Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: iBloke on June 29, 2014, 07:52:14 AM
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G'day. My name is Phil. I live in Victoria, Australia.
I'm 52 and have been a live sound engineer since around 1987. And have over 1000 gigs under my belt.
My current PA consists mostly of QSC speakers (I love them)
My current mixers are Allen & Heath ZED16FX & ZED10 which I can cobble together to use for larger stage requirements
But I've grown tired of having to splice 2 mixers together and wold like to buy something that can cover at least the ever expanding monitor requirements of modern bands
Enter the Mackie 1608.
I've been reading a squillion reviews on this digital iPad mixer and have mostly found positive reviews.
I'm a huge Apple fan. I love iOS. And currently own 2 iPads. An iPad "3" with 30 pin dock connector, and a new iPad mini retina with lightening port.
My plan would be to buy an older version DL1608 with a 30 pin dock and leave my iPad 3 plugged in all the time.
And use my iPad mini as the wireless remote interface.
Still with me?
Ok so I've just noticed several Australian online vendors have drastically cut the price of the DL1608 and because of the relatively huge price drop it's made me wonder "WHY?"
Is Mackie about to release a new version of the DL1608 ?
I've googled that question a few times and have come up with no answers.
Anyone here know the reasons behind such a massive price drop ?
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Welcome Phil. By massive cuts what do you mean $ or Au numbers would help here. In the US the Map is $999 and I've seen it as low as $799. I doubt you'll see a replacement of the DL1608 anytime soon. Careful your not looking at DL806 and taking it for DL1608 prices.
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Hi iBloke, welcome to the forum.
I have a DL1608 and I love it. If it has sufficient I/O for your future needs then go for it. If there's a risk you'll need more in the future then consider (I seem to be turning into Jerry Lee here >:D ) some flavour of Behringer X32. In Europe the X32 Rack is £180 more than a DL and has double the capability and huge expandability. I will be buying an X32 soonish (probably the Compact but maybe a B stock full console direct from Music Group) but I'll definitely be keeping the DL for smaller gigs and backup.
If the DL is enough then buy it, it's a great desk.
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Welcome Phil. By massive cuts what do you mean $ or Au numbers would help here. In the US the Map is $999 and I've seen it as low as $799. I doubt you'll see a replacement of the DL1608 anytime soon. Careful your not looking at DL806 and taking it for DL1608 prices.
G'day and thanks for the nice welcome :)
Yes I mean Aussie $$ and the biggest price cut I've seen is $363
We pay a lot more for everything down here and the DL1608 generally retails for around $1449.
Anyway while typing this reply I've just received an email from the shop where I saw the largest price drop. They tell me it's a 3 day end of the financial year stocktake sale and they discount a lot of their stock. The sale ends at 6pm tonight.
So I've got a few hours to make up my mind, although I haven't quite saved up enough money yet so I'd need to dip into my credit card a little.
Hi iBloke, welcome to the forum.
I have a DL1608 and I love it. If it has sufficient I/O for your future needs then go for it. If there's a risk you'll need more in the future then consider (I seem to be turning into Jerry Lee here >:D ) some flavour of Behringer X32. In Europe the X32 Rack is £180 more than a DL and has double the capability and huge expandability. I will be buying an X32 soonish (probably the Compact but maybe a B stock full console direct from Music Group) but I'll definitely be keeping the DL for smaller gigs and backup.
If the DL is enough then buy it, it's a great desk.
Thankyou also for your welcome :)
Yes for my purposes the DL1608 is more than enough. I rarely need 16 channels, and the most monitor sends I've ever used is 4, but at least one more would make things a bit easier.
And as far as Behringer goes, yes I see quite a bit of it used at various gigs and rarely see a breakdown. I use 2 Behringer B215 speakers as sidefill and they get the snot flogged out of them running drums, bass guitar, vocals etc and they just keep on ticking.
One of my regular bands owns their own PA and it's all Behringer except for the subs. It's a great little rig and sounds pretty reasonable.
Anyway yes I've also read a lot of positive reviews on the X32 line.
I better go and count my pennies to see if I can afford the DL while it's discounted
Cheers :)
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G'day iBloke.
Did ya get it!!
I'm also from Australia and have been waiting for prices to drop so I can buy a backup unit.
Cheers
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G'day iBloke.
Did ya get it!!
I'm also from Australia and have been waiting for prices to drop so I can buy a backup unit.
Cheers
G'day Fluddman. I've read literally hundreds of reviews of the DL1608 all over the internet, and "Fluddman" rings a bell. I'm almost sure I've seen your nickname attached to this mixer?!
Anyway yes I have bought one. It simply didn't make any sense to pass up the opportunity to save $363!
And if I don't end up liking it I won't lose as much selling it.
Cheers :)
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Good one. I am sure you'll be impressed. There's nothing wrong with the Zed mixers but the DL just offers so much more as a mixer with all the EQ options, compressors, gates and on top of that wireless mixing using an ipad.
Sounds like you got a good price too. Enjoy!
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The only thing I really have any concerns about is the router I'll be using for wireless. It's a dlink and it's proven to be a bit obstinate on various occasions.
Oh and I gotta swap my standard XLR connectors for TRS phono plugs to suit the AUX outputs.
A few beers steadies my shaky old hands whiles soldering ;D
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I bought a few of these. Very handy!
http://www.swamp.net.au/mic-cable-XLR-male-to-1-4-1m.html (http://www.swamp.net.au/mic-cable-XLR-male-to-1-4-1m.html)
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I bought a few of these. Very handy!
http://www.swamp.net.au/mic-cable-XLR-male-to-1-4-1m.html (http://www.swamp.net.au/mic-cable-XLR-male-to-1-4-1m.html)
Haha it was only a cuppla weeks ago I made a few insert leads to be able to patch both my A&H Zeds together.
Looks like I'll be converting them to fully balanced rather than their current inset lead status
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/geetar%20stuff/3D50BDD4-006C-4E69-936A-C31B99611D70_zpstajh6r88.jpg) (http://s.photobucket.com/user/gronk62/media/geetar%20stuff/3D50BDD4-006C-4E69-936A-C31B99611D70_zpstajh6r88.jpg.html)
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Good move going digital given your context!
Biggest difference you'll notice right off the bat is the preamps - the A&H boards tend to have a really "hard" red-line, that is, they suck the moment something hits red. Mackie's Onyx preamps are much more forgiving, you can be well into the red before you start hearing anything, and it's subtle at first. The metering's different too - the 1608 will show a signal that "looks" hot enough, but you'll probably want to go hotter than you're used to.
Mine only makes it out to a few shows a year - most of what I do is for sound companies with their own mixers, or fixed installations. But it works every day in my "day job" as an in-line compressor for my voice, and I'm constantly getting compliments on the quality of my voice while talking with customers (Heil PR40 on the front, mucho voice-training for that "radio announcer" style).
The times I've used it with my buddies QSK K-series gear has been especially stellar, you won't be disappointed!
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Good move going digital given your context!
Biggest difference you'll notice right off the bat is the preamps - the A&H boards tend to have a really "hard" red-line, that is, they suck the moment something hits red. Mackie's Onyx preamps are much more forgiving, you can be well into the red before you start hearing anything, and it's subtle at first. The metering's different too - the 1608 will show a signal that "looks" hot enough, but you'll probably want to go hotter than you're used to.
It will be interesting to compare sound quality. I've pretty much loved all the A&H's I've used over the years. Really the only times I see a clip light wink is a ferocious snare hit or even more rare is the kick drum channel. Apart from that my mixes are red LED free.
The times I've used it with my buddies QSK K-series gear has been especially stellar, you won't be disappointed!
I'm really hoping so. I absolutely love my QSC gear :)
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I use my DL1608 with a pair of QSC K12s and a single EV sBa750 sub. Always get complemented on the sound quality.
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I use my DL1608 with a pair of QSC K12s and a single EV sBa750 sub. Always get complemented on the sound quality.
