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Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: JMc on November 11, 2013, 06:31:17 PM

Title: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: JMc on November 11, 2013, 06:31:17 PM
Just downloaded both moments ago.  Let the good times roll..
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: CyberHippy on November 11, 2013, 06:44:38 PM
Thar She Blows!

Downloaded & testing right now.

Reverb & Delay channels now show the image for the type chosen where the EQ is for other channels.

Too bad I don't have a show to test it out at for a while, using it for my daily interface w/computer but that's pretty light (hi-pass & compression)

Setting up my "standard" show so all Aux's are pre-DSP, reverb is pre-fader, leaving delay post-fader

Interesting: I removed my iPad and did a bunch of setup for my Standard show, saved, then re-docked. It asked where to get the info, so I chose "iPad" but for some reason it went with the show that was stored in the 1608. Something to look out for...

Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 11, 2013, 07:15:56 PM
I'm downloading it right now.  I've got 5 days to make sure it all works before my next gig.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 07:20:22 PM
Interesting: I removed my iPad and did a bunch of setup for my Standard show, saved, then re-docked. It asked where to get the info, so I chose "iPad" but for some reason it went with the show that was stored in the 1608. Something to look out for...
It did in fact load the show file from the iPad - BUT it didn't load your snapshot into the DL1608 as the active configuration. Instead it ALWAYS displays the present state of the DL1608 in Master/My Fader when you connect. You have to go and recall your updated snapshot if that is what you want to use. This all makes sense if you think it through but certainly isn't obvious - I learned it the hard way myself x( .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 11, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
When you upgraded the iPad, did it retain shows and presets?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 11, 2013, 07:53:07 PM
Mine retained all my shows and snapshots.  I've started configuring the assigned mutes and views.  Will hook it up to my mixer later today.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Tnelson494 on November 11, 2013, 08:23:14 PM
Little confused with the pre DSP ... Not sure why you when you select it the prefader check disappears is it automatically set to prefader as well when you select preDSP ? I won't have access to my PA rig for a week or so otherwise I'd just test it my self :(
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 11, 2013, 08:36:18 PM
Little confused with the pre DSP ... Not sure why you when you select it the prefader check disappears is it automatically set to prefader as well when you select preDSP ? I won't have access to my PA rig for a week or so otherwise I'd just test it my self :(

The fader is after the DSP. Pre DSP is inherently prefader. It's preprefader.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 08:59:03 PM
Note that their definition of DSP is the EQ and dynamics processing only. I guess the rest of the mixer's signal paths aren't DSP LOL.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 11, 2013, 09:09:18 PM
It's nice to see some very useful features with 2.0. There is still some work to be done mackie. But thanks for the great update.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 11, 2013, 09:15:53 PM
Can someone verify that the main mute only mutes the mains not the aux's?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 09:16:56 PM
BTW a channel on the X32 products goes:
Gain, Delay, LPF, Gate, EQ, Compression, Fader
with possible aux send tap points of:
Pre-EQ, Post-EQ, Pre-Fader, and Post-Fader.
The DL1608 presently only does:
pre-DSP, pre-fader, and post-fader
and lacks the delay. I also don't know the actual order of the stuff in the LPF/Gate/EQ/Compression (AKA "DSP") block? Kinda unforyunate that the pre-DSP is pre-HPF and gate :( .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 09:18:47 PM
Can someone verify that the main mute only mutes the mains not the aux's?
You can set it either way :) .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 11, 2013, 09:25:07 PM
Here I go with my first big complaint: Why did they make the quick access panel move the screen over??? What was that thinking? You can still use the app with it open except for about an inch of the left side. And it's not the channel that is the issue to me. The issue is when you go into a dynamics setting. You lose the "mixer" button. You have to close out the panel to return to the mixer. Now that was just dumb. The panel should be on top but not move over the screen. Did they not test it? Seems like a no brainier to me.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 11, 2013, 09:31:46 PM
Can someone verify that the main mute only mutes the mains not the aux's?
You can set it either way :) .

So I am guessing your answer is yes?  That's a big feature for me. I hate having to drop the mains to set up monitors.

