Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Tnelson494 on July 30, 2013, 11:49:28 PM
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So I get my new musicians friend catalog and page 146 has the new Phonic Acapela digital mixer ipad controlled DL1608 clone list for 749.99. I get a bit excited hey something new in the market so figured I'd do a little research on it as the catalog doesn't have much info (just that its basically 16 channels with 4 of them being combo XLR/TRS jacks and 48 kHz sample rate Ect. ) and there is nothing out there on it even on the phonic web site looks like they have a picture but no mention of it and nothing about it on the musician friend web site. Slightly irritating as the ipad app looks to have sub groups? The picture of the mixer ipad looks like its running the Phonic IS16 any one know anything about this ? I haven't looked hard just brief search on Google but still seems like there should be some mention of it oh it also says it can be controlled via android tablet :D
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I still have my Phonic Summit. An iPad control only version of the new IS16 is definitely of interest !
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I just wish I could find info for it can't believe they have it in the catalog but no info on any web site. does it record, are there subgroups? I like the idea of android capable operation and not being tied to apple but past that no idea
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I just wish I could find info for it can't believe they have it in the catalog but no info on any web site. does it record, are there subgroups? I like the idea of android capable operation and not being tied to apple but past that no idea
I'd suspect it is exactly an IS16 with no control surface so would have all the features and capability of that mixer. In talking to them about the IS16 in the past I know they were planning on making the app in HTML5 so that if would run on the iPad, Android, and PC. Be aware that the S16 had no HPF's unless you give up one of the four bands so that could still be a minus vs the DL1608. The DL1608 has killer HPF's :) . But I think you can also give up another band to have a true LFP, which the DL1608 lacks :( .
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Thanks for the heads up Road just curious if that thing is really out with no buzz whatsoever and if it is will it affect the DL progress timeline at all maybe step it up a notch :)
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What is the item # in that catalog? You might try typing that in the search on MF.
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H98807 tried that too no luck oh well sure it will pop up somewhere soon
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I just wish I could find info for it can't believe they have it in the catalog but no info on any web site. does it record, are there subgroups? I like the idea of android capable operation and not being tied to apple but past that no idea
I'd suspect it is exactly an IS16 with no control surface so would have all the features and capability of that mixer. In talking to them about the IS16 in the past I know they were planning on making the app in HTML5 so that if would run on the iPad, Android, and PC. Be aware that the S16 had no HPF's unless you give up one of the four bands so that could still be a minus vs the DL1608. The DL1608 has killer HPF's :) . But I think you can also give up another band to have a true LFP, which the DL1608 lacks :( .
The IS16 has HPF as well as a ton more dynamic control per channel (25 vs. 2 for Mackie). The DL isn't in the same league as the IS16. More in line with the X32 and until recently above $2000. I just noticed a sales price of $1499.99 which also includes rack mount hardware and WiFi dongle. That puts it in direct competition with the DL and all its extra cost add-ons. To me that's a no brainer. If the mystery mixer from Phonic is in the $800 range with similar capabilities as the IS16 it's game over for Mackie. I own several kit from them and they all work as advertised. I would be pi...d as well if a company would discontinue a product I bought in 2yrs. RR. I guess that's to be expected these days. Be interested in your reason for not using the S16. Is it the iPad functionality?
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Be interested in your reason for not using the S16. Is it the iPad functionality?
Yes, great sounding mixer otherwise. the on-board 'verbs are studio quality. I do question their almost non-existent US presence and lack of responsivity to their customers. They have a forum set up that they stopped responding on - before that they showed up every 3 months or so - and they finally admitted on FaceBook they abandoned it. Guess they lost the person with the password to close it or somethin' - pretty whack IMO:
https://getsatisfaction.com/phonic
EDIT> Actually looks like they have someone there now telling folks to go elsewhere in broken English :facepalm:.
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Well I down loaded that IS16 IPAD app to see what is was like seems slightly more complicated then Master Fader and if theres compressors on board they had no control in the app there was an assign group page but I didn't understand the routing and with out the hardware impossible self diagnose no control of the effects parameters there was an EQ on the groups but not on the AUX so I don't know if in fact that is the right app or just he control for the big mixer I like he fact hat it had tabs on top so ou could go to an all group view, all AUX mains view. But you could only view 8 channels at a time (have a tab for first 8 then a tab for 9-16) no tap button at all like I said no control over effects at all other then routing and level and type.
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Sounds like they have a few personnel problems (hiring sales and support earlier this year). My kits PAA3 and USB to SPDIF didn't require much help. Software was OK. Caution on the no brainer. Sounds like another outfit headed in that direction "M".
