Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: WK154 on August 31, 2014, 04:47:44 AM
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My recent design and installation of an audio system for a chorus left me with one additional missing feature I didn't think about before. They can handle all the traditional media you can throw at it but were missing wireless playback. As it turns out quite a useful feature since the director has an iPad that she uses for playback, keyboard and recording. Holding her lapel mic to the iPad speaker! Well needless to say I thought that's a simple solution get an Airport Express and your done. Well I thought about it some more and finally realized I was there about 6 years ago with a Zoom Telecom Bluetooth device that worked just fine thru a couple of walls and about 40 ft. I had two of these collecting dust. I tried it with the iPad and no go. As it happens Apple doesn't like Bluetooth and would like it to go away, unfortunately after a couple of billion devices out in the world it's not going to be. Turns out that Apple insists on encrypted devices only not a requirement for most Bluetooth devices especially older ones. Hence my device won't pair. No problem the unit has it's own transmitter that can be plugged into any 3.5mm stereo output. I used it with an early iPod that had no wireless connection. After 6 plus years Bluetooth has not stood still and you can get Apple friendly versions for a mere $28 that are more reliable than Airplay. Why is that? In the 2.4Gig arena a fixed frequency WiFi connection with a whopping 3 clear channels or a total of 11 with overlap can't compete with a 79 channel Spread Spectrum Technology. It came from the military's desire to prevent radio message interception from the enemy. There are several versions I won't go into here but suffice it to say that dropouts are few and far between compared to WiFi. Net results more reliable. The new version drops the channels to 40 but doubles the bandwidth still far from WiFi's 11 on the 2.4Gig frequency. Throw in the 5 Gig and your still not there. If you want a current Apple friendly receiver: http://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-NFC-Enabled-Bluetooth-Receiver-System/dp/B009OBCAW2/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1408832253&sr=1-4&keywords=rca+bluetooth+receiver
For the latest Bluetooth technology check out CSR, one of the mayor players in this field.
http://www.csr.com/milestones
Yes your going to point out that Airplay is free with an Airport Express access point that you need anyways but for those that value reliability or don't have a Airport Express this is a better solution. Most current phones have Bluetooth so you don't need to buy into Apples ecosystem.
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I don't find Apple hating Bluetooth. I use it with my iphone, both ipads and my MacBook Pro. Bluetooth hasn't stopped marching and I'm hoping that my next helmet Bluetooth communication device will have Siri giving me corner to corner directions straight to my helmet. (Something missing with my Scala Q2 and iphone 4S.) I can dictate text messages and have Siri dial up anyone in my phone book. (As well as have Siri read any NEW messages to me.)
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Apple would much rather see Airplay as your choice. About a year ago Apple updated the Bluetooth driver and suddenly a large number of devices stopped working especially in high end Autos. Apples answer get yourself a newer Beamer and it'll work. Needless to say most got a new phone instead.
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My Wife uses my iphone all the time and I avoid her Android like the plague. We both think the iphone is easier to use and much more logical about shutting off any timers and alarms than Android is. (Androids you need to know the sub menus to shut things off. Iphones always have whatever noisemaker's shutoff on the top. ALWAYS!) Just to let you know that this is a geek household. We met studying Computer Science in 1979. We're both comfortable with Windows, Macs, Linux machines. Android has a stupid learning curve. The iphone has nearly none at all. (Not familiar with the windows phones today.)
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It's about a communications technology not about phones and 70% of the World would rather deal with Android. ;)
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Dont think 70% rather deal with android, same as with windows, both are not very user frendly
Most people use the because you can get it cheaper and with lots of free apps, that why 70% will rather deal with them
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My Son's company provided iphone 5 has shown them that the apps that his Wife get free sometimes cost more from Apple's walled garden. (His term.) I personally don't understand why this is a big thing for them. (They can easily afford it.) I've gotten to the point where I'm more likely to pull an app off my ios device. (16 gig.) Might go for a larger memory one next time. I was using a Palm phone before I moved to the iphone. There is so much similarity between the functionality of both phones. He is one who would move away from the iphone just for the cheaper apps. (And probably to the Android platform.) I just don't get it. He has no problem paying $50+ for a computer game, but balks at paying $3 for an app that is only $1 on the android platform. (He's 35) Maybe he's got remodeling plans for the $20 saved. (Recently redid their kitchen. Think it cost them about $25K.)
