Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Kevin on March 22, 2013, 03:00:16 PM
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Is anyone using a 30 pin extension cable that they would recommend?
I'd like to be able to plug my iPad into the DL1608 without having to remove the protective case (which is a PIA).
I bought a neXplug 4 foot extension cable from Amazon, which did not work. The neXplug got decent reviews and is a full 30 pin connector (not just power), but on the unit I got, it appears that the female 30pin connector was not formed correctly in the housing. There is about 1/16 inch gap between the front of the plastic housing and the actual 30 pin female connector on the inside. This prevents the contacts from mating completely to the male connector on the DL1608. When I plug in my iPad, the battery alarm beeps continuously (not seeing charge). Also, the male end of the cable, is a good bit thicker than the 30 pin connector on the charger, so it doesnt fit through the protective case very well.
I sent the neXplug back and ordered another extension cable from a different manufacturer. While I'm waiting, I figured I'd check to see if anyone has done this successfully - and for anyone else who is thinking about this, I would advise against the neXplug.
>> tldr: The most reliable cable appears to be the 2' CableJive. If you can keep your iPad close to fully charged, you may be able to use the 6' CableJive cable as well. Both of these are around $25. A Patazon 3 ft cable (costs $5) is only reliable when the iPad is fully charged
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We've tried many different cables and not had one work consistently :( .
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Dang! that was not the answer I was looking for - but thanks for the response.
Anyone else have any luck with using an extension cable to connect the iPad to the DL?
The iPad docking mechanism on the DL seems pretty slick at first, but it only works with a naked iPad - and a bar or club is not a good place for a naked iPad.
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I haven't had any problems with my $9 Chinese 3ft cable all 30 wires. Never disconnected or acted flackey. Bought of eBay but I don't have particulars. I'll see if I can find the paperwork. What I did find out dealing with the iPad/DL sort of USB connection is that the iPad can be run thru a powered hub ( PC as master iPad as slave) while the DL wont. More crappy Mackie code or hardware. Their driver is not very forgiving and locked up consistently on hot plugs of various combinations that I tried in case the USB OTG (On The Go) was implemented in some fashion. Remember that neither Apple or Mackie claim to comply with the USB standard but Apple at least can deal with a hub. Had to power the DL off to recover. Conclusion is that Mackie's code or hardware in the DL may be the larger part of the problem than the cable. Impedance and capacitance of the cable may also aggravate this fragile system.
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I actually have a cable that used to work but didn't when I tried it earlier this week :( . It also now doesn't like to detach from the iPad so I'm afraid it will damage it anyways. Maybe it was stepped on or something - I'll have to take a better look at it. In any case at least one other guy here bought the same cable and it didn't work for him.
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It also now doesn't like to detach from the iPad
dont forget that on some of these extension cables, you have to squeeze the male end to get it to let go.
Impedance and capacitance of the cable may also aggravate this fragile system
hmm.. good point. I might see if I can find a shorter cable. 4 feet seemed like it would be handy, but 12 inches would be workable and may be more reliable.
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I forgot one of the factors in this USB problem could very well be the iPad version. I am using iPad 3 older version could have different electronics. The USB specs are about timing and electronic characteristics not length. I know that Sabrent markets 32 ft. , 64 ft. and 100 ft cables for USB 2.0 or older. I don't know if they work or not but would be a clean solution. I will be trying their other solution for USB extensions for up to 150 ft. USB > Ethernet > USB cat6 cable once I find my 100ft. cat6 cables. Software transparent ???? We'll see. Ebay has tons of 30pin cables for sale from shenzhen China or New York for 3.50 to 6.00 ( mine actually cost 3.99 including shipping).
