: their S3 surface (part of S3L system) is a prime candidate. All it needs is some additional "docking station" containing battery, charger and Wi-Fi module, that's all! It's compact and lightweight enough to fit the purpose.
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A linkable hard surface with proper faders would be great for the DL1608 never mind the DL32R.
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It's a dead cert that any future tactile remotes for these wireless gizmos will be attached to an iPad,
I did mention my own concept a few weeks ago, IMHO there will be no need for motorized faders,as you will have a visual representation of level etc, on the pad, a row of spring loaded increment decrement paddles will suffice I think.
Kev
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It's a dead cert that any future tactile remotes for these wireless gizmos will be attached to an iPad,
I did mention my own concept a few weeks ago, IMHO there will be no need for motorized faders,as you will have a visual representation of level etc, on the pad, a row of spring loaded increment decrement paddles will suffice I think.
Kev
I doubt any touch-screen or rubber pads will replace real faders: try to ride them smoothly or ride a few at once -- never! Energy consumption by motorized faders is hardly a problem, just a matter of selecting proper battery solution (there are zillions of battery-powered devices that contain electric motors, from power tools to electric cars, all work fine on batteries).
If size/weight become an issue (shouldn't, it's not one-size-fits-all situation), then just make a live/remote Wi-Fi version or Mackie MCU or Digi 003: 8-9 motorized faders and switchable banks/layers
iPad may work as a display unit (levels, names, etc.) or for some functions that don't require a tactile control (i.e. left-right swipe across channels like on DL1608 or "drawing" of graphic EQ curve)
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We have bluetooth keyboards for our ipads. Why not a bluetooth fader rack? Sell them in 16 channel sets and be assignable. I can see this working. The market would be as big as the number of ipad dependent digital mixers and that number will only be going up. (Quickly at this point.) I would want sliders with physical tracks, but they wouldn't have to be actual potentiometers. (That could get dirty and fail.) Wouldn't have to be 100mm long either.
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We have bluetooth keyboards for our ipads. Why not a bluetooth fader rack? Sell them in 16 channel sets and be assignable. I can see this working. The market would be as big as the number of ipad dependent digital mixers and that number will only be going up. (Quickly at this point.) I would want sliders with physical tracks, but they wouldn't have to be actual potentiometers. (That could get dirty and fail.) Wouldn't have to be 100mm long either.
It all goes down to castrated claustrophobic solution, kind of mini USB piano keyboards with micro-sized keys that even kid can't play. Yes, it's the same black and white keys as in real piano but absolutely unusable for serious playing. No different than using laptop keyboard for playing notes with one finger, one at the time.
I see the ideal remote control surface as full-sized 100-mm faders, with normal spacing between them, 25 faders at least (16 for channels, 8 for subgroups, VCAs, etc. and one master fader). Scribble strips (channel names) and signal level meters are a must too. I don't mind to see it as a sliced top of Behr X32, same size.
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Might as well buy a real desk with iPad control!!
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Something with 8 channel strips, each with a 100mm fader, 3x assignable buttons and a rotary encoder, a master fader and 8 or so assignable buttons for bank/level selection would do me, scribble strips would be a nice bonus. All battery powered and built in WiFi.
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Might as well buy a real desk with iPad control!!
QU-16 or X32 Producer? Maybe just something shiny and cool under the tree for Christmas? ;)
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Might as well buy a real desk with iPad control!!
QU-16 or X32 Producer? Maybe just something shiny and cool under the tree for Christmas? ;)
Qu-16,24 or 32 please 🎅🎄🎅🎄🎅 😉👍
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Depends if you're on the Naughty or Nice List :P
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I could live with that.
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It's a dead cert that any future tactile remotes for these wireless gizmos will be attached to an iPad,
I did mention my own concept a few weeks ago, IMHO there will be no need for motorized faders,as you will have a visual representation of level etc, on the pad, a row of spring loaded increment decrement paddles will suffice I think.
Kev
I doubt any touch-screen or rubber pads will replace real faders: try to ride them smoothly or ride a few at once -- never! Energy consumption by motorized faders is hardly a problem, just a matter of selecting proper battery solution (there are zillions of battery-powered devices that contain electric motors, from power tools to electric cars, all work fine on batteries).