I use my QSC PA gear as a stereo in my man cave between gigs. 2x Ksub, 1x KW181, and 2x K10 mid/highs.
It's nice having all that power as a stereo. Crystal clear and VERY punchy! :D
The man cave before I fixed it up a bit
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/geetar%20stuff/The%20Shed/TheShed1.jpg)
And after a bit of a sweep and general tidy up :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/geetar%20stuff/805638f782cd8c206f79e3308799f6d5_zps54604358.jpg)
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Welcome Phil. By massive cuts what do you mean $ or Au numbers would help here. In the US the Map is $999 and I've seen it as low as $799. I doubt you'll see a replacement of the DL1608 anytime soon. Careful your not looking at DL806 and taking it for DL1608 prices.
G'day and thanks for the nice welcome :)
Yes I mean Aussie $$ and the biggest price cut I've seen is $363
We pay a lot more for everything down here and the DL1608 generally retails for around $1449.
Anyway while typing this reply I've just received an email from the shop where I saw the largest price drop. They tell me it's a 3 day end of the financial year stocktake sale and they discount a lot of their stock. The sale ends at 6pm tonight.
So I've got a few hours to make up my mind, although I haven't quite saved up enough money yet so I'd need to dip into my credit card a little.
Hi iBloke, welcome to the forum.
I have a DL1608 and I love it. If it has sufficient I/O for your future needs then go for it. If there's a risk you'll need more in the future then consider (I seem to be turning into Jerry Lee here >:D ) some flavour of Behringer X32. In Europe the X32 Rack is £180 more than a DL and has double the capability and huge expandability. I will be buying an X32 soonish (probably the Compact but maybe a B stock full console direct from Music Group) but I'll definitely be keeping the DL for smaller gigs and backup.
If the DL is enough then buy it, it's a great desk.
Thankyou also for your welcome :)
Yes for my purposes the DL1608 is more than enough. I rarely need 16 channels, and the most monitor sends I've ever used is 4, but at least one more would make things a bit easier.
And as far as Behringer goes, yes I see quite a bit of it used at various gigs and rarely see a breakdown. I use 2 Behringer B215 speakers as sidefill and they get the snot flogged out of them running drums, bass guitar, vocals etc and they just keep on ticking.
One of my regular bands owns their own PA and it's all Behringer except for the subs. It's a great little rig and sounds pretty reasonable.
Anyway yes I've also read a lot of positive reviews on the X32 line.
I better go and count my pennies to see if I can afford the DL while it's discounted
Cheers :)
Hey iBloke,
I run very similar configuration. IPad 3 docked and an iPad Air remote. Get yourself an Apple Airport Express and you will never have WiFi issues. Also, it supports dual band 2.4 and 5 GHz
The only thing I really have any concerns about is the router I'll be using for wireless. It's a dlink and it's proven to be a bit obstinate on various occasions.
Oh and I gotta swap my standard XLR connectors for TRS phono plugs to suit the AUX outputs.
A few beers steadies my shaky old hands whiles soldering ;D
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Hey iBloke,
I run very similar configuration. IPad 3 docked and an iPad Air remote. Get yourself an Apple Airport Express and you will never have WiFi issues. Also, it supports dual band 2.4 and 5 GHz
G'day Harpman :)
I originally considered getting an airport express but that's an extra $119 I don't have right now. Maybe down the track I'll grab one, especially if my D-link gives me problems.
My DL still hasn't arrived yet so I won't be able to use it at tonight's gig.
My next gig is 6 weeks away, so I'll have plenty of time to get to know it without being under pressure at a gig.
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My Airport Express died in the middle of a gig a couple of weeks ago. It was still under warranty and became the first Apple product I've owned to die while in warranty. Apple replaced it at their Apple Store. So, they can die, but I have a fair number of Apple products, so this is unusual.
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Another +1 for the Airport Express. You do need to do a couple of setup things to stop it trying to find the internet but only the first time you connect it up.
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My Airport Express died in the middle of a gig a couple of weeks ago. It was still under warranty and became the first Apple product I've owned to die while in warranty. Apple replaced it at their Apple Store. So, they can die, but I have a fair number of Apple products, so this is unusual.
Actually while I was researching the DL I read a mountain of reviews and forum posts all over the internet and something I found odd was the seemingly more than average reports of airport express failures.
I dig apple gear and have had a mostly trouble free run, so far.
But reading relatively regular reports of airport failures kinda put me off them a bit.
We have a Billion VoIP router in our house, and the D-link in my shed.
The Billion has been 100% reliable for about 7 years.
The D-link is a bit cantankerous but has never completely failed.
Anyway, I'll see how it pans out over the next few weeks :)
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As an indication that I don't think this is normal. My previous home WiFi included the previous generation Airport Express and it's replacement is a Time capsule. (Time Capsule doesn't have airplay available.) Just upgrading equipment and the old Airport Express still works years after I put it into use.
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Apple must have sold millions of airport express so its no surprise that some of them must fail.
For what its worth I've got three of them and have had no trouble and one is very old.
Great thing about using the airport express is you can stream break music from your iPod, iPhone or iPad for break music - very handy!
I ended up buying a new one when I got my DL as the older ones don't do 5gHz.
Cheers
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Great thing about using the airport express is you can stream break music from your iPod, iPhone or iPad for break music - very handy!
Cheers
I didn't know that. Great idea though!
Would save me having to swap the cable between the various iPhones punters hand me to play one of their favourite songs...which often are some hideous modern rap, or Doof garbage LOL
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The downside is you have to use a couple of channels as the you connect the airport express to the DL by cable.
When I am close to the DL i usually use the docked iPad to play music but for shows when I am out front I stream from my iPhone. Technology!
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The downside is you have to use a couple of channels as the you connect the airport express to the DL by cable.
That's one thing that bugs me a little. It would have been nice for there to be a set of RCA inputs, or even a 3.5 mm stereo input socket, although I rarely need more than 14 channels anyway.
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I'm thinking the word "chubby" would be appropriate right now :D
My DL finally arrived this morning and I've been playing with it since.
A few minor issues getting my router to work but everything seems to be good right now.
Only audio "issue" I've had so far is the dreaded blast of pink noise while playing music from my docked iPad. I've read about this before so I kinda expected it.
The reality is I'm surprised it hasn't been addressed by Mackie. It's a pretty GLARING issue, but then I'm not savvy to technical stuff like software issues so who know why it happens...
Anyway I've tested all inputs and outputs. Got my stubborn dlink router working with both iPads and my iPhone.
The obligatory picture. Yes I know my sheds messy right now but it'll get tidied up later tonight :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/geetar%20stuff/4BAEDC29-935E-422F-9B44-05E2C6D6589F_zpstjgnvw06.jpg)
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You'll have hours of fun with the DL. Sorry to hear you experienced the pink noise already - I've never had that one yet.
Fortunately there are many good features on the DL. I love the GEQ and PEQ and particularly the recent addition of PEQs on all the outputs.
Once you get used to the graphical displays for the EQs you'll never want to turn the knobs on an analogue mixer again.
Have fun!
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You'll have hours of fun with the DL.....
Have fun!
I will !
Cheers :)
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You'll have hours of fun with the DL. Sorry to hear you experienced the pink noise already - I've never had that one yet.
Fortunately there are many good features on the DL. I love the GEQ and PEQ and particularly the recent addition of PEQs on all the outputs.
Once you get used to the graphical displays for the EQs you'll never want to turn the knobs on an analogue mixer again.
Have fun!
+1
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Welcome to Club DL. I'll be going past your way next year in Sept. to the Great Barrier for a couple of weeks. I do have one question, how hot was it in your shed when the pink noise happened? I have a theory based on past experience with other Analog Devices (AD) DSP's and ARM's the processors in the DL. I have a Berry DEQ2496 which has 2 Sharc DSP's and an ARM cpu and the unit would crash at 90-95 F ambient. A screwdriver and 3 heat sinks later solved that problem although it still could use some air vents. Haven't gotten around to fitting a fan to the DL yet to see if it will solve the problem. CPU/DSP's are graded for speed at the factory by the amount of heat generated (impedance actually) a normal process variation. I'm thinking that AD is too close to production limits and causing this random failure.
