Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: paulfrench on February 12, 2014, 01:52:13 PM
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My band is about to buy a new Dl 1608 and I'm wondering there are any issues using an original 1st gen iPad with the most up to date software. It will remain in the dock, and I'll be mixing the band from the stage without a lot of adjusting throughout the night. So, should we get a used iPad 1, or is it worth paying a little extra to get an iPad 2?
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My band is about to buy a new Dl 1608 and I'm wondering there are any issues using an original 1st gen iPad with the most up to date software. It will remain in the dock, and I'll be mixing the band from the stage without a lot of adjusting throughout the night. So, should we get a used iPad 1, or is it worth paying a little extra to get an iPad 2?
Personally I think the price difference between a used "1" and "2" isn't enough to not get a "2" especially as a "1" can't be updated to the latest iOS - and last I knew a new "2" isn't much more than a used "2", YMMV .
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Yes an "iPad 1" works but is a little slow in operation. I still use one but it seems to work better undocked IMHO.
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Thanks for the helpful feedback guys. I know there were some issues people were having with the earlier versions of the app and the 1st generation iPad. Sounds like they've fixed many of them. I downloaded the Master Fader app onto my iPad Air, and it looks like the DL1608 is gonna be a nice upgrade from our MixWizard. I'll be using the Air for pdf sheet music and daily use, and plan to leave the other docked in the 1608.
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I moved from a MixWiz to the DL1908 for several reasons. First, it's lighter and at 60 I'm trying to lighten up my load. Second, the ability to save shows and recall them. That's very useful when I not only mix my band, I also mix discussion panels, political speeches and rallies and I do a Senior's variety show every year that I'm looking forward to mixing from the audience. (By the way, I've found it much easier to live with when you default to syncing with the mixer instead of syncing with the ipad when turning everything on. Then if you need to change, it works fine.) The MixWiz is faster to make Aux volume and channel EQ changes. I'm not at the point where that's been a problem, but speed might be a limiting factor for using with my Senior's show. (I do a lot of bringing mics in and out throughout the show. It will be interesting.) I was ready to sell my MixWiz, but might decide to keep it instead. (As a secondary mixer to go with the DL and my Alesis Multimix16 Firewire recording mixer.)
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We have the same reasons for switching over Wynn. I think it's gonna save about 50lbs and some space in the truck. We play about 30-35 weddings each year, and some of the load ins are killer. Anything to make our job easier is a good idea. Once I get the mix set, it doesn't change much, even gig to gig, thanks to the in ear monitors. I'll be glad to be able to save a mix for the cocktail and dinner sets, and switch to the dance set mix. Once I get the compressors set, I imagine those will help keep the levels from jumping around much and make my job even easier.
I didn't understand what you meant by syncing the mixer on start up. I'll have to dig a little deeper into the user guide and find out.
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It's not mentioned. But I noticed a few times that when I started up the ipad with a different show than the one last on the mixer and attempted to sync to the ipad, it would sometimes hang. So my startup procedure is to start Master Fader while docked, turn on the mixer, Sync the ipad to the mixer. Go do some other setup stuff and come back to the mixer and select the show that I want to use and recall that one. (That is default to the mixer at startup, then later select the show I'm actually going to use.) I don't really know if this truly addresses the issue, but I haven't had the ipad or mixer hang since I've started doing it this way. Things are always going to be a bit strange when using two different devices that act as one. It's not perfect, but it is pretty good.
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Thanks for the explanation. That will probably save me a big headache. Now the search is on for an iPad 2, and order up the 1608.
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Just realize that it just might be my perception and nothing really. Humans tend to go with what looks like it works. It might just be me not being patience enough. By the way, I'm also using an ipad 2. As the owner of an iphone 4S and user of Siri, I miss not being able to dictate to the ipad like I do with my iphone. Not sure that's even an option on later models. If it is, that would be worth the extra cost. (And the 30 pin connector was the only one available when I bought my Mixer. That's no longer true.)
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^ My iPad Mini has Siri so I assume the iPad 3 and later also do.
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It's in 3 so shut it off. Last thing you need is some yappy female voice chirping in at the wrong time and using up resources.
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It's in 3 so shut it off. Last thing you need is some yappy female voice chirping in at the wrong time and using up resources.
For sure shut it off! I was using a friend's iPad 3 docked for bgm at a fairly big gig and pressed/lingered too long on the home button - off went the music, on came Siri - embarrassing :-[
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Thanks for the advice. We ended up buying an iPad 2 in "mint" condition. (that's what the seller"s assessment was anyway...uh, not quite.) Anyway,$200, and it's working so far on it's own. We ordered the 1608, so when it gets here I'll get to to work learning how to run it for real.