What about this one: am I now able to mute channels in the mains but still have them active in the auxes. And still have music playing in the mains? This way I can actually set up monitor mixes while still having my mains play music for the crowd. I am not sure this is yet possible.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Harpman on November 11, 2013, 09:46:29 PM
Mine retained all the shows and settings. Liking it so far

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 09:49:04 PM
Here I go with my first big complaint: Why did they make the quick access panel move the screen over??? What was that thinking? You can still use the app with it open except for about an inch of the left side. And it's not the channel that is the issue to me. The issue is when you go into a dynamics setting. You lose the "mixer" button. You have to close out the panel to return to the mixer.
You can just hit the GEQ over the main fader twice ;) . Also if you limit each view to seven channels or less you don't lose one entirely off the left edge when you keep the QAP open :) .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 09:53:44 PM
What about this one: am I now able to mute channels in the mains but still have them active in the auxes. And still have music playing in the mains? This way I can actually set up monitor mixes while still having my mains play music for the crowd. I am not sure this is yet possible.
Yep, it's your lucky day :) . However I've just always pulled down the channel faders while setting up monitor mixes.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: CyberHippy on November 11, 2013, 10:09:13 PM
Interesting: I removed my iPad and did a bunch of setup for my Standard show, saved, then re-docked. It asked where to get the info, so I chose "iPad" but for some reason it went with the show that was stored in the 1608. Something to look out for...
It did in fact load the show file from the iPad - BUT it didn't load your snapshot into the DL1608 as the active configuration. Instead it ALWAYS displays the present state of the DL1608 in Master/My Fader when you connect. You have to go and recall your updated snapshot if that is what you want to use. This all makes sense if you think it through but certainly isn't obvious - I learned it the hard way myself x( .

You are correct, that does make sense
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Cshumack on November 11, 2013, 10:11:01 PM
Let me see if I understand the post fader option on aux sends.  I want to use one of my sends to connect to the house system to cover the back of the bar.  Does using post send on that aux mean that my individual channel faders do not change the volume of that channel?  I'm basically looking to duplicate my LR send.  If this is true, why does selecting post fade still allow me to move the channel faders?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 11, 2013, 10:14:34 PM
Here I go with my first big complaint: Why did they make the quick access panel move the screen over??? What was that thinking? You can still use the app with it open except for about an inch of the left side. And it's not the channel that is the issue to me. The issue is when you go into a dynamics setting. You lose the "mixer" button. You have to close out the panel to return to the mixer. Now that was just dumb. The panel should be on top but not move over the screen. Did they not test it? Seems like a no brainier to me.

I agree Jerry, that's just plain silly  ::) why didn't they think of that. Still, lots of new goodies on offer so mustn't grumble  ;D
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: CyberHippy on November 11, 2013, 10:16:57 PM
Cool, just got four emails from Mackie.uservoice.com

completed: 'Pre Fader Options'
completed: 'Make a stereo channel'
completed: 'Add Break Switch'
completed: 'Remove unused channels'
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 11, 2013, 10:30:02 PM
What about this one: am I now able to mute channels in the mains but still have them active in the auxes. And still have music playing in the mains? This way I can actually set up monitor mixes while still having my mains play music for the crowd. I am not sure this is yet possible.
Yep, it's your lucky day :) . However I've just always pulled down the channel faders while setting up monitor mixes.

How exactly do you do this?  I cannot see how to mute individual channels just in the mains. (With the channel fader up, see below)

RR when I posed that question I missed a part. Let's say I have already set up the main mix with all the channels. I know if I have the fader down in the mains I can change aux channels. But I want to do this after they are up. Sometimes during breaks someone will as me to change a monitor setting. I have to unmute the channel to do this. If they are up in the mains it will come through. So can I now say I want channels 1-14 to be muted in the mains only even if their faders are already up?

