Jumping into the DL1608 Phenomenon

[Keyboard Magic]

This may start a firestorm, but here goes! 

So, I’ve been following all of the comments all over the net for some time on the DL1608. Of course there’s good and bad. There always will be with new technologies. Even before I bought the DL I was caught up in all the “should’ve been added features”. When it boils down to it, the way it is now is practical for anything I’m going to use it for. The biggest feature for me is wireless operation from anywhere in the venue. Yes, I know that you have to buy a separate compatible wireless router to use this feature. In an ideal world it should have been built in for the price they are asking for it. So should a whole bunch of other little features.  That’s neither here nor there for me.

I could have saved up some more (a lot more) cash to buy one of the other brands with more features per dollar, but the ones that had the cooler stuff in this price range are not available yet. The Behringer X18 may show up sometime this year? The QSC TouchMix is not out yet. The other digital boards that are available like the X32 etc. are out of my price range at the moment. The Mackie was available now with features that fill the bill. I think Mackie pushed it out to the market to fill a need in that price range. IMHO they are a little behind the times now. I don’t know if the Line 6 StageScape came out around the same time or not, but it’s about $1000.00 more than the DL in Toronto.

I just purchased it this month, so I really debated a long time before buying. Where do we draw the line with all the desired features? I’m sure that now that I have purchased this particular iteration of the DL, they will probably bring out a version 2 model with some much needed hardware upgrades before the end of this year.  (I know wishful thinking!) Myself, I am not going to jump until I’ve had a few years use out of it. By that time I’ll probably have to get to my gigs with a walker. 

No I do not work for Mackie and if Yorkville had come out with something similar I would have jumped all over it. But they didn’t and probably won’t ever, or at least in my lifetime.

That’s my rant. Thank you to all that have taken the time to read this. 

[Jerrylee]

KM I'm curious how much you paid for your dl in Toronto. I had mine on Craigslist and kijiji there and could have saved you a lot of $$$.

[Fluddman]

KM - has your DL arrived yet?

While it can be useful to read everything you can about a product, its how well it does the job for you that really matters.

It will be good to hear your thoughts when you have done a few gigs with it.

For me, the DL continues to delight me and its small footprint is just perfect for the work I do. Sure I'd like some of the features of the newer more expensive products but isn't that always the way with technical products.

Good luck with yours!

Cheers

[Keyboard Magic]

Fluddman;

Haven't got it yet, but I really am looking forward to getting it. It's supposed to arrive at Long & McQuade on or about March 27th. Thank you for you supportive words. I think it will actually do quite well for me!

And to Jerrylee;

Kick to the pants, I never even thought about Craigslist and Kijiji 

it retailed at Long & McQuade Toronto for $1099.99. Actually I am kicking myself for not buying when Mackie had the $100.00 discount last year AND the retail price before the $100 off was $999.99  I would have got it for $899.00 OIY!! Hindsight is always 20-20 

I will report back once I do have it in my sticky little fingers. I'd better stop, I'm already drooling all over my laughtop in anticipation 

[Keyboard Magic]

So... Just unpacked my new DL1608 today. 

Inserted my iPad 2, powered it up in the correct sequence and the firmware update went smoothly. To my surprise, all my pre-configured scenes that I experimented with before I got my DL were completely erased.  Yes I am using the latest version of Master Fader (2.1.1)

Is this a normal one shot occurrence out of the box during a firmware update, or will this happen every time there is an update to Master Fader? If it is, it's more of a minor annoyance than anything else. I can always make new scenes. I even tried to see if they could be found with the iPad connected to my laptop running iTunes. Nope. Any suggestions or comments?

Other than this little quirk, I'm really looking forward to using it in a live situation!! That will be this coming Monday. 

News Update from Mackie Tech Support on this issue: "This is currently an issue we are investigating. Typically you should not lose any presets, snapshots, etc. when updating."  I could've done something wrong maybe??

[Wynnd]

I've had a few quirky results.  One being a return of a bandmember that is under doctor's orders to not play for the next 6 months.  Haven't figured out how that happened.  I don't recall saving any shows with him since the heart attack.  (He's recovering and we miss him.)   I do think that it might have occurred from my backup on the macbook.  I have taken to allowing the mixer to decide first configuration.  If I need a different show, I give it a couple of minutes before recalling a different show.  Seems to work better, but I can't tell you for sure.  (Might just be my imagination.)

[Keyboard Magic]

So, I set up the DL with my powered speakers in my family room. It powered up okay and Master Fader worked as expected. I plugged in an SM-58 mic, set up the pre-amp level, raised the main volume and voila, sound from the speakers. I have to admit that the mic sounded pretty good in the house. I then hooked up the laptop to play some stereo trax. For some reason the pre-amps sounded a little brassy through my powered cabs. I left all EQ at flat. I know that mp3’s are known for less than pristine audio quality. 

I then hooked up my Allen & Heath Z10 mixer and ran the same scenario. The overall sound quality was a lot warmer than the DL. I A/B’d both mixers a couple of times and the ZED is definitely warmer overall. Once I set up the DL for a 3rd listen, I was able to play around with the EQ curves and make my powered speakers sound a bit closer to the Allen. I think that since I am so used to the warm sound from the A&H my ears will need a little bit of retraining to become used to the DL’s Onyx pre-amps. In a live situation, most people won’t even hear the difference. And that’s all that matters. But I do like to present the best sound that I can though.

Time will tell in a live situation and if I am not happy at all with the DL, I can return it within 30 days back to Long & McQuade for a complete refund. I am going to take most of the 30 days to give the DL a fair chance. 

[stevegarris]

FWIW There's no knowing what it will sound like until you're at the gig. I compared my DL to my Mixwiz, and just felt the DL sounded better, clearer or more distinct. YMMV

[Keyboard Magic]

stevegarris;

You're 100% right on there.    Everything sounds different at the gig. Type of room, number of people etc, etc, and so on. I will be able to ring the DL and system out properly when my first gig happens next week. 

[Nottoodeaf]

Well, I have my x32 Rack on order so I have been working with the mix app and editor program in preparation.  It certainly has a ton more features, capabilities and flexibility even before you get to it's multi-track recording capabilities.  Maybe it is because I have used my DL for a year and a half, but it sure seems a lot more user friendly than the Rack.  I can see where, intentionally or not, Mackie could be marketing to a slightly different crowd.  While I no longer play and have used the DL strictly to do sound for other bands and events, I can see where it would be much easier for a performing soundman to use the DL.  BTW, I have gotten great results with the DL and have enjoyed using it.

It' kind of like a billing program that our firm used.  When the staff kept messing up the billing for a lack of training and familiarity, the rep hawked it's flexibility and features as it's strong points.  Unfortunately, the multitude of options increased the complexity and the staff did much better with a more basic user friendly program.  In that vein, I have been able to school an assistant on the DL in no time, but would not try that with the Rack.

That's my 2 cents worth and it is worth exactly that.

[Wynnd]

I haven't tried running an RTA through the mixer.  That might have radically different results.  My Alesis Multimix 16 firewire is very midrange strong, but the DL and my MixWiz never seemed very far apart sound wise.  (Never A/B'd them in the same room.)   So I'm finding this interesting.  My Driverack units don't RTA through a mixer but only past it.  I do have an older school RTA that I can use through a mixer-EQ-Amp-Speaker system.  Your results have me curious about the results.

[WK154]

KM if you want a fair comparison you need to only compare the mixers in this case. You need to eliminate all outside influences such as speakers and room acoustics. Get yourself a quality pair of headphones and simply compare at the same loudness levels the two mixers. You can play with eq's etc. to get a sound that pleases you. The rest of the setup for the gig will depend on other factors such as speakers and room acoustics along with output conditioning (eq's comp. etc.). A good RMS Volt meter would give you precise loudness levels. MP3 quality can be better than CD quality 44.1K x 16 to poorer than CD quality.

[Keyboard Magic]

WK154;

Thank you for the tip about using a good pair of headphones to just compare the mixers without any other influences.    I do have a pair of studio phones for audio editing etc. Those should work just fine for the comparison. Different pre amps will also sound different to my ears as well. So the phones are an excellent choice!!

You are right on about mp3 quality too. They go up to 320 kps which sound pretty good. Of course for school dances I can even get away with 128 kps. The kids just want it loud. 

[Jerrylee]

Screw the headphones. When will you be playing a gig with headphones?  That was terrible advice. Compare the two boards with your speakers. The "outside influences" that affect the boards will exist every time, and anywhere, you play. But comparing in the same exact environment A/B'ing the boards you will get a great comparison, headphones or speakers. Don't you want to compare the board how they will actually be used? Headphones are speakers too. They also have an influence on sound. But again, when will you be playing live through headphones? They better be damn big ones. Or you better have a lot to hand out and a major headphone amp.

The one thing I like to use headphones to test is the effects. Just to hear what they sound like. But I could also do this with my speakers. The reason I test my effects this way is to get an idea of what they sound like with out having to set up my speakers. But I am just testing the effects. Not comparing them to anything. Just getting used to them.

[Wynnd]

Think you missed the point.  When comparing two mixers for sound quality, headphones are probably the best approach.  It's obviously not the answer to setting up a PA system for a gig and I don't think anyone suggested that it was.  When comparing two mixers side by side, headphones would surely make any differences obvious quickly.  On the other hand, good mixers don't color sound much unless you're attempting to make it happen.  (I lean with the flat response crowd.  My channel EQs are rarely anywhere except flat.  I'm using DriveRack PX for system EQ.)