Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: JMc on August 09, 2015, 02:06:01 PM
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Last night during our gig, I named the "song" to be recorded "08-08-15" and hit record. Went back to the main mix screen. Sometime later, I noticed the red "recording" light was no longer lit, so I went back into the record panel and tried starting the recording again. No luck. I pressed the button to "eject" the disc, waited for it to reboot and once indicating "ready" tried the record button yet again. Nope. I couldn't reboot the DL32R because I control the mixer from the stage and we're in the middle of a set. In the recording section, under the HDD, it's indicating "ready". The only think I could think of was perhaps my 2T drive was already full? How can that be? And if so, shouldn't there be some sort of indicator for that?
I haven't recorded that many shows on it and after recording the first two shows, it barely made a dent in the storage I had left. So for the moment, I am at a loss and feeling very perplexed. We had a great concert last night and it's killing me that either little or none of it recorded. I was trying to see if there was a way to erase some recordings already on the disc in order to test to see if storage capacity was indeed the problem, but could see no way of doing so. I also tried selecting a previous recording and hit record again, in the hopes of adding to it or writing over it, again, no dice. The red recording light never came on again and I could see that no recording had commenced from the timer in the recording window. So I was forced to give up. I guess my takeaway from this is that I would like some future version of MF to show the current capacity of the drive that is connected and the ability to easily erase a recording from within MF if that's what you really want to do. At this writing, I still have no idea what the problem was.
The second glitch occurred at the beginning of a song. I had another window up with my set list on it, and noticed that my acoustic guitar player was not coming through. WTH? As soon as I brought MF back to the front on the iPad, figuring the acoustic channel must have been muted (the only logical conclusion so long as the guitar was plugged in), the acoustic channel came to life and un-muted all by itself, as soon as MF synced up again with the DL32R.
Very weird. Thoughts on either or both problems I rant into? This is the first time I've had any issues at all after about 10 gigs using this mixer.
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Are you doing all the necessary things like force closing all the programs on the iPad and then rebooting it at the gig before you start? Shutting of Wifi autoconnect and deleting all known networks? Have a read through the FAQs here...
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Are you doing all the necessary things like force closing all the programs on the iPad and then rebooting it at the gig before you start? Shutting of Wifi autoconnect and deleting all known networks? Have a read through the FAQs here...
I had no idea I had to "force close" all the programs on the iPad and reboot it at the gig before I start. News to me. I don't even know what "force close" means, frankly, but I assume that rebooting the iPad would have the same effect anyway. The only open programs I had on the iPad were SetList Maker and Master Fader, just like every show I've done before. BTW, just checked the HDD and see that I have 1.64 T left in storage, so clearly that wasn't the issue and I was able to play back recordings from the drive during intermission as well, so there didn't seem to be any communication problems between my iPad and my network. Wifi auto-connect is indeed shut off. I'll check the FAQ's, but I'm not optimistic of ever knowing for sure what the problem was/is, particularly since I only see an FAQ for the DL-1608 and not the DL32R.
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The iPad is a wonderful machine - it reboots and everything that was running when it was rebooting starts right back up. Sometimes in the same "broken" state as before the reboot. I'm not sure, but I imagine it just saves a snapshot of the running image and reloads it on top of the OS.
I have several apps that I have to force to close and then restart.. Here's how:
If an app is unresponsive and your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch still reacts to button presses, you can force the app to close:
Press the Home button two times quickly. You'll see small previews of your recently used apps.
Swipe left to find the app you want to close.
Swipe up on the app's preview to close it.
Sometimes my iPad 2 tablets will freak out and just not work well - I do a hard reboot on them and fixes them, usually:
Here’s how to perform a hard reboot:
— Hold down the Power and Home buttons at the same time for close to 10 seconds.
— Ignore the Slide to Power Off bar across the top of the screen when it appears and just keep holding the two buttons until you see the iPad screen go black and then see the Apple logo on the screen as it restarts.
Hope that helps.
For what it's worth, my iPad Air 2 has a lot less problems, a LOT less.
Good luck.
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Also, don't rule out the hard drive being the issue. My business is IT, we work with the SMB market and I see LOTS AND LOTS of USB hard drive problems. Many manufacturers of USB drives put the slowest, cheapest drive they can into that enclosure. You don't exactly know what you are getting in some cases.
They might not have sustained write speeds, they might spin down when there is no activity (power saving, battery saving, etc) all on their own. It just might not be a good mix for our environment.
When I was selecting the drive to use for my new DL32R last week, I went for a USB 3.0 7200RPM drive. But at the gig on Friday, I used a slower USB drive, and it seemed to work okay.
I'm SURE that Mackie has some specs and recommendations (which I should have read but didn't).
And two last things - even brand new drives fail. A bad sector could be enough to cause a glitch. So you might try another drive if you have this issue again. Lastly.. .FORMAT IT from the mackie... That will insure it is happy with the drive format.
Good luck!