This is one of my big reasons for switching to the x32. (One of several). With just 16 inputs I can make a virtual monitor mixer on another 16 channels that will be dedicated to the monitor sends only. It's like having 2 boards. I can mess with monitors all day long completely separate of the main mix.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 10:32:47 PM
Let me see if I understand the post fader option on aux sends.  I want to use one of my sends to connect to the house system to cover the back of the bar.  Does using post send on that aux mean that my individual channel faders do not change the volume of that channel?  I'm basically looking to duplicate my LR send.  If this is true, why does selecting post fade still allow me to move the channel faders?
No, the faders on that aux's "layer" still affect the volume and this is entirely "industry" normal. If you want an exact copy of your LR mix just set them all to "zero". OTOH if that is all you want why not just split the LR outs with "Y" cables?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 10:35:39 PM
How exactly do you do this?  I cannot see how to mute individual channels just in the mains.
Select each aux "layer" and press the "Pre Fader" button to drop down a menu - unselect "Use LR Mute" :) .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 10:41:16 PM
This is one of my big reasons for switching to the x32. (One of several). With just 16 inputs I can make a virtual monitor mixer on another 16 channels that will be dedicated to the monitor sends only. It's like having 2 boards. I can mess with monitors all day long completely separate of the main mix.
Yup, you can do that on most any digital mixer that supports input routing and has half the channels unused :) . You can do the same thing on a DL1608 with "Y" cables if you only need 8 channels or if you only need separate EQ/dynamics on a few channels - this was commonly done on analog mixers too, especially for the lead vocal channel.

Oh, and AFAIK there's no reason they couldn't have separate EQ/dynamics on the DL1608 for monitors vs mains - it would just take a "few" lines of code LOL.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Cshumack on November 11, 2013, 10:41:24 PM
Let me see if I understand the post fader option on aux sends.  I want to use one of my sends to connect to the house system to cover the back of the bar.  Does using post send on that aux mean that my individual channel faders do not change the volume of that channel?  I'm basically looking to duplicate my LR send.  If this is true, why does selecting post fade still allow me to move the channel faders?
No, the faders on that aux's "layer" still affect the volume and this is entirely "industry" normal. If you want an exact copy of your LR mix just set them all to "zero". OTOH if that is all you want why not just split the LR outs with "Y" cables?

The house system in tis bar wants a quarter out to them.  Thanks. I will set the channels on the aux to zero.  I' assuming you mean not on the bottom but unity.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 10:45:08 PM
Correct - although there is no "unity" and the bottom is "minus infinity".
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: ijpengelly on November 11, 2013, 10:59:48 PM
Glad it didn't take a silly amount of time from announcement to getting it out to users. Just had a tinker about and updated the firmware on the DL, the features are looking good. Now I just need to figure out what to do with all the new tricks.

I agree with JerryLee about the quick access panel, it is slightly vexing that it pushes everything over, rather than being layered over the top.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 11, 2013, 11:08:12 PM
Thanks. I will set the channels on the aux to zero.  I' assuming you mean not on the bottom but unity.

I find it almost impossible to set faders to a specific value. Same with Yamaha's StageMix. In Master Fader, though, if you touch a fader, you get its value in the parameter window at the top. Select it, and backspace until it's gone. That's my shortcut to zero. I use postfader auxes all the time, to recorders, or balcony fills, or center fills. Having the faders active in those auxes means I can do things like leave the guitar amp out of the center fills. Punters down front don't really need more guitar amp when they're staring straight at it face high.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Timmy on November 11, 2013, 11:49:28 PM
Playing around, I linked 1&2... Then I unlinked, then. I had channel 1 on 1&2... Channel 2 was gone...
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Timmy on November 11, 2013, 11:57:10 PM
This was after I unlinked....
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 11, 2013, 11:57:46 PM
Well, when you linked two channels it becomes a stereo version of the left one. When you unlink them again I guess you expect them to go back to what they were before linking. I think it makes perfect sense that instead it just actually splits the channel into two that have the same settings as the stereo one had. When you link then the left channel settings are copied into the right channel "under the hood". The DL1608 has no way of knowing what was there before linking.

