Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Cobra Jet on September 27, 2016, 01:55:57 AM
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On a standard mixer you would have a set of headphones plugged into the board and could press the solo button to hear each individual channel. What is the best way to accomplish this with the DL1608 when it’s being used wireless?
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Using wireles headphone?
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Wireless IEM's - or just walk up to the mixer when you need to solo something.
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Wireless IEM's - or just walk up to the mixer when you need to solo something.
Wireless IEM seem expensive. Is there a different way to go that would only be between $100 to $150 besides directly at the mixer?
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Low Latency Bluetooth setups would be in your price range. Mostly sold for TV to headphone setups. Look for longer distance units.
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http://www.widigitalsystems.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=110_133&product_id=88
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This has been a item I have messed a bit with. Now that I have to worry a lot more about my hearing degrading any more I have been playing with a few options.
I want to be able to mix remote using headphones for a few reasons. First I like to zero in and tweak certain eq. points with the solo feature. I like to hear the mix thru the cans too. But even more important is the headphones when turned down....or off make really nice earmuffs to reduce volume evenly across the frequency range. I don't like the look of earplugs and other devices don't work well enough for me.
My latest try which seems to work so far is:
I bought a small Bluetooth transmitter for $40.00. This plugs into the DL headphone jack and sends the sound from the mixer to my active noise canceling Bluetooth headphones.
Once you pair the headphones to the transmitter everything comes thru phones, including the solo function. The phones have a volume control on them allowing me to adjust remotely. Let's me roam the room and use headphones. Once the mix is where I'm happy, I can kill the volume and have good hearing protection without looking like an A-Hole.
I used regular wireless headphones before with decent results, but wanted to try ones with active noise reduction to mask the audience noise a bit better.
Has anyone tried this before? Looking for tips.
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Rdmitch, I've tried that too, but alas, I still look like an A-hole.... Maybe that's just how I look... 😄
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I have not tried this, but will be very interested in trying this myself. FWIW, you can buy wireless headphones right out of the box - not sure about noise cancelling though.
Please let us know how it works out and what you end up with.
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The wireless have worked before, but I never could get the needed volume due to noisy people in the audience around me. Hence, wanting to try the active headphones that may be better at blocking surrounding noise.
I may try these at a show tomorrow but I'm using someone else's DL32 and may be pressed for time if I need to upgrade their stuff to 4.2.
Will keep you posted. In trying this at home I did notice a very minor delay in the headphones, it may not be an issue.
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Here’s the other side of the coin. What if you already have an expensive pair of wired noise cancelling headphones and want to use them for wireless monitoring from your FOH mixer? I presume you would need a BT transmitter plugged into the DL headphone jack and a BT receiver for your headphones, wherever you are located at the venue.
Feigning ignorance here, are there any such adapters out there that would work? I’ve already been Googling and have found some for the iPhone 7, to correct the lack of a physical headphone jack, but not for remote monitoring of the mix at venues.
Don’t really want to spend minimum $150.00 plus for a set of noise cancelling BT headphones plus a BT transmitter. Ugh!
Of course they could go on my Christmas List! :mrgreen:
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Listening to FOH at a distance with headphones was never good owing to the delay caused by the distance involved, the DL has a delay adjustment to help with this. Bluetooth, as well as it's poor quality sound caused by MP3 style compression, has it's own rather lengthy delay. If you add to that whatever horrors the noise cancelling does to the sound plus the fact that some of the noise cancelled is going to be the wanted sound from the FOH you are going to hear only a vague approximation of the sound actually leaving the DL. A radio based system is going to be better, no delay, less compression, but you still are only going to hear the mix as it leaves the DL not as it leaves the speakers so no good for mixing decisions only for troubleshooting using the solos. In the good old analogue days I do have to admit to occasionally wearing closed headphones with no signal in them to give my ears a break.
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Don't know if it would work, but the one I bought can be set to transmit or receive.
I set it to transmit the Bluetooth signal to my headset. Possibly a second one could be used to receive the signal. There is a stereo mini jack on the unit to plug in a headset. You may want to check out the specs. The problem I see would be how to pair these.
For my use, I just pair the headset to the transmitter, plug the line in to the transmitter from the board and I'm done.
I was going to use my wife's Dr. Dre headphones but thought I would be a dead man when I lost them. I have
a cheaper set of headphones I got on Amazon ($70.00) that are wireless Bluetooth that work pretty well.
Agree, the delay may be bothersome since I will hear some bleed from the mains. I hope to overcome this with
some volume and the closed back headphones. It may be impossible..so I have to check it out this weekend.
If it's a big fail, I won't be too upset since the parts were actually bought to use on my tv at home and using them on the DL was an afterthought. I have used regular wireless Sennheiser headphones with the DL before and they work okay, no issue with delay or distance, just not enough volume and they let a lot of audience noise in.
