Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: mauijet on July 22, 2014, 06:40:21 PM
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They are at summer NAMM and retailers now, and looking pretty good.
*edit...available in September...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TouchMix16/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&utm_term=DSA_-_Product&adpos=1t1&device=t&network=g&gclid=CMWx-InI2b8CFdKFfgodjo4Ayg
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Ok here's my take (as a happy, trouble free, touch wood, DL1608 owner). The Touchmix is still not available, it's 30% dearer (in the US) and, feature wise has a little more than the DL1608 (two stereo inputs, built in touch screen, more/better? fx). You'll still need an iPad (or possibly other tablet) to get the most out of it, it doesn't have remote gains and doesn't appear to have multitrack recording. The DL OTOH has given some problems (with later production units) with the dreaded white noise issue and disconnects. Both of these only seem to be an issue with the iPad docked. My DL has been pretty much trouble free and, while it lacks some stuff I'd like to have, it has always worked well, sounded great, is great to use and the MF app is the best out there (IMHO). The current crop of budget digital mixers (X32, QU16/24, DL1608) are all now reasonably well established, we can be confident any issues are well documented, the new stuff (SM Pro, QSC TM, Roland M200) don't yet have that pedigree (though I'd be prepared to gamble on the Roland) and could be afflicted by "Chinese manufactureritis" where the manufacturers substitute inferior components when the Western QC guys have gone home. I believe this may be the cause of Mackie's problems with the DL. Behringer claim to have overcome this issue by building their own factory (read "City") with their own guys in management. I'm a very happy owner of some QSC K12's (currently my favourite 1x12 powered tops) so I'd like to think QSC will get it right with the Touchmix.
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Sam right off the Touchmix features list:
Direct to hard-drive recording and playback of multi-track wave files. Capable of recording all input channels plus a user-selected stereo output pair.
Also it depends on whether you consider remote mobility (iPad) as an essential feature as to price compared to the DL. Could be more or less.
Still no manual or iPad app. :(
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Yes our band's DL has been pretty much trouble free as well. We use it mostly with the iPad undocked, and as I read here that it prevents some issues, I keep it that way. Even though it's counterintuitive!
The music and pro audio market has so many good and amazing products churning out, it's a great time. All the competition will be good. One thing that looked good to me on the QSC version is the (as they say) well researched and thought out presets. As an unsophisticated user (not a mixing engineer, just a guitarist), I find presets useful. Though I've heard here, how presets are worthless since you don't know any of the technical particulars of how they were preset!
Other nice things are direct in-ear monitoring from the board, the wifi dongle, and more aux outs.
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A quick pricing overview makes the two a wash.
Brand QSC-16 DL1608
Mixer cost 1299 999
Case inc 80
WiFi inc 99
iPad 399* 399
Total 1698 1577
*not essential for operation
$1299
Feature set wise the TouchMix wins.
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I love my qsc gear but the touch mix will fail. There are some cool features but no where near where some of its competition is. Even in a lower price class. Ie the rack. I said the md20 would fail. It did. It's being sold now for $799 at a lot of stores being clearances out. My local Sam ash has one in. No one wants it. The staff said they won't carry any more because they never sold. Guitar center is where I saw the 799 price. And what's with having the possibility of wireless control without programmable mic pres? You can't be higher priced than your competition and not offer some of its basic features. I hate to see a qsc product fail.
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Sam right off the Touchmix features list:
Direct to hard-drive recording and playback of multi-track wave files. Capable of recording all input channels plus a user-selected stereo output pair.
Also it depends on whether you consider remote mobility (iPad) as an essential feature as to price compared to the DL. Could be more or less.