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Might that explain why some people are having this problem and others aren't (local climate/variation between units re- high temperature tolerance)? A mate of mine (who only lives a couple of miles from me) has just bought a DL1608 and experienced the dreaded white noise, I have had mine for 18 months now and, though I don't use the iPad channel for playback much, haven't had a single problem with this issue. He uses iPad3/iOS7 I use iPad2/iOS7 (docked) and iPad3/iOS6 (wireless) for most gigs.
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If that is the issue, the fix might be pretty simple. Better cooling. Someone should make an external fan to force air through the mixer. Might not help with warm temp gigs, but probably with everything else. I really think this could be an easy fix. And an external fan shouldn't affect the warranty. Could probably test this easily by using a hair dryer with a disabled heating element taped to one of the vents. Or you could leave the heater element and find out quickly what happens when the inside is heated. (I'd be a bit careful with that.) Now if the overheating is occurring on the ipad itself, that would be a different animal and would take a different approach to test. Interesting discussion.
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The idea came to me when one of the Canadian posters was concerned because he left it in the car overnight and it was cold. I'm thinking it was also cold during the day as well. He had no problems all day long. Yes it could be a temperature problem for borderline IC's but someone that has constant problems needs to test it, I can only stress it cable wise to get it to fail. :( That may be a totally different problem.
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I highly doubt temp is the problem. It's a good theory though.
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Welcome to Club DL. I'll be going past your way next year in Sept. to the Great Barrier for a couple of weeks. I do have one question, how hot was it in your shed when the pink noise happened? I have a theory based on past experience with other Analog Devices (AD) DSP's and ARM's the processors in the DL. I have a Berry DEQ2496 which has 2 Sharc DSP's and an ARM cpu and the unit would crash at 90-95 F ambient. A screwdriver and 3 heat sinks later solved that problem although it still could use some air vents. Haven't gotten around to fitting a fan to the DL yet to see if it will solve the problem. CPU/DSP's are graded for speed at the factory by the amount of heat generated (impedance actually) a normal process variation. I'm thinking that AD is too close to production limits and causing this random failure.
G'day, I live in Victoria and we are in our winter months now. The temp in the shed yesterday was a bit cooler because I didn't have my wood stove going.
I don't follow the ancient imperial measurement system so I haven't got a clue what the temp was in F but it was around 16 - 18 Celsius (21 C is considered a generally comfy room temp for humans)
And when it happened I was doing other things on the docked iPad. Reading emails etc.
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My 27 year, 1000+ gig reputation revolves around several things.
One of the most important things is I pride myself on constantly supplying my live sound abilities, which have been both reliable, and consistent.
I'm also respected for supplying 99% reliable production gear.
I've been the owner of my first digital mixer for about 30 hours and have become increasingly frustrated by ONE reoccurring problem.
The white/pink noise blast when trying to do the simple task of playing music from my permanently docked iPad.
FFS it's absolutely unacceptable for shite like that to happen!
It's happened so often that I've developed less than zero trust in this, my first and last, mackie product.
Yes I can plug an iPod directly into channels 15 & 16 and get 100% reliable set break music.
This effectively makes the DL a 14 channel mixer with an effing useless docked iPad channel.
Why is it there if it doesn't work reliably!?
I expected the pink noise blast problem due to learning about it during the extensive research I did prior to purchase.
But not so friggin' often! I don't even need to be doing anything with the mixer and it happens.
Makes me wonder what other ridiculous reliability issues this thing has.
I'm absolutely dreading my first gig with it!
I'll be taking my analogue rack with me every gig.
The DL was supposed to help cut down on the gear I needed to carry to gigs to make my life a little easier.
But all it's done so far is instil in me is a lack of trust.
Fluddman, and any other fellow Aussie will understand me when I say, "NOT HAPPY JAN!"
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Oh and before anybody tells me to contact Mackie directly about this issue, I've already done that.
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Bummer mate. Straight back to the shop with that one!
Its obviously faulty so it should be replaced without question.
Cheers
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Bummer mate. Straight back to the shop with that one!
Its obviously faulty so it should be replaced without question.
Cheers
My guess would be that it's not "faulty" simply because the pink/white noise issue is well documented, and as such I believe it's a software issue, and not a hardware issue.
Take this one back for a replacement, or keep it and use channels 15 & 16 for iPod playback. I still have zero faith it's reliability.
If I send it back I'll more than likely just take a full refund and continue on with my tried and trustworthy analogue gear.
I haven't used a multicore for a few years, and have had the Allen & Heath setup side stage. I simply walked out front, took notice of what was needed, back to the mixer side stage, made the necessary adjustments.
Repeat.
I had really hoped the that the mackie providing me with the ability to rove about and mix wirelessly (not to mention the tuning of monitors with the EQ in my hands at the microphone) would be a dream come true...
Hopes and dreams get dashed by bad experiences.
So without even one gig on using the mackie I can't recommend it to anybody who values reliability.
I'm glad you are happy with yours Fluddman.
But "initial impressions" are everything to me.
And my less than 2 days initial impression of this abomination suck.
...I shoulda listened to my inner voice... :-\
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And it just occurred to me that not only would I ever trust another mackie product, but I'd be reluctant to trust any other brands digital offering...
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There are a lot of people who have never experienced the white noise problem. I think it's more likely a hardware issue. If it were software, everyone would probably experience it. And the fact that you have a work around makes it a smaller issue. (In my mind.) I rarely provide recorded music anyway that doesn't include losing a couple of channels. (Even on a StudioLive 24.4.2 mixer.) I also rarely provide recorded music. I have used airplay, but there are a few issues there too. The 2 second delay at starting a song, Wifi interference. (That happened on the 2.4 Ghz band from my iphone 4S last Friday. Started having skips. No problem on the 5 Ghz band. Should probably take my laptop and look at where the problems are.)
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There are a lot of people who have never experienced the white noise problem. I think it's more likely a hardware issue. If it were software, everyone would probably experience it.
A few years back I would have agreed with you.
I even said a similar thing on the whirlpool forums in regard to iPhone and iPad updates where there were a seemingly large crowd experiencing higher than normal battery drain issues, etc after they updated to the latest iOS software.
While the majority of others with the same hardware found either no issues or actually improvements.
Same hardware. Same software. Various results.
Still doesn't instill me with any future confidence in the DL.
I've been scratching my head for the past few hours trying to figure out a work around for my situation so that I don't have to carry ALL my old analogue gear as well as my new digital stuff.
Only way I've been able to come up with is to carry the DL in a brief case fitted out with foam n stuff, install my DBX DriveRack PX and one DBX 231 EQ in a 4RU sleeve, and put my tried and true A&H Zed16FX in its own small as possible brief case so it can be carried behind the seat in my truck just in case it's (more than likely) needed.
No need for the big heavy back breaking rack all that stuff currently resides in.
Whatever the outcome, I've been in contact with a handful of my fellow live sound friends and have informed them of this issue.
2 of them have since washed their hands of mackie and will either stick with what they have, or look at other digital options.
The others want me to keep them informed of future developments. (They are a few months off being financial enough to do anything)
This kinda thing really underlines the importance of "getting it right" for any buisiness that supplies gear to such a small cross section of the population.
Several of the above mentioned people are good friends of mine and as such I'll make it my business to steer them clear of potential issues like this glaring problem.
I call it how I see it.
I took a punt on mackie.
I lost on that punt
I'll help my friends avoid the same loss.
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I just remembered a post I read while researching this DL thing that made the statement the DL is "the etch A sketch" of the digital mixer world.
I agree with that now.
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I wonder if Mackie's Chinese manufacturer has started substituting cheaper components than those specced to save themselves some money? Older units seem to be ok, new ones not so much? Uli Behringer commented on this issue with Chinese factories, says it was why they built their own facility and send their own people to manage it.