A big part was the "disguised " ear protection. No one really pays much attention to me when I'm wearing buds or phones since they see me around the stage and with the mixer. Pretty much once the mix is where I want it the rest of the night is smooth sailing other than doing effects and watching for IEM looks of desperation from the stage.
TaoTronics Bluetooth 4.1 Transmitter / Receiver, Wireless 3.5mm Audio Adapter (aptX Low Latency, Pair 2 At Once, For TV / Car Sound System, Volume Control)
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Too bad you can’t monitor the mix from within MF on your iPad from the pad’s headphone/audio out jack! How hard would that be to implement?
I suppose that would still require an audio signal having to be fed/transmitted from the DL into the iPad somehow. probably not physically possible. :(
Or to save money and go old school, you could sacrifice a pair of Aux outs, or just use the headphone jack (unique idea!) to run a physical connection back from the DL to a headphone amp. Thus defeating the whole purpose of why you bought a wireless digital mixer in the first place! OY! ::)
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Time to catch up with Bluetooth technology. Stating Apt-X is like saying mic and we all know were that leads. The Bluetooth/Apt-X route requires a device at both ends (transmitter and receiver to handle the codec) or it will revert back to SBC (lowest Bluetooth quality). Yes that's what your iPad/iPhone gets you today. The recently released (Jan 2016) CSR8675 SoC handles 24 bit 96khz audio. Not bad, here are the details.
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2016/10/24/qualcomm-aptx-hd-breaks-down-barriers-high-res-audio-over-bluetooth-adoption
Pricey today but that's the norm for new tech. Audio Technica, LG and others are producing headsets and transmitters using this tech.
Keep in mind that the purpose of headsets on mixers was more for solo monitoring and other setup functions, not to listen to FOH sound. That's what your ears are for. The DL delay serves no purpose in this since delay is the problem, also if you're that far away from the source what's the point?
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Overall the experiment was only partially successful.
While the concept worked with using the Bluetooth transmitter to get a signal to the wireless headphones, the delay was too extreme to overcome in last nights test.
I think this was a lot in part to the particular venue and the volume of the players. Since the room was so live, and the drummer so fierce (my nice way of saying too loud) I had only vox and some guitar thru the FOH. For the most part drums, bass and a lot of the guitar needed no reinforcement from the system and the faders were off. When listening thru phones, the slight delay on vox just didn't mesh with what I had to hear coming off the stage
In our usual outdoor and large club venues when everything comes thru the mains the delay may not be as bad givin that I would hear everything with the same delay.
Purpose was not to "mix" with phones but to be able to block the overall volume and still be able to make some tweaks if needed to individual instruments.
Will retry at a larger venue and will still try the regular, standard, non- Bluetooth wireless phones and try bump the volume up a bit.
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Overall the experiment was only partially successful.
While the concept worked with using the Bluetooth transmitter to get a signal to the wireless headphones, the delay was too extreme to overcome in last nights test.
I think this was a lot in part to the particular venue and the volume of the players. Since the room was so live, and the drummer so fierce (my nice way of saying too loud) I had only vox and some guitar thru the FOH. For the most part drums, bass and a lot of the guitar needed no reinforcement from the system and the faders were off. When listening thru phones, the slight delay on vox just didn't mesh with what I had to hear coming off the stage
In our usual outdoor and large club venues when everything comes thru the mains the delay may not be as bad givin that I would hear everything with the same delay.
Purpose was not to "mix" with phones but to be able to block the overall volume and still be able to make some tweaks if needed to individual instruments.
Will retry at a larger venue and will still try the regular, standard, non- Bluetooth wireless phones and try bump the volume up a bit.
Based on what you experienced tells me that you where not getting low latency Apt-X due to the headphones. As I stated before both ends MUST BE Apt-X low latency unit's otherwise the units will drop back to SBC and NOT low latency. That means your 20 -40 ms delay in latency goes to 150 + ms. Taking your distance from the stage where you encountered this (unknown), the direct sound would be delayed at 1 ms per foot and reflected sound longer. If the venue acoustics were too reflective the Sabin line would be very close to the stage add high loudness to this ( a band problem) and you have a mess far worst than delay issues. No amount of mixing will fix that. Simply put this should have delayed sound to your position ( which you didn't state) but as you experienced, clearly not enough, telling me your delay is due to the non Apt-X connection. Manufacturers have a bad habit these days of misleading their customers all too frequently in their advertising and their specs. Your larger and outdoor venues experienced far less reflected sound hence giving a cleaner sound but still with the delay of non low latency. So before we dismiss Bluetooth as a usable way to remote monitor, the right equipment should be used.