The mackie dl1608 white noise saga! (A new member, who has been a lurker)

[iBloke]

I've used some alcohol and a thin piece of clean cotton to swab the dock connector on one of the iPad 2's and inserted, removed, inserted etc a few times to help the alcohol residue clean not only the iPad dock pins, but also the ones on the mackie.

Swapped iPads around a few more times and I had a glimmer of hope that the white noise had vanished for a while.

Nup. It reared its head again...and again.

I'm over doing anymore experiments now and have just plugged an iPod into channels 15 & 16 so I can listen to uninterrupted music.

The only other thing that has bugged me a bit since I got this POS is how much "Hiss" there is with nothing plugged in. It really is the hissyest MoFo of a mixer I've ever heard!

I've used briefly a yamaha O1V in the past while the main sound guy went for a piss. I chucked the headphones on for a listen and I don't remember hearing such a .. umm.. "Cacophony" of background hiss.

And because I'm sitting right next to it while I'm typing and reading on my iPad mini I've been noticing how often the docked iPad loses sync. Quite a regular occurrence.

Has anybody else noticed the regular dropped sync issue?

[sam.spoons]

I've noticed the preamps get hissy in the last few dBs of gain so keep all unused channels gains at zero. Otherwise the desk is quiet and very good sounding. The sync dropping issue is well documented here http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=498.0. I haven't had a problem that I'm aware of though but I don't sit staring at the docked iPad, just go and adjust if required. Mine is an older DL though bought in Nov 2012.

[iBloke]

I've got a plan in place if the next POS dl1608 jerks me around too.

I can still have access to all 16 channels by patching my A&H ZED10 inline and plugging an iPad into that.

It still means taking a second mixer to gigs that I'll need all 16 channels on the pos mackie but at least ill be able to confidently trust the reliability of the A&H , and it also means I'll have a backup mixer to at least get me through the gig when the mackie shits itself completely (my gut feeling says it probably will)



I know it's not a big number, but 2 of my live sound colleagues were waiting for my feedback before buying their own mackie DL
Both have been completely turned off after my experience. One of them stated they always knew mackie made "shit gear" and my predicament confirmed his beliefs.
The 3 of us have been looooong term Allen & Heath users and have had very little problem with the brand.

They are both holding off now to save up a few more $$ for the A&H QU-16

I'll probably follow in the future (depending on industry demand), and permanently wash my hands of mackie crap. Lesson learnt.

And just to clarify this is not my only experience with mackie gear. I've done a few walk ins where the PA & lights are in house.
Not unusual to find a mackie mixer. I don't remember liking them. Long time ago but I don't have specific memories of enjoyment using mackie branded gear.

[iBloke]

I've noticed the preamps get hissy in the last few dBs of gain so keep all unused channels gains at zero. Otherwise the desk is quiet and very good sounding. The sync dropping issue is well documented here http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=498.0. I haven't had a problem that I'm aware of though but I don't sit staring at the docked iPad, just go and adjust if required. Mine is an older DL though bought in Nov 2012.

I'm happy for you to have not had any problems.
I'm also glad you think "the desk is quiet and very good sounding"
There was a post earlier in this thread stating something about A&H preamps (?) sounding bad at clipping levels (I never run input gains that high anyway) but I've done some side by side comparisons and I can't tell any meaningful difference in distortion. But at least both my A&H mixers do it without the ridiculous levels of "HISSSSS" the mackie makes.

Thanks for the link. I'll go and read that right now. Cheers

[iBloke]

I haven't had a problem that I'm aware of though but I don't sit staring at the docked iPad.

I also "don't sit staring at the docked iPad"
But my PA is my stereo system between gigs and the mackie sits on the table right next to the iPad mini I use to internet browse and post these responses on.

The re-sync pop-up occurs a lot and is very obvious. I spend hours nearly everyday in my shed and see the re-sync occur a LOT even though I have the docked iPad set to never screen lock.
It's awake all the time until I manually lock it and shut down the whole system.

[sam.spoons]

The excessive hiss you are experiencing leads me further to believe you have a bad one there, I used mine recently on fairly high profile gig with a name folk band. The band's (pro) sound engineer was running the mix on my DL and the 'good sounding' comment was his. Also many others, both amateurs and pros, musos and noise boys, have made similar comments.

If you replacement DL has the same issues as this one I'll conclude that Mackie are allowing substandard units into the marketplace (which I suspect may be the case). It is known that the Chinese factories will substitute cheaper components to increase their profits while the client's (in this case Mackie's QC guys) back is turned leading to duff units getting through to the public. This doesn't excuse Mackie's failure to rectify the problems and, like you, I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with Mackie even though my DL is just fine. I doubt I'll buy another Mackie mixer when upgrade time comes along.

[Fluddman]

Hi iBloke,

I don't recall reading about anyone having the white noise problem that wasn't playing music on the docked iPad. So for mission critical jobs you'd be best off not to play music on the docked iPad (yeah I know you should be able to - but a blast of white noise at full volume is not going to get you a return booking).

I'll also can't recall anybody saying their DL died midway through a gig.

Having said all that, I alway carry a back up mixer (and did even when I had analogue desks).

Man, I hope you end up working all this out.