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Thanks for the replies, John. I think more was at play than just the hard drive. I brought it in, connected it, and it isn't showing errors. It's a 3.0 USB Seagate Passport with a shock case and doesn't get banged around at all. That, plus the weird thing happening with the channel that was never muted coming back to life when I brought the Master Fader App front and center. Another forum member and local buddy of mine suggested that it might have to do with memory resources being eaten up by some of the other apps I have on the iPad and that functions in MF allocating that memory might have been the difficulty. Given what I now know, I will do a hard reboot before every gig. Not a huge deal. It HAD been several days since the last hard reboot, so I supposed there could have been at least two or three other apps running in the background that I wasn't aware of. Hope that takes care of it! I'd still like to see improvements to the MF app and if it's not getting the resources it needs, there should be some way of indicating that so a failure like the one I experienced can be prevented. Either that, or make it so MF SEIZES whatever resources it needs from other apps that might be running in the background.
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Thanks for the replies, John. I think more was at play than just the hard drive. I brought it in, connected it, and it isn't showing errors. It's a 3.0 USB Seagate Passport with a shock case and doesn't get banged around at all. That, plus the weird thing happening with the channel that was never muted coming back to life when I brought the Master Fader App front and center. Another forum member and local buddy of mine suggested that it might have to do with memory resources being eaten up by some of the other apps I have on the iPad and that functions in MF allocating that memory might have been the difficulty. Given what I now know, I will do a hard reboot before every gig. Not a huge deal. It HAD been several days since the last hard reboot, so I supposed there could have been at least two or three other apps running in the background that I wasn't aware of. Hope that takes care of it! I'd still like to see improvements to the MF app and if it's not getting the resources it needs, there should be some way of indicating that so a failure like the one I experienced can be prevented. Either that, or make it so MF SEIZES whatever resources it needs from other apps that might be running in the background.
When you connected your portable drive to your computer, did you check to see how much storage was left? The DL32R records in WAV files, and those are very large. I have a 1T drive, and it is about 3/4 full already, and I have recorded maybe 10 full shows on it.
Also, what model iPad do you have? Many users report that the older models do not work as well as the new models with the DL32R. You should also check your iPad to see how much capacity it has left after all the programs and apps you have loaded on it. I bought a new iPad Air once I got my new DL32R and have not had any problems like you have described.
Personally, I would not try to use my iPad for other programs during a show. Changing back and forth from Master Fader to other programs or apps will leave you unable to make fast sound adjustments if something gets out of hand.
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I carry 2 iPads to all gigs with the DL1608. One for actual wireless operation (iPad Air 2) and the other is docked (iPad 2) in case of wireless pooch out. Then I have an iPod Touch for music playback via AirPlay. Absolutely ludacris dollar wise, but practical if I want the show to run without problems, barring any bizarre incidents of course. :)
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I carry 2 iPads to all gigs with the DL1608. One for actual wireless operation (iPad Air 2) and the other is docked (iPad 2) in case of wireless pooch out. Then I have an iPod Touch for music playback via AirPlay. Absolutely ludacris dollar wise, but practical if I want the show to run without problems, barring any bizarre incidents of course. :)
Wait, you can dock the iPad to the DL32R with that USB port on the back??? Does it charge it too?
I'm I realize that this confirms that I didn't read ANY manuals, I know ;)
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Wait, you can dock the iPad to the DL32R with that USB port on the back??? Does it charge it too?
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=1033.0
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Wait, you can dock the iPad to the DL32R with that USB port on the back??? Does it charge it too?
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=1033.0
Oh, I see.... Old iPad 2 would be a hodgepodge hack... 30pin to usb, to powered hub to usb to ethernet, yada yada.... (Or build the all-in-one solution)....
The newer iPad might be a snap with straight lightning->ethernet.... http://redpark.com/lightning-ethernet-cable/
Oh well..... Thanks.
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Upon further inspection of my iPad (iPad 2, BTW), there were a %$!#load of apps that were apparently in need of force closing. I'm just going to chalk it up to memory allocation being the problem I encountered the other night and hope that a hard boot takes me back to a happy place for our next show. I'll find out soon enough. Got a gig on Friday... Fingers crossed. Sheesh. I hasten to add that up until this incident, I had used the same iPad with the DL32R and had ZERO issues, so I am optimistic that the force close / hard boot solution is probably all I really need. Thanks for all the education and input. Cheers.
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Upon further inspection of my iPad (iPad 2, BTW), there were a %$!#load of apps that were apparently in need of force closing. I'm just going to chalk it up to memory allocation being the problem I encountered the other night and hope that a hard boot takes me back to a happy place for our next show. I'll find out soon enough. Got a gig on Friday... Fingers crossed. Sheesh. I hasten to add that up until this incident, I had used the same iPad with the DL32R and had ZERO issues, so I am optimistic that the force close / hard boot solution is probably all I really need. Thanks for all the education and input. Cheers.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes....