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I wonder if Mackie's Chinese manufacturer has started substituting cheaper components than those specced to save themselves some money? Older units seem to be ok, new ones not so much? Uli Behringer commented on this issue with Chinese factories, says it was why they built their own facility and send their own people to manage it.
It wouldn't surprise me. But then I have less than zero understanding of how electronics work.
I know what resistors, capacitors, diodes, transistors, and IC's look like, but have zero knowledge of how they work in a circuit.
All I know is the end result "should" work.
Plug the iPad into the DL1604 dock.
The displayed channel list shows all 16 input channels, and they all work..albeit with slight variations on the input gain knobs using a standard SM58 to test all input levels.
ALL my other analogue mixers had nearly identical input gain knob settings.
The DL1608 has varying input gain knob settings. Same mic, and same lead. Inconsistency? YES!
Does that mean the input "op-amps" in the DL are inconsistent?
I would say emphatically YES!
So, what other glaring inconsitencies are present in this ... Abomination?
I've decided to contact the store I bought this POS from to see what my options are.
For our USA friends Australia doesn't have the same returns policies you blokes have access to.
We have a "too bad, you bought it, live with it, tough luck" policy which protects retail sellers but leaves the buyer high and dry.
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Here is some info for you guys about the white noise issue. I have Auria and used to have a presonus 1818. We would rehearse with it. But the white noise issue was there too. We would be in the middle of rehearsing and all the headphones quickly were ripped off. It got to the point where it was becoming automatic. The first several times it was awful. But we knew it would eventually happen. This is an for more than just Mackie.
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Just curious if you force closed all the apps and told the iPad to not connect automagically to new networks detected - plus told it to forget all known networks? Then reboot the iPad, this seems to get mine reliable - read through the list of FAQs here :) . Oh, and maybe put it in "airplane" mode too?
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Airplane mode will shut off WiFi access. (And probably bluetooth too.) One of these days, airplane mode won't turn off the WiFi. Might just vanish totally because no-one uses it or needs it anymore.
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Airplane mode will shut off WiFi access. (And probably bluetooth too.) One of these days, airplane mode won't turn off the WiFi. Might just vanish totally because no-one uses it or needs it anymore.
He's docked so doesn't need WiFi. These !@#$%^ Apple devices seem hell-bent on connecting to random WifI networks if you don't tell them not to :( .
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Mate here are some thoughts on your problem. Contact Ben Olswang at Mackie and offer your unit to his engineers since they seem to have difficulty reproducing the condition. Money back and other expenses paid. If your turned down we at least know that they already know the answer. I am not discounting the idea that it is temperature related it may just not be ambient triggered. There were times in the past that we ran computationally intensive tasks to stress CPU's to weed out the problem ones. A couple of thermocouples on the chips would tell the story. I'm sure you're not set up to do that. Warranty exchange being your only other option (PITA) might get you one that behaves better.
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A couple of thermocouples on the chips would tell the story.
That's sooo last century - An FLIR camera is the way to go these days. Plus it makes pretty pictures for the MBA's - just add circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back and you're golden ;) .
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Just buy a QU-16 and be done with it!
New features just added with v1.5 software and it's an Allen & Heath ;)
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A couple of thermocouples on the chips would tell the story.
That's sooo last century - An FLIR camera is the way to go these days. Plus it makes pretty pictures for the MBA's - just add circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back and you're golden ;) .
Yeah just how do you propose to get your expensive toy inside a functional DL to take pics? The CIA may have something that might do the job. ;)
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It might be helpful if those who have experienced the issue post the date purchased and the serial number (or at least the part of the serial number which codes the manufacturing date, anybody know which this is?). That way we could see if the problem afflicts randomly or is only with newer units.
I've just put my iPad2/iOS7 setup docked and playing background music while I noodle around doing stuff just to see if I really am free of the issue. I'll try the iPad3/iOS6 another day.
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Yeah just how do you propose to get your expensive toy inside a functional DL to take pics? The CIA may have something that might do the job. ;)
Oops, I assumed that you could run it open somehow.
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In any case I'd guess it's the iPad not the DL "doing it".
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Mackie engineering better have a open setup but you always get surprises when packaged. I thought we established it's in the DL since other interfaces had no problem with it (ie. X32, etc.).
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Just curious if you force closed all the apps and told the iPad to not connect automagically to new networks detected - plus told it to forget all known networks? Then reboot the iPad, this seems to get mine reliable - read through the list of FAQs here :) . Oh, and maybe put it in "airplane" mode too?
All other apps force closed. Only music and mackie apps open.
It's always in airplane mode since I removed the SIM card. Although I have to have WiFi enabled so that I can get my iPhone and iPad mini to wirelessly connect.
Rebooted all devices several times.
Next experiment will be to restore docked iPad to new, and re-download mackie app which will be the only non standard app on the iPad.
I've also checked the dock connector with a magnifying glass. Looks clean.
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Mate here are some thoughts on your problem. Contact Ben Olswang at Mackie and offer your unit to his engineers since they seem to have difficulty reproducing the condition. Money back and other expenses paid. If your turned down we at least know that they already know the answer. I am not discounting the idea that it is temperature related it may just not be ambient triggered.
I will do that.
And in regard to the temperature thing, I booted everything up from cold and within 2 mins got the first white noise blast for the day.
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Just buy a QU-16 and be done with it!
New features just added with v1.5 software and it's an Allen & Heath ;)
Would love to buy QU-16 but down here in Aus they are around the $3000 mark.
That's nearly 3 times the price I paid for the mackie.
I simply don't have that kinda money.
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In any case I'd guess it's the iPad not the DL "doing it".
There could be some possibility of that.
I have an old apple iPhone dock. The one with the removeable plastic inserts to suit any model 30 pin iPhone.
I use it in the shed to charge my old 3GS which has been retired to iPod use.
I used to plug into the 3.5mm audio out jack in the dock so that I was efectively using the 30 pin connector to pass the audio through the dock.
I remember having various odd sound issues and the music volume would fluctuate.
Since then I just plug straight into the iPhones headphone jack and haven't had any audio issues since.
So maybe there is some kind of tarnish on the audio specific pins in the dock on my iPad and it's enough to cause "something" to trigger the noise blast...
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It's always in airplane mode since I removed the SIM card. Although I have to have WiFi enabled so that I can get my iPhone and iPad mini to wirelessly connect.
Removing the SIM has nothing to do with airplane mode, nor do you need the WiFi enabled on the docked iPad to allow another iPad or an iPhone to connect wirelessly to the router you plugged into the DL1608.
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iBloke
Have you contacted the store you purchased from.
As this played up almost immediately they really should replace it or refund your money.
Don't wait too long otherwise they will only be obligated to repair it.
I really hope it works out for you.
Cheers
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It's always in airplane mode since I removed the SIM card. Although I have to have WiFi enabled so that I can get my iPhone and iPad mini to wirelessly connect.
Removing the SIM has nothing to do with airplane mode, nor do you need the WiFi enabled on the docked iPad to allow another iPad or an iPhone to connect wirelessly to the router you plugged into the DL1608.
Yes that's true. The docked iPad shouldn't need to have Wifi enabled to make it possible for other iPads/iPhones to connect wirelessly.
But the reality was that nothing else worked yesterday so I tried connecting the docked iPad to the wireless network. After doing that, my other ios devices were successful in also connecting wirelessly.
My suspicion is that my dlink router may have something to do with this. It's always been a stubborn bitch of a thing but at the time I bought it, it was the only option available to me to get internet to my shed which is about 50 metres from my house.
It is one of those routers that send and receive the www through the electrical wires. My shed has a sub board which connects to my house electricity supply so the internet travels through that.
I live way out in the sticks and my closest apple store, or apple products retailer are about 80 km away.
My plan is to purchase an apple airport express to use solely for the DL. I suspect it will work better than the dlink.
Oh and the only reason I have airplane mode enabled is because I like the picture of an airplane in the top left corner rather than "no SIM"
The SIM that used to live in the iPad 3 now lives in my iPad mini which goes everywhere with me.