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OK! Tested the Sabrent USB 2.0 extender on the iPad first (100 ft. cat6 cable). The iPad had trouble with ID protocol to the PC (iTunes) and eventually I managed a connection. Definitely not reliable. Ipad would skip to the next song at random. Then there was the question of the Sabrent extender working as advertised so I hauled out an old WD2500 USB 2.0/Firewire 400 backup drive and tested it on USB. Two hours of music playing off the WD without missing a beat let alone disconnecting convinced me that Sabrent extender was solid. It also worked thru the hub for another 3 ft. :) Conclusion: iPad is a poor implementation of USB 2.0 either hardware or drivers or both. Of course they don't claim to be. Why inter-operate with other equipment? It's Apple or nothing. Mackies implementation is even worse. The longest cable that would work between iPad and DL is the 3 ft extension. All other attempts to go beyond 3 ft. (ie. 6 ft.) failed. Ethernet which is the other route fails for lack of driver support in the iPad. Combine this with with Apple crippleware and you have no hardwired long distance solution AFAIK. Give me a PC app for the DL. Oh that's called a iX16.
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you have no hardwired long distance solution AFAIK
Bummer, although I'm glad to know that you have a reliable 3 foot cable. So there is some hope for a short distance solution
I have a "Patazon" 3 ft extension cable on the way. Anyone try one of those? How about either the 2 foot or 6 foot CableJive extenders? Those are pricey but get good reviews.
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Update on Sabrent extender!!!! It's going back. :( I tried to transfer about 500Mb to the backup and it took forever it seems ~5Min. Hate to see the error rate. It certainly wasn't transferring at 480 Mbs. Switched to a 6ft USB and 25 seconds later the transfer was complete. Not good for general use, music wav files will play however. I think they only need 12Mbs at CD rates.
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I have yet to find a reliable one either, I've tried 3 so far and just gave up.
I'm guessing it's more the DL1608 than the iPad
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My "Patazon" 3 ft extension cable arrived this morning!
For a grand total of $5.53 delivered, it works a whole lot better than the neXplug did - although it still has some issues.
The Patazon cable is a lot easier to plug into the iPad with the Ballistic Tough Jacket - the plastic around the male end is slimmer and fits though the dock opening of the case with no fiddling.
No more constant battery beeping, and the iPad chargers correctly. Both Master Fader and the iTunes music player communicate with the DL with no problems. I've been playing tunes through the cable (no router) and the DL hooked up to a couple monitors for about an hour with no hiccups.
Now for the issues - both garageband and the JL Audio RTA app worked for a bit, but then dropped out. In the case of garage band, I went to the smart drum page, set up a random hip-hop beat and it played through a couple monitors (ie through the cable to the DL). After a couple minutes, it stopped by itself. When I hit play again, the sound came through the iPads speaker, not the DL. Disconnecting and re-connecting the cable put the signal back through the DL again, but again only for a few minutes. Then it drops out and goes through the iPad speakers. This seems a little odd. I had assumed that the iTunes player and garageband are using the same input to the DL, but iTunes seems solid, while garageband always drops out after a little bit.
Similar thing for the JL audio RTA - the RTA app gets the audio input from the DL for a while, then after a few minutes it switches to the iPad's mic.
I'm at a bit of a loss to explain this. My best guess is that there is still some sort of occasional garbage on the digital input to the iPad, which is confusing the garageband and JL audio apps, but for some reason Master Fader and the iTunes player are able to ignore this.
Unless anyone else has a better idea about what is going on, I'm planning to try the CableJive extender cables next. According to the mfg website, the cables were redesigned in May 2012 to incorporate "A revolutionary 2-tier shielding system puts all video and audio signals inside a separate shielding to reduce interference from the other signals traveling through the wire." - which I am hoping is marketing-speak for "we finally figured out how to keep these damn cables from flaking out". CableJive makes both 2 and 6 foot cables. 6 foot would be handy, but I could live with 2 ft
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Thanks! Even a two foot cable that works 100% would be great 8) .
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I have the 6 foot CableJive 30 pin extension cable. It was pricey but well made and has worked perfectly for three months of daily use. I never dock my iPad anymore. I just bought an iPad mini along with the outrageously high priced 30 pin to lightning adapter cable. Plugging the adapter cable into the extension cable works fine too.
