Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: WK154 on July 22, 2013, 03:16:14 AM
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Looking back at the announced ship dates from China the X series including the latest compact have been a pretty consistent 8 week for arrival in the US. The latest Compact announced as shipping on 5/25/13 just arrived at major retailers that's 8 weeks The just announced core is shipping now and we hope to see it mid September. The rack if it makes it out as promised by the end of the month will arrive at the end of September beginning of October for those waiting. Greg C is waiting patiently for an answer from Uli about the timetable of the iX16. I hope he gets his answer soon. As a point of interest both the rack and core ship without the XUF interface, it's an option but they ship with the XUSB interface. There is some rumor that Starin (the sole US distributor for Behringer) may be dragging their heels ordering the units. I hope they patch the leaks in the rowboats soon or get their buyers to move faster. Anyone have a clue on DL series volume?
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Another nail in the "M" coffin, the X32 rack is shipping from China 8/1/13 and on time again!! See it in your local stores in 8 weeks. At $1499 (map) less tablet PC or iPad if you must also without WiFi access point or XUF board, but with Xusb. This puts it very close to the DL none the less. Oh and yes the core slipped out the door while we weren't looking. So the only one left is the producer. No info on the iX16 however.
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Well as promised and on time the following was posted by Uli. So in 8 weeks or so you'll see the first of them in the US.
Dear all,
I am pleased to announce that we are currently shipping the X32 Producer from our factory.
This now concludes the shipment of all X32 models (Compact, Producer, Rack & Core).
Thank you for your patience.
Warm regards
Uli
That just leaves the iX16 that is of great interest to potential DL buyers. The rack model is the one that easily competes with the DL on overall $ so why wait? October is around the corner.
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OK so now can I have a 24 channel, rack mount DL 2412 with 4 assignable FX engines and groups all with HUI/midi control over "Master Fader 24" via the iPad camera kit (or the current equivalent) all for under £1000?
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You'd have to ask Mackie about their future. Good luck! The London fog make it all the way up to Manchester?
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No fog up here, its a long way from London :-)
As interesting as the Behringer units are, I'll be sticking with the Mackie for the time being. I like what it does, I generally like how it sounds (some slightly better reverbs would be nice), I like the interface and I like that it is reliable. If anything I would look at the Behringer kit for a second system should the need arise for more channels, etc.
Good luck to those who do sell up and move across, I'll be interested to see how they perform.
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Don't misconstrue the post it's about shipping schedules. I have in the past had my differences with Behringer engineering on some of their products mostly minor ones. They have their own set of problems but at least they have a forum with Behringer people responding to it. The one thing that Mackie fails miserably on is their UI (User Interface) for live performances. I don't know about you but I take pride in my work and when a POS kit gets in the way of that it's gone. Mackie has had 3 versions to fix this problem (since users complained) and has not done so. The UI in general is not geared well to live performances but mostly to time wasting cute moves.
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My post was in no way a slight at Behringer, I have used some of their kit in the past and found it to work very well. More than happy to see some interesting products out there and hope that those that seem to have issues with the DL find what they are looking for.
I do indeed take pride in my work and, so far, I have not found the interface to be that clumsy or poorly designed that it has interfered with me getting a good live mix and managing any feedback I do encounter. Other peoples' mileage may vary ;D
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Didn't detect any slight nor implied you did. I just want folks to know that every manufacturer has their problems but it's about how they go about addressing them that's of concern. We could start a thread that focused on the UI and how it could be changed but Mackie already has a ton of suggestions on their own website falling on deaf ears.
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Get your core X32 here if they have any left at American Music Supply.
http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-X32CORE-LIST?src=A0807AFLHAMS0000&utm_source=amsaffiliatecj&utm_campaign=10587833
Another 8 weeks almost to the day delivery.
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X32 Rack should be available Sept. 25th or thereabouts. Still nothing on the iX16's fate. Q4 speculation or Christmas present.
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Am I missing something? This is just a rack mounted brain with digital I/O - you have to get a stage-box for the I/O.
It's $999 - same as the DL1608 - but out of the box it's essentially useless if you don't have the stage box.
It's $899 for the 16 channel "snake" (actually just the stage box - snake comes separately) on AMS: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-S16
Why are you posting multiple times about the ship-date for a product that is NOT in direct competition to the DL1608?
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I think the title of the post gives a clue? Then again its just as useless as the Dl without a iPad. The core can be controlled from the front panel unlike the DL. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. From a price point of view they're close enough from a capabilities point of view they're miles apart.
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Wk I have to correct you on one thing. The core is not controllable from the front panel, the rack is. And as soon as I get my hands on one it's bye bye Mackie. And cyber hippy all the behringer digital mixers are in direct competition to Mackie DL. It all depends on what you want. I personally want a good mixer that is remote controllable from an iPad. Be it $999 or $2799 all the behringer mixers, as well as the dl1608, can do this. And the behringer rack will do it a lot better. I also consider the size, weight, functionality, and portability of things as well.The rack is only about 7lbs heavier than the Mackie and takes a small footprint as well. For not much more money it is going to blow the DL out of the water.