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iBloke
Have you contacted the store you purchased from.
As this played up almost immediately they really should replace it or refund your money.
Don't wait too long otherwise they will only be obligated to repair it.
I really hope it works out for you.
Cheers
Not yet.
I have sent a bug report to mackie though.
The shop I bought the DL from has stores in Melbourne (110 km away) Perth, Sydney, and Adelaide.
My DL was sent from Adelaide (over 2000 km away) because none of the others had a 30 pin dock connector model. Only lightning.
I have to phone the Melbourne store today or tomorra to speak to the bloke who took my original order. He's been pretty cool to deal with it the past.
My iPad 3 has just finished restoring to factory specs and I've synced music accross, and downloaded the mackie app.
I'm about to try it in the DL again.
Before I did all that it only did the WN blast once today. It was playing music perfectly until I touched the "bass guitar" channel I have setup in a show for one of my regular bands.
As soon as I touched the graphic of the bass channel the white noise happened.
But then as soon as I exited the bass channel to hit the mute button on the iPad channel the white noise stopped by itself.
This thing has a mind of its own! ::)
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Just plugged my fully restored to new settings iPad 3
Loaded up the mackie app, started to music app, back to the mackie app and set iPad channel volume.
Once again as soon as I touched the settings graphic at the top of another channel the white noise started, but this time I had to force close the mackie app to make it stop.
There seems to be no consistency to the cause of the white noise blast.
Sending an email to StoreDJ now...
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I tried ringing the store, but they must be ultra busy coz nobody answered the phone.
So I've just sent an email off to Phill who is the bloke that took my original order.
My communications with him lead me to think of him as a decent bloke who I'd be happy to share a beer with.
This is the email I sent..
"G'day Phill.
I hate to have to do this but since receiving my new mackie I've had many many instances of the same problem.
The problem being a LOUD and continuous blast of white noise from the iPad channel while playing music from the docked iPad.
Google searches show that it is a well documented issue, however most of the people reporting the issue have it occur on rare occasions.
Mine has done it more times than I can count since receiving it.
Yes, I can plug an iPod into channels 15&16 and reliably supply "set break" music .. But that permanently takes up 2 channels effectively leaving me with a 14 channel mixer.
If mackie provide a dedicated iPad music playback channel that allows me to use all 16 XLR inputs then I expect it to work.
My 27 year reputation has been built on not only reliability of service, but also reliability of the gear I supply.
This mackie mixer is proving to not be something I can rely on, and has the potential to embarrass me.
If you have the time and interest you can follow this saga as it pans out on the cacophony Internet forum where I've been posting my findings. http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=687.msg6654#msg6654
I have already sent a "bug report" directly to mackie, but from what I understand they are already aware of this problem. Although I haven't found any reports of it happening as often as I've experienced it.
I apologised to you for my "burnt out old live sound engineer grumpiness", but this particular issue has me getting progressively more prickly, as you can probably understand.
I've spoken to you via email and on the phone and my impressions are that you're a pretty decent Bloke. I'd have a beer with you no problems :)
But right now I'm not sure how much more I can take of this particular problem, even though I can bypass it.
It's made me extremely uneasy about doing my first gig with it. I really don't have any faith in its overall reliability.
And the main reason for me buying it was to be able to leave my big heavy, and awkward analogue mixer and gear at home.
Now it looks like I'll need to bring that with me as well as the mackie, just in case the mackie shits in my face.
Regards
Phil
p.s. We have 3 iPads with 30 pin connectors. The white noise issue is there with all three so I'm convinced it's a mackie/apple software issue (?)
Sent from my iThingo"
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Mate here are some thoughts on your problem. Contact Ben Olswang at Mackie and offer your unit to his engineers since they seem to have difficulty reproducing the condition..
Ok so I've been trying to find an email contact for Ben but Google has found me nothing.
I've already sent a bug report to mackie, but it was directed at nobody in particular.
I'll try benolswang@mackie.com but after that I'm outa ideas..
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ben.olswang@mackie.com should get his attention.
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I ran both iPads for 3-4 hours yesterday playing music through the iPad channel (iPad3/iOS6, iPad2/iOs7) with no sign of white noise or permanent loss of sync (either may have glitched out momentarily but without interrupting playback, I wasn't glued to the screen...). I've just updated the iPad2 to iOS7.1.2 and will run another test later though it will be unsupervised so will only show permanent white noise. If that's ok I'll try to induce the problem by playing with the GEQs and so on.
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Yours is a bit of a different setup than most all of us as you have an iPad with the cellular modem. Any chance of borrowing a WiFi-only iPad to see if the problem goes away? I still find it hard to believe that the noise isn't coming from the iPad...
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The reason that the iPad is the least likely source of the white noise is that all the music docking stations would have similar problems, none are reported AFAIK. It's easy enough to test when the noise happens un-dock the iPad and listen. Does the local speaker have noise or music? Re-docking as I recollect does not switch back to the DL. Mackie engineering should have a USB packet sniffer as part of their setup and would easily be able to identify the problem and it's source. In my book the problem is with the DL.
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Ran the iPad2/iOS7.1.2 for several hours this arvo and played with MF PEQ and GEQ while playing, no problem.
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The path from the MP3 to the output of the DL is all digital - the only place I can think of where white noise is generated is in the MP3 decoder which is in the iPad. How could the DL possibly generate white noise unintentionally? But it's all idle speculation anyways LOL.
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Who said anything about MP3 it could be any number of other formats that music player can handle. Yes it's a digital path to the DL via a pseudo USB path with hopefully CRC checks, but then it could be subjected to paths even through the DSP's and finally out to the D/A converter of the DL. Lots of places to go awry. We don't know the content of the noise, a recording of this might be quite informative.
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Who said anything about MP3 it could be any number of other formats that music player can handle.
Whatever, same diff unless it's a lossless format.Yes it's a digital path to the DL via a pseudo USB path with hopefully CRC checks, but then it could be subjected to paths even through the DSP's and finally out to the D/A converter of the DL. Lots of places to go awry.
But not generate white noise - that's a very specific thing. Not something that digital stuff does naturally. The decoders for compressed formats DO generate white noise to "fill in" missing/lost high frequency content.
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We don't know what the spectral content of the noise is, I unfortunately can't get mine to sing to me (might be worth more in resale ;D ) it only drops sync with prodding. Unfortunately the overwhelming results of other dock setups such as Alesis and Behringer etc. would demonstrate the same results.
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The major difference between the DL and other docks is that you play the music in the background while another app (Master Fader) is in the foreground. On the other docks the playing app is most likely in the foreground.
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Really grasping at straws are we?
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BTW I only playback 128Kbps MP3's and have never had the problem - I wonder if those seeing the issue are playing higher bitrates or a different compression like Apple's MP4s?
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ben.olswang@mackie.com should get his attention.
Thanks for that. I've just sent this email off to him.
"G'day Ben
I've currently owned my DL1608 for 4 days.
I don't have any gigs for a few weeks so I've had it set up in my shed/man cave and have been learning all it's operations which I'm quite enjoying. Very well thought out operating system. So firstly Thankyou for that.
My problem is that when any of my docked iPads are playing music though the iPad channel I get random blasts of white noise. Very loud!
It's happened countless times.
My main iPad is the third version and has been used both with iOS 7.1.1 and also iOS 7.1.2 which I updated to yesterday to see if that would stop the white noise.
Unfortunately it is still randomly blasting white noise and there doesn't seem to be any particular event that triggers it.
This has me VERY concerned about the overall reliability of the DL.
I'm 52 years old and have been working in the live music industry for about 27 years.
I have a good reputation for delivering a great service, and reliable equipment.
I know Mackie is aware of this issue, and my question is the likelihood of a resolution sometime soon with a bug fix in the software/firmware?
Regards
Phil"
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Yours is a bit of a different setup than most all of us as you have an iPad with the cellular modem. Any chance of borrowing a WiFi-only iPad to see if the problem goes away? I still find it hard to believe that the noise isn't coming from the iPad...