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^ That's great news, thanks :) ! Which regular iPad do you use it with - Original, iPad 2, or New Ipad (AKA gen 1, 2, or 3) ?
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I have the cable connected to an original iPad 1 as an emergency backup and run everything wirelessly with a new iPad mini.
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I have the cable connected to an original iPad 1 as an emergency backup and run everything wirelessly with a new iPad mini.
I'm curious why you don't just dock it?
Oh, and for the curious here's the cable being discussed:
http://www.cablejive.com/products/dockXtender.html
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I have the cable connected to an original iPad 1 as an emergency backup and run everything wirelessly with a new iPad mini.
I'm curious why you don't just dock it?
Oh, and for the curious here's the cable being discussed:
http://www.cablejive.com/products/dockXtender.html
I have the DL1608 tucked under a bench seat in front of me (I am using it in a courtroom) and the 6 foot extension allows me to have the iPad 1 clamped to the seat in front of me in case my wireless link to the mini goes down. In the cover band that I sometimes play in, I have the IPad 1 clamped to my mic stand with the extension cable running down to the DL1608 on the floor next to my stage monitor. When I go out into the audience to check things out, I just take the iPad mini with me. I am a bass player/singer and have a Line 6 g30 wireless on my bass.
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I am a bass player/singer and have a Line 6 g30 wireless on my bass.
Kinda funny, over on the Live Sound forum on Harmony Central (http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Live-Sound-Production/bd-p/acapella-33)most of us are bass players :o .
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FWIW - Enabling background mode in GarageBand made it connect to the DL a lot more reliably using the bargain Patazon cable - still not 100 percent though. It now drops out every 10 - 15 minutes, which is annoying but I can live with it until the cableJive cables show up. I ordered both the 2 and 6 foot versions, planning to keep the longest one that works reliability for all apps and send the other one back.
I'm just getting my feet wet with GarageBand, but I gotta say that just playing around with the smart drums is the most fun I've had for 5 bucks in a while, even with the dropouts. I havent owned a drum machine in years. This one sounds pretty good though a pair of monitors and is easy enough to use. Another win for the DL.
EDIT >> The CableJive cables arrived this afternoon. Yep, their 6 foot cable works great. I've been playing around for a couple hours with MF, GarageBand and the JL RTA running at the same time and no dropouts. I havent opened the 2 foot cable yet and hopefully I wont need to. Besides not having to take the case off the iPad now, its really nice to have that extra 6 feet when using the dock connection
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Hmmm...... I've been using the 6 foot CableJive extension cable for about 10 days with no issues or hiccups - about 10-12 hours of use total, mainly to noodle around with GarageBand. This afternoon, I plug in the DL with the extender cable and it quits after about 15 seconds. I retried a few times, then cycled power on the DL and iPad, and turned off everything I could think of that might be a possible interference source, but still no dice. I tried the Patazon cable, which used to be able to keep a connection for 10-15 minutes at a stretch, and same thing - quits after 15 seconds. Luckily, I havent got around to sending the 2 foot CableJive cable back, so I try that one and presto, everything is working. After noodling around for a bit, I set up a stress test by turning off the router (so DL/iPad comm goes though the cable) put GarageBand in a repeating play loop and use AKlite to monitor - so the cable is handling input and output audio, plus control/status from the DL. Two hours later and everything is still running. Go back to 6 foot cable, quits within a few seconds.
This has me baffled. It looks like the 2 foot CableJive is solid, but 10 days ago I thought the same thing about the 6 foot CableJive. My setup hasnt changed (still running 1.3). No obvious interference sources
I suppose the takeaway from this is that the 2 foot CableJive is more reliable that the 6 foot version, but I cant understand why the 6 foot version started flaking. Especially after Oddeotek reports 3 months of reliable daily use. Something seems fishy here.
edit >> actually there is one thing that changed - yesterday I updated IOS to v6.1.3 - which I wouldnt think would make any difference, but who knows.
