Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: dpdan on February 03, 2020, 11:33:49 PM
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Master Fader 5.1
post the mixer that you are using with it, and things you like about it,
things you don't like,
and finally, things that you feel are broke.
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My test has been fine. I'm using a DL16S so there really isn't an application difference. I will be using a touch screen windows Laptop next friday with an additional external touch screen. Tested fine. I will be running two copies of MF 5.1 with each one full screen. On the external touch screen. (22 inch Acer) I can see all 16 faders and the size is large so the virtual faders should be a dream to work with. On the laptop's 9 inch screen I plan to primarily watch for feedback and output problems using spectrum. I will be carrying two iPads with MF 5.1 installed as backups. (the larger one I use for song charts so it always goes on these gigs anyway.) And my final backup is an Analog Alesis mixer that'I've never had to use. (Figure when I forget it, the DL will die.)
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I have some funky WiFi issues with MF 5.1 on Windows.
Connecting my Windows laptop directly to the built-in wifi works, but when I attach my DL32S to an external wifi router (in my case: AirPort Extreme), the Windows laptop can't find the mixer, while iPads and Android phones do find it. Then I connect my laptop to the router with an Ethernet cable, and suddenly, MF 5.1 sees the mixer, just not via WiFi.
Same happens with my studio DL32R, connected to my FritzBox and an Ubiquiti wifi mesh - my iPads and Android phones see the mixer via wifi, all PCs connected via Ethernet see it as well, just my laptops connected via Wifi don't. As soon as I plug the laptop into a network switch, it suddenly sees the mixer.
Maybe someone with a bit more knowledge of the underlying network protocols can make some more sense of this - it's really crazy to me: the mixer seems to send the correct information directly through its own wifi AP and through the wired connection, but as soon as it crosses to wifi on an external router, something seems to happen to the stream that makes the mixer un-findable for Windows, but still findable for iPads and Android devices.
Weird... Anyone with similar observations? I'll try some old backup router next...
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@Wynnd: are you using your DL16S with its own wifi AP or are you using an external AP (which?)? And is your laptop connected via WiFi or wired?
Just collecting data points - going a little crazy here...
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Likes - DL16S. Recording capability. software patch panel. Pink noise generator. RTA and Spectrum monitor. VCAs, I use them all the time. Compressors and occasional gates. 31 band EQ on all outs.
Things I don't personally use. SubGroups, Mute groups. These are probably fine for people who use them. I just don't use them.
Things I hate. Got a problem here. I really like this mixer a lot. It's been solid and I can't see any thing that would bug me. My previous mixer was a DL1608. I liked it too. I don't use the internal WiFi as it's weak and just the one band. That's the worst thing on the mixer and because there's a work around, I can live with the external connection I'm using.
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There is an issue attaching to my Airport Express on 5 Ghz. It doesn't display and when forced it shows but the connection is greyed out. This is only a Windows laptop problem. I do have the 2.4 Ghz connection available and it has worked just fine, but I want to know what the problem is with 5 Ghz. It's not the app. It has to be a windows thing. maybe a bad IP address for local use. If that's it, I will assign a more suitable address. Got to do some research.
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thanks you guys,
no desktop mode like we saw in the video about 5.X
I have a few gripes about copying and pasting,... and resetting a channel.
When I copy an input channel and paste it into another channel, Master Fader does not recall any preamp stuff like Gain, Trim, Phase, Phantom Power or even Source... very aggravating :(
When I go to "Presets" on an input channel and choose "Reset Channel", Master Fader resets everything but forgets to reset all the Aux send levels and leaves them turned up. ::)
These things I can live with, but not this next thing,... I just read on the Mackie Website that there are currently no plans for DC16 support in Version 5.0.....
So, is anyone interested in buying my DC16, with beautiful Mackie road case and Dante card? If you do, you will not be able to have access to four effects, copying and pasting channels (minus preamp)
and the other really nice things about 5.1 that Mackie promised... especially how fast it is ready to go once you click to open it,... that alone is worth the price of admission, but wait,... this update was free, but I can't use it because I have a DC16.