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I carry 2 iPads to all gigs with the DL1608. One for actual wireless operation (iPad Air 2) and the other is docked (iPad 2) in case of wireless pooch out. Then I have an iPod Touch for music playback via AirPlay. Absolutely ludacris dollar wise, but practical if I want the show to run without problems, barring any bizarre incidents of course. :)
Wait, you can dock the iPad to the DL32R with that USB port on the back??? Does it charge it too?
I'm I realize that this confirms that I didn't read ANY manuals, I know ;)
I did say I dock my iPad to a DL1608 Sorry if I wasn't too clear on that fact. And there should be some way of physically connecting an iPad to the DL32, just sayin' 8) But maybe you were just having a little fun, maybe? :mrgreen:
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Upon further inspection of my iPad (iPad 2, BTW), there were a %$!#load of apps that were apparently in need of force closing.
Apple swears you should never need to "force close" anything. The rest of us swear at Apple ;) .
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I did say I dock my iPad to a DL1608 Sorry if I wasn't too clear on that fact. And there should be some way of physically connecting an iPad to the DL32, just sayin' 8) But maybe you were just having a little fun, maybe? :mrgreen:
DOH! I totally missed the 1608 part.... I'm sorry... Was not paying attention.
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personally, I would NEVER run Set List Maker while running Master Fader.
I would bet money if "Set List Maker" was not running,.... your recording would have never stopped.
Set List Maker is a wonderful app, but too intense for the iPad to share resources. Of course the iPad really does not have much to do with recording it's digital audio to a USB drive once it is started,...
but
who
knows.
Actually I do know someone who does know, and his name is Ben Olswang. :)
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I did say I dock my iPad to a DL1608 Sorry if I wasn't too clear on that fact. And there should be some way of physically connecting an iPad to the DL32, just sayin' 8) But maybe you were just having a little fun, maybe? :mrgreen:
DOH! I totally missed the 1608 part.... I'm sorry... Was not paying attention.
That's okay! "Don't worry, be happy!" as they say. 8)
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Time to add a sad and exceedingly frustrating post script to this post.... So, at our gig last night, I made sure to cold boot the iPad. I went to set up recording, and initially could not get it to record, once again. I created another new name for the song, pressed record and voila! The red light lit, and stayed lit for the entire set. After the set, I stopped recording and switched to playback the intermission songs. Stopped those as we went back on stage, hit "record" again, and was again rewarded with the little red light. Went back to the channel strip view and still saw it lit. A-OK! Repeated for the next set and finally, at the end of the show, stopped the recording and played the intermission music again, pleased that I had a recording of the entire show safely tucked away on my hard drive. This morning, I disconnect the drive from the DL32R, plug it into my computer, and alas, the song name assigned last night is nowhere to be seen on the mostly empty drive. I couldn't believe my eyes. I even checked inside all the other folders to see if somehow the recording was initiated inside an existing folder. Nope. Nada. Zip. Gone. To say I am disappointed is a massive understatement. I SAW it recording. It WAS recording. Yet, the folder containing the files is NOT THERE.
I had chalked up my earlier recording problems with resource allocation on the iPad because too many apps were running in the background that I was unaware of. The ONLY two apps I had running last night was Master Fader and Set List Maker, because I'm also active on stage and felt like it would be nice to be able to refer to the set list on the iPad rather than having to print it on paper. So even though it WAS recording, something went south somewhere. I'll do our next gig with ONLY Master Fader running and if that solves the problem, then we know that Set List Maker was somehow culpable....
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Actually I do know someone who does know, and his name is Ben Olswang. :)
Since you know him, would you ask him?
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I did, and am hopeful that he will help you with this.
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I did, and am hopeful that he will help you with this.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
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let's hope it gets figured out :)
I got your PM's just now,
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Hey JMc, sorry you are having issues.
First off you can rule our anything to do with the iPad. The recording mechanism in the DL32R has nothing to do with a fast or slow, stable or flaky iPad.
I would absolutely suspect the hard drive first. Have you tried a different drive? Please do that and see if the behavior is the same or different. Please try a different size and different manufacturer. I know it's a pain but hard drives can be bad even when they seem good and two drives that appear to have the same specs from the same manufacturer can in fact be different.
It's hard to recommend a particular hard drive given the vast variety of drives available. Even models from known manufacturers change the internal workings without any notification. We do have some basic drive requirements listed in the Master Fader 3.0 manual page 191 and the DL32R Hardware manual page 20.
USB – HDD Recording / Playback Drive Requirements:
Connection: USB 2.0 High Speed (as a host)
Connector: USB-A
Audio: 1-24 channel, 48 kHz, 16/24-bit (multichannel .wav)
Supported Devices: USB 2.0 / 3.0 Class Compliant HDD
HDD Format: FAT32
Bus Power: 5V, 1A max
Please refer to those pages for more details. We've tested with many drives of these types without issues but of course we cannot test them all nor guarantee that every single drive will work with the DL32R.