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Once again this is about BLUETOOTH and APPLE, if you want to talk about phones start a phone topic. ::)
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Thought I made myself very clear about Bluetooth and Apple. That all works for me and my Apple products. I don't see the issues the OP made affecting my life. I do wish that Siri would give corner to corner directions through my bluetooth helmet communication device. It doesn't. Everything else works on that and I suspect it's the version of bluetooth supported by the Scala Q2 headset that is the limiting factor.
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Well my bleutooth carradio doesnt work with my old phone (running android)
With my apple phone without problems, and yes is an old carradio
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Thought I made myself very clear about Bluetooth and Apple. That all works for me and my Apple products. I don't see the issues the OP made affecting my life. I do wish that Siri would give corner to corner directions through my bluetooth helmet communication device. It doesn't. Everything else works on that and I suspect it's the version of bluetooth supported by the Scala Q2 headset that is the limiting factor.
That's good your not affected, a G9 would answer your other wishes I believe. As to Apple's requirement for Bluetooth with the current iOS, here is their statement:
Note: iOS requires that the remote Bluetooth device support an encrypted connection. When you establish a pairing record between your iOS device and a Bluetooth device, you are setting up encryption between the two devices.
That means Bluetooth V2.1 or later where encryption was mandatory. No backward compatibility.
Ampli, some old radio and some old phone are real specific. ::)
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If you want WiFi and Bluetooth running on you iPad or other device it's best to run WiFi on solely the 5 Gig band and Bluetooth will be happy on 2.4 Gig. This may be a problem with the Airport Express but not with most other access points such as Airport Extreme. I could not find a way to limit Airport Express to 5 Gigs only. I don't own one and never will. If someone found a way speak up. This means that it could use 2.4 and both WiFi and Bluetooth would suffer from speed loss. Remember airwaves are a half duplex media, only one device per frequency.
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You need different names on 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz anyway. Make the passwords different and don't let your ios devices have the one for 2.4Ghz. It's a work around, but it does work. (Pretty much what I have going on with my Airport Express. My iphone only does 2.4Ghz and I don't have any bluetooth devices on my mixer or network.)(
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You need different names on 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz anyway. Make the passwords different and don't let your ios devices have the one for 2.4Ghz. It's a work around, but it does work. (Pretty much what I have going on with my Airport Express. My iphone only does 2.4Ghz and I don't have any bluetooth devices on my mixer or network.)(
Got it, multiple new networks but still no choice on frequency band, so how will that be determined? Pot luck?
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Look for both WiFi Networks. Select the 5Ghz one. (Mine is named NoInternetHere 5Gz) apply the correct password and never select the other network. It should always connect up to the correct WiFi because it's already got the password for it and has been connected in the past. Then you can also stop it from asking to connect to new networks, because its been connected up previously to the only one you want to use. That should make it work the way you want it to work. (Without regard to what kind of WiFi router you're using. Should work with any of them.) I went with an Airport Express because of familiarity with the product. I was a PC/Network tech and even though it's been more than 10 years since I was doing that, I'm pretty sure I could handle it without regard to manufacturer or OS. (Linux and Windows included.) And in desperation, I could always get my Son to help. (Neither of us has been able to help the other much in the last 10 years. He works for Digital Globe.)
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One more thing. If your ios device doesn't handle 5Ghz, you will never see the 5Ghz Wifi. (And nothing will change that.) My iphone 4S doesn't do 5Ghz. I can't see it with that device. My ipad 2 and ipad mini both handle 5 Ghz with no difficulties. And the Dl1608 mixer can see whatever is connected up to the WiFi router without regard to band used. Earlier versions of Airport Express could only do one band at a time. Using one of those requires you only set up the one band you can use with all the devices you will be using. As long as my iphone 4S is one item I want to be able to use, I would have had to use the 2.4 Ghz band only.