I can sell my two DL32R mixers, two Dante cards, DC16 and case and have enough to buy a Yamaha TF mixer with stage box.... well almost enough. I will need to put a clause bubble on all of my Master Fader Youtube videos... Since Mackie no longer supports my Mackie products, I can no longer support the world with generous, knowledgeable FREE support as I have done for hundreds and hundreds of Mackie DL customers around the world. I am confident that when Ben Olswang left Mackie, that was the end of DL. Sad....
(http://www.misc.kurysound.com/miscuploads/NO_PLANS_FOR_DC16_SUPPORT.png)
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Dan I was going to ask you about this rather matter of fact note "Note: There are currently no plans on DC16 support in Master Fader 5. If you are using a DL32R + DC16 / AXIS Mixing System, please use Master Fader 4.6.2." in their AXIS webpage. There are some strange other parts to their webpage such as DL16/32S pic and the compatibility chart which make no sense in a AXIS system. Could this be a mistake or did they really axe the MF5.2 for AXIS release. I would not be a happy camper if I owned their top of the line system and received news like this. At least they could update the iPad only AXIS system.
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Hi WK, first, I want to thank you for not kicking a man when he's down... I know you have some very negative opinions about Mackie and how they "do" things, and you have every right to your opinion. I have too, but for me.... the DL line has made my life SO much easier, and with my hands getting seriously bad, (Rheumatoid Arthritis) it is everything for me to just hold an iPad for three hours for some jobs. You could have used my post to confirm Mackie's lack luster style, but thank you for refraining from saying what you really wanted to, especially since this forum's purpose is to try to bring positive answers and help to Mackie DL users who have legitimate questions.
So, the DC16 can not live or do anything without the DL32R. You probably already know all about it even though you don't have one, (lucky you). After a Dante card is installed in the rear of the DL32R, they connect to each other with a common Cat 5 or 6 cable and you're off and running. The DL16S and 32S do not have a Dante card slot, so there is no way they can connect to the DC16. Some of the stuff you mentioned that you read on Mackie's website I have not seen and have not had the stomach for reading anything after a *NOTE* NO PLANS FOR DC16 SUPPORT
For me... most of my living is made with live sound. Some of my jobs are concerts where people pay to get in, some are just wedding receptions and the iPad mixing is a complete blessing! In the case of a concert, I like to have a real console with real faders... the luxury of using my same iPad/s and shows (snapshots) with the DC16 is wonderful! A fantastic thing for me, I don't HAVE to bring the console.
I have been testing 5.1 for a long time, and sending in my findings to the guys at Mackie.
I knew that there were some things that were literally broke in 5.1 and was quite surprised that they were releasing it with these issues, but I have to admit, none of the issues that I was unhappy about caused Master Fader to not work, or be even the slightest bit unreliable. It is just as stable as 4.6.2 to me. Had I known a year ago that they were going to simply lift the middle finger to all of the DC16 users out there, I would have sold that stuff on eBay faster than ... well,, I ain't gonna say what I want. I am still on their "team" and because I am a man of my word,,,,, (Eckhum, cough) I chose to not talk about or discuss anything about the testing while it was in beta as per my agreement to their rules.
Anyway, I and many DC16 owners are not screwed, some of us will continue to use that system cheerfully with 4.6.2. I just won't be one of them. Now, they... Mackie, could say, "read what it says Dan", it says no DC16 Axis support for Master Fader 5. BUT,... maybe if they release 6.0, it will be the "NEW" version and will not only include firmware for the DC16, but the DC16 will also get many of the features that were promised. To prove that there were plans to improve the DC16, there are buttons on the console that don't even light up and do nothing, but they "WERE" going to when Ben was there, they could lie and tell us that 6.0 is "coming" and keep us from throwing our stuff on eBay and buying some "OTHER" brand.