Also, and this is recommended for all, please format the drive with the DL32R itself. Not with a Mac or Windows PC. This is imperative for good performance.
If the issues are the same with all drives tested, next step would be to force update the mixer, just to be sure all the latest and greatest firmware is installed correctly.
Force Update Instructions
0. Be sure you iPad has the latest version of Master Fader and is set to never go to sleep (auto lock set to never)
1. Turn OFF the DL series mixer.
2. Connect the Wi-Fi Router to the mixer and turn on the router.
3. Connect the iPad to the Wi-Fi router.
4. Press and hold the force update button while powering on the mixer.
For DL806/1608: The button is on the rear panel between the network and power connectors.
For DL32R: The button is on the front next to the Network LED.
5. Release the force update button after 5 seconds.
6. Go to Tools>Devices in Master Fader and select the wireless DL mixer which will be listed in update mode
7. After several seconds, a popup will appear in Master Fader asking you to confirm the update. Press "Yes, update" to approve it and the update will continue. This will take up to 15 minutes.
8. After the update, the mixer restarts. Note that after the mixer says it is finished, it actually still has one small update to finish to work properly. Wait about a minute before attempting to connect the iPad.
It should now work properly wired and wireless.
If none of this helps, I would contact support directly.
techmail@mackie.com
www.mackie.com/support/
800.898.3211
425.487.4333
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Thanks very much for the reply, Ben. I had the pleasure of meeting you a NAMM a couple of years back. You're a good cat.
Please know, that the drive I have meets all the specs, was formatted with the DL32R, and recorded about a dozen shows flawlessly before my problems began. It is a Seagate USB 3.0 Backup Plus Slim 2T with shock case. I have deleted all the files on this drive and will reformat with the mixer AFTER I force update the DL32R per your instructions.
I am hoping against hope that this solves the problem. It's very good to know that it wasn't the iPad that is causing the issue, because I find it convenient to be able to refer to my set list or Master Fader, as the moment dictates while on stage, but just the same, I am going to run the iPad with ONLY Master Fader open at our gig this Friday and see how it goes. I may also just try a completely different HDD. I'll report back here... Thanks again. Cheers.
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Sounds like a good plan. Again, just because the specs are met and the drive appears to work well in other ways, there are still ways it could fail in the DL32R. So trying another drive will definitely help you rule that out.
The reason the iPad is definitely not the culprit is that the recording mechanism on the DL32R has it's own dedicated processor. It merely sends status back to the iPad.
Let us know how it goes.
Ben
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8. After the update, the mixer restarts. Note that after the mixer says it is finished, it actually still has one small update to finish to work properly. Wait about a minute before attempting to connect the iPad.
I'm wondering if this might not be something significant, because when I did the last firmware update, I had no way of knowing this, and most likely connected the iPad immediately after the "finished" message. Hmmmm. I will try a different drive brand and size, however. They're cheap enough.
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Possibly. That last bit is indeed the recording processor firmware. It updates After the restart. One note, when you force update, don't have a Hard Drive connected and connect it only after waiting that last waiting period.
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Well, during the last update, I would have had the drive connected, also. Very interesting. This is good stuff. And Ben, I don't want you to get the wrong impression. These little problems I've had (which we are hopefully on our way to solving together) in no way dampens my extreme enthusiasm for this mixer. It has been a dream come true for me to be able to record every track and be able to mix down our performances to incredible 5.1 or 2.0 stereo masters. And the power and features of the DL32R boggles my mind. I absolutely love it.
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Possibly. That last bit is indeed the recording processor firmware. It updates After the restart. One note, when you force update, don't have a Hard Drive connected and connect it only after waiting that last waiting period.
BenO maybe you can enlighten us with the process Mackie has in place for updating firmware. I ask because there are many places where corruption in data can occur. Download over the Internet and then the transfer via WiFi to the DL. What checks and balances are in place and where? For instance if you use UDP what additional checks are in place?
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The firmware files is copied over to the mixer and then compared with a CRC to make sure they made intact. If so, the update proceeds.
If something goes wrong with an update, there is always a fall back. There is a duplicate slimmed down version of the OS in a section of flash that can't be updated. The mixer can boot into that and then do a full update. So if there is corruption preventing the main OS from loading, it boots into this alternate OS and asks for an update. This is what you are booting into when you do a Force Update.
Bottom line, is that you shouldn't be able to brick a machine and this has proven very solid in the field.
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Okay, so I did as you suggested, Ben. Did the force update on the mixer, which cleared out all my shows and so forth. When I reconnected the iPad, out of force of habit, I chose to use the show from the DL32 rather than the iPad, so now I have a nice, clean slate of... No shows. No problem, I reasoned. I backed up my shows to Dropbox! Nice! However, under settings when I go to import/export settings, the only option for importing the settings is from iTunes, which I never backed up to in the first place. I don't even know if I have iTunes on my iPad. How come I cannot import them back from my Dropbox account? Or, more practically speaking, how do I get my settings saved elsewhere, back into my DL32R?