And what do you mean that #2 was gone? It's right there, second from the left with the number "2" in the upper left corner :) .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Timmy on November 12, 2013, 12:00:13 AM
Well, when you linked two channels it becomes a stereo version of the left one. When you unlink them again I guess you expect them to go back to what they were before linking. I think it makes perfect sense that instead it just actually splits the channel into two that have the same settings as the stereo one had.

And what do you mean that #2 was gone? It's right there, second from the left with the number "2" in the upper left corner :) .

Thanks smartazz hahaha

Number 1 was mimicked after the unlink..... Look at last pic...
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 12, 2013, 12:02:32 AM
Number 1 was mimicked after the unlink..... Look at last pic..
No, the channel was split AKA unlinked. What you now see on channel #2 is the settings that were on the stereo pair - makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 12, 2013, 01:21:45 AM
Since when is a Guest Comedian Timmy allowed to post?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 12, 2013, 02:06:26 AM
Since when is a Guest Comedian Timmy allowed to post?
Looks like he deleted his account, we musta made him cry :'( .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: dpdan on November 12, 2013, 02:11:31 AM
I just went through V2.0 Master Fader and My Fader with a fine toothed comb and EVERYTHING seems to be great.

This Saturday will be my first job using 2.0 so let's hope everything is peachy fine.

:)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Topsøe on November 12, 2013, 06:20:48 AM
Well, when you linked two channels it becomes a stereo version of the left one. When you unlink them again I guess you expect them to go back to what they were before linking. I think it makes perfect sense that instead it just actually splits the channel into two that have the same settings as the stereo one had. When you link then the left channel settings are copied into the right channel "under the hood". The DL1608 has no way of knowing what was there before linking.

And what do you mean that #2 was gone? It's right there, second from the left with the number "2" in the upper left corner :) .


If you link from ch 1 it links ch 1 and 2 with the settings of ch 1 , if you link from ch 2 it links ch1 and 2 with the settings of ch 2
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 12, 2013, 08:19:06 AM
Well, when you linked two channels it becomes a stereo version of the left one. When you unlink them again I guess you expect them to go back to what they were before linking. I think it makes perfect sense that instead it just actually splits the channel into two that have the same settings as the stereo one had. When you link then the left channel settings are copied into the right channel "under the hood". The DL1608 has no way of knowing what was there before linking.

And what do you mean that #2 was gone? It's right there, second from the left with the number "2" in the upper left corner :) .


If you link from ch 1 it links ch 1 and 2 with the settings of ch 1 , if you link from ch 2 it links ch1 and 2 with the settings of ch 2

I did say  that the devil is in the details and this is a sad implementation of "stereo" channels. To combine two channels by using one channels eq's and dynamics is a poor excuse for "stereo" called dual mono. You can't even use this as a two channel DCA. We all know how to duplicate channel settings so to take up two channels to control loudness with one fader is a joke. That's on the input side. On the output side the same situation exists, something that can be done with one aux channel and a splitter cable. That's the best Mackie can do, dual mono out.  :lol:
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Topsøe on November 12, 2013, 08:49:21 AM
Well, when you linked two channels it becomes a stereo version of the left one. When you unlink them again I guess you expect them to go back to what they were before linking. I think it makes perfect sense that instead it just actually splits the channel into two that have the same settings as the stereo one had. When you link then the left channel settings are copied into the right channel "under the hood". The DL1608 has no way of knowing what was there before linking.

And what do you mean that #2 was gone? It's right there, second from the left with the number "2" in the upper left corner :) .


I did say  that the devil is in the details and this is a sad implementation of "stereo" channels. To combine two channels by using one channels eq's and dynamics is a poor excuse for "stereo" called dual mono. You can't even use this as a two channel DCA. We all know how to duplicate channel settings so to take up two channels to control loudness with one fader is a joke. That's on the input side. On the output side the same situation exists, something that can be done with one aux channel and a splitter cable. That's the best Mackie can do, dual mono out.  :lol:

