Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: ChiroVette on July 20, 2022, 08:39:11 PM
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Hey everyone, I have a question about upgrading from version 4 to version 5. Normally this would be a non-issue, and I would use the latest version of the app. However I just ordered a new iPad, eighth GEN, which does not dock with my DL1608. Now I have been using a third generation iPad, literally from about 10 years ago lol to run my mixer, and it has served me well as a decent work surface. Problem, of course, is that it only supports master fader 4.
Now, other than the fact that my old unit is, well really old, it functions fine still. And I like the fact that I can leave it docked. Now that I have a new iPad that can only run from the Wi-Fi, my dilemma is a trade-off of sorts. My real question then becomes, what am I losing if I just stay with master theater 4? You may be asking why I would need to do that, and the reason is because I spoke to Mackie tech support, and they told me that I cannot run the mixer with two different units using two different versions of the app, which does make sense.
I just like the idea of being able to control the mixer with two different iPads, which means I guess I could leave the iPad 3 docked while running the 8th GEN model on Wi-Fi only.
So what, exactly am I losing if I stick with the last version of master fader?
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I guess you missed a lot since 2013. You will find out that using V5 will install the new bios update and your old V4 will no longer work AFAIK. Decision time.
Cheers
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So what are the changes from V4 to V5?
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V5.0 was only for the DL16S and DL32S. V5.1 handled the DL1608 etc. Read all about it here. http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=1536.msg18124#msg18124
Cheers
P.S. The search function works just fine to catch up on 9 years here.
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Is there a difference between 5.0 and 5.1 or are they one in the same?
By the way, that thread didn't really get into what the differences are between V4 and V5 (whether 5.0 if it exists, or 5.1). My only goal here is to decide whether or not V5 is a worthwhile enough upgrade from V4 to sacrifice being able to use one older, docked iPad and my brand, spanking new one on WiFi on the same mixer and/or show. All I know now, is Mackie tech support couldn't even tell me what the differences are between the V4 and and of the V5's. LMAO The tech support guy admitting he had no clue about it actually suggested I make a thread in this forum to find out, as he didn't know. :lol:
By the way, I didn't know that V5 wasn't designed for the DL1608 and has been made "compatible," again, none of which helps me clearly define what V5 does that V4 doesn't.
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My advice is to stick with V4.62. JohnMHoyt's list pretty much spells out the major differences. For more answers use the search function from the main page if you are looking for specifics.
Cheers
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The obvious source for all your questions even if Mackie Tech support can't read is the MF manual. Appendix E. has a list of all the changes from 4.62 to 5.2. As they say RTFM. Mackie has always been great with documentation on this product. If anything strikes your fancy you can also get the details there.
Cheers
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So what, exactly am I losing if I stick with the last version of master fader?
For the "classic" DL1608, the key feature you're losing is the new effects engine. Also, 5.x versions have better copy/paste functions for whole channels (including sends), which can be very useful for re-organizing channels.
Another minor new feature: you can actually use the faders and mute/solo buttons in the overview screen.
That's prety much it.
For the DL1608, you'll need the 5.1 version - that's the version that introduced support for the older models. 5.0 only supported the new models (DL16S, DL32S)
Cheers,
Torsten
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What do you stand to gain, albeit with possible additional investment of time and resources.
https://mackie.com/img/file_resources/Master%20Fader_V5_1_RG.pdf
Point to consider, if had there been no MF5.1 or the recent iPad, then no dilemma. If Not Broke, Do not Fix, presuming operational to date.
Personally, I would migrate to MF5.1, aware that I would want to acquire the Lightning dock kit, for an additional (used) iOS 11 minimum iPad for docking, the current minimum iOS required by MF5.1.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209574
Its a relatively minor investment for continued and enhanced operational feature set, with additional choices in UI device control other than an iPad.
Cheers
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The current version is 5.2. Is there anything wrong with it that I'm not aware of?
Cheers
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The current version is 5.2. Is there anything wrong with it that I'm not aware of?
Nope - should have written "at least 5.1"...
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It doesn't matter anyways, when you download MF5 you will only get V5.2. According to Wynn both MF 4.x and MF 5.x can be run on the same iPad. He used to have a DL1608 but is currently using a DL16S which I believe this test was from. So the docked old unit running V4.x and the WiFi V4.x should both be able to control the DL1608. See http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=1653.msg18909#msg18909
Cheers
Corrected to MF V4.xx above
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So the docked old unit running V4.x and the WiFi V5.x should both be able to control the DL1608.
Not quite - whenever you start MF 5.x and connect to the 1608 it will update the firmware, since it will only run with newer firmware. Then MF 4.x can't be used with that 1608 anymore.
The key of the thread you linked is that the MF 5.x and 4.x apps can co-exist nicely on one iPad (I have the same on one of my iPads).