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I just wish I could find info for it can't believe they have it in the catalog but no info on any web site. does it record, are there subgroups? I like the idea of android capable operation and not being tied to apple but past that no idea
I'd suspect it is exactly an IS16 with no control surface so would have all the features and capability of that mixer. In talking to them about the IS16 in the past I know they were planning on making the app in HTML5 so that if would run on the iPad, Android, and PC. Be aware that the S16 had no HPF's unless you give up one of the four bands so that could still be a minus vs the DL1608. The DL1608 has killer HPF's :) . But I think you can also give up another band to have a true LFP, which the DL1608 lacks :( .
The IS16 has HPF as well as a ton more dynamic control per channel (25 vs. 2 for Mackie). The DL isn't in the same league as the IS16. More in line with the X32 and until recently above $2000. I just noticed a sales price of $1499.99 which also includes rack mount hardware and WiFi dongle. That puts it in direct competition with the DL and all its extra cost add-ons. To me that's a no brainer. If the mystery mixer from Phonic is in the $800 range with similar capabilities as the IS16 it's game over for Mackie. I own several kit from them and they all work as advertised. I would be pi...d as well if a company would discontinue a product I bought in 2yrs. RR. I guess that's to be expected these days. Be interested in your reason for not using the S16. Is it the iPad functionality?
Can you share where you found that deal on the IS16?
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Phonic-iS16-Digital-Mixer-Mixing-Console-/310702650735
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http://www.phantomdynamics.com/is16-16-input-8-bus-digital-mixing-console.html?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=19600381160&utm_content=pla&gclid=CJP-m9uC27gCFa9fQgodCjMASw
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Well I down loaded that IS16 IPAD app to see what is was like seems slightly more complicated then Master Fader and if theres compressors on board they had no control in the app there was an assign group page but I didn't understand the routing and with out the hardware impossible self diagnose no control of the effects parameters there was an EQ on the groups but not on the AUX so I don't know if in fact that is the right app or just he control for the big mixer I like he fact hat it had tabs on top so ou could go to an all group view, all AUX mains view. But you could only view 8 channels at a time (have a tab for first 8 then a tab for 9-16) no tap button at all like I said no control over effects at all other then routing and level and type.
I just downloaded the app and, suffice to say, it's bush league compared to Master Fader. Looks like a high school app project that was thrown together overnight. It has a long way to go.
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Something doesn't add up. The company has a significant array of products and certainly covers a world market. Yet the IS16 manual looks half finished ( in black and white for a color display) and with no mention of HTML5 except for one advertising brochure. There would be no need for an iPad app if access is the browser. S ooh there's the rub? US support is questionable but the market can't be ignored.
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RR:
From the Harmony Forum it sounded like you were really into the Phonic albeit the prior one S16. So what would be your recommendation on the IS16 as opposed to the DL1608 or X32 rack other than their lack of presence or their crappy manual?
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The IS16 has some advantages, but I have not had a chance to actually use one remotely. I'd choose the X32 Rack first at this point. I'm hoping the next DL1608 firmware brings us all much joy :) .
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Here is my problem with Behringer software. They're still using some graphics library from 10-15 yrs. ago. Fixed window size really! I asked Uli about this but he hasn't replied. Phonics on the other hand got it right if it's a full control of the console (a copy of the built-in screen which it seems to be). Forget the iPad app who needs it anyway use Safari. I do more studio than live work anyway so there are other benefits like a VGA screen and mouse and PC tablets. They also claim that they upped the performance over the S16. Trying to not do more impulse buying again. Nothing more to do on the DL other than selling it or redesigning it for them (a no-win situation).
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The Phonic Acapela is a new board and is just about ready to be released here is what i know about it.
12 mono XLR mic/line inputs plus 4 combo (XLR/TRS) inputs
Internal digital sampling rate up to 48 kHz in 24-bit resolution
Detailed GUI interface visible on external monitor (not included)
Software controllable using either wired or wireless USB mouse
Wireless control through iPad, Android tablet or Windows/Mac computer
4-band parametric EQ and adjutable delay on every input and output channel
21 dynamic processors (gates, expanders, compressors, limiters) available on input channels, multi outputs and main mix
Two stereo digital effect processors with 8 effect types, up to 9 variable parameters and numerous preset programs included; EFX 1 offers 3 reverb effects, each with 8 variations and adjustable parameters
4 aux and 4 group mixes assignable to multi outputs
+48V DC phantom power activated through user interface
High quality 24-bit AD/DA converters offer extraordinary dynamic range
Wireless operation through Wi-Fi connection or ethernet wired connection
Save and instantly recall scenes at the click of a mouse
Processing accomplished through a high quality 40-bit floating point digital signal processor
VGA D-Sub output: 1024x768p@60Hz (XGA)
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Sounds like a DL killer to me. Now they need to fix their US organization. And the price should be below or on par with the DL. A lot of the wish list for the DL is already there. Size should be on par with the DL.