It makes perfect sense to have the choise to copy the eq from ch 1 or 2 when coupled to stereo , and on the output you can couple two aux to a stereo set with pan (that can be seperate from l/r)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Ampli on November 12, 2013, 09:46:06 AM
Looks that the programmer is doing the best he can but has no idea what hes programming in regarding mixing
Would be also nice if they did give the option to split the main lr in 2 seperated channels. Or 2 geq on this output.
Biggest improvement is the coupling of the 2 input channels, even if it is dual mono, and ofcourse the vieuw groups
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 12:47:26 PM
Well the wait is finally over. Good news is that none of you have to reformat your computers with IBM OS/2 so you can run SETI and WordStar at the same time. Mackie has kicked some major ass with this release and iOS7 seems to be a very stable platform to run both MineCraft and MaterFader at the same time (just in case you get bored). I see a lot of the bells and whistles everyone has been asking for. Got it up and running in no time. Channel linking - WAY COOL! Hiding unwanted channels - that's gonna make navigation much easier in some scenarios. PRE-DSP AUX Sends - this was a big wish from me. Appears that Mackie IS listening to our wishes and the DL is going to be the unit that the Behringer fans wish they had purchased in the first place. Congratulations Mackie! Keep it coming!
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 01:16:20 PM
Pre-DSP with LR Mute OFF is going to be a HUGE benefit for my setup. As someone else posted, being able to monkey with monitors without sharing that with the entire room is awesome. Being able to change the reverb to PRE-Fader and have only effected instruments without turning them up louder in the mains is another biggie for me.

On the other hand, NOT having seperate LR EQs in any scenario might be nice to have but just not a game changer.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Harpman on November 12, 2013, 02:06:03 PM
Thar She Blows!

Downloaded & testing right now.

Reverb & Delay channels now show the image for the type chosen where the EQ is for other channels.

Too bad I don't have a show to test it out at for a while, using it for my daily interface w/computer but that's pretty light (hi-pass & compression)

Setting up my "standard" show so all Aux's are pre-DSP, reverb is pre-fader, leaving delay post-fader

Interesting: I removed my iPad and did a bunch of setup for my Standard show, saved, then re-docked. It asked where to get the info, so I chose "iPad" but for some reason it went with the show that was stored in the 1608. Something to look out for...

This is a major flaw...  Had the same issue as you CyberHippy.  I too made some settings from my iPad, re-docked, specified the iPad and it loaded the show that was stored on the console.  Mackie needs to fix this!!
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Harpman on November 12, 2013, 02:14:13 PM
Pre-DSP with LR Mute OFF is going to be a HUGE benefit for my setup. As someone else posted, being able to monkey with monitors without sharing that with the entire room is awesome. Being able to change the reverb to PRE-Fader and have only effected instruments without turning them up louder in the mains is another biggie for me.

On the other hand, NOT having seperate LR EQs in any scenario might be nice to have but just not a game changer.

Lee, totally agree with you here.  One thing I've never been able to figure out is why when you mute the REV and DLY on the individual channel strip, it doesn't mute on the overall channel strip.  Anyone want to chime in here?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 12, 2013, 02:53:36 PM
I'm not getting the complaint about the channel linking.  I was thinking that might be nice for my two keyboards, then the EQs became the same.  I haven't had it hooked up to an output yet, so maybe that's what I'm not understanding.  I did think that when linked the channels would output to different sides and that wouldn't work for me.  Will allow myself some extra time Friday when setting up for the gig.  I don't think channel linking will be much help for me personally.   The mutes, pre-dsp and channel views are all big pluses.  (For me and probably everyone else.)   
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 12, 2013, 03:00:26 PM
Stereo channel linking is only useful for stereo sources going to a stereo PA or recording - and they didn't get it quite right anyways as you need the option of having a "width" control instead of a "pan" or "balance" control. Those mixers I've used that had stereo linking all had width controls so you can blend some of the left into the right and vis versa.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 03:37:19 PM
Stereo channel linking is only useful for stereo sources going to a stereo PA or recording - and they didn't get it quite right anyways as you need the option of having a "width" control instead of a "pan" or "balance" control. Those mixers I've used that had stereo linking all had width controls so you can blend some of the left into the right and vis versa.