Already did that. The other two iPads are WiFi only ipad 2's
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The reason that the iPad is the least likely source of the white noise is that all the music docking stations would have similar problems, none are reported AFAIK. It's easy enough to test when the noise happens un-dock the iPad and listen. Does the local speaker have noise or music?
Yep removing the iPad didn't stop the noise when I tried that.
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I've been on the phone with the selling store and Phill is going to exchange it. They don't have any in stock right now, but he's sent me a return authorisation so that if I send it off to them tomorra it should arrive about the same time as their new replacement stock arrives.
Fingers crossed the replacement is a good one.
Fargen mackie... ::)
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Oh and I forgot to say it's becoming a real PITA using the dlink router I have. It has a switch on it the either makes it an "access point" or "router"
To use the internet in the shed it needs to be set to "access point" and to use it with the mackie it needs to be set to "router".
Bitch of a thing to get working properly for the mackie.
I need a wireless connection in my shed because the walls and roof are corrugated iron which almost kills 3G and 4G on my iPads, iPhone.
I think I'll buy an apple airport express to use with the mackie.
I've never used apple Airplay before. Is it possible and reliable to steam music from my iPhone to the airport so that it plays through the mackie via the Ethernet cable?
If that's a good option then it probably won't matter so much if my replacement DL still has the white noise issue.
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I've separated the IPad single channel into 2 separate iPad channels and panned the music left and right.
So far I haven't had an incident of white noise since doing this....
Interesting..
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The reason that the iPad is the least likely source of the white noise is that all the music docking stations would have similar problems, none are reported AFAIK. It's easy enough to test when the noise happens un-dock the iPad and listen. Does the local speaker have noise or music?
Yep removing the iPad didn't stop the noise when I tried that.
OK was the noise out of the DL or out of the iPad's built-in speakers?
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I've never used apple Airplay before. Is it possible and reliable to steam music from my iPhone to the airport so that it plays through the mackie via the Ethernet cable?
If that's a good option then it probably won't matter so much if my replacement DL still has the white noise issue.
Unfortunately it provides unbalanced 3.5mm stereo out of the Air Express which you need to input to the DL's 13-16 TS in case you need phantom pwr. No audio over Ethernet.
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The reason that the iPad is the least likely source of the white noise is that all the music docking stations would have similar problems, none are reported AFAIK. It's easy enough to test when the noise happens un-dock the iPad and listen. Does the local speaker have noise or music?
Yep removing the iPad didn't stop the noise when I tried that.
OK was the noise out of the DL or out of the iPad's built-in speakers?
The noise was out of the PA, not the iPad speakers. I shut it down really quickly coz it was waaaay loud.
Odd thing is it hasn't happens again for the past cuppla hours. That's the longest this DL has functioned correctly so far.
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I've never used apple Airplay before. Is it possible and reliable to steam music from my iPhone to the airport so that it plays through the mackie via the Ethernet cable?
If that's a good option then it probably won't matter so much if my replacement DL still has the white noise issue.
Unfortunately it provides unbalanced 3.5mm stereo out of the Air Express which you need to input to the DL's 13-16 TS in case you need phantom pwr. No audio over Ethernet.
Ok. That's disappointing. I was hoping I wouldn't lose channel 15 & 16.
Might still buy one just for the convenience of not having to deal with this stubborn dlink router. Awful thing!
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I've just been on the phone with a bloke from CMI who are the Aussie distributors of mackie stuff.
He assured me he has never heard of the "white noise from the docked iPad channel" problem before.
No surprises there. It's pretty much the same answer given by any company who's products quality issues get questioned.
Anyway he's going to be in contact again with the store that sold me my mackie shit box DL1608.
It never ceases to amaze me that an issue like this that I've read so many posts on Internet forums about isn't acknowledged by manufacturers, importers and retailers.
It's almost insulting ..
Should I have bought it in the first place, having the knowledge of this issue?
Maybe not. But I took a punt on getting a good one.
I lost that roll of the dice.
Hopefully the next one will be good, or there'll be a refund required and I'll go back to the good old tried and proven Allen & Heath/DBX analogue gear.
Back breakingly heavy for an old fart like me. But so far 100% reliable.
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I've never used apple Airplay before. Is it possible and reliable to steam music from my iPhone to the airport so that it plays through the mackie via the Ethernet cable?
If that's a good option then it probably won't matter so much if my replacement DL still has the white noise issue.
Unfortunately it provides unbalanced 3.5mm stereo out of the Air Express which you need to input to the DL's 13-16 TS in case you need phantom pwr. No audio over Ethernet.
iBloke - i am pretty sure air tunes only works with an apple router - so an Air Express is a good option.
I am using air tunes more and more as it allows you to control the music from where every you are in the room (as opposed to having to hit start and stop on the docked ipad).
I hope your replacement DL works great!
CHeers
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Excellent we can now state that the problem of white noise resides within the DL, not the iPad.
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I've never used apple Airplay before. Is it possible and reliable to steam music from my iPhone to the airport so that it plays through the mackie via the Ethernet cable?
If that's a good option then it probably won't matter so much if my replacement DL still has the white noise issue.
Unfortunately it provides unbalanced 3.5mm stereo out of the Air Express which you need to input to the DL's 13-16 TS in case you need phantom pwr. No audio over Ethernet.
iBloke - i am pretty sure air tunes only works with an apple router - so an Air Express is a good option.
I am using air tunes more and more as it allows you to control the music from where every you are in the room (as opposed to having to hit start and stop on the docked ipad).
I hope your replacement DL works great!
CHeers
Yes but I still need to "waste" 2 channels on the mixer to plug a stereo cable in.
It would be nice to control air tunes remotely though..
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Excellent we can now state that the problem of white noise resides within the DL, not the iPad.
I hadn't tried that experiment the first cuppla days because when I docked my iPad I instantly installed the iPad locking thingo, so I wasn't able to just slide the it in and out.
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Well it's clear now that a DL that generated white noise was disconnected from the iPad and the DL continued to produce noise. :thu: iBloke. This means that DL code needs to be fixed. There are however several issues not connected with each other and that is loss of sync. The serial communication with Mackie's Mandolin protocol needs to also be fixed. Why didn't you offer Ben your unit it could be quite useful to Mackie. At least retain the serial # so they can get it if they want. Ben's answer should be quite telling. Love to read it.
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Two things about airplay. Last Friday, I had problems using my iphone 4S (2.4 Ghz only) I had drops and stops while using it. I'm assuming this was a location issue because I've never had that issue anywhere else and my ipads which are communicating on 5 Ghz didn't have the same issue. I didn't look to see if there were too many devices running the same frequency. (Would need to bring my MacBook.) On the other hand, no white noise at any time doing it that way. (Not that I've had that issue before. I haven't.) Got to admit that it's pretty neat being able to start the music from any of my ios devices. (It locks onto the first airplay connection and to change devices, you need to disconnect the first device before connecting the next device. Shouldn't really cause any problems.)
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Wynnd, you don't get the white noise issue when using airplay. The issue is when the iPad is docked.
If anyone read my earlier post you will see that it's not just a Mackie dl thing.
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Wynnd, duh. You don't get the white noise issue when using airplay. The issue is when the iPad is docked.
If anyone read my earlier post you will see that it's not just a Mackie dl thing.
Yes Mackie doesn't have the market on poor software others follow. Yes Airplay is convenient, No it's not reliable.
http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20060512044141904
There are however too many other products without the problem to ignore.
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Excellent we can now state that the problem of white noise resides within the DL, not the iPad.
Yup, you win ;) . Although I still can't imagine what in the DL could possibly generate something that sounds like white noise accidentally?