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I think you misunderstood me, I fully understand the client side selection process (iPad, Iphone etc.). I should have stated "create multiple networks" (local, my bad) on the Airport Express, no networks existing on the base station. The manual is worthless but Columbia U. IT has a reasonable set of instructions that give you all the choices from the Airport Utility. A picture is worth a thousand words.
http://www.columbia.edu/acis/networks/aptnet/express/
There is no choice on radio. A point that Apple makes regarding the Express by automatically determining the better band for you in typical Apple style (need to know, and we know better). Does the Express then activate both bands and name them differently for you? If that's not the case then you have no choice and both radio's are used at the Express's choosing. The instructions on the Extreme clearly ask you to make a choice on radio (same utility), hence you can control the bands. See instructions:
http://www.columbia.edu/acis/networks/aptnet/airportx/
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Airport express won't fire up the 5 Ghz without getting to the advanced screen. (I should include a screen shot from Airport Utility.) It also doesn't name anything for you and you will need a different name for the 5 Ghz. Both bands can have the same password or different passwords. Airplay also isn't automatic and needs to be set up if you're going to use it. I'll be clearer in the AM. Will get that screen shot then.
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Found that WiFi options screen V6 of utility. None of the examples are with the Express. Thanks for the offer no longer necessary unless the utility blocks radio choices for the Express. Hoover or hold the option key down, really! Don't these guys have anything better to do at Apple? ::)
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It's that one button mouse. Apple products work fine with two button mice. (With scroll wheels too.) But Apple doesn't default to them. My Magic Mouse is set up with the two button configuration. Much easier to live with. Whenever you want the pop-up menu, use the right button.
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Picked up the a fore mentioned Bluetooth receiver http://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-NFC-Enabled-Bluetooth-Receiver-System/dp/B009OBCAW2/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1408832253&sr=1-4&keywords=rca+bluetooth+receiver#
and the iPad is now happy with an encrypted device. Its a class 2 (30 meters (~100ft,) max, limited down to 66ft.) range V2.1 +EDR with NFC ability.
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With iPad shut down the Bluetooth link stays active and has for several days. Nothing noticeable with the connection or the quality of the audio. I also have WiFi (2.4 Gig) operating in close proximity to the Bluetooth receiver and sender (iPad) no problems encountered.
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Apple strikes again. Last night the directors Bluetooth connection didn't work so I got the job, go fix it. Well it turns out that she updated to the latest iOS 8.1 and yes it broke Bluetooth. Had to first remove the devise and then re-pair . Yeah problem solved, not so quick it now has an untenable delay. Great job Fruit!! This will have to wait until after Sweet Adeline's International competition in Baltimore next week. By then I hope the keyboard app will have a fix for the delay. My 7.1.2 has no problem with the same app. :)
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Update: in the meantime a new version of MusicStudio the app that had delays was released and of course automatically installed by the director. Problem gone on both iOS versions. Now setup no longer requires Bluetooth as a selection in setup. As a matter of fact if you do select it the app no longer sends audio to the Bluetooth link ::). More Apple magic I'm sure.
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Just went to wearing hearing aids and they have bluetooth connection available to my ipad mini. In this situation, you can easily see that bluetooth is at best a bit flakey. Can't listen through my hearing aids without occasional gaps. (Usually short.) Just thought you might want to know.
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Just went to wearing hearing aids and they have bluetooth connection available to my ipad mini. In this situation, you can easily see that bluetooth is at best a bit flakey. Can't listen through my hearing aids without occasional gaps. (Usually short.) Just thought you might want to know.
My guess is that it's a V4.0 device with very limited range (class III) unless they provide a battery pack externally. Distance (power) has been the only problem I've ever encountered aside from backward compatibilty.
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The hearing aids are brand new. The app for control is geared to the iphone 5 and later. Got to admit that the ipad mini's antenna is a bit weak. Now the iphone 4S that I have has two very good antennas. (But the app doesn't run right on it.) My guess is that it would work nearly perfectly with an iphone 5 or later.
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The hearing aids are brand new. The app for control is geared to the iphone 5 and later. Got to admit that the ipad mini's antenna is a bit weak. Now the iphone 4S that I have has two very good antennas. (But the app doesn't run right on it.) My guess is that it would work nearly perfectly with an iphone 5 or later.
Unless you have a big lump hanging out of your ear the limit is the hearing aid. The mini no doubt has a similar range as the iPad and certainly is not the problem. My Jawbone only lasts a few hrs. before recharge. I trust your hearing aid has a longer operating time.
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Much longer, but the batteries are air/zinc (?) and last about 5 days. (When activated.)