It is apparent to me that there are going to be lots of people screaming at Mackie about this dead end and never ever buy another Mackie product. They should be very concerned about their decisions by not wasting any more resources on the DC16, and just kicking it to the curb. But they don't care as long as they have a new line of crap mics and some other NEW stuff. If I really decide to ditch all my DL stuff including the DC16 and go for something else, it won't be because I don't like it anymore,.. it will be because I can't tolerate being disrespected. I'm really not sure what I am going to do, but lugging around another console is out of the question, and I would not take a Behringer/Midas if it was given to me. I have a very very bad taste in my mouth about some Behringer gear I installed in a church for a friend,... two speaker processors failed in one week, pathetic wave soldering quality. Then only months later, I see a guy on youtube showing how to re-solder the L.E.D. contacts on the PCB so all the colors work again on the X32 meters. Brother :facepalm: Many, many people love their Behringer gear, good for them,,, but I saw all I needed to see in that installation. Then Behringer bought Midas, and I thought well, there goes Midas. Midas was very good in my opinion. I am talking out of my butt perhaps about the Behringer/Midas thing but I won't go there... well , I guess I already did, sorry. Gosh I really need to quit blabbing and get to bed... :)
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There is an issue attaching to my Airport Express on 5 Ghz. It doesn't display and when forced it shows but the connection is greyed out. This is only a Windows laptop problem. I do have the 2.4 Ghz connection available and it has worked just fine, but I want to know what the problem is with 5 Ghz. It's not the app.
Hmm, I'm increasingly stumped here - I've now tried the third router (Cisco / Linksys EA 6500) in both frequency bands (5 GHz, 2.4 GHz), the fourth laptop, and the behavior stays the same: the iPad connects happily, while the Windows laptop doesn't see the mixer over wifi, but sees it easily when connected to the same router via cable. I'm really giving up at this point - I'll just get a few cheap Android tablets and give up on mixing with my Surfaces...
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These things I can live with, but not this next thing,... I just read on the Mackie Website that there are currently no plans for DC16 support in Version 5.0.....
Phew - I saw this on Mackie's site and on Facebook, and I went: WHAAAAT?! I'm so happy I never took the plunge and invested in a DC16, even though it was tempting.
I would be soo mad - Mackie pushing the DL32 into the pro sound turf with AXIS, and then leaving exactly the pro crowd stranded, whilst keeping the lower end of the market happy and engaged.
For rental companies, this must be an absolute horror - not being able to keep all equipment on a unified firmware level, but having to up- or downgrade it depending if it is being rented out with or without DC16...
For me, the current issues with Windows & wifi aren't so horrible - after all, I'm not losing something, but simply not gaining what I'd hoped to gain (and was promised by Mackie).
Still, this is far from trust-building...
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These things I can live with, but not this next thing,... I just read on the Mackie Website that there are currently no plans for DC16 support in Version 5.0.....
Phew - I saw this on Mackie's site and on Facebook, and I went: WHAAAAT?! I'm so happy I never took the plunge and invested in a DC16, even though it was tempting.
I would be soo mad - Mackie pushing the DL32 into the pro sound turf with AXIS, and then leaving exactly the pro crowd stranded, whilst keeping the lower end of the market happy and engaged.
For rental companies, this must be an absolute horror - not being able to keep all equipment on a unified firmware level, but having to up- or downgrade it depending if it is being rented out with or without DC16...
For me, the current issues with Windows & wifi aren't so horrible - after all, I'm not losing something, but simply not gaining what I'd hoped to gain (and was promised by Mackie).
Still, this is far from trust-building...
well stated
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Hmm, I'm increasingly stumped here - I've now tried the third router (Cisco / Linksys EA 6500) in both frequency bands (5 GHz, 2.4 GHz), the fourth laptop, and the behavior stays the same: the iPad connects happily, while the Windows laptop doesn't see the mixer over wifi, but sees it easily when connected to the same router via cable. I'm really giving up at this point - I'll just get a few cheap Android tablets and give up on mixing with my Surfaces...