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Someone sent me an email telling me about this thread so I thought I'd make a comment or two. First off, full disclosure, I work for Phonic. RoadRanger would remember me from the Harmony Central board (or maybe not, I don't know).
The Acapela is on it's way, but won't be in stores for at least a few months. We just released the ad early to give people a heads up, I believe. I'm not the one who placed the ad. The price is set for that particular model (as shown in the ad), we just don't have an exact release date set.
The IS16 remote iPad software is only a minor indication of what to expect from the Acapela software. It will have a similar overall design. The Acapela will, of course, feature a lot more controls through the iPad that aren't offered on the IS16 remote app. If you've used an IS16 or a Summit, the Acapela will offer all of the same signal processors (EQs, dynamics, delay, EFX) - these can all be controlled with the iPad or using a mouse and monitor. The IS16 remote, you'll notice, neglects a couple of these.
Also, with regards to the IS16's HTML5 control, this is actually gone after the latest firmware update. The update essentially swaps HTML5 for iPad compatibility. They're still working on expanding this to other tablets too.
I apologize if any of this sounds like marketing speak, I'm just trying to clear up what's going on with the product. But if you've got any questions, don't hesitate to send us an email through our help desk or post something on our facebook page. I'll also try and come back from time to time to answer anything else that pops up in here.
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Thank you grant_phonic for the clarification regarding HTML5. I was about to place an order for the IS16 unfortunately it was based in part due to HTML5. I think Phonic made a huge misstep in removing it. Now your just another iPad lock in.
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I have to say that way back when Phonic first announced they were looking to use HTML5 for device independence that I doubted that the performance would be acceptable. So there's no surprise here that they had to "go native" to compete.
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In my experience and many of my clients applications using HTML speed is not the issue, size may be. Very obvious in an intranet environment (no Internet delays). In Phonics case it may even be that they lost their HTML implementer (personnel problems seem to abound in this outfit). Good programmers in this area are hard to find and demand salaries above most. I heard the same speed arguments regarding fixed window graphic packages ( Behringer). Back in the early days ('70) of Unix you wrote the programs then analyzed them for performance (tools existed for this) and you rewrote the crappy code. This seems to have been lost on the current crop of programmers with automatic performance analyzers that sometimes work and the good ones are pricey. Bloat-ware is the norm these days with object oriented code.
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Well the manual is out no app yet in app store but a ship date from several dealers suggests mid November still at $749. The PDF manual is available on their web site. The feedback prevention didn't make it to the unit, maybe later. Subgroups and more flexible routing and metering than the DL. Signal generator included. Controlled via Display/keyboard mouse or tablet. Returns and repairs thru dealers. Looks like a DL knockoff with a better price.
http://www.phonic.com/en/acapela-16.html
The manual is hard to find without signing up with Box. Here it is:
https://phonic.app.box.com/users-manual/1/286690741
I forgot to mention that it comes with the following:
"dynamic processors and robust effect engineers"
I've never meet one of these guys. :lol:
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The manual is hard to find without signing up with Box. Here it is:
https://phonic.app.box.com/users-manual/1/286690741
Thanks! As I've mentioned I own a Phonic Summit/S16 so am quite interested in the Acapela - even though the misspelling of "a cappella" is a bit of a turnoff as is the fact that I'm still waiting for a (last?) promised update to the Summit/S16 that will be available "any day now" for the last two years or so x( .
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Looks like all the Phonic digital mixers have their aux sends post dynamics which makes them suck compared to the DL1608 with the its V2.0 firmware (any day now?). Also the Acapela only has 4 monitor sends. It does have individually selectable phantom but still has manual trim pots. Looks like it can record any two channels to a computer - but only two. In any case the Behringer iX16 looks like it kills it but it has been delayed for a redesign - they are adding to its presently announced functionality so it will really be worth the wait!
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I hear you but that's what makes forums invaluable for those that even know that they exist. Hopefully here you get a better picture of what you're buying into and get answers to some problems. Damn this thing sounds good and Mackie may have to reduce their price. For me I have a different criteria for the next buy if my current full X32 (studio usage) and the yet to be bought X32 rack and my current S16 will handle the gigs that I'm trying to cut back on big time (or kill it all together and not buy the rack).I really don't want to learn another mixer. The DL will be on the block (Xmas present time). For the next 2 weeks I'm working hard on retirement ALOHA. No d... mixer better find me there. My neighbor AMT Systems has had the Convention Center covered for at least a decade so and I'm in the audience for a change. I turned up the heat on Uli a bit (he gets paid the big bucks for that) on the phantom iX16. Waiting for a reply.