I have my external audio source running into 2 channels that I have now linked. I don't think that I had realized that the audio source L & R were now flattened to a MONO mix. If that is true, that's not gonna work for me either.  :o
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 12, 2013, 04:12:00 PM
Stereo channel linking is only useful for stereo sources going to a stereo PA or recording - and they didn't get it quite right anyways as you need the option of having a "width" control instead of a "pan" or "balance" control. Those mixers I've used that had stereo linking all had width controls so you can blend some of the left into the right and vis versa.

I have my external audio source running into 2 channels that I have now linked. I don't think that I had realized that the audio source L & R were now flattened to a MONO mix. If that is true, that's not gonna work for me either.  :o

That is not the case, if you link two channels they become a stereo pair, the input of the lower numbered channel feeds the left main output and the higher numbered channel feeds the right main output. As RR says the pan control does become a balance control as opposed to 'width'.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 04:16:54 PM
Stereo channel linking is only useful for stereo sources going to a stereo PA or recording - and they didn't get it quite right anyways as you need the option of having a "width" control instead of a "pan" or "balance" control. Those mixers I've used that had stereo linking all had width controls so you can blend some of the left into the right and vis versa.

I have my external audio source running into 2 channels that I have now linked. I don't think that I had realized that the audio source L & R were now flattened to a MONO mix. If that is true, that's not gonna work for me either.  :o

That is not the case, if you link two channels they become a stereo pair, the input of the lower numbered channel feeds the left main output and the higher numbered channel feeds the right main output. As RR says the pan control does become a balance control as opposed to 'width'.

PFEW! For a minute I thought I had this totally wrong.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 12, 2013, 04:55:32 PM
How exactly do you do this?  I cannot see how to mute individual channels just in the mains.
Select each aux "layer" and press the "Pre Fader" button to drop down a menu - unselect "Use LR Mute" :) .

Sweet. Thanks RR.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 12, 2013, 05:31:31 PM
That is not the case, if you link two channels they become a stereo pair, the input of the lower numbered channel feeds the left main output and the higher numbered channel feeds the right main output. As RR says the pan control does become a balance control as opposed to 'width'.

which exactly the implementation of channel linking that I hoped for. My primary application is stereo playback from an external device.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 05:41:46 PM
That is not the case, if you link two channels they become a stereo pair, the input of the lower numbered channel feeds the left main output and the higher numbered channel feeds the right main output. As RR says the pan control does become a balance control as opposed to 'width'.

which exactly the implementation of channel linking that I hoped for. My primary application is stereo playback from an external device.

So to dubunk some earlier quote, it's not a MONO pair, it's STEREO IN STEREO OUT with a common eq. Fine by me!  :D
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: JMc on November 12, 2013, 06:49:30 PM
Just to verify, my understanding is that all the 1/4" aux sends coming out of the board are balanced TRS connectors, right?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 12, 2013, 06:51:03 PM
Just to verify, my understanding is that all the 1/4" aux sends coming out of the board are balanced TRS connectors, right?
Correct :)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: JMc on November 12, 2013, 06:57:10 PM
Thank you.  And I am going to assume that most, if not all pro PA amps are using either XLR or 1/4" TRS balanced ins, so I will be out looking for some TRS to XLR or TRS to TRS patch cables today, because my intention is to run a linked stereo pair of AUX outputs to the PA for the FOH mix and reserve the MAIN outs for a recording mix only and see how that works out for awhile.  I may even run the main outs out to a split pair into my in-ear monitor transmitter so I can monitor the stereo recording mix as we're playing.  Ah...  Looking forward to more experimentation and fun...
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Stratoblaster on November 12, 2013, 07:29:42 PM
I like the 2.0 update! Great job Mackie! Many good things indeed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 12, 2013, 07:33:30 PM
That is not the case, if you link two channels they become a stereo pair, the input of the lower numbered channel feeds the left main output and the higher numbered channel feeds the right main output. As RR says the pan control does become a balance control as opposed to 'width'.

which exactly the implementation of channel linking that I hoped for. My primary application is stereo playback from an external device.