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JL I grant you that it only has limited control from the front panel and the pres have their own control on the S16 but it's certainly not "no control". I have used my XDM system for over 6 yrs. and limited adjustments is all it ever required. It is now 95% wireless (power cord is the problem) with 8 wireless mics and two stereo input devises. It cost me $1205 including the wireless mics and PC tablet in it's current configuration. The Dl with AP and iPad alone ran $1553, no mics.
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I think the title of the post gives a clue? Then again its just as useless as the Dl without a iPad. The core can be controlled from the front panel unlike the DL. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. From a price point of view they're close enough from a capabilities point of view they're miles apart.
The title of the post is "X series time table" - so OK, you're informing us of the shipping time table for a product from a competitor, that isn't in direct price competition with the DL (both need the iPad to be truly useful, don't tell me you're going to be mixing a show using the front panel input on that thing).
As far as I can tell the entire purpose of your post and follow-up is to troll DL users, which given my response has been a rousing success.
@Jerry: "all the behringer digital mixers are in direct competition to Mackie D" … I disagree. None of them have the same functionality & price point, other than the X16 which is currently not available.
A friend of mine was very interested in the X32 but was struggling with the "Behringer" factor. He wound up getting the Soundcraft Expression 3, which I used at a show this past weekend. The other mixer he was looking at was the Presonus Studiolive 32. The DL1604 wasn't considered because it wasn't right for his needs. The guy that sold him the Expression said "You can thank Behringer for that - without them that would be a $10,000 mixer"
The X32 products mentioned in your post are not in direct competition with the DL1608 as they need an additional investment for I/O.
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Once again it's about a time table of availability for the X series which seem to be of interest to a lot of the forum members and nothing else. So take your own advise Hippie and Shut Up!
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Every mixing board on the planet is in direct competition with the Mackie. And behringer made theirs to have iPad control to DIRECTLY compete with any mixer that uses iPad control. Just because it more $ doesn't mean it's not in direct competition. That's like saying a Lamborghini is not in direct competition with Ferrari because there is a price difference. Guess what, they also complete with corvettes, porche and lotus all which are tons cheaper.
And you say they don't have the same functionality? Ok, they don't have a dock connector, but other than that not only do they have the same functionality but they have a lot more. And for only a little more $. I sure call that direct competition. A much, much better mixer for only a little more money. The $500 is puny compared to the features you get. If I wasn't playing a gig right now I would add a ton more to this.
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<special sauce removed> Every mixing board on the planet is in direct competition with the Mackie. And behringer made theirs to have iPad control to DIRECTLY compete with any mixer that uses iPad control. Just because it more $ doesn't mean it's not in direct competition. That's like saying a Lamborghini is not in direct competition with Ferrari because there is a price difference. Guess what, they also complete with corvettes, porche and lotus all which are tons cheaper.
Soooo… "every mixing board on the planet is in direct competition with the Mackie" so the Soundcraft Vi series, DiGiCo, Digidesign Venue… all of them?
Clearly we have a different concept of "competition" - in my world there are niches where strong competition takes place (Ferari/Lamborghini in your comparison) and areas where there is no competition (Ferrari vs Corvette - the people who are buying Ferraris aren't looking at current Corvettes, possibly they're considering a '55 corvette for their collection).
In this case we're talking about a $999 mixer with 16 preamps and 8 outputs vs. a $999 mixer with digital I/O that requires further investment to get the sound sources into it. I don't see that as direct competition.
And you say they don't have the same functionality? Ok, they don't have a dock connector, but other than that not only do they have the same functionality but they have a lot more. And for only a little more $. I sure call that direct competition. A much, much better mixer for only a little more money. The $500 is puny compared to the features you get. If I wasn't playing a gig right now I would add a ton more to this.
The lack of preamps is actually the major difference in functionality I was referring to. The X32 is completely non-functional without an external I/O device, which costs money ($899 was the first I found in my quick search) so in reality to get to the same level of capability as the DL1608 your minimum investment is $1898 - that extra $899 is certainly going to be a major stumbling block for the average user (which is the demographic for the 1608).
The X16 will be direct competition for the DL1608 if it ever materializes.
Price point is one area of competition, name recognition and reputation is another of course. Many people have had perfectly good experiences with Behringer - for me their outboard gear and amps have worked well and consistently. But every time I've been asked to use one of their mixers there has been something wrong I had to work around on it - often the master fader has gone bad so you have to mix through aux's or alt. So my taste for their name is sour.
Once again it's about a time table of availability for the X series which seem to be of interest to a lot of the forum members and nothing else. So take your own advise Hippie and Shut Up!
Sorry I accused you of trolling, I get where you're coming from now. I've been doing a lot of festival work, running a stage & helping with the setup & teardown of main stages, so after several 50+-hour work-weekends I'm getting kinda burnt out… which makes me punchy.