OK, getting closer to a work-around here (not really a solution, but good enough to get going):
1. Make sure that no other wifi networks are set to auto-connect on your Windows machine
2. Make sure that the router is switched on and running before turning on the mixer
3. Re-boot (not just start from "shut down") the windows laptop / tablet and connect directly to the mixer network
4. Start Master Fader - it should now discover the mixer.
Not the most stable solution, but at least something to get going until Mackie stabilize things...
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BTW: switching to another wifi network to connect to a different mixer doesn't work - you need to reboot, then connect to the other network...
Bonjour on Windows seems to be a finicky beast - or Mackie are struggling with it...
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Found out why my Windows Laptop couldn't see the 5 Ghz band of Airport Express II. I could see with my network USB dongle. (The home 5Ghz network on my time capsule.) The USB dongle was AC only The Airport Express was n for 5 Ghz. Replaced the dongle with a more flexible one and now every thing works just fine. (Faster at the same time.) All my Apple products worked with the Airport Express just fine. And all my computers work just fine with my home network on both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. I'm finally ready for Friday.
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that's good news Wynnd!
Have fun!!!!
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Double check your mixer's wifi configuration. It's on the mixer select page. Upgrades sometimes reset to the internal Wifi. That will cause the types of problems you describe. (Might not be the only possible cause.)
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I only have a dislike... My DL32R is going to have to go back to 4x...
I cannot get it to recognize any hard drive.. it just says "scanning" and never gets past that.
Tried Seagate, Maxtor, WD externals that all worked previously.
UPDATE: This was resolved after following Mackie Tech Support's suggested forced firmware update - something obviously didn't go well when I first upgraded to 5.1.
All working now.
Likes: All my old iPads are being left at home, and my band members can use their own phones/tablets to control their own mixes. YES!!!!!!
Dislikes: Haven't used it at a show yet, but so far, none.
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Double check your mixer's wifi configuration. It's on the mixer select page. Upgrades sometimes reset to the internal Wifi. That will cause the types of problems you describe. (Might not be the only possible cause.)
Done that already - and changed the config to Access Point, checked a bit, then changed it back to External Router. Even with the mixer config set correctly, there are issues on the Windows front. Mackie have a cryptic "known issues" on this with MF 5.1 - isn't really clear enough, but the key essence is that you need a full reboot before connecting to the mixer network - and avoid connecting to any other network, so set "connect automatically" to off for all other networks before reboot.
Cheers,
Torsten
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Aaaargh, another big DISLIKE:
got myself a new Android tablet to replace the aging iPad that won't run MF anymore - and Google tells me that MF won't run on it (not even in phone mode)!
It's a Samsung Galaxy Tab A T510 - runs Android 9, has a screen resolution of 1920 x 1200, should easily be able to run MF - but there seems to be no way...
Does anyone have a recommendation for an Android tablet that WILL run MF 5.1 (in full tablet mode)?
Getting more and more frustrated with Mackie...
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Well there goes the possible limitation of 32 bit ARM's being the problem, yours has Exynos 64 bit ARM cores. My Lenovo Tab 2 A10-70 at least gets past Google check for compatibility which may be something that Mackie may have some choice on. Since I have yet to get my 1608 ready for test I'll reserve any conclusions but things don't look good for MF 5.1.0. Once again the first release of any version is not something you would use at a live gig. So when will MF 5.1.1 be available? I also tried a $41 tab and it is a 32 bit ARM and gets the same Google rejection. Haven't tried my Galaxy S6 yet. To bad Mackie won't publish the make and model # of the devices that they used for testing. I may get the DL1608 ready for test by the end of the week :)
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Scratch my dislike... I called Mackie support and they said it sounded like a firmware upgrade glitch. So a forced reload and update and all is well.
If anyone finds their DL32R not recognizing hard drives - that's likely what it is =)
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Well there goes the possible limitation of 32 bit ARM's being the problem, yours has Exynos 64 bit ARM cores.