So to dubunk some earlier quote, it's not a MONO pair, it's STEREO IN STEREO OUT with a common eq. Fine by me!  :D
My bad I didn't write a book about Mono, Dual Mono, Stereo but if you want you can read about it here:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereophonic_sound
and many other audio books.
My point was simply that the implementation was poor. Reading the wants at Mackie's website again they missed the boat by a mile. Implementing a narrow and incorrect stereo linking has left us without a lot of other possible uses for their limited implementation. Not to mention the extra work to get this. Copying a preset to a channel should not have been a hardship. Including the processing of two channels thru a single "DSP" as Mackie calls it (they obviously don't know how to separate eq's from dynamics. More of the one size fits all mentality like phantom power). If your not using shows your not using this mixer or you only have one setup. If you want your true stereo to pass thru this mess best turn of all "DSP" processing otherwise the DL will modify it and you may not like the results. That's just the input side of things. On the output side forget trying to set up a crossover since Mackie has that somewhere near the bottom of their list. Once again dual mono out unless you turn off all "DSP" processing. We used to call this cripple ware in my software days. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot. That's what you exited about?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 12, 2013, 07:59:14 PM
Once again dual mono out unless you turn off all "DSP" processing. We used to call this cripple ware in my software days.

I don't think I understand what you're saying. What's dual mono?

Mackie's linking implementation is identical to industry standard Yamaha's, with the exception that in Yamaha's you can decide to only link some of the parameters, and you can do offsets, nether of which functions I have a use for. When I link channels, I generally want them identical except for panning. Mackie's implementation is exactly what I want in an low cost entry-level mixer. As a bonus, the redundant channel disappears, making more room onscreen. Brilliant.

Global phantom isn't a one size fits all mentality, it's a common cost savings measure.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Harpman on November 12, 2013, 08:00:50 PM
Thar She Blows!

Downloaded & testing right now.

Reverb & Delay channels now show the image for the type chosen where the EQ is for other channels.

Too bad I don't have a show to test it out at for a while, using it for my daily interface w/computer but that's pretty light (hi-pass & compression)

Setting up my "standard" show so all Aux's are pre-DSP, reverb is pre-fader, leaving delay post-fader

Interesting: I removed my iPad and did a bunch of setup for my Standard show, saved, then re-docked. It asked where to get the info, so I chose "iPad" but for some reason it went with the show that was stored in the 1608. Something to look out for...

Found that if you load from your iPad after you dock, you must ALSO "Recall" your snapshot, then the settings will come back.  One extra step, but it works  :P
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 12, 2013, 08:27:36 PM
Nottooloud: That's why I posted the link if you don't understand it you need someone else's help. The AES and IES set standards not Yamaha. Cost savings of a few pennies isn't worth the loss of flexibility. If your happy with the results more power to you.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
Thar She Blows!

Downloaded & testing right now.

Reverb & Delay channels now show the image for the type chosen where the EQ is for other channels.

Too bad I don't have a show to test it out at for a while, using it for my daily interface w/computer but that's pretty light (hi-pass & compression)

Setting up my "standard" show so all Aux's are pre-DSP, reverb is pre-fader, leaving delay post-fader

Interesting: I removed my iPad and did a bunch of setup for my Standard show, saved, then re-docked. It asked where to get the info, so I chose "iPad" but for some reason it went with the show that was stored in the 1608. Something to look out for...

Found that if you load from your iPad after you dock, you must ALSO "Recall" your snapshot, then the settings will come back.  One extra step, but it works  :P

Thar, she doesn't blow THAT bad!
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 08:28:59 PM
That's why I posted the link if you don't understand it you need someone else's help. The AES and IES set standards not Yamaha. Cost savings of a few pennies isn't worth the loss of flexibility. If your happy with the results more power to you.

Perhaps for some, Behringer is the only answer... As for me, ... happy camper!
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 12, 2013, 08:41:03 PM
Nottooloud: That's why I posted the link if you don't understand it you need someone else's help. The AES and IES set standards not Yamaha. Cost savings of a few pennies isn't worth the loss of flexibility. If your happy with the results more power to you.