But if you have a DL1608 that is still on a 4.x compatible firmware, you can only control it with the 4.x app on both iPads. Once the firmware is updated to 5.x compatibility, the 4.x app will not be able to control it anymore, so the OP's older "docked" iPad won't be able to control the box anymore.
If you want to keep using both iPads, that means running a 4.x compatible firmware on the mixer and ONLY the 4.x app on both iPads. Yes, you can have the 5.x app on the newer iPad (if you want to control other Mackie mixers with it), but make sure you don't connect that to the 1608 with the old firmware.
TL;DR: if you want to keep using both iPads, stick with 4.x. If you don't have any other Mackie mixers to control, don't install 5.x on the newer iPad because you'll risk an accidental firmware update that will make the older iPad unable to connect.
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You're quite correct it should have been MF V4.xx for the WiFi to use both iPads.
Cheers
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Just to be clear you can revert back to V.4 firmware after trying out V.5. It's in the manual. I use V.4 since three of my my four ipads are incompatible with V.5. The big difference is supposed to be the reverb, I use an external, in my view, superior sounding app called AudioReverb on the docked ipad 3.
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My thought here is that Mackie will end-of-life v4 at some point, if v5 has a superset of functionality then continuing to maintain v4 is just extra overhead. The lightning connector conversion kit is out there, as are the newer trays, so maybe it's just a matter of time ....
I have one of the original DL1608's with iPad 2 and old style connector, have been using it for ~10 years ... was thinking it would be nice to move to DL16S or 32S to fit the unit in a rack and lose the docked iPad requirement for digital recording ... but quickly found out that the S's don't support 2-track record/playback to a simple USB stick ... bummer ... I don't need to add a computer to my rig, I'm trying to reduce equipment and tabletop footprint here, not expand it.
I don't use reverb for my semi-annual gig (middle school instrumental music concert) so for me the difference between v4 and v5 only seems to be the older iPad and connector compatibility.
-- John
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Well, honestly, it makes my life a lot easier to have my old iPad docked on the 1608 and my new iPad running off WiFi. If Mackie decides to discontinue support for MF4.xx, then so be it. I will either buy a new mixer at that point or hope that Mackie will allow docking with some kind of an upgraded hardware addition to the DL1608. I am not sure how much longer my old iPad 3 will even last or when it will die, but I can see myself upgrading to a newer iPad again in a couple of years. But without the ability to dock the DL1608 does lose some of its attractiveness to me.
Then again, the mixer has served me well for over 8 years, so if I have to buy another mixer if support for MF4 is discontinued and I still want to use both iPads, then it is what it is. I do like the Presonus StudioLive mixers, and though I am not a fan of Behringer, their X32 has gotten rave reviews from a lot of my sound man friends. I suppose the Mackie DL32s and DL32r are also worth a look if that happens.
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Fyi after some checking yesterday I found out that the iPad Air tray fits iPad 2017/2018 models as well ... so a $40 tray plus $50 lightning connector upgrade will allow my DL1608 to dock considerably newer iPads ... and enough to run MF5.
-- John
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Fyi after some checking yesterday I found out that the iPad Air tray fits iPad 2017/2018 models as well ... so a $40 tray plus $50 lightning connector upgrade will allow my DL1608 to dock considerably newer iPads ... and enough to run MF5.
-- John
So the new iPad (regular model, which is the one I have) fits in the iPad Air tray? That's definitely a good bargain if it works; however, I suspect it isn't that simple. I spoke to Makie Tech support about this, a conversation I literally just remembered while writing this post that I had back when I purchased this new iPad back in August of this year. I remember him saying something I personally thought was a little absurd. He said that he believed the lightning cable adapter won't work for the newer iPads, because the models that came after the 2018 iPads aren't supported for docking connectivity with the lightning cable adapter.
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So the new iPad (regular model, which is the one I have) fits in the iPad Air tray? That's definitely a good bargain if it works; however, I suspect it isn't that simple. I spoke to Makie Tech support about this, a conversation I literally just remembered while writing this post that I had back when I purchased this new iPad back in August of this year. I remember him saying something I personally thought was a little absurd. He said that he believed the lightning cable adapter won't work for the newer iPads, because the models that came after the 2018 iPads aren't supported for docking connectivity with the lightning cable adapter.
No I think it will only fit the 9.7" models, the newer ones are larger in size ... per https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-250001726 that ends with the 2017 and 2018 models (of which I happen to own one of each) ... so I'm going to buy the tray and a lightning dock kit and try it out ... will let you know what happens ...
Thanks. John
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Fyi I just pulled the plug and ordered the "Lightning tray kit" directly from Mackie ... it includes both the connector and the tray ... not sure if it also includes the frame that those two fit in ... I guess I'll see when they show up.
Refurb iPad 2018's are under $200 in "excellent" condition, so I will pick up another one of those to replace the iPad 2 ... fingers crossed I will be good to go with MF5.
-- John