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Now I'm getting worried as well. My 6 foot cable Jive extension has worked perfectly for over 3 months now but all I am asking it to do is charge the iPad 1, record occasionally and maintain the operational connection between the DL1601 and the iPad. I guess the big test will come tomorrow morning when I load 1.4 into the DL. I will try it using the iPad 1 and the Cable Jive cable first and, if that fails, I'll connect the mini with the short apple adapter cable. I will report back tomorrow after its done.
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Oddeotek - what version of IOS are you running? I'm wondering if maybe the diminished communication on my cable has anything to do with me installing 6.1.3 yesterday.
Thursday I had some friends over and we played for a few hours with the iPad attached to the DL via the cable the whole time. No problems. Since then, the DL hasnt moved, so no way the cable could have got yanked or anything. I disconnected from the cable to try out a bunch of 3rd party music and RTA apps over the weekend, in addition to updating to 6.1.3, so maybe its some sort of software weevil that is causing problems?
I actually have a cable that used to work but didn't when I tried it earlier this week
RR - when that cable you had that was working stopped working - was it by chance after you updated to 6.1.3? Or maybe after checking out some other 3rd party apps? It seems strange that fairly new cables would just quit working
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RR - when that cable you had that was working stopped working - was it by chance after you updated to 6.1.3? Or maybe after checking out some other 3rd party apps? It seems strange that fairly new cables would just quit working
That's quite possible. Apple has a track record of adding in detection of third party devices and disabling them x( .
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"Oddeotek - what version of IOS are you running? I'm wondering if maybe the diminished communication on my cable has anything to do with me installing 6.1.3 yesterday."
I am using 6.1.3 on the iPad mini and 5.something on the iPad 1. I downloaded 1.4 onto the DL this morning using the 6 foot CableJive extension connected to the Apple Lightning to 39 pin adapter cable hooked to the mini. It all worked perfectly and the transfer took less than two minutes. I didn't want to do the download using the iPad 1 since I figured it would take more time due to the slower processor. I used the mixer for 6 hours today with no problems.
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I used the mixer for 6 hours today with no problems.
That's good to hear. I think there may be a more likely culprit for the dropouts I was seeing: the DL's battery charging circuit for the iPad.
This evening I plugged the iPad with the 6 foot CableJive cable and used it for about 20 min before it quit. Yesterday it would quit after just a few seconds. The main difference between yesterday and today is that my iPad is now at 93 percent charge, so the Lion battery is in constant voltage mode trickle charge and the charging circuit on the DL is not producing much power. Yesterday afternoon, I had been using the iPad without recharging for a couple days, and it was down around 50%, so the battery was charging in constant current mode, with the DL producing a lot more power, and possibly more noise as well. I've got the iPad charging now, and will test again when I get to 100 percent charge (at which point the DL will just be putting out a small float charge) and see if the 6 foot cable goes back to its ole reliable self. Then I will let the iPad battery drain down for a few days and see if I can reproduce the dropouts.
RR - if you charge your ipad to 100 percent, does the cable you had that was previously working start working again? If so, that would also point to a noisy charging circuit on the DL. This would also explain why Oddetek hasnt had any issues (and is unlikely to have any) with the iPad always on a cable.
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RR - if you charge your ipad to 100 percent, does the cable you had that was previously working start working again? If so, that would also point to a noisy charging circuit on the DL.
I'll try that tomorrow.
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This week I'll discharge the iPad 1 and let the DL charge it while I'm working. I am still running it all with the iPad mini wireless anyway. I will see if I have any connection problems with the iPad 1 while it is being charged.
