Q: for beno (and company)

[robmcl]

I have to admit I thought I was going out on a limb when I started this thread.  I also didn't really expect to get a direct answer.  It was more of a conversation starter, or so I thought.
So thx very much Ben for addressing it head on and giving such an up-front and honest answer.  More than that though, just thx for taking the time to answer.
...Rob

[pytchley]

Sorry Beno just had to reply and it's about that bloody reverb yet again. Every other ipad mixer has decent reverbs. Even the cheepo Soundcraft has a Lexicon. VCAs are all very well (and welcome mainly for the DL32) but your reverb is inexcusably bad and anybody working with decent musicians is forced to find an alternative or is going to loose clients. So you dock an ipad and use someone elses reverb (the excellent AudioReverb in my case) but now you can't record and if you want to adjust a parameter you have to go and fiddle about on the side of the stage which as well as not being able to hear properly tends to induce undue paranoia with the talent. How hard is it to license something a little better? I reckon you're loosing a lot of sales over this, I certainly won't upgrade to a DL32 under these circumstances. It's such a shame, you were first on the market, the 1608's been very reliable (I've done hundreds of successful gigs with mine), sounds very good and the app is still the best. Please sort something out, I'm sure it'll pay for itself in no time by not loosing sales.

[Wynnd]

Maybe an extra cost option?  Money usually talks.  Me, I don't use very much effects.  If I can hear it with the entire band, it's too much.  So what is there works just fine for me.  (I consider a lot of reverb to be the crutch of the bad singer.)

[pytchley]

Hey Wyndd, look I'm sorry if my endless complaining about the hopeless reverbs pisses you off. You always reply to my posts saying you don't use much reverb, that it's somehow bad... You'll be hard pressed to find a sound system anywhere that doesn't have some reverb on the vocals, some on the snare a bit more on the brass etc. Imagine a flute or a violin without a bit of added ambiance. Even if it's not used as an effect when you close mic a source you remove the natural ambiance and need to replace it with...reverb. Maybe you only work in gymnasiums? So when you work with a DL everything is either going to be a bit dry, delayed (which can be great) or have a shit reverb on the end. Sad situation and suggesting we should pay extra to be able to get decent sound is just plain stupid.

[WK154]

There is an old product management saying (I forget who this is attributed to) that I'll paraphrase: "If we only ever listened to feature requests, we'd all be using the fastest horses and buggies instead of cars".

Of course feature requests are very important to us and we continue to chip away at them. But sometimes we add features for other reasons. This one in particular was actually something we wanted to do when we added VCAs in the first place with 3.0, but didn't quite get to in time for release. It is very helpful when setting up a system, helpful for trouble shooting and helpful for new users to learn how VCAs work. It was just the right amount of work to slot into 3.2 along with the 32 channel recording upgrade for DL32R, so we did it. And the response has been very positive.

The next major release will add some features that you all have been asking for, and will also add some features that no one has been asking for, but we think are really cool or have strategic importance for us. That's how product development work. Saying yes and saying no and saying not right now.

BenO so why are you selling us a horse and buggy when your customers, for the past two years, have been telling you that they want a car? Please don't invent any more useless eye candy when there are so many useful time tested features missing from this mixer series. Do you consider your customers lacking creative skills? I for one would like to hear about those other reasons for adding features. Dante won't help with the iPad control surface which leaves the DL32 on WiFi. Oh yes where is all that favorable response being given?

[Wynnd]

pytchley - not complaining about you.  I have a different approach and I'm not having a problem.  You've made your point and if Mackie makes changes that make you happy, that's not going to hurt me a bit.  It just becomes one more feature that I didn't pay extra for.  (And thank you Mackie for all the extra features for free.)

[musicdan]

An aspect it seems a lot of people overlook is the fact everyone uses the DL mixer in different ways. I read the feature requests all the time and they are all great requests... but only about 50% of them would actually be useful or important to me personally. For instance, I love the new VCA ghost overlays where someone else may not use VCA's at all. Some are more focused on presets and snapshots improvements, and I rarely ever recall a show. I personally can't wait to get my hands on a DL32r with a dante card so I can patch our keyboard player's MainStage 3 rig via network cable as well as route vocals and instruments to different effects and processors on my macbook. Some will never have any use for these features, as I have no use for some of the features currently available in master fader, only because my shows don't require them. There are many features I'd like to see happen but patients in key. At the end of the day the development team would likely choose the priority of features that will be useful to a wide array of DL owners across all different types of performances and venues , rather than provide features for very specific circumstances. If everyone was able to create their own custom mixer with only the features they wanted, that mixer would be only be 100% useful to the user who created it (and maybe 2 or 3 other people somewhere in the world). The idea here is to give a product that works for everyone on most levels, not some on every level. That can be said for pretty much any product money can buy!

Another overlooked aspect.... I would assume features that are quick and easy to add would likely be done ahead of the more complex time consuming endeavours until programmers can figure out a way to make them happen and/or have the time to do it. It would be like your wife saying "why did you just install that new faucet in the bathroom? I wanted you to remodel the kitchen!"

I bought the DL1608 soon after it was first released along with a very early (if not the first) version of Master Fader. Today, I can't imagine mixing a show on that first software version knowing what the thing can do now. The additions and improvements over the last few years have been fast paced and are still coming regularly. So before throwing Ben and everyone else at Mackie under the bus or threatening them with loosing your sale etc only because your prayers haven't been answered just yet, take a look back through the short life of the DL series to compare then and now, and just how far the DL series came in such a short time. 

[pytchley]

Very true Dan but everyone needs good reverb (except one unnamed person) and it's still shit.

[stevegarris]

I used to mix other people's systems or clubs only, and made very little money, and zero profit after gear purchases. I didn't want to invest in heavy gear, a large truck, dealing with the weight, etc. Thanks to the quality new powered boxes available today, and mixers like the DL, I now have a fully functioning side business providing PA rentals, lights and operator. I'm actually making money now.

The reverb is not as good as others I've used, but I still find it useable after some EQing. I'm doing a small concert series in a marina park this summer, so I've had a chance to really hear the effects. My system is working to its limits, and the sound is excellent. I bring the reverb up just until I can hear it, then ease it back a bit. The last show I used it with all vocals, snare, trumpet, sax and flute. Once I had my mix set up, everything sounded fantastic.
YMMV

[Rdmitch]

Just got home from tonight's show and made an extra effort to spend time listening to the eq on the board.
Overall, it was not so terrible. While I have had better, between the 2 reverbs and the delay I was able to add enough effects that sounded pleasing. Granted, this DL32 belongs to someone else so I did not attempt any radical changes to his settings, but I still tweeted a bit
I took a screen shot, but need to reduce it prior to posting it