Thanks
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Thanks for the advice. We ended up buying an iPad 2 in "mint" condition. (that's what the seller"s assessment was anyway...uh, not quite.) Anyway,$200, and it's working so far on it's own. We ordered the 1608, so when it gets here I'll get to to work learning how to run it for real.
Thanks
Good luck with it Paul :thu:
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Thank you sir! I'm looking forward to entering the new (to me) world of live digital mixing. It's gonna be a good thing.
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Paul if you haven't bought the dl yet I sure hope you are considering the x32 rack. It's not much more money and has a hell of a lot more useful features. Now that I have been using mine I really see that the differences are absolutely huge. As someone said to me "welcome to a pro mixer". They were referencing the dl at the time.
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Hi Jerrylee, We did put that under consideration, and for $1200 the x32 rack looks incredible; I know many of you guys rave about it. We did order a Mackie DL1608, and the decision was based more on simplicity, and we know another band in our area that has been using the DL1608 for a while, and they have had good luck with it. I've done plenty of mixing (20 years ago), in recording studios and live in clubs, but I'm mixing, and playing guitar and singing all through this gig. (mostly weddings) We've been using an older 16:2dx mixwizard for the last couple of years, and I barely use EQ, a little reverb, and aux sends for IEMs, and one aux so I can balance the sub independent of the mains. So, it's just pretty simple. Just adding a few compressors and gates, and the ability to store a few mixer scenes will be a huge step up. I know I might be wanting more than the 1608 offers at some point, but for this season I'm hoping for reliability and ease of use. If the QSC touchmix was out, we probably would've bought one of those, but it's not available yet, and besides, we aren't excited to be the guinea pigs while they work out the bugs. That's my story....for now.
I do appreciate your input. Thanks.
Paul
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Paul, I was coming from about the same place you are. I'm pretty happy with the DL1608 and I'm sure it's going to work quite well for you too. (I also was leaving a MixWiz that was totally solid all 6 years of use.) The learning curve on the DL isn't bad and the functionality is good. I also previously had to use a StudioLive 24.4.2 over the last two years for my Senior's show, so I had something to consider and I thought it wasn't for me because, it doesn't fit into a standard rack and I like leaving my wireless receivers and driveracks hooked up in the stack. (Just another way I save setup and tear down time.) 16 channels is enough for just about everything I do. I do have an Alesis Multimix16 firewire that I use for recording that would also work for additional channels if I did need them. (I don't own that many mics and don't expect to need it.) I still have my MixWiz but I've been trying to sell it. Analog isn't holding value very well right now, for that matter, it's looking like digital will be going the same way pretty quickly. Here's hoping that JL goes the same direction that he thinks the DL should. (I still use Leslies. I don't really care what people think about them. They work for me, just like the DL.) I'm not really a person who abandons working technology very quickly. (I still have 1965 Kustom PA speakers and do use them from time to time. Kind of neat and funky and very unexpected and the bi-amp way I have them setup, they work amazingly well.)
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The Mixwiz has been great for us, but I'm all about lighter and smaller. Hard to believe I used to bring two Marshall half stacks to gigs a while back. One funny thing that happened with the Mixwiz a while back: I'd get the mix right, and I'll be damned if the mix didn't keep changing, vocals dropping a little too low etc. This was driving me crazy, all night, for many gigs. I finally figured out that the faders were a little loose, and the low end from the sub was vibrating the faders down, very slowly. We fixed it by sticking Velcro under the fader knobs to add a little friction. Man, did I feel dumb that it took that long to figure out!
I used to have a Leslie that was the same as the Fender Rotovibe, a Jensen speaker in a box with a styrofoam disc spinning in front. It sounded great, but sound guys wouldn't listen to me when I told them how to mic it up. One guy insisted on putting one mic on the side: no Doppler effect, it just sounded like a fly buzzing around the mic. Standing in front of a Leslie is just the coolest sound.
Thanks for the validation on our decision. Can't wait to get my hands on it. Hopefully this week.
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I have my own personal preferences of never mic'ing a Leslie. Honestly, the internal rotary sound of the VK-77 is just about as good as a mic'd Leslie. If the Leslie isn't loud enough, I'm probably going to bail on the band. (The 760 is about 118 dbc at 3 feet max and the 825 is about 114 dbc at 3 feet.) I really hate loud volumes and if the organ will ever have a solo, I need about 10 dbs of headroom. My current project is running stage volumes in the mid-90s. Sooooo nice to not wake up with ringing ears. With the exception of outdoor gigs, I don't bother carrying both. When I do carry both, I split them on opposite ends of the backline. (And always pray for a hard wall behind them.)