The interesting bit about this: according to Mackie support, this tablet runs 32 bit Android, and the Play Store version of MF 5 seems to require 64 bit. That's why the incompatibility in the PlayStore. They sent me a link to download a 32 bit version directly as apk, and it seems to run nicely - in tablet mode, not phone mode - phew!
I've suggested they put this little tidbit of information on the website - and also a way to find out what Android version a tablet is running - ideally before purchase...
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I also tried a $41 tab and it is a 32 bit ARM and gets the same Google rejection.
If you want to try the 32 bit version, PM me...
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Torsten if you're adventurous the tab A can be upgraded to Android 10q a 64 bit version. Here's the link.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-a/development/rom-lineage-17-0-android-10-q-64bit-t3973561
This should allow Google Play download and better performance.
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Hmmm, interesting...
Maybe after the next gig ;)
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Since your Tab is a SM-T510 you may want to look at this.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-a/development/rom-nexus-stock-2019-galaxy-tab-10-1-t3944222
This work is all on GitHub and familiarity with their site is helpful.
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DISLIKE:
On iPad Pro 12 incher or smaller iPad pro, the touch sliders are too sensitive, my sound tech complained that just barely touching them caused them to jump dB.
Also, when adjusting two faders which are not bridged together (guitar Left and Guitar Right), had issues moving both simultaneously - one would stop and the other would keep going.
And a worse problem - the drummer's iPhone was supposedly not given access to the main aux, but when he connected, he could see the faders on main, they were ghosted - and yep, he was able to adjust the main R+L and caused crazy loud feedback through the mains that took a second to realize what was going on.
Verified this on another device too...
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Well there goes the possible limitation of 32 bit ARM's being the problem, yours has Exynos 64 bit ARM cores.
The interesting bit about this: according to Mackie support, this tablet runs 32 bit Android, and the Play Store version of MF 5 seems to require 64 bit. That's why the incompatibility in the PlayStore. They sent me a link to download a 32 bit version directly as apk, and it seems to run nicely - in tablet mode, not phone mode - phew!
I've suggested they put this little tidbit of information on the website - and also a way to find out what Android version a tablet is running - ideally before purchase...
Once again Mackie cant get it right. All they had to do since they have both a 32 bit and a 64 bit version was to upload it to the play store together and the Google play store will deal with which version to download. ::)
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All they had to do since they have both a 32 bit and a 64 bit version was to upload it to the play store together and the Google play store will deal with which version to download. ::)
Fully agreed - someone's trying to be too smart ::)
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Torsten I believe that there was some complaints about crippling Tab A when it was released just to help the S5e at double the price not look to bad. Maybe in a future release they will convert to the 64 bit Android version. The S5e was soon replaced with the S6 which has much better performance.
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John, can you post the "forced firmware update" procedure? Is it the one outlined in https://supportloudtech.netx.net/loud-public/#/asset/16168 or something different?
UPDATE: This was resolved after following Mackie Tech Support's suggested forced firmware update - something obviously didn't go well when I first upgraded to 5.1.
All working now.
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John, can you post the "forced firmware update" procedure? Is it the one outlined in https://supportloudtech.netx.net/loud-public/#/asset/16168 or something different?
To perform a force update that pushes the latest firmware update to your system, do the following:
• Backup your settings using snapshots under the SHOWS window
• Power off the mixer
• Depress the force update button to the right of the Power and Network LEDs using a pin
• Keep the button pressed while turning the mixer on
• Release the button after 10 seconds
• Connect to the mixer in Master Fader 4; it should be in Update Mode (I used MF5.1 on on an iPad)
• Push the update to the mixer
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Thanks John! I tried it and it seems to have worked, so my issues may have resulted from an incomplete earlier update. Seems important to have the iPad forget all other WiFi networks in range before doing the update. And according to Mackie the same procedure can be used to revert to the earlier firmware, if you connect to the Update Mode mixer instance using MF4.