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I just finished playing with the DL using the 6 foot cable for about an hour with no dropouts at 100 percent charge. I'm going to leave it overnight with Garageband, MF and AKLite all using the 30 pin cable and see if its still running in the morning.
edit > Just checked on the DL - its been running for 8 hours now with Garageband, MF and AKLite all using the 30 pin cable, with no problems. It is sure looking like it was the charging circuit causing the dropouts. I just swapped the 6 foot CableJive cable for the Patazon cable, to see if that cable does better when the iPad is charged to 100 percent
2nd edit > The Patazon cable has been running for over 6 hours now with Garageband, MF and AKLite all using the 30 pin cable, with no problems. Having a full charge on the iPad makes even a budget cable like the Patazon much more reliable.
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Yep, its the DL's iPad charging circuit.
When the iPad is fully charged, any of the cables are reliable. I saw 1 dropout in 12 hours with Patazon, no problem with either CableJive
After discharging iPad to 38 percent both the Patazon and 6 foot CableJive will drop out after 15 seconds or so.
At 38 percent, the 2 foot CableJive has no problems. It ran to full charge with Garageband, MF and AKLite all using the 30 pin cable. I also turned bluetooth on to see if I could make it drop. So far [knock on wood] the 2 foot CableJive is the one to get if you need an always reliable connection. I'm keeping the 6 foot one though, because the extra length is nice and I can usually keep the iPad above 90 percent charge, which seems to be about where the 6 foot cable starts having issues
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Awesome job, Kevin!
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Great job on finding the cause Kevin but now it would be greater if there was a solution other than 90 - 100% charge of the iPad. Anyone?
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I was surprised this topic didn't come up much when I did a search, so was glad to find this info. I am replying to this old thread with new info based on experimentation.
I experimented with a 4-foot extension, and successfully decoupled the Mackie (noisy?) charging power from the data wires (clipped the black wire/pin 16 and red wire/pin 24) from the iPad end of the extension (after opening up the housing). These are the +5V and Gnd connections for charging. This resulted in reliable data "connection" to the Mackie but, of course, the iPad power drained over time.
So, I took an old USB cable and cut off the square connector end (leaving the flat rectangular end), and soldered the red and black wires to the same colored wires I had cut (connect to the iPad end). I cut a hole in the housing to accomodate the wires. Then, the extension cable and USB cable were taped together.
I use a regular iPad USB charger to connect to the USB cable, and the female end of the extension connects normally to the Mackie DL. The result: the Mackie does its data thing (mixing, recording, playing iPad audio, etc), while the cable is free of any charging noise. Charging is provided independently to the iPad via the USB cable.
I'm not responsible from any bad stuff happening...don't try this at home unless you are comfortable doing this sort of hacking. :police:
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I had intended to get to this some time ago but... I'm glad someone else has. This points to the Mackie internal cable also being a problem since docked iPads still disconnect (no cable but internal ones). I trust that you no longer have ANY sync problems? It could also mean that the 5V power supply in the DL can't handle the full charging current of the iPad. I still have a cable that has more connections than used by the DL and it simply refuses to sync. One of these days I might get to removing the unused wires and find out which upset the iPad sufficiently to prevent sync. One note on cutting ground, you have removed the path to ground through the DL, which by the way was through a 160 ohm resistor. It is unclear what long term effect this might have if any since you are providing ground through the charger. No schematics make this trial and error. Hooking ground back up may be an interesting test. I always thought that this was too high a value and was tempted to reduce the resistor to a 51 ohm. Charging the iPad is a rather complicated affair since it also uses the data lines for status. The DL may not comply with the protocol as the Apple charger does. Measuring the charging and ground currents was also on my list.
Welcome soundog to this forum.
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Interesting info on the ground resistor. I am learning the charging on an iPad (a 3 in my case) is complex, so I have been reading up on it as much as possible. As I spend more time with this custom cable, I am learning the charging is not reliable through any 5V USB supplies I have tried (I sometimes get a "not charging" message.) That includes Apple and other versions, of varying wattages and mA.
However, regardless of whether power is supplied or not, I have successfully left the extension cable (a 3-foot version I got off of Amazon for $6 that advertised audio and video support) connected and had no sync problems after hours of connectivity, even draining the battery from 100% to 65%. Encouraging, if only I can get reliable charging power.