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Just go to the Dropbox app itself, find the backup and choose Open In. That will restore it to Master Fader.
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Yeah. Just got off the phone with Jason at tech support. Got it. Any special reason why I can't just import it from dropbox in Master Fader settings? Not a huge deal now that I know how to do it. Just thought it was kind of a weird way to have to restore the file... Thanks.
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They way it works now is the way iOS originally wanted it done. It's confusing I agree. They have changed this model now with the iCloud drive. So this should be something we can improve on in the future.
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Thanks once again for all of the help... I've reformatted the drive from the DL32R, ejected the disc, recreated the Music and Recordings directories and re-loaded my intermission music on the PC and then reloaded the HDD. I feel confident that everything should be okay. I also thought of another step I missed that might explain some problems as well... I have rarely used the "eject" button in the recording session to eject the HDD. I just turn everything off, then unplug the drive after I get home to connect to the computer. I'll get myself in the habit of always pressing "eject" before I power down. The big test will be Friday at our next show. I feel confident that things will work just fine again.
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So what's stopping you from a test BEFORE your gig on Friday?
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Yeah definitely test before if possible. Maybe an overnight recording tonight?
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Well, I did test it after all of that, but I only recorded a few seconds of dead air. Seems to be working , file saved, etc. BUT - I'm more interested in recording in an actual real-world situation where I'm recording the whole set, maybe switching to the set list app, switching back to master fader, stopping the recording at the completion of the first set, playing intermission music, stopping the intermission music after the break, resuming recording the next set, etc. So the REAL test will be Friday. But I am feeling pretty good at this point. I guess there's no harm in dry running through a "test set" between now and then.
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Sounds like a plan. FYI, I'm out of town until Tuesday with poor internet so if you need help ASAP, contact tech support again.
Good luck.
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Will do, and thank you again for your personal attention and assistance, Ben. I'm looking forward to reporting back with some good news after our Friday and/or Saturday gigs. Have a great weekend. :thu:
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ALWAYS use the "Eject" before unplugging it or shutting off it's power.
:)
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ALWAYS use the "Eject" before unplugging it or shutting off it's power.
:)
I've never done that, and never had a problem. What is the advantage of ejecting it before powering down?
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from the WWW...
(http://mactips.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/eject-disc-02.jpg)
The computer needs to do some filing and housekeeping on every drive. If you unplug without warning that housekeeping can be missed or go wrong and your files may be corrupted or damaged.
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Just like your USB thumb drive too, you can remove it 9 times out of ten from the computer without ejecting it properly, but that 10th time, the drive will be corrupted, cause the OS hasn't quite finished dealing with it yet.
Sometimes you lose some files and worst they become totally fried. At least with a USB hard drive you can repartition and format it. I learned way back, after toasting a few thumb drives to eject them first. No more problems.
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I'm pleased to report that last night, everything seems to have recorded just fine. I checked the recording periodically during the show and stopped and started the recording process several times, at the conclusion and beginning of each set. I see the files on the drive and made sure to hit "eject" before powering down. I've got another show tonight, so I haven't actually offloaded the files into my sound editor yet, but I feel confident that they're all there and everything is fine again.
I want to thank all of you for the tips and particularly Ben for isolating the problem away from the iPad and for providing a clear path for troubleshooting and restoring proper function. I admit that I have not been the best about doing "eject", but I will be certain to get into the habit. We had a great set last night, so I'm excited to hear what we've got on there. Again, sincere thanks to all. I LOVE, LOVE LOVE this mixer.
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that's great news JMc !!!!
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I hope everything went according to plan last night. It would be informative if the cause of your problem could be identified at this stage. This would give others a heads up. Can you state what physical hardware if any you changed out? Any procedure you may remember doing differently? Here are my thoughts on what transpired and possible remedies.
BenO your otherwise excellent manual may need some fine tuning. This was brought out by some of your instructions to solve this issue. The MF update and firmware update instructions need to include timing information. For example:
"Here’s how to force a firmware update: first, turn the mixer off. Now, with a bent paperclip, poke the force
update button, then power up the mixer with the button depressed. The mixer will boot and you will be
prompted with an update bubble the next time an iPad with the Master Fader app is turned on."
Makes no mention of the hold time of 5 seconds or warns about waiting a minute or two after the update signals it's finished and really isn't. I wouldn't hesitate to use red for text this important. Of course it will only help those that read manuals. ;)
On the recording and finalizing the disk although they are mentioned it may be best to stress their importance and the reasons behind this will usually reinforce the importance. Conventionally stop/finalize was sufficient to finalize CD/DVD recordings and Toc were written. Since we are talking about a file system (Fat32) and uLinux there may be buffers that need to be written to disk. If I had what I asked for over two years ago from Mackie and you promised to send I might have a better insight to this mechanism ;)
In conclusion I am not ruling out a problematic download and firmware install process since the solution over many a version of MF over the years has been to reload MF. This can only mean that on occasion errors occur during this process. CRC's are a weak verification if that's what your using.
