Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: ggraue on March 17, 2013, 07:24:06 PM
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I am a new owner of the DL1608 and I recently did a live gig with my new mixer. Went pretty well, but I had a couple of struggles. The big issue seems to be with the AUX sends and effects, particularly compression. I have heard that the AUX sends are NOT pre-effects. Yikes! My lead singer complained that his guitar and voice in his in-ear monitor sounded terrible.
I think there were comments in the original Mackie forum, but now that it is down, I cannot find anything on this issue. Any chance the new 1.4 update will address this problem?
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I set the compression on vocal channels at threshold -14 db and make sure the trim is set so only the loudest of peaks compress - basically using the compressor as a limiter.
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There was, as you say, loads of discussion of this on the old forums. I think RR has the old stuff archived. However to clarify. The insert FX (i.e. Comp, Gate, EQ) are all pre-aux, send FX (Rev and Delay) are post fade as always. This is the default for nearly all analogue desks for the last 30+ years (The A&H MixWiz is the exception that proves the rule). Digital desks nearly always offer alternative routing to place the dynamics and eq after the aux if required. The DL is unique (at least for now) in being the only desk of it's type, it costs a similar price to a cheap analogue desk a couple of FX units and does way more than even a top of the range live desk of 10 years ago (ok RR allow me a bit of poetic licence here :-). Use the dynamics sparingly as you would have done when you were using analogue and you'll be fine. I believe Master Fader 1.4 won't address this issue but BenO has said it's on the 'to do' list.
For the moment we have to take the DL for what it is, a great small gig desk with great pre-amps and a fantastic workflow. It's not perfect but, so far, it's been getting better with every update. With what is promised for MF1.4 (better dealing with shows and snapshots, icons stored in presets and a few other things) and the My Fader app for the iPhone we'll be getting everything that was promised pre-launch so we should treat everything else as bonus features 8) As Sheryl Crow said "It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got" :eek:
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I almost sold my Presonus StudioLive... 'til I found out about the aux post dynamics/eq thing. Post eq I can get around, but the post dynamics I can't do because sometimes I'll mix a heavy band with a hardcore screamer that I need to limit severely in FOH. If the 1608 had subgroups with compression control I could do it that way, but that seems like it would add to the complexity of the 1608, and I think it's almost perfect as it is (from messing with the 1.3 app demo). My previous desk was an A&H MixWiz3, and a MW2 before that, so I always thought pre-everything was the norm. Bad me. :-) As soon as the pre-everything option is available, I'm buying it right-quick.
p.s. thanks for starting this forum! I'd been trying to access the Mackie one for days.
p.p.s. extra points for having some of the cast of Angel as your avatar pics.... but why only Buffy's husband? [grin]
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I almost sold my Presonus StudioLive... 'til I found out about the aux post dynamics/eq thing. Post eq I can get around, but the post dynamics I can't do because sometimes I'll mix a heavy band with a hardcore screamer that I need to limit severely in FOH.
A workaround is to use a "Y" cord on that mic so you can use two channels on it - one for monitors and one for FOH :) .
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Actually... that's one of the best ideas I've heard so far, as long as I still have enough channels for the rest of the band. I'll definitely think on that one... never even thought of a y-cord as an option. Thanks!
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Actually... that's one of the best ideas I've heard so far, as long as I still have enough channels for the rest of the band. I'll definitely think on that one... never even thought of a y-cord as an option. Thanks!
That was fairly common practice on them BIG analog boards for the lead singer at least as they usually have the auxes post insert.
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If I need to do that with more than one channel I could always use a 4 channel line mixer to feed into one of the 1608 channels.
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I almost sold my Presonus StudioLive... 'til I found out about the aux post dynamics/eq thing. Post eq I can get around, but the post dynamics I can't do because sometimes I'll mix a heavy band with a hardcore screamer that I need to limit severely in FOH. If the 1608 had subgroups with compression control I could do it that way, but that seems like it would add to the complexity of the 1608, and I think it's almost perfect as it is (from messing with the 1.3 app demo). My previous desk was an A&H MixWiz3, and a MW2 before that, so I always thought pre-everything was the norm. Bad me. :-) As soon as the pre-everything option is available, I'm buying it right-quick.
p.s. thanks for starting this forum! I'd been trying to access the Mackie one for days.
p.p.s. extra points for having some of the cast of Angel as your avatar pics.... but why only Buffy's husband? [grin]
Last analogue board I used on a regular basis was a Mackie VLZ 24.4.2. The Auxes are all pre everything except the trims. You can see the signal chain looking down a channel strip. First the trim, then 6 aux sends, the first 4 are always pre, the last two are switchable between pre or post. I used them set to post for efx sends. Then the Eq is on the channel, not effecting the auxes. My 1202 is also pre. My SL 24.4.2 is switchable between post, and two different pre settings. Can't imagine a situation where I would want to change the EQ or comp settings in a FOH mix and have that effect a monitor mix also. I really hope a software/firmware update addresses this. I did a play Monday night for my first gig with the DL: 4 wireless lavs, 5 pzm floor mics, iPod for musc and SFX, into a single pair of QSC. k12s. 1,000 seat theatre built in 1913 with great acoustics. Sounded great. Clear to the last row in the balcony. BUT, no monitors. Friday night is the 4 piece 80's rock band and I'm freaking about the pre aux issue. Have mixed this band many times with the SL and no issues. I've tried to write a few monitor EQ and channel presets at home before hand. THE AUXES NEED TO BE PRE EVERYTHING ! Or at least switchable........