Still no manual or iPad app. :(
Ah, I missed that :facepalm:
I don't know what the pricing in the UK will be but the DL1608 is now around £750, I'd expect the TouchMix to be more like £1300 (usually £=$ by the time a product reaches these shores). With an X32 Rack at £925 and Producer at £967 it'd be very hard to justify a change from my DL to the TM
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Sam I can see your point for an upgrade. If there is a must have feature in the TM that's not in the DL that may be the only incentive along with reliability for upgrading. For those with a clean slate however it's another matter. Then feature set, work flow, mix skill level and reliability need to be weighted. In that instance most would pick the TM. I see the TM to be DL's main competitor.
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You may be right, the advantages to me would be multitrack recording and the couple of extra stereo line inputs but, as the price is almost certainly going to be higher than the much better specified X32 Rack or Producer and pretty much the same (probably) as the X32 Compact it would be hard to justify. If I couldn't bring myself to buy a Berry then the A&H Qu16 is selling for £1400 and it trumps the TouchMix with a similar feature set and 17 real faders. I'd say that unless they get it into Europe for less than £1000 it won't sell.
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Forgot that the import tax and shipping are a mystery add on. Right now it should be £762 plus those magical numbers.
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Spoke to QSC today regarding the K series so while I had them I asked about availability of TouchMix and they are looking at end of September with a possible release of docs and Apps a week or two before that. The units are made in China and final Qc'd in CA. :( Oh definitely more than the iPad platform for the app. yeah!!!!
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You may be right, the advantages to me would be multitrack recording and the couple of extra stereo line inputs but, as the price is almost certainly going to be higher than the much better specified X32 Rack or Producer and pretty much the same (probably) as the X32 Compact it would be hard to justify. If I couldn't bring myself to buy a Berry then the A&H Qu16 is selling for £1400 and it trumps the TouchMix with a similar feature set and 17 real faders. I'd say that unless they get it into Europe for less than £1000 it won't sell.
Hey Sam,
Where can you get a QU16 at £1400?
I have an old MixWiz flightase that might get re-instated ;)
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You may be right, the advantages to me would be multitrack recording and the couple of extra stereo line inputs but, as the price is almost certainly going to be higher than the much better specified X32 Rack or Producer and pretty much the same (probably) as the X32 Compact it would be hard to justify. If I couldn't bring myself to buy a Berry then the A&H Qu16 is selling for £1400 and it trumps the TouchMix with a similar feature set and 17 real faders. I'd say that unless they get it into Europe for less than £1000 it won't sell.
Hey Sam,
Where can you get a QU16 at £1400?
I have an old MixWiz flightase that might get re-instated ;)
Ahh, Thomann I see..... :)
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Yup, nearly tempted but the X32 Producer still does so much more for over £400 less (and the s16 has 16 mic pre's for £600 where the AR84 only has 8 for £544) ::)
I definitely can't afford a Qu16 and two AR-84s at £2500, an X32 Producer and S16 comes in at under £1600 with pretty much identical hardware and double the features in the software. TBH, I'm waiting 'till my slowly increasing mixer fund and the decreasing price of the X32 Compact meet then I'll probably pull the trigger on a Compact as I don't see the point of buying a digital mixer without an LCD scribble strip (which removes the Qu from consideration anyway).
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Yup, nearly tempted but the X32 Producer still does so much more for over £400 less (and the s16 has 16 mic pre's for £600 where the AR84 only has 8 for £544) ::)
I definitely can't afford a Qu16 and two AR-84s at £2500, an X32 Producer and S16 comes in at under £1600 with pretty much identical hardware and double the features in the software. TBH, I'm waiting 'till my slowly increasing mixer fund and the decreasing price of the X32 Compact meet then I'll probably pull the trigger on a Compact as I don't see the point of buying a digital mixer without an LCD scribble strip (which removes the Qu from consideration anyway).
The scribble strips are not an issue for me, I have magnetic labels (template available for download) which are big, bright and far easier to read than a tiny LCD!
I can see the initial cost saving benefits of that brand but you know where I stand so I'll not bleat on lol ;)
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Yes but your mag labels don't change when you change layers, you need space for at least two on each channel and then you need to remember which label refers to which layer. My memory has always been bad and it ain't improving with age, I need all the help I can get :face palm:
If you don't nee scribble strips the X32Producer/S16 is £900 cheaper than the Qu16 (and 2 x AR84s), has the same number of faders/knobs etc and twice the I/O.