If size/weight become an issue (shouldn't, it's not one-size-fits-all situation), then just make a live/remote Wi-Fi version or Mackie MCU or Digi 003: 8-9 motorized faders and switchable banks/layers
iPad may work as a display unit (levels, names, etc.) or for some functions that don't require a tactile control (i.e. left-right swipe across channels like on DL1608 or "drawing" of graphic EQ curve)
I didn't suggest rubber pads or touch screens, if you go back 3 pages it's pretty clear I am talking about a handheld device, what I am suggesting is a physical fader knob fastened to a spring loaded switch, push it forward, loud, pull it back , well you know, why have motor faders when the pad would visualize for you, it's something that could be built in to the existing pad software, you have paid 500 dollars for the pad, it's wireless and works from a good range, bluetooth is not so good IMHO, and is another spend, another unit to charge lug service etc.
Not sure if we are discussing two separate concepts here, once we start getting in to larger units, walking around the audience might go out of the window, and gym membership might be essential?
Cheers
Kev
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Gym Membership ? Pshaw! I'm in shape. Round's a shape too! :lol:
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I didn't suggest rubber pads or touch screens, if you go back 3 pages it's pretty clear I am talking about a handheld device, what I am suggesting is a physical fader knob fastened to a spring loaded switch, push it forward, loud, pull it back , well you know, why have motor faders when the pad would visualize for you, it's something that could be built in to the existing pad software, you have paid 500 dollars for the pad, it's wireless and works from a good range, bluetooth is not so good IMHO, and is another spend, another unit to charge lug service etc.
Not sure if we are discussing two separate concepts here, once we start getting in to larger units, walking around the audience might go out of the window, and gym membership might be essential?
Cheers
Kev
Small wifi-enabled devices (or those that clip onto a smartphone) would seem pretty handy. there are probably a lot of interesting controls that could be used outside of FOH.
I'm still all for 8 or 16 channel modular control surfaces, with both wifi and hardwired.
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Hi jkowto,
I like the idea of a static control surface, but it could cost a few quid, and like the mixers we know and love be prone to spillage damage,
I hope you guys get the gizmos you require soon, it's horrible when you can see the product you need when nobody else can.
I think with my gym suggestion, that once you get in to a larger unit your wrists will soon suffer, and you would need two hands to support the unit requiring fader nudged via ones nose, lol
Cheers
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I think with my gym suggestion, that once you get in to a larger unit your wrists will soon suffer, and you would need two hands to support the unit requiring fader nudged via ones nose, lol
Cheers
For the larger units you can use this ... (http://s3.lonestarpercussion.com/resize/images/product-image/Dynasty-P23MTSB.jpg) ;)
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Even with my ipad mini, what I usually use for remote mixing, I put it in my ipad keyboard/stand. I'm rarely using it without a place to sit down and I really like having a table. I picture a larger ipad being used similarly.
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Kinky bit of kit that.
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:(
Kinky bit of kit that.
Too true Kev.
It's even called "Die Nasty", I'd avoid that especially if I was on a sax, rugs and sausage roll binge lol.
Then again, maybe safe enough at an OAP afternoon gig?
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:(Kinky bit of kit that.
Too true Kev.
It's even called "Die Nasty", I'd avoid that especially if I was on a sax, rugs and sausage roll binge lol.
Then again, maybe safe enough at an OAP afternoon gig?
Lol ... you do know it's a percussion harness, right?
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:(Kinky bit of kit that.
Too true Kev.
It's even called "Die Nasty", I'd avoid that especially if I was on a sax, rugs and sausage roll binge lol.
Then again, maybe safe enough at an OAP afternoon gig?
Lol ... you do know it's a percussion harness, right?
Don't spoil it for me, I thought it was from some gimp circus lol
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I thought it was a support for the remote control of one of them tower crane things, used in construction..
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Perfect for Oktoberfest!! Just right for that Lederhosen Outfit. Nein? :laugh:
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Perfect for Oktoberfest!! Just right for that Lederhosen Outfit. Nein? :laugh:
Das ist Verboten!
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Perfect for Oktoberfest!! Just right for that Lederhosen Outfit. Nein? :laugh:
Das ist Verboten!
:lol: :thu: :thu: Grrreat, now you haf me talkink in zah stage german now. Acch! :laugh: