Fluke or Good Luck? Hope for the DL?

[nottooloud]

I thought you might enjoy this opinion on bit depth.
http://www.sonicscoop.com/2013/08/29/why-almost-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-bit-depth-is-probably-wrong/

Oh man. I have a new favorite blog. I thank you, sir, most sincerely.

[Keyboard Magic]

Greg C.;

Thank you for that valuable information. I was sort of referring to the DL's gain structure in particular, but as you said, the gain has to be set to match the input, of course. It appears that you can run the DL hotter than some, but always be aware of clipping and distortion. I always rely on my ears and not necessarily, only just the physical mixer settings. 

[Wynnd]

The trim on my wireless mic is usually the whole way down.  The one for my piano is usually about the 1 o'clock position.  I know there's a lot of available headroom, but don't usually run the system hard at all.  Out of force of habit, I run the VU meters at about -40db background noise.   

[WK154]

As Greg stated above don't get hung up on physical knob positions of your gear, you need far more understanding about it's limitations and ranges. One of Rane's classic papers on gain structure is a good explanation of what you need to know about your equipment. Although written for analog equipment most of it holds true for digital as well.
http://www.rane.com/note135.html
Or if you have the tenacity to work your way through the other reference with a lot more detail you'll get the idea.
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/how_do_you_set_system_gain_structure/
None of these however address your first and foremost problem, mic selection and positioning along with the right gain setting, oh yeah training that loose cannon called the talent, at least some. If the mic noise floor is 21 dBSPL, something you'll never hear in the application, and a max of 145 dBSPL, enough to scramble your brains and blow out you eardrums, where do you position the mic in this gain structure (preamp gain)?

[Keyboard Magic]

WK154;

Thank you for the references, they will be helpful indeed. Technical info does make a difference in the over all picture. I like to combine the tech with my ears for running sound. They have always helped me avoid the onset of wild feedback, frying rental speakers and my own gear for years.

Of course if the MC decides to walk right in front of a speaker with the mic, even though you've given explicit instructions to avoid that, you can only slam the main volume down, or hit mute with lightning speed to avoid an audience of destroyed eardrums.  Loose cannon indeed!!!

Many a time though, my local music store has supposedly tested speakers before renting them to me and once I have them up and running I've heard an intermittent horn speaker cutting in and out. Oh well, I guess it goes with the territory.

And I do appreciate the references once more, they will give me some good reading. Thank you!

[Ampli]

A good eq setting will also help to avoid feedback if a mc walks in front of the main pa

[WK154]

The end game will always be for ears and most times not your own. Dave Rat of Red Hot Chile Pepper and many other fame mixes with minimal knob twiddling and observes the band and more important the audience's reaction to the sound and mixes to them. A whole other level. If you pay attention in bar and nightclub gigs as you increase your loudness so does your audience since they want to converse. This can literally end up in a shouting match or early departure of audience with less business for the owner. As for the Emcee problem, if you don't know them and you can't confine them to a podium mic then give them the tightest hyper/super cardioid dynamic in your bag. For ten+ years I was spoiled by Chip Esten (Nashville series star) as our emcee who could make a dead mic work for him.

[Greg C.]

As for the Emcee problem, if you don't know them and you can't confine them to a podium mic then give them the tightest hyper/super cardioid dynamic in your bag.

That doesn't always work either. Sometimes you get an emcee that won't stay on top of the mic and likes to hold it down nice and low or hold it far away. In those instances, a tight pattern mic can be a liability and you would have been better off with a 58. Too bad a mic technique license isn't required for people that want to speak through a PA.

[Greg C.]

Of course if the MC decides to walk right in front of a speaker with the mic, even though you've given explicit instructions to avoid that, you can only slam the main volume down, or hit mute with lightning speed to avoid an audience of destroyed eardrums.  Loose cannon indeed!!!

This is a reason to run stereo mains. When I observe a speaker stepping off stage in front of main and there's potential for feedback, I put my fingers on the channel pan for that mic and get ready to pan to the mains channel opposite of the one they're walking in front of. Depending on the venue, mic, and vocalist, you may be fine. Many mics are very stable with loud monitors and the PA is just another monitor - though it's EQ'd differently and may be running at a hotter level.