I am a confirmed Allen & Heath fan, I use iLive/GLD/Zed series at work and have a GL2200 as my studio desk, the Qu 16 is nice but didn't knock me out when I spent an hour playing in my local dealer. If the X32 showed signs of poor reliability or sound quality I wouldn't think twice about it and I'd buy the Qu but the X32 appears to be excellent on both counts so all the extra capability makes it a 'no brainer' to me.
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Yes but your mag labels don't change when you change layers, you need space for at least two on each channel and then you need to remember which label refers to which layer. My memory has always been bad and it ain't improving with age, I need all the help I can get :face palm:
If you don't nee scribble strips the X32Producer/S16 is £900 cheaper than the Qu16 (and 2 x AR84s), has the same number of faders/knobs etc and twice the I/O.
I am a confirmed Allen & Heath fan, I use iLive/GLD/Zed series at work and have a GL2200 as my studio desk, the Qu 16 is nice but didn't knock me out when I spent an hour playing in my local dealer. If the X32 showed signs of poor reliability or sound quality I wouldn't think twice about it and I'd buy the Qu but the X32 appears to be excellent on both counts so all the extra capability makes it a 'no brainer' to me.
I'll not try anymore of my sales pitch on you Sam ;)
Just as an FYI, to address the three layers on the QU24, I have smaller labels in the designated area for markers and a second set of labels beneath the faders - works great for me:)
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Having used the iLive and GLD I can't see myself buying a DMD without LCD scribble strips, as soon as you go to multiple layers, for me, they're worth their weigh in vintage Les Pauls (ah.... that's not many is it :lol:)
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I currently own a Touchmix 16 and I either got a lemon or Qsc is out to rip people off. In a span of one year since owning this unit, I've had to send it in for repair twice. First time the unit died in the middle of a show. We had ended the show early. Now I discovered this noise issue and they claim the damage is in excess of their warranty. Effing bs!!!
Recently I sent the mixer into QSC and the tech contacted a couple days later to tell me that the motherboard is all corroded. I need a new motherboard and is not covered under warranty.
Here is their reply:
"Original price for repair was set at $465.30 plus the labor of $85 and the shipping of $29 which totals: $579.30
The tech as a courtesy lowered the amount to be $375 even which is a $204.30 difference.
Unfortunately this unit repair will not be covered under our manufacture defect codes.
Please advise if you would like to move forward with the repair or have your unit sent back as is?
Thanks"
I should add that the mixer was bought a little over a year ago. It was registered with Qsc and has 2 years left on a 3-year warranty. I'm done with Qsc. Good luck to all you Qsc owners.
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I currently own a Touchmix 16 and I either got a lemon or Qsc is out to rip people off. In a span of one year since owning this unit, I've had to send it in for repair twice. First time the unit died in the middle of a show. We had ended the show early. Now I discovered this noise issue and they claim the damage is in excess of their warranty. Effing bs!!!
Recently I sent the mixer into QSC and the tech contacted a couple days later to tell me that the motherboard is all corroded. I need a new motherboard and is not covered under warranty.
Here is their reply:
"Original price for repair was set at $465.30 plus the labor of $85 and the shipping of $29 which totals: $579.30
The tech as a courtesy lowered the amount to be $375 even which is a $204.30 difference.
Unfortunately this unit repair will not be covered under our manufacture defect codes.
Please advise if you would like to move forward with the repair or have your unit sent back as is?
Thanks"
I should add that the mixer was bought a little over a year ago. It was registered with Qsc and has 2 years left on a 3-year warranty. I'm done with Qsc. Good luck to all you Qsc owners.
That's too bad. Are they claiming that the board was mistreated or stored improperly? I know of one sound tech on another forum that uses that board successfully on a regular basis.