And no, I'm not gonna Shut Up ;D
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Cyber again you have no clue what you are talking about. "The x32 is completely nonfunctional without an external I/O device." Please read what you are saying before you submit it. Maybe you haven't heard of the x32 rack, the x32 producer, the x32 compact or even the x32. All of which have a lot more I/O then the dl1608. You really need to get over the $$$$ thing. There are thousands and thousands of products in direct competition with other products that are priced way different. Direct competition is not all about price. It's more about needs and wants. I think your only need is to save $$$. And your only want is to have a narrow mind and believe that your opinion on price and competition, though very flawed, is the only one that matters. Isn't there a huge ad campaign on television right now regarding a windows tablet and a iPad? The biggest point they make is that one is $299 and the other is $699. But cyber, if we use your logic, they are not in competition at all. Too bad a billion dollar company disagrees with you.
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Something else to add to cybers flawed idea of competition. How many people remember the old forums where many were debating between the DL, presonus 16.4, and the line 6. With cybers thinking at 999 vs 1999 vs 2499 it shouldn't have been a debate at all because price level says that they are not in direct competition. Why would anyone even be talking about them if they weren't direct competition. Why did Mackie delete my post about the x32 rack if it wasn't direct competition? Why are we even talking about the x32 on another Mackie forums if they are not in direct competition? Etc etc etc …
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Cyber again you have no clue what you are talking about. "The x32 is completely nonfunctional without an external I/O device." Please read what you are saying before you submit it. Maybe you haven't heard of the x32 rack, the x32 producer, the x32 compact or even the x32. All of which have a lot more I/O then the dl1608. You really need to get over the $$$$ thing. There are thousands and thousands of products in direct competition with other products that are priced way different. Direct competition is not all about price. It's more about needs and wants. I think your only need is to save $$$. And your only want is to have a narrow mind and believe that your opinion on price and competition, though very flawed, is the only one that matters. Isn't there a huge ad campaign on television right now regarding a windows tablet and a iPad? The biggest point they make is that one is $299 and the other is $699. But cyber, if we use your logic, they are not in competition at all. Too bad a billion dollar company disagrees with you.
You're right, I was focused on the Core in my replies because it seemed like the closest price to the DL1608 (thus the argument about direct competition), but now I see the Compact and the Rack both have XLR/preamps.
So, really the Rack at $1499 is the real competition to the DL1608 until the X16 materializes.
It would certainly be a good choice for an advanced user like any of us in this conversation, but I've installed DL1608's in several small clubs & wine-tasting rooms (NorCal) and I would still go that way over the X32 Rack at this time - setup & training has been very successful and they have no need to hire an engineer for most of their shows.
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Be that as it may, I can see installing the DL over the X32 Rack for novice users. The X32 generally speaking is a relatively complex beast. The DL "looks" more alike analog board to basic users that can barely operate an all-in-one PA head with hardly any knobs. Now if it were only myself and more experienced users running the mixer, X32 all the way.
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The down side to all this that it's about LOVE, HATE, EGOS, and MONEY, but the good part is that it's NON-TRANSFERABLE. FGS it's a timetable!!!
Prove me wrong just send $$$.
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OK, I knew the dogsleds were faster than the slow boat from China. Finland has racks and not the ones on their reindeer. October 8th is actually the 8 week cycle and the current best guess from major suppliers is October 10. Not too far off after fighting those cruise ship pirates!
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Finally after 12 weeks the rack is finally shipping from Sweetwater and others. Probably the most popular form of the X32 line is out in the US. This changes the otherwise consistent 8 week cycle from China. It was good while it lasted but still in time for Xmas.
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The iX16 apparently didn't fare to well. The latest from a B person is that it was redesigned to add more features. Hmmm were have I heard that before?
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The iX16 apparently didn't fare to well. The latest from a B person is that it was redesigned to add more features. Hmmm were have I heard that before?
I'm guessing that they found that designing a wired interface for the iPads was a lot harder than the rest of the design. Apple sucks. OTOH I hope they are going to add a 1/8" stereo input and maybe a talkback input in addition to the 16 channels of a DL1608 - having to burn three channels for that sucks, a 16 channel mixer would be much more useful than the 13 you end up with on the DL1608 :( .
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I don't think that's the problem since they already have that in the iStudio. I think it has far more to do with production and factory space and people. I wouldn't be surprised if this is slated to be the first unit to be build in the new factory that's being build and targeted for completion in the fall of 2014 (with luck). Outsourcing this may be a bad decision and the damage if QC isn't super tight could be immense not to mention more costly. They could just let it trickle out of the present facility and bear the grumbling. Mackie now has to make a decision on when to release V2 now that they have more time. Should be interesting.
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Here's one for the conspiracy theorists. Mackie paid Sweetwater to buy up all the X32 racks and delay selling them for as long as they dared. V2 of MF needed more time. >:D