[WK154]

As for the Emcee problem, if you don't know them and you can't confine them to a podium mic then give them the tightest hyper/super cardioid dynamic in your bag.

That doesn't always work either. Sometimes you get an emcee that won't stay on top of the mic and likes to hold it down nice and low or hold it far away. In those instances, a tight pattern mic can be a liability and you would have been better off with a 58. Too bad a mic technique license isn't required for people that want to speak through a PA.

I rather like to let themselves look stupid and the embarrassment factor is a good weapon to use against them. No Emcee I know wants to not be heard. Trial by fire my way, I'm not standing up there looking dumb  .

[Greg C.]

Well, you know how that always goes - no matter who's fault it really is, it's the sound person's fault. You'll still get the blame 

[Jerrylee]

Ya got tha lt right Greg. I was doing sound at an event several years ago. I had nothing to do with the band. They were way too loud and I was getting blamed. The event person came and yelled at me to turn it down. I told her I had nothing to do with it. She kept yelling. So I looked at her and said "look at the board, it's off". Yes I turned everything off to prove it had nothing to do with me. Of course there were no vocals anymore. But I had to prove my point. She probably still thought it was my fault.

[Keyboard Magic]

Yes, you always get that look,  when something glitches, out of your control. Like the MC forgetting to turn the mic back on, even though you had planned to leave it on the whole time and control it with the mute button and many other faux pas that you get dumped on for. Of course we all do make mistakes from time to time 

For example, just recently attended the Michael Bubble' concert at the Air Canada Centre. Everything went fine until the very last number. Que trumpet solo ( trumpet was fitted with a wireless mic) no sound at all, either the mic died or was not turned on from the board. Or the preprogrammed scene didn't bring up the mic etc. etc. Might have even been a dead battery too. These are top pro's at a higher level than I'll ever be, but stuff happens to everyone and I'm glad I wasn't part of the sound crew for that one too. But I felt bad for them just the same.

[Greg C.]

Ya got tha lt right Greg. I was doing sound at an event several years ago. I had nothing to do with the band. They were way too loud and I was getting blamed. The event person came and yelled at me to turn it down. I told her I had nothing to do with it. She kept yelling. So I looked at her and said "look at the board, it's off". Yes I turned everything off to prove it had nothing to do with me. Of course there were no vocals anymore. But I had to prove my point. She probably still thought it was my fault.

I has something similar happen a few years ago with the police. Great band was playing my venue, Howlin' Rain. But they have 3 guitar players turned up to 11, painfully loud. Instead of getting a loudness complaint from the neighborhood for low end, it was guitar. Not even going through the mains at all. So the cops show up during a long guitar solo and I see them coming. I hit the VCA mute for the mains before they even get down to me on the floor. The one in charge starts screaming at me to shut it down. I keep telling him the PA is off. He still screaming at me, getting up in face, spittle and all, threats of jail, etc. I finally scream back, "IT'S OFF, IT'S OFF" and grab all the faders with my arms at once and pull them down to show that it make no difference. He finally got the picture. After the solo was done, I got on the talk back mic and informed the band the show was shut due to police action. When they came back the following year, they turned down noticeably easier to get a better balanced mix.

[Greg C.]

Dave Rat of Red Hot Chile Pepper and many other fame mixes with minimal knob twiddling and observes the band and more important the audience's reaction to the sound and mixes to them. A whole other level.

Well, it really is a whole other level with Dave. He has the luxury of mixing the same band night after night with a system tech that handles all the PA fly and tuning at every venue. He doesn't have to do much knob twiddling at all. In fact, the pots on his Heritage 3000 & outboard almost never get touched from venue to venue since he mixes the same band every night in large spaces and there's little need to change things once the system is dialed in. Sometimes I think he might forget it's a little different in club/small venue land mixing bands you've often never mixed before, one right after another. And you're dealing with more stage volume in the mix in smaller rooms. More knob twiddling is often required I find with acts that aren't totally pro and don't have a grasp on volume dynamics during instrument solos and such. I find the more pro a band is in general, the less work it is for me all around

P.S. That's Dave in the red shirt in my avatar