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OK let's work backwards. The output drivers are feed by the D/A, any continuously bad data can certainly produce the noise. We still don't know the spectral content of the noise, a 5-10sec recording would shed some light on it. Big hint here iBloke :). The next stop up the chain is the DSP and it's processing of the signal, any bad pointer to the data can certainly produce strange noise. The ARM most likely gave the DSP the data location. Then we get to the USB packets received from the iPad with valid CRC and Ack's a less likely place to have problems without the iPad picking up on that. That's assuming there is some protocol check. Yes a simplification but it identifies the potential players. Now for the Vegas assessment. uLinux written in C or C+, drivers written by Mackie so my money rides on a pointer problem either overwritten or otherwise in a flat memory model. ;D
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Ok, so I don't understand any of the technical jargon..in fact I'm pretty clueless with anything more complex than soldering different value capacitors to the volume pots on my guitars to try and achieve an even roll off of sound when turn the vol up and down.
Anyway the experiments have continued and like I said earlier there doesn't appear to be any particular event that triggers the noise.
There is also no particular event that shuts it off .. Although force closing either iTunes, master fader, or both will stop the issue.
And now that I don't have to iPad locking tail piece in place anymore I can slide the iPad in and out when I feel like it.
More often than not that will stop the noise, but not everytime. And sometimes when I reinsert the iPad I'll need to force close both apps to get things working properly again.
Completely random.
I'm going to get google to find me some info on cleaning dock connectors. It's something I've never done, apart from the usual lint removal procedure that seems to come with USB, game boy, MacBook power connectors etc.
I don't however know what is safe to use to clean possible tarnish or oxide off those teensy tiny little pins.
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I can understand some of the results your getting, for instance when you have noise and you pull the iPad if the DL is still functioning properly in communications it should stop the noise but at other times that control is gone. If you could record about 10 sec of noise out of L or R, doesn't have to be earsplitting I could look at the spectral content and it may give us more info. Did Ben ever get back to you?
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I haven't used the record function yet so I'll give that a try today.
No reply from my first email bug report to Mackie.
No reply from Ben either.
But from all I've read about mackie's current "customer service" I'm not holding my breath.
They got my money, so now they don't give a toss.
I'm just very grateful the shop I bought it from is looking after me. Decent people :)
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For recording you can't use the iPad/DL it needs to be out of the DL's L or R outputs onto another device. This thing can't walk and chew gum at the same time. It's either playback or record. We of course want it in playback to produce the noise.
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For recording you can't use the iPad/DL it needs to be out of the DL's L or R outputs onto another device. This thing can't walk and chew gum at the same time. It's either playback or record. We of course want it in playback to produce the noise.
Bugger! Sorry I can't record anything for ya then. I haven't used a cassette deck this century, and the 3 old ones I have are stuffed. Some of the little wheels don't turn in 'em anymore.
Yes I know I'm a sound engineer and maybe I "should" have some way of recording audio, but the reality is I don't go anywhere near studio recording.
And 100% of the bands I work for own at least one of those little Zoom recording devices that they either plug into the RCA outs on my A&H (that ain't gonna be possible anymore with the DL), or they just sit it somewhere in the venue and record through the built in mics.
Sorry man :(
p.s. You've been very helpful and supportive during this saga and I appreciate that. Cheers.
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I've used some alcohol and a thin piece of clean cotton to swab the dock connector on one of the iPad 2's and inserted, removed, inserted etc a few times to help the alcohol residue clean not only the iPad dock pins, but also the ones on the mackie.
Swapped iPads around a few more times and I had a glimmer of hope that the white noise had vanished for a while.
Nup. It reared its head again...and again.
I'm over doing anymore experiments now and have just plugged an iPod into channels 15 & 16 so I can listen to uninterrupted music.
The only other thing that has bugged me a bit since I got this POS is how much "Hiss" there is with nothing plugged in. It really is the hissyest MoFo of a mixer I've ever heard!
I've used briefly a yamaha O1V in the past while the main sound guy went for a piss. I chucked the headphones on for a listen and I don't remember hearing such a .. umm.. "Cacophony" of background hiss. :D
And because I'm sitting right next to it while I'm typing and reading on my iPad mini I've been noticing how often the docked iPad loses sync. Quite a regular occurrence.
Has anybody else noticed the regular dropped sync issue?
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I've noticed the preamps get hissy in the last few dBs of gain so keep all unused channels gains at zero. Otherwise the desk is quiet and very good sounding. The sync dropping issue is well documented here http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=498.0 (http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=498.0). I haven't had a problem that I'm aware of though but I don't sit staring at the docked iPad, just go and adjust if required. Mine is an older DL though bought in Nov 2012.
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I've got a plan in place if the next POS dl1608 jerks me around too.
I can still have access to all 16 channels by patching my A&H ZED10 inline and plugging an iPad into that.
It still means taking a second mixer to gigs that I'll need all 16 channels on the pos mackie but at least ill be able to confidently trust the reliability of the A&H , and it also means I'll have a backup mixer to at least get me through the gig when the mackie shits itself completely (my gut feeling says it probably will)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/geetar%20stuff/ea835a0052e5ae3503aeb557004b0071_zps6f147fb7.jpg)
I know it's not a big number, but 2 of my live sound colleagues were waiting for my feedback before buying their own mackie DL
Both have been completely turned off after my experience. One of them stated they always knew mackie made "shit gear" and my predicament confirmed his beliefs.
The 3 of us have been looooong term Allen & Heath users and have had very little problem with the brand.
They are both holding off now to save up a few more $$ for the A&H QU-16
I'll probably follow in the future (depending on industry demand), and permanently wash my hands of mackie crap. Lesson learnt.
And just to clarify this is not my only experience with mackie gear. I've done a few walk ins where the PA & lights are in house.
Not unusual to find a mackie mixer. I don't remember liking them. Long time ago but I don't have specific memories of enjoyment using mackie branded gear.
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I've noticed the preamps get hissy in the last few dBs of gain so keep all unused channels gains at zero. Otherwise the desk is quiet and very good sounding. The sync dropping issue is well documented here http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=498.0 (http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=498.0). I haven't had a problem that I'm aware of though but I don't sit staring at the docked iPad, just go and adjust if required. Mine is an older DL though bought in Nov 2012.
I'm happy for you to have not had any problems.
I'm also glad you think "the desk is quiet and very good sounding"
There was a post earlier in this thread stating something about A&H preamps (?) sounding bad at clipping levels (I never run input gains that high anyway) but I've done some side by side comparisons and I can't tell any meaningful difference in distortion. But at least both my A&H mixers do it without the ridiculous levels of "HISSSSS" the mackie makes.
Thanks for the link. I'll go and read that right now. Cheers :)
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I haven't had a problem that I'm aware of though but I don't sit staring at the docked iPad.
I also "don't sit staring at the docked iPad"
But my PA is my stereo system between gigs and the mackie sits on the table right next to the iPad mini I use to internet browse and post these responses on.
The re-sync pop-up occurs a lot and is very obvious. I spend hours nearly everyday in my shed and see the re-sync occur a LOT even though I have the docked iPad set to never screen lock.
It's awake all the time until I manually lock it and shut down the whole system.
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The excessive hiss you are experiencing leads me further to believe you have a bad one there, I used mine recently on fairly high profile gig with a name folk band. The band's (pro) sound engineer was running the mix on my DL and the 'good sounding' comment was his. Also many others, both amateurs and pros, musos and noise boys, have made similar comments.
If you replacement DL has the same issues as this one I'll conclude that Mackie are allowing substandard units into the marketplace (which I suspect may be the case). It is known that the Chinese factories will substitute cheaper components to increase their profits while the client's (in this case Mackie's QC guys) back is turned leading to duff units getting through to the public. This doesn't excuse Mackie's failure to rectify the problems and, like you, I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with Mackie even though my DL is just fine. I doubt I'll buy another Mackie mixer when upgrade time comes along.
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Hi iBloke,
I don't recall reading about anyone having the white noise problem that wasn't playing music on the docked iPad. So for mission critical jobs you'd be best off not to play music on the docked iPad (yeah I know you should be able to - but a blast of white noise at full volume is not going to get you a return booking).
I'll also can't recall anybody saying their DL died midway through a gig.