For those interested in the finer details of Fat32 here is a good overview.
http://www.go-embedded.com/FAT32%20article.pdf
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I hope everything went according to plan last night. It would be informative if the cause of your problem could be identified at this stage. This would give others a heads up. Can you state what physical hardware if any you changed out? Any procedure you may remember doing differently?
There have been no physical hardware changes. HOWEVER, when I first discovered the missing recordings that I thought were there, I ran a check on the HDD and it turned up a few errors. I had the errors corrected in the hopes that the files would then appear, but no such luck. While I used the same HDD, I did reformat it with the DL32R after rebooting the mixer. I then hit "eject", plugged it into my PC, dragged the previously saved "Music" folder back onto the drive with my recordings for intermission, and then I created a new "Recordings" folder.
I think the biggest takeaway that I got from this was the bit about needing an additional minute for the firmware to update after it says it's ready... THAT is something that definitely should be added to the manual. Because I am all but certain whenever I updated the firmware last, I didn't wait a minute before launching the app. I also was not in the habit of "ejecting" the HDD before powering down at the end of each show.
So in conclusion, I think the latter two items were the most important - wait after the firmware updates for a good minute after you *think it's ready to go and get in the habit of ejecting the HDD before powering down. Last night's show recorded with no discernible problems, but again, I haven't had the chance to offload the files yet, but remain confident that they are just fine.
UPDATE: I've started mixing down some tracks from the shows. All is right in my world, again. Hallelujah!
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Great! Glad everything is working.
And we'll look at adding more detail to that section in the next manual update.
Thanks
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Im sure your manual authors will find a way to put a humorous spin on the revision.
Possibly skull and crossbones warning if you don't eject and format properly
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Well... $%&@!! So, after the last two recorded shows, I removed the drive from my PC, re-installed the drive to the DL32R and waited for it to scan and mount for last night's show. I named the new show Euro090415, hit record, and all was fine. I noticed the counter advancing and the red record light was on. I stopped recording after each set, played the intermission music, resumed recording for each subsequent set. After the show, I stopped the recording, it verified that I wanted to stop. I said yes, and after it was finished cycling, I hit EJECT before powering down the mixer.
I just brought the hard drive inside, plugged it into the PC and guess what? NO SHOW FROM LAST NIGHT is in the folder list. The previous two shows I recorded are there, but not the one from last night, Right clicked the drive UNchecked "automatically fix" and scanned for errors and here's what I got:
(http://www.mrsjonesrevenge.com/images/Drive-Error.png)
I haven't done anything else at this point. But I'm more than a little frustrated to be having this problem again after I thought everything was sorted. Must I reformat the drive every time I use it? Why would it show that it is recording and everything is fine, yet when I put the drive in the PC, there's no folder with the files???
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Well at this point repair is you only choice, what do you have to loose. After that I would send it back to Mackie and tell them you need one that works. El'Limon as far as I'm concerned unless they admit that it's a software problem.
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I may have to. Something isn't right here... I think it's software based, because I really didn't have any problems before the last firmware update. Now something is corrupting the drive. The most frustrating aspect for me is that it appeared to be working and recording just fine. Until I went to look for the folder after ejecting. I hope Ben sees this latest wrinkle and can weigh in... If not, I'm calling tech support on Tuesday.
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Jeff, Were you able to play around with it after we spoke yesterday? (i.e. formatting the drive in Windows, ejecting then connecting to DL). I know Mackie suggests formatting from MF, but FAT32 is FAT32. I think they suggest that because people don't always eject their drives from the PC and doing so may corrupt files (write cache enabled). It's tough to check your recordings during a short break also. I know Ben mentioned to you about after applying firmware to leave the unit alone for a few minutes after getting the "Firmware Complete" status. If this has been an issue since the latest firmware upgrade, then maybe it needs to be reflashed or there is a bug in the latest version in regards to recording (hard to say). Based on the CHKDSK you ran yesterday, something is corrupting the File Allocation Table. I think when I move to the DL32R, I'm going to use SSD's. Has anyone who owns a DL32R tried a memory stick? I just bought a 128G SanDisk for $30 US. Jeff, I was curious how much of the 1TB drive your using between your break music and recordings. One other thought is noise. Since the drive gets it's power from the DL, is there an issue there?
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I've been following this thread with interest as a DL32R user. I record nearly all of the shows I do as a sound engineer for various bands and so far, have never had any problems. Until now I wasn't aware that it might be necessary to 'eject' the HDD from the mixer before shutdown. That is something I had never done before. I do however, eject it from my PC whenever it's connected to that. Over last weekend I recorded two full shows with two different bands, and did not eject the HDD either time. No issues, and the recordings came out fine.
From what I can tell, the OP is still using the same HDD that is having issues. Might be time to try a different drive. If the same issues occur, then it would positively be the unit or software that is causing the problems. If not, then it's the drive that is the issue.