There really isn't another option in the same price bracket as the DL except for the PreSonus 16.0.2 but it doesn't really have 16 channels and you need a laptop and modem to wireless mix on an iPad.

Good luck mate.

[sam.spoons]

The nearest thing to the DL at the price is Jerry Lee's beloved X32 Rack and that's a couple of hundred quid dearer in the UK (DL~£750, X32R~£928). The X32 Producer is only £970 so that's where I'd put my money if I was starting again.

I'm not sure iBloke would trust Behringer anymore than Mackie though, I wouldn't have done until recently, I have done a lot of research over the last year.

[iBloke]

The nearest thing to the DL at the price is Jerry Lee's beloved X32 Rack and that's a couple of hundred quid dearer in the UK (DL~£750, X32R~£928). The X32 Producer is only £970 so that's where I'd put my money if I was starting again.

More than double the price I paid for my DL here in Australia.

I'm not sure iBloke would trust Behringer anymore than Mackie though, I wouldn't have done until recently, I have done a lot of research over the last year.

I would now throw mackie gear into the same basket as Behringer. Cheap rubbish. Ya get what ya pay for.
My opinion is mackie is the new cheap, nasty, and flawed "Behringer of old".
Get lucky and score a good one? Cool!
But don't be surprised if ya get a POS.

I'll put this experience down to "Live and learn"

p.s. I've not only used a bunch of other peoples Behringer gear, but also own several 100% reliable, and reasonably ok sounding Behringer products.

[iBloke]

Hi iBloke,

I don't recall reading about anyone having the white noise problem that wasn't playing music on the docked iPad.

White noise blast was the only "issue" I saw reported regularly during my research period. But none as often as I've experienced.
But yeah, no problems at all with plugging music straight into the mixer channels.
Shouldn't have to though. The iPad channel is supplied, and it should work reliably.

I'll also can't recall anybody saying their DL died midway through a gig.

I did. It was rare and was resolved by a quick reboot of everything, and the show went on. Not ideal. But shit like that can happen at any gig especially out here in the sticks where the power supply can fluctuate enough to cause a "brown out". Analogue gear tends to take that in its stride. But digital gear chucks a major wobbly.

Having said all that, I alway carry a back up mixer (and did even when I had analogue desks).

I specifically bought this thing so I could leave all my heavy awkward analogue stuff at home. Less work for a broken down, arthritic old fart like me.

Man, I hope you end up working all this out.

There really isn't another option in the same price bracket as the DL except for the PreSonus 16.0.2 but it doesn't really have 16 channels and you need a laptop and modem to wireless mix on an iPad.

I hope it works out too. 4 weeks till my next gig so no pressure yet.

I have zero interest in the presonus for the reasons you mention. Plus it cost a few $100 mire than I paid for the mackie.

Good luck mate.

Thankyou. I think I'm gonna need it

[sam.spoons]

The problem is that most of the kit is made in the same Chinese manufacturing facilities with the same variable attitude to QC. Time will tell but Behringer have built their own factory and manned it with their own management/tech/QC team to get around the problem. I suspect A&H, Mackie, JBL, et al use the same bunch of factories and the quality of the product will depend as much on how frequently the client's QC guys visit as any other factor. `If the white noise issue is a HW problem and earlier DL's seem ok (anybody out there got the problem with an older DL?) that suggests a change of spec on newer ones may be causing the problem. If it's a SW/FW issue then the older desks should be just as susceptible.

Whichever way, I'll add mine to Fluddman's good luck.

[WK154]

For recording you can't use the iPad/DL it  needs to be out of the DL's L or R outputs onto another device. This thing can't walk and chew gum at the same time. It's either playback or record. We of course want it in playback to produce the noise.

Bugger! Sorry I can't record anything for ya then. I haven't used a cassette deck this century, and the 3 old ones I have are stuffed. Some of the little wheels don't turn in 'em anymore.

Yes I know I'm a sound engineer and maybe I "should" have some way of recording audio, but the reality is I don't go anywhere near studio recording.

And 100% of the bands I work for own at least one of those little Zoom recording devices that they either plug into the RCA outs on my A&H (that ain't gonna be possible anymore with the DL), or they just sit it somewhere in the venue and record through the built in mics.

Sorry man

p.s. You've been very helpful and supportive during this saga and I appreciate that. Cheers.

I'll take a Zoom recording if you would, just wanted to eliminate as much of the frequency mods (like speakers) as possible. It would still be telling. Besides what better way to let the rest of the world know what a Mackie DL sounds like  . I forgot you have multiple iPads so just use VoiceRecord or some other program that will let you get at the sound file for recording. No need to borrow Zoom's. Then there are iPhones etc. recorders galore. The word your looking for is tenacity, no worries man  .

[Wynnd]

My Chinese built MixWiz that I bought new in 2008 was flawless the entire time I owned it.  It has gone on to a Colorado Springs Country band and should serve them well.  (They have a video linked here that has gotten good reviews.)  I don't know how A&H is doing things today, but back then, they had a solid product.

[RoadRanger]

Just a reminder that the DL1608 is assembled in Mexico, not China.

[WK154]

AFAIK the board sub-assemblies are made in China then sent to Mexico for assembly and test. Remember this is a bean counter product, max profits while you can. Part of that "big sucking sound" described by Ross Perot for those that remember.