Lets trade notes as we go ... I would love to come up with a stable cabling setup that keeps the iPad powered up and supports all of the wired DL features. Its challenging without schematics, and treading cautiously cause I don't want to damage any equipment in the process.
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Will do. The reason for erratically charging is because you did not hook up the +/- USB data lines to the iPad from the Apple charger. This would of course conflict with the DL data lines to the iPad which may not follow the spec. A word of caution on the Li batteries they need close control or you may end up with a fire. I'm tied up for the next two weeks so I can't devote time to this (it's called retirement) ;D.
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I retired a couple of years ago, so now have time to mess with this sort of stuff. Its the best!!
I see your point on having the USB data lines connected! I want no fires, smoke, or explosions. >:D
So, for my "dual" decoupled USB charging cable + DL control data cable experiment: do you think if I connected the USB data lines (pin 25 and 27) on the cable at the iPad end only (so I would have all 4 USB connections on the USB charging cable like normal) that this might work? I am not certain which lines the DL is using to charge the iPad, but am assuming it would be 16, 23, 25, and 27. OR ... is the Mackie using 25 and 27 for sync/control data?
One question becomes how to treat any ground connections from the Mackie. Currently I have the pin 16 disconnected from the Mackie, and communication seems to be working with no loss of sync.
This dual cable hack is a fairly dramatic solution for the problem. A better solution would be to simply fix the source of the problem in the Mackie circuit, but who knows what the issue really is?? I realize that an extension cable is beyond intended usage, but I've used an extension with other iPad audio interfaces and had no issues.
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I looked at this over a year ago and AFAIK the data lines are at a certain voltage for charging levels they apparently don't interfere with communications or maybe they do. I think that you can't do both at the same time, then again I maybe thinking about USB protocol. Need to revisit the subject. I hate Apple with their "intelligent cable BS".
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all i can say is the 2' cablejive has been working nicely for me for a while now; i make sure my ipad 3 is at 100% before the night begins, and it stays connected (and at 100% charge) til the end of the night.
i also make a habit of shutting the ipad off between sets to let it cool and recharge. i shut it down straight from master fader, and it comes back straight to master fader without losing the sync.
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Soundog you may want to look at this http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=464.msg3462#msg3462
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Thanks WK, that's helpful as I haven't opened my DL. The connections are similar to those in a camera connection kit.
I'm assuming all the GNDs you mention on the DL connector side are tied (common)?
The problem with extension cables dropping sync is still a mystery. Based on what I've seen so far, I may try another experiment in which i isolate/shield the power lines (3.3 and 5V) from all other lines (but keep all connections between the DL and iPad the same) to see if the cause is some sort of interference/capacitance problem. If not, it may be increased resistance in the length of the lines, and changing the resistor size on the DL end may be a cure.
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Grounds all common on the DL side before 160 ohm resistor. Internal cable shield also tied to common. Where would you tie the shield drain from the power lines to?
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I bought a 2ft 30 pin extension from ebay and not surprisingly I was a bit disappointed when it didn't work for more than 15 seconds... not that disappointed since it was really cheap. However, after reading this I did a quick experiment yesterday and when the iPad is fully charged it holds the sync reliably and reconnects when required (after iPad has dropped into standby). Great find by Kevin. For my purposes it sounds like cutting the power cables within the extension would be the best strategy, which would mean I can fit a nice protective case and still be able to go to hard wired when I have wireless issues (thankfully not that often).
Now, Mackie... sort out your charging circuit!!!
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Soundog more on this here: http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=498.msg7231#msg7231
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thx wk .... i just read the thread, and will continue to follow it to see if any hackpatch is discovered. for now i am using a 3 foot extension with the 5V power line severed, ipad 3 fully charged before a gig. this is working OK, but i wish there was a firmware fix available from Mackie. you listening, Mackie?