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I've been following this thread with interest as a DL32R user. I record nearly all of the shows I do as a sound engineer for various bands and so far, have never had any problems. Until now I wasn't aware that it might be necessary to 'eject' the HDD from the mixer before shutdown. That is something I had never done before. I do however, eject it from my PC whenever it's connected to that. Over last weekend I recorded two full shows with two different bands, and did not eject the HDD either time. No issues, and the recordings came out fine.
From what I can tell, the OP is still using the same HDD that is having issues. Might be time to try a different drive. If the same issues occur, then it would positively be the unit or software that is causing the problems. If not, then it's the drive that is the issue.
Always a "Best Practice" to eject drives (PC or DL) since if a write is happening in the background, file corruption may occur. Also, I don't rely on drive lights to tell me if a drive is being read or written to.
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Also, when I was on the phone with Jeff (JMc) and had him run CHKDSK F: /f, it stated that the volume was in use. He had Adobe Audition open as well. My recommendation is to close any app (iPad or PC) that has it's hooks into the drive volume before ejecting (with the exception of MF on the iPad of course ;)).
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Hey JMc. Sorry you are still having issues. As again this is an issue that I have heard no other user reporting, I have to think the next step is trying another hard drive.
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Hey JMc. Sorry you are still having issues. As again this is an issue that I have heard no other user reporting, I have to think the next step is trying another hard drive.
I guess so. Will do. It's just hard for me to understand why a drive that is new, that I am otherwise having no problems with, and recorded a good dozen shows with previously, is now suddenly corrupting itself? It also doesn't really explain why the DL32R is showing that it is recording, but not ultimately saving the folder containing the files. Or why it worked fine two shows in a row recently after going through all the instructions, but crapped out again after removing from the mixer to offload the files once it was plugged back in. But yes, I'll try a different drive. A Samsung EVO 1T solid state drive, this time. Wish me luck.
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Maybe it is the increased bandwidth demanded by the new 32. ch files ?
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Sorry BenO my money is on Seagate definitely not Mackie. They are far more thoroughly tested than any Mackie gear. I was trying not to bring up the obvious software issues such as having to wait after the software declares an operation completed and it's not, REALLY. What kind of programming is that? Skip the manual update and fix the software instead. If the OS hasn't been modified by Mackie buffered writes would complete and not cause any problems since plenty of time was allotted to writes especially in this case. As Gio stated FAT32 is FAT32 and I haven't read one reason why Mackie requires it's own formatting, maybe you should stick to the standard. Playing around with FAT allocation tables when you're not up to it will cause you problems. JMc I wouldn't try a SSD since it requires special handling I'm certain Mackie can't handle. Since we are talking about a USB interface to the drive there's lot's that can go wrong. A disk diagnostic on a PC will settle that issue.
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Bill, why do you say an SSD requires "special handling"? Can you be more specific? I don't know why it would be different than using any other drive, so long as it was formatted properly...
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In my experience, cut your losses and replace the Seagate trash with something else. Even their so-called "enterprise" drives don't seem to last more than a few months anymore. In fact, I've had nothing but trouble with Seagate drives since I got stuck with my first one in 1986. Until we moved away from them where I work, I was replacing them at a rate of 2-3 a month, every month. They had started failing within 3 months of purchase. We switched to Hitachi/HGST about 18 months ago, and I've had 76 of the little buggers spinning in three arrays 24/7 since then with zero failures (probably just jinxed that!).
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Bill, why do you say an SSD requires "special handling"? Can you be more specific? I don't know why it would be different than using any other drive, so long as it was formatted properly...
Without going into all the techie details of every variation of SSD technology suffice it to say that whatever USB interface you have attached to the drive or incorporated on the drive it needs to be aware of the underlying SSD chip technology. That's why XP drivers although work on SSD's are inefficient and lead to early failure. Windows 6 on up had the changes incorporated in the driver. Not sure if it requires any special handling in USB to deal with that. For that reason I would check with the Mfg. before use or avoid it altogether. Since I don't have the model # of your drive I can't go further. HD's are cheaper and handle more storage so I don't think you would gain anything with SSD's. HD's are in the 6Gbs range not going to be challenged by 480mps.
Gerem63 I've had no such experience in the past with Seagate although the bulk of drives I installed were IBM/Hitachi with excellent results but also some failures.
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Interesting. I've been running XP on my 1 T Samsung 840 EVO for over a year now. Troubling to hear of this early failure business.. I too have had no regular trouble with Seagate drives. I switched to Seagate Barracuda drives after repeated failures by Maxtor and never looked back. Of all the Seagate drives I've owned, I've only had ONE go bad, which was a 3T backup drive I purchased a few years ago. It died after a year and was replaced, free of charge, under warranty. I can tell you this... I don't like how fussy the DL32R is sounding like when it comes to HDD. It's worth noting that my recording problems seemed to coincide roughly with the last firmware update. Prior to that, I successfully recorded about a dozen shows, never ejecting the disc and leaving the earlier recordings on it when I went to make more. I'm glad that others aren't experiencing the same problems, apparently. Guess I'm just the "lucky" one. And what's the reason you can't just record to a USB thumb drive with this mixer? I've never really heard that one explained.