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Looks like all the Phonic digital mixers have their aux sends post dynamics which makes them suck compared to the DL1608 with the its V2.0 firmware (any day now?). Also the Acapela only has 4 monitor sends. It does have individually selectable phantom but still has manual trim pots. Looks like it can record any two channels to a computer - but only two. In any case the Behringer iX16 looks like it kills it but it has been delayed for a redesign - they are adding to its presently announced functionality so it will really be worth the wait!
From the manual all aux sends can be pre or post and with a choice of sequence on Dynamics, eq's, delay. The DSP process is broken up into 3 distinct operations individually selected and sequenced. The aux are really 6 two being fixed stereo (CNTRL Room out).
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Behringer guys (and Uli even) hang out over here:
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/4299-uli-behringer-music-group-q.html
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/5455-x16-preview.html
That's where it was just announced that the iX16 is being redesigned due to feedback from the market. Personally I hope they dump the idea of a DL1608 clone and make it a controlless 2U version of the Rack with all the I/O on the front :) .
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From the manual all aux sends can be pre or post and with a choice of sequence on Dynamics etc. The DSP process is broken up into 3 distinct operations individually selected and sequenced. The aux are really 6 two being fixed stereo (CNTRL Room out).
Check out the block diagram in the iS16 manual - you'll see that the control room outs are the same as the headphone out and dedicated to the solo system (as is true in most all mixers I've seen). And the pre-fader selection is just exactly that (always post EQ post dynamics). I was really hoping they would fix this which is why I was looking forward to a firmware update to the Summit/S16 but it seems they have decided to continue to screw that pooch x( .
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I'm talking about the Acapela not the iS16.
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Behringer guys (and Uli even) hang out over here:
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/4299-uli-behringer-music-group-q.html
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/5455-x16-preview.html
That's where it was just announced that the iX16 is being redesigned due to feedback from the market. Personally I hope they dump the idea of a DL1608 clone and make it a controlless 2U version of the Rack with all the I/O on the front :) .
Yup that's me grilling Uli. You don't like the idea of gaffer's tape? ;D
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Yup that's me grilling Uli. You don't like the idea of gaffers tape? ;D
Yah, we have fun over there arguing over nothin' sometimes. And it's Gaffa tape dammit >:D ;) :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape
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Getting late and I have a 5:30am trip to LAX what are you still doing up it's 10:30 pm in CA 1:30am your time.
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Getting late and I have a 5:30am trip to LAX what are you still doing up it's 10:30 pm in CA 1:30am your time.
I work from home, just had to get up to put the rugrat on the bus - she just started kindergarten. I'll be 71 when she graduates from high school :o . Working on an ARM based product at the moment, just some ongoing tweaks to the software - it's running a non-preemptive multitasking OS I wrote for it 8) . http://pulsarscientific.com/
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Seems like we have a few truly technical people on this forum...
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UPDATE: Still not in stock but I downloaded the iPad app (acapela16) and it seems to be OK. I would probably change some of the workflow but that's me. It appears to have all the controls for the mixer available. At $750 it's a new target price for this level mixer. It has more functionality than the DL. With availability now into Dec. it's still an unknown in the US. Support is being addressed and time will tell. The Warranty is now 3yrs. sound familiar? For those that want more analog the IS16 has a new price of $1500. Clearly a contender with others at this level. The X32 rack at $1500 is still way ahead in features and expandability.
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Looks good for the money, one problem for me is only 4 aux, we havea 5 piece band, so someone would have to share, also agree the app looks a bit amateurish
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Unless you downloaded the actual app I'll have to disagree with you Mackie's is more in line with your comment. You also have CTRL outputs for stage monitors aside from aux's. Looks can be deceiving work flow isn't. The comment about the app was for a previous version not the current one FYI.
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UPDATE:
The ever elusive arrival date for this mixer which should have been today 12/31/13 has now slipped to 1/24/? or maybe never. If I were trying to repair my reputation in the US or anywhere else for that matter I would not play these kind of games. Send all these marketing types back to school. Happy New Year 20xx Phonic. >:D
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I've pretty much given up on Phonic - they just seem to be uninterested in the US market.
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I would have to agree with that. The May 1 2013 hope for Phonic was supposed to have been Eric Schwartz, the Sales and Operations Manager for the US. Sounds like another vanishing act at Phonic. Grant_ponic if you ever come back here maybe you can enlighten us. They may just have too many MIA's.