Fingers crossed ...
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Super!
I do have one glitch you might want to be aware of since it sounds like you are doing what I do.
If you set one of the other phones or tablets to be locked out of the main mix but able to access their own aux mix.... It appears that when they first connect to the mixer, they can still see the main mix.
The faders are ghosted. You can see through them at that point.
However, they can still adjust the main until they change to their own aux.
Sighhhh. Might just be me but figured I'd warn you.
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My biggest like of 5.1 is that it won't work on any of my 3 ipads so I'm spared even the possibility of having my reputation and sanity destroyed by Mackie's habitual total disregard for the real world. It also amazes me that so called pro entertainers and sound providers put their jobs on the line by having faith in a company that clearly doesn't give a flying f**k for it's clients and hasn't done so since Greg left the building long ago. It's not as if it hasn't happened before, one blast of white noise at full volume from my early DL1608 taught me my lesson years ago (and cost me a client).
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I’ve waited to upgrade to 5.1. After reading everyone’s reviews I’m a little more hesitant. Has anyone here updated and just used iPad control with good results? I’m more interested in the new fx engine than using android or pc.
If I did go to 5.1 and had problems is it easy enough to go back to MF 4?
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I’ve waited to upgrade to 5.1. After reading everyone’s reviews I’m a little more hesitant. Has anyone here updated and just used iPad control with good results? I’m more interested in the new fx engine than using android or pc.
If I did go to 5.1 and had problems is it easy enough to go back to MF 4?
I have used only iPad on mine because only iPad has worked well enough.
Unless you absolutely NEED two more effects engines, just stay with MF4 if you are using your DL out in the real-world.
HOWEVER - if you do happen to try 5.1, and run into the problems we all have, it is easy to go!
I'm expecting an update any moment that addresses the majority of the issues, but, I'm just overly hopeful probably =)
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The only people who can't go back are the DL16S and DL32S mixer owners as MF 5.0.2 is no longer available. All the others can revert by loading MF 4.x and resetting their mixers. (It's in the mixer owner's manual.)
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well almost enough. I will need to put a clause bubble on all of my Master Fader Youtube videos... Since Mackie no longer supports my Mackie products, I can no longer support the world with generous, knowledgeable FREE support as I have done for hundreds and hundreds of Mackie DL customers around the world. I am confident that when Ben Olswang left Mackie, that was the end of DL. Sad....
I personally want to thank you for all the videos you took the time to make to help us to better understand the mixers software and mixing in general. I'm also sorry to hear what Mackie has done with regard to your present desk and it's lack of future software updates.
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well almost enough. I will need to put a clause bubble on all of my Master Fader Youtube videos... Since Mackie no longer supports my Mackie products, I can no longer support the world with generous, knowledgeable FREE support as I have done for hundreds and hundreds of Mackie DL customers around the world. I am confident that when Ben Olswang left Mackie, that was the end of DL. Sad....
I personally want to thank you for all the videos you took the time to make to help us to better understand the mixers software and mixing in general. I'm also sorry to hear what Mackie has done with regard to your present desk and it's lack of future software updates.
Hi TR,
you are very kind to say what you just did and I thank YOU!.
I have my new Yamaha TF Rack mixer and I will enjoy it and use it cheerfully. Even though I have decided to jump ship (so to speak), I am aware that those videos are still beneficial to people using Master Fader 5.1 and beyond. I had a fun time making the videos, and am appreciative of youtube to be able to share a little bit of what I think I know :) There is still much to learn in this constantly changing world of technology, sound, recording, mixing, production, etc. I am self taught, but still humbled at the kind comments that people like you have sent to me since Mackie changed my life with Master Fader. To be honest, I am not unhappy with my Mackie gear, it is the person or persons who decided to ditch DC16 customers. I can't continue to promote a company like that. And, that makes me sad. But.... your post made me happy, and that makes it all worth it!
As always, never hesitate to ask a question if you feel stumped.