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There was, as you say, loads of discussion of this on the old forums. I think RR has the old stuff archived. However to clarify. The insert FX (i.e. Comp, Gate, EQ) are all pre-aux, send FX (Rev and Delay) are post fade as always. This is the default for nearly all analogue desks for the last 30+ years (The A&H MixWiz is the exception that proves the rule). Digital desks nearly always offer alternative routing to place the dynamics and eq after the aux if required. The DL is unique (at least for now) in being the only desk of it's type, it costs a similar price to a cheap analogue desk a couple of FX units and does way more than even a top of the range live desk of 10 years ago (ok RR allow me a bit of poetic licence here :-). Use the dynamics sparingly as you would have done when you were using analogue and you'll be fine. I believe Master Fader 1.4 won't address this issue but BenO has said it's on the 'to do' list.
For the moment we have to take the DL for what it is, a great small gig desk with great pre-amps and a fantastic workflow. It's not perfect but, so far, it's been getting better with every update. With what is promised for MF1.4 (better dealing with shows and snapshots, icons stored in presets and a few other things) and the My Fader app for the iPhone we'll be getting everything that was promised pre-launch so we should treat everything else as bonus features 8) As Sheryl Crow said "It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got" :eek:
+1 Sam :)
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Can't imagine a situation where I would want to change the EQ or comp settings in a FOH mix and have that effect a monitor mix also.
I can - Kick drum channel in the drum monitor - I've found that the drummer likes the EQ the same as the house EQ.
On vocals, just be very careful about adding high's, run the comp's sparingly and it will sound great.
I do nothing but loud, rock bands and the DL has retired my Mixwiz (and the 200 lbs of rack gear, snake, etc)
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I can - Kick drum channel in the drum monitor - I've found that the drummer likes the EQ the same as the house EQ.
Yes, this is why it's important to have the aux tap point selectable per-channel. Unfortunately many mixers cheese out and make the tap point selection per-aux and not per-channel within that aux :( .
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Hi all
Another way of using compression on more vocals is to make a 'sub group' using the aux (if u got one over)
If u have 4 singers dont mix them on the l r layer (leave al faders down)
But use an aux to mix them, use the auxoutput compressor to group compress then route the auxoutput to a channel in ,and open this channel on the l r.
Greetz Marco
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Ampli, apparently you don't own a dl1608.
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Known it longer jerry youre an as***
Yes i own one and tryed this it works
You only need to be very care full
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Maybe ampli because you English is sh-t you don't know how to explain yourself. But based on what you actually said you are completely wrong or totally confused. Unless of course you left something out. As far as the aux channel goes there is no aux compressor and cannot be routed to an input channel. But if you meant use an external compressor connected to an aux and then to a channel then yes this is possible. But that is not what you actually said.
And here is an easier way to accomplish this. (This might also be what you meant too). You can just connect a cable from the aux out to an input. Mix 4 mics with the aux as a sub group. Then use the inputs channel compressor and send that to the mains. But this is still not what you said.
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"Re: AUX channels issues
« Reply #15 on: Today at 05:00:43 AM »
Quote
Maybe ampli because you English is sh-t you don't know how to explain yourself. But based on what you actually said you are completely wrong or totally confused. Unless of course you left something out. As far as the aux channel goes there is no aux compressor and cannot be routed to an input channel. But if you meant use an external compressor connected to an aux and then to a channel then yes this is possible. But that is not what you actually said.
And here is an easier way to accomplish this. (This might also be what you meant too). You can just connect a cable from the aux out to an input. Mix 4 mics with the aux as a sub group. Then use the inputs channel compressor and send that to the mains. But this is still not what you said."
@JerryLee
What he does will work perfectly :
Mix 4 vocals on an aux set to Pre (and not sending them to mains) ,use the Compressor on the Aux out ,return on a channel that is send to mains. He could also use the compressor on the return channel
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Yes my english is not good ( not my native l)
Every aux has an compressor . And yes i forgot to mention the routing goes by jack jack or jack xlr cable ( thought people with a mind would get this)
I use it and it works
@jerry do you have an dl and experince in mixing??????
Gr marco
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Here is a big question I have. Where the heck is the comp/limiter on the aux? I have never used it and if its there I cannot find it. Is it not available off line?
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Here is a big question I have. Where the heck is the comp/limiter on the aux? I have never used it and if its there I cannot find it. Is it not available off line?
Go to the aux's GEQ and swipe it down. It's tricky, you have to swipe using the narrow grey area at the top of the GEQ. I wish it was a button instead of this hard to figure out swipe :( .
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Here is a big question I have. Where the heck is the comp/limiter on the aux? I have never used it and if its there I cannot find it. Is it not available off line?
Go to the aux's GEQ and swipe it down. It's tricky, you have to swipe using the narrow grey area at the top of the GEQ. I wish it was a button instead of this hard to figure out swipe :( .
Whoa, there it is! I never knew there was a compressor hidden in the aux channels!
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And thre is one on the mains too :)
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And thre is one on the mains too :)
I knew the mains had one. I never thought to look for it in the Auxes! :facepalm:
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Can't imagine a situation where I would want to change the EQ or comp settings in a FOH mix and have that effect a monitor mix also.
I can - Kick drum channel in the drum monitor - I've found that the drummer likes the EQ the same as the house EQ.
On vocals, just be very careful about adding high's, run the comp's sparingly and it will sound great.
I do nothing but loud, rock bands and the DL has retired my Mixwiz (and the 200 lbs of rack gear, snake, etc)
Took some getting used to but the gig did work out well. That was my proof of concept gig to see if it would, in fact, be a viable alternative to my larger SL 24.4.2. Definitely was. Let's see, do I bring a The SL pushing 80 pounds in its road case, attaché the cargo carrier on the trailer hitch on the Rodeo, to have room for it, or put the 12 pound DL in a bag over my shoulder? Hmmmmmmm