Having said all that, I alway carry a back up mixer (and did even when I had analogue desks).
Man, I hope you end up working all this out.
There really isn't another option in the same price bracket as the DL except for the PreSonus 16.0.2 but it doesn't really have 16 channels and you need a laptop and modem to wireless mix on an iPad.
Good luck mate.
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The nearest thing to the DL at the price is Jerry Lee's beloved X32 Rack and that's a couple of hundred quid dearer in the UK (DL~£750, X32R~£928). The X32 Producer is only £970 so that's where I'd put my money if I was starting again.
I'm not sure iBloke would trust Behringer anymore than Mackie though, I wouldn't have done until recently, I have done a lot of research over the last year.
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The nearest thing to the DL at the price is Jerry Lee's beloved X32 Rack and that's a couple of hundred quid dearer in the UK (DL~£750, X32R~£928). The X32 Producer is only £970 so that's where I'd put my money if I was starting again.
More than double the price I paid for my DL here in Australia.
I'm not sure iBloke would trust Behringer anymore than Mackie though, I wouldn't have done until recently, I have done a lot of research over the last year.
I would now throw mackie gear into the same basket as Behringer. Cheap rubbish. Ya get what ya pay for.
My opinion is mackie is the new cheap, nasty, and flawed "Behringer of old".
Get lucky and score a good one? Cool!
But don't be surprised if ya get a POS.
I'll put this experience down to "Live and learn"
p.s. I've not only used a bunch of other peoples Behringer gear, but also own several 100% reliable, and reasonably ok sounding Behringer products.
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Hi iBloke,
I don't recall reading about anyone having the white noise problem that wasn't playing music on the docked iPad.
White noise blast was the only "issue" I saw reported regularly during my research period. But none as often as I've experienced.
But yeah, no problems at all with plugging music straight into the mixer channels.
Shouldn't have to though. The iPad channel is supplied, and it should work reliably.
I'll also can't recall anybody saying their DL died midway through a gig.
I did. It was rare and was resolved by a quick reboot of everything, and the show went on. Not ideal. But shit like that can happen at any gig especially out here in the sticks where the power supply can fluctuate enough to cause a "brown out". Analogue gear tends to take that in its stride. But digital gear chucks a major wobbly.
Having said all that, I alway carry a back up mixer (and did even when I had analogue desks).
I specifically bought this thing so I could leave all my heavy awkward analogue stuff at home. Less work for a broken down, arthritic old fart like me.
Man, I hope you end up working all this out.
There really isn't another option in the same price bracket as the DL except for the PreSonus 16.0.2 but it doesn't really have 16 channels and you need a laptop and modem to wireless mix on an iPad.
I hope it works out too. 4 weeks till my next gig so no pressure yet.
I have zero interest in the presonus for the reasons you mention. Plus it cost a few $100 mire than I paid for the mackie.
Good luck mate.
Thankyou. I think I'm gonna need it
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The problem is that most of the kit is made in the same Chinese manufacturing facilities with the same variable attitude to QC. Time will tell but Behringer have built their own factory and manned it with their own management/tech/QC team to get around the problem. I suspect A&H, Mackie, JBL, et al use the same bunch of factories and the quality of the product will depend as much on how frequently the client's QC guys visit as any other factor. `If the white noise issue is a HW problem and earlier DL's seem ok (anybody out there got the problem with an older DL?) that suggests a change of spec on newer ones may be causing the problem. If it's a SW/FW issue then the older desks should be just as susceptible.
Whichever way, I'll add mine to Fluddman's good luck.
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For recording you can't use the iPad/DL it needs to be out of the DL's L or R outputs onto another device. This thing can't walk and chew gum at the same time. It's either playback or record. We of course want it in playback to produce the noise.
Bugger! Sorry I can't record anything for ya then. I haven't used a cassette deck this century, and the 3 old ones I have are stuffed. Some of the little wheels don't turn in 'em anymore.
Yes I know I'm a sound engineer and maybe I "should" have some way of recording audio, but the reality is I don't go anywhere near studio recording.
And 100% of the bands I work for own at least one of those little Zoom recording devices that they either plug into the RCA outs on my A&H (that ain't gonna be possible anymore with the DL), or they just sit it somewhere in the venue and record through the built in mics.
Sorry man :(
p.s. You've been very helpful and supportive during this saga and I appreciate that. Cheers.
I'll take a Zoom recording if you would, just wanted to eliminate as much of the frequency mods (like speakers) as possible. It would still be telling. Besides what better way to let the rest of the world know what a Mackie DL sounds like ;D. I forgot you have multiple iPads so just use VoiceRecord or some other program that will let you get at the sound file for recording. No need to borrow Zoom's. Then there are iPhones etc. recorders galore. The word your looking for is tenacity, no worries man :).
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My Chinese built MixWiz that I bought new in 2008 was flawless the entire time I owned it. It has gone on to a Colorado Springs Country band and should serve them well. (They have a video linked here that has gotten good reviews.) I don't know how A&H is doing things today, but back then, they had a solid product.
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Just a reminder that the DL1608 is assembled in Mexico, not China.
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AFAIK the board sub-assemblies are made in China then sent to Mexico for assembly and test. Remember this is a bean counter product, max profits while you can. Part of that "big sucking sound" described by Ross Perot for those that remember.
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My Chinese built MixWiz that I bought new in 2008 was flawless the entire time I owned it. It has gone on to a Colorado Springs Country band and should serve them well. (They have a video linked here that has gotten good reviews.) I don't know how A&H is doing things today, but back then, they had a solid product.
I'm more than happy with the two recent purchases I made from A&H. Both flawless in build and operation, new firmware just released too adding some great new features.
Like my perfectly working DL, I'm getting more than what I (happily) paid for :)
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Hi Robbocurry,
I am absolutely loving my Qu24 too!
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Hi Robbocurry,
I am absolutely loving my Qu24 too!
I'm thinking I shoulda held out for a few months longer and gone with the A&H QU too..
At last that's what 2 of my collegues are doing now they are aware of the problem with my first mackie product.
On a more positive note, I picked up my replacement DL today and have had it running for about 30 mins.
So far so good...but I best not jinx myself before giving it a damn good shake down for at the very least a few hours...
The other glaring thing with the new replacement is there is hardly any "Hiss", well at least no more than you would expect from a decent bit of audio gear.
It's MUCH quieter than the first DL which was one of the hissiest pieces of audio gear I've ever owned!
And I've sent a 30 second recording of the white noise from the first DL to WK154 who is delving into it further than my limited technical talents allow.
I've very much appreciated his help via private messages and emails.
Down here in Australia we would refer to him as a Top Bloke!
Thanks mate :)
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Waiting on a reply from Mackie on the results. Thanks again for the work on your part. Hope the new DL will behave better.
No worries mate. :thu:
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There is a very good chance that the white noise problem is the same root cause as the 30 pin extension cable problems and docked iPad losing synch problem: noise in the DL's iPad charging circuit.
I believe that I saw the white noise problem about 18 months ago, when I was trying to get a 30pin extension cable to work. It sounded like the output from my RTA was on, which really threw me for a loop until I realized that it was coming from the iPad. I havent had the problem since, so I had pretty much forgot about it. Recent findings by WK154 and Roadrunner make me fairly sure that this problem is just another symptom of the same root cause, namely a noisy iPad fast charge circuit on the DL.
Luckily there are a couple of workarounds, which is probably why I never saw it again after 18 months ago:
a) if you have a newish iPad, fully charge it before each gig and dont dock it if the battery charge is below 90 percent. That keeps the DL's charge circuit in trickle charge mode. If the DL's charge circuit switches over to fast charge mode, it gets noisy and random bad things can happen
b) if you have an older iPad with a faded battery, you might need to get a cheap 30 pin extension cable and cut the 5v power line from the DL. Use the cable to dock your iPad. That takes the DL's noisy circuit out of the picture completely as well as allows you to put a protective case on your iPad. Read posts from WK154 and Soundog in the 30pin extension thread for more info