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Paul just so you know when it comes to simplicity the rack is actually a lot easier to use. The app setup is tab based. Once you know it you can fly through it. And programable gains make the board even more simple. You can plug everything in and not go near it again. You just use the app. It's awesome to have. I will never go back to gain knobs again. There is also the front panel control with full mixer control. You can leave the rack by someone if you need to. My drummer may want to use the panel control while I use the iPad. I can't tell you how many times I wished I could just turn down the mains without having to go back to the master fader app. There is a main volume control right on the front.
There are so many things that make the rack better, and easier, to use. I thought it was going to be hard myself. But quickly realized how simple it really is. And the cool thing is that it has the ability to be more complicated if I want it to. It's got a lot more inside. But as a basic mixer compared to the dl it is so much easier. If you downloaded the app it's hard to tell how easy it is. Things are not fully set up until it syncs to the rack. I was having issues understanding it. But when I synced it I knew exactly what was going on. I make my way through the app 2-3 times faster than the dl app. And set up is a lot faster too. I can't express how much the programable gains really mean to me. As I said before that feature alone is worth the upgrade. And now a only a couple hundred more it's almost a no brainer.
I hope the dl works great for you. But you may find yourself realizing the rack may have been the way to go. If you really want a list of reasons why I can give them to you. I have posted them here before. I can make sure to just give the practical working musicians list.
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Even I own two ios devices that can control the master output levels. But on the other hand, as a keyboard player, I rarely leave my bench and having the ipad in easy reach is a pretty good way for me to go. I know that doesn't work for everyone. The band that I used to play in is using a StudioLive 24.4.2 and doesn't bother bringing a computer to allow using an ipad with it. On the other hand, for the convenience of the trombone player, the mixer is on a stand in front of the drummer and all those cables add to amazing amounts of spaghetti onstage that they seem not to care about. (I have clips mounted on my stand to manage and neaten cables.) So mixing from an ipad might not seem sexy, but in a lot of ways, it's better looking than most music stands. (And boy have there been huge amounts of complaints about music stands onstage.) It's way sexier than mixing with a nice mixer in front of the drummer with cables left to chance. My new project hasn't gone out yet and we do need a full dress rehearsal that includes the stage layout and cable management. I'm thinking about a backline power strip that includes all the necessary clips to manage cross stage cables. (Powered speakers, mic cables.... I really appreciate clean stages.)
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Paul, I came from a Mixwiz myself and after just over a year with the DL, I'm glad I sold the Mixwiz (took a pretty bad hit as these are not selling well).
One thing to think about when using the DL, remember to always know what page your on before adjusting faders. When new, it's a common mistake to be on an aux mix and then try to make adjustments to the mail mix!
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Thanks, Steve. I'll try to watch for that, I'm sure I'll do it anyway, even with the warning. Well, I only have $400 into my mixwiz, so that's the most I can lose! Not having to carry the mixwiz in the case, and the heavy stand 35-40 times is probably worth whatever I'm gonna lose on it, right?
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On the other hand, the MixWiz rack mounts pretty well. I do so many different things as a sound guy, that the savable scenes are very useful on the DL. (And knowing that it's all backed up on my MacBook will help if the ipad ever craps out on me.)
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Paul, I came from a Mixwiz myself and after just over a year with the DL, I'm glad I sold the Mixwiz (took a pretty bad hit as these are not selling well).
One thing to think about when using the DL, remember to always know what page your on before adjusting faders. When new, it's a common mistake to be on an aux mix and then try to make adjustments to the mail mix!
+1 on that!
When I first got the DL that caught me out a few times.
Btw, I still occasionally use the gain pots to quickly adjust volumes, faster than fudging the virtual faders if I'm in a big hurry. So not all bad having them - especially coming from a desk with real faders and mixing whilst on stage. Programmable rotary encoders would have been better but no major issue. If I'm doing multiple shows I just take a pic of the gain knobs with my iPhone.
The LPF & HPF filters on v2.1 will be a boon for running aux subs too when it comes out :)
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The LPF & HPF filters on v2.1 will be a boon for running aux subs too when it comes out :)
Yah musta missed it, we're waiting for 2.2/3.0 now ;) .
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The LPF & HPF filters on v2.1 will be a boon for running aux subs too when it comes out :)
Yah musta missed it, we're waiting for 2.2/3.0 now ;) .
Dang it! I'm so 2013 ;)