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Gerem63 I've had no such experience in the past with Seagate although the bulk of drives I installed were IBM/Hitachi with excellent results but also some failures.
Lucky you. :)
I spent 15 years of my life in IT, and 8 years in professional audio/sound design before going back to television production for my day-gig about 12 years ago. I admit, I'm hard on disk drives, but I've seen a wide range of drives out there. Seagates have consistently been the worst -- and as I said, that's going back to about 1986. The best drives I every used were Quantums, but that seems like a couple of lifetimes ago...
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Okay, latest wrinkle... Using data recovery software on my HDD I found 264 .WAV files which probably represent the recorded shows that went missing due to the phantom FAT errors. I can't say with certainty yet if they are intact and usable, but if they are, sorting them is going to be a bitch, but worth it in the end if all the performances are salvaged. I'll know soon enough... The recovered files are currently transferring onto a different drive and I am cautiously optimistic
I am also going to use the Samsung 850 EVO 1T SSD despite Bill's admonitions against it. I see no valid reason not to try it. It's a drive. It SHOULD work just fine and in fact, might even be more suitable given there are no moving parts and it is less susceptible to vibration/shock and heat issues. I have formatted it in the DL32R and successfully recorded some test files on the SSD.
I DO have a question for Beno, though. WHY is the filename from a previous show (eur082115) displaying in the recording window of this newly formatted, completely different drive? Why this particular show from August 21st when I've recorded others since then and why did the DL32R retain that information? For what purpose? How do I get rid of it? Could this be a clue to at least part of the problem?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0r3jql2g5sl1zga/File%20Sep%2011%2C%2012%2049%2005%20PM.png?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0r3jql2g5sl1zga/File%20Sep%2011%2C%2012%2049%2005%20PM.png?dl=0)
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I DO have a question for Beno, though. WHY is the filename from a previous show displaying in the window of a newly formatted, different drive? Why this particular show from August 21st when I've recorded others since then and why did the DL32R retain that information? For what purpose? How do I get rid of it? Could this be a clue to at least part of the problem?
That's a bug. Don't think it has anything to with the issues. Master Fader keeps track of the last string shown there and isn't getting reset properly.
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Thanks for your quick reply. Just for reference, it was not the last show that recorded and saved successfully. That was named something else and was saved the following day on 082215. So, I'm not sure what, if anything, that means. I've got a few more minutes to go before I can see if the recovered files are usable... I'll report back here. But, hey, glad I helped you uncover one bug, at least...
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JMc I did state that you will get a shorter life out of the SSD drive as advertised due to the Fat file system and the driver. Whether you will reach that point in this application before the drive is obsolete remains to be seen. If all you use it for is occasional recording of gigs most likely not. So Mackie is admitting to BUGS in their software but no-one is being affected but you, interesting. What vibration/shock and heat issues are you encountering now? I can't see that as a problem if mounted on the DL32 unless it's in an enclosed box which certainly wouldn't be a good idea since the DL has 2 fans and needs ventilation.
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What vibration/shock and heat issues are you encountering now?
I didn't say I was encountering any heat or vibration issues now. I'm not as far as I can tell. But the hard drive is strapped to the mixer and the mixer is in a road case and it gets picked up, set down, moved around, put in the van, etc. I was just making the case that if anything, a SSD would seem even better for live recording use than a HDD with moving parts, that's all. :)
Much later... So when I fixed the errors on my Seatgate HDD with chkdsk /f, the missing files from our last show were found and renamed in sequential order of how they were recorded and placed in a hidden folder. I was able to extract and replace the .chk extensions with .wav extensions and salvage the last show.
Another gig tonight. Going to be using the Samsung EVO 1T SSD and see how it performs, but despite Benos assurances, I'm still nervous about the bug.
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A couple of my products use FAT file systems that I wrote from scratch and that sure sounds like a bug in the firmware that isn't flushing the cached directory sector(s) out to disk when a file is closed. Thankfully it sounds like the cached FAT(s) are being updated and flushed so that chkdsk can find the data :) . When streaming data like that it's easy to get too "cute" with delaying the cache flushes - and forget to ever do them under certain circumstances :( . Could also be a write cache fault in the drive itself...
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Recorded last night's show with the Samsung SSD. No issues to report. :thu: Just hoping the same applies when I plug it back in and use it for the next gig. That one is going to be worth some money from post show sales, potentially. BTW, for anyone interested, our three hour show (two 45 minute sets plus one 55 minute set of actual recording time, used about 1.625 gigs of storage per track, or a total of 26 gigs for the 16 tracks that were recorded. That represents a lot of shows that can be saved on a 1T drive. Think I'm going to throw this one in my PC and use a smaller SSD instead.