I used the handy search function in my web browser to examine that linked Wikipedia page for the phrase "dual mono". It was unsuccessful. So I ask again, since I don't understand what you're saying, what do you yourself mean by "dual mono"?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 12, 2013, 08:51:03 PM
I did mention that I have somewhere near now 28 mixers and I do have a choice. Behringer has been quite satisfying in some areas but I do have Yamaha, Ramsa, Mackie, Behringer, ClearOne, Polycom etc. and I don't comment on things I don't have or have used extensively. Last week a PM5D but it's huge and expensive (a rental at the Honolulu Convention Center) that I played with thanks to my neighbor at AMT Systems. We had a failure of a safety circuit at Crown's top of the line amps ( it produced a thump about every 4-6 seconds and had us all puzzled) but like most professionals we made it a non-event including the audience.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 12, 2013, 08:59:57 PM
Nottooloud: That's why I posted the link if you don't understand it you need someone else's help. The AES and IES set standards not Yamaha. Cost savings of a few pennies isn't worth the loss of flexibility. If your happy with the results more power to you.

I used the handy search function in my web browser to examine that linked Wikipedia page for the phrase "dual mono". It was unsuccessful. So I ask again, since I don't understand what you're saying, what do you yourself mean by "dual mono"?
Dual means two (link). Mono means single (source). There is no interaction between the channels. Pan simply adjusts the loudness of the channels relative to each other. There is no "stereo" capability to bleed one channel into the other (width). KISS explanation.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 09:06:36 PM
Dual means two (link). Mono means single (source). There is no interaction between the channels. Pan simply adjusts the loudness of the channels relative to each other. There is no "stereo" capability to bleed one channel into the other (width). KISS explanation.

As long a PAN (on the linked channels) is set at 0 (center), I would expect the two channels to be isolated. By panning I would expect one channel to be "bled" onto the other. Isn't this a valid description of the current operation?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 12, 2013, 09:12:24 PM
@WK154 Fair enough. So your archetypical home hifi is a dual mono? I don't recall hearing anyone call it anything but "a stereo" in the last 50 years, but whatever. Anybody cares about that why?

@Lee, panning away from a channel simply turns that channel down. It doesn't send it to the other output.

This is a remarkably capable and extremely inexpensive entry level mixer. Linked pan does what I expect it to. I think they're doing a great job.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 12, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
@Lee, panning away from a channel simply turns that channel down. It doesn't send it to the other output.

I suppose I will test this on Friday. I have no need to pan the channels I have linked so I don't think I would have noticed that. Also, if it is working as a "home stereo" where common controls (DSP) effect each channel individually but the same way, then this too is exactly as I would have wanted.

In my book, once you need all that individual control over one channel or the other, there is no point in having them linked unless you are only looking to tie the volume controls together. At that point, two fingers does the trick.

It sounds like what WK154 REALLY wants is SUB GROUPING and not Channel Linking.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: bcbeak on November 12, 2013, 09:57:35 PM
First impressions are good. Install was a snap .. came right up without issue. The new quick access panel looks like it will be THE go to screen.
What do y'all think?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Sting on November 12, 2013, 10:00:22 PM
I have not upgraded to 2.0 as yet,  we have a show on Saturday.  More than likely I will go to 2.0...there are too many improvements to delay it.

My question is what is the advantage of running monitors pre DSP vs pre fader other than not having compressors in them?  I am assuming the players will still be able to mix in delay and reverb in their mix running pre DSP?

Also why do guys run their reverb pre and delay post fader?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: musicman7722 on November 13, 2013, 12:02:53 AM
Friends

I have read this entire post twice but I still have one question.  I have downloaded 2 on my iphone and ipad and give it a quick look over.  So will 2 now allow me to create stereo aux outs for iem in such a way that the user may pan different channels partially or entirely to the left or right as in a main mix?

Thank you

Chris
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 13, 2013, 12:13:30 AM
So will 2 now allow me to create stereo aux outs for iem in such a way that the user may pan different channels partially or entirely to the left or right as in a main mix?
You can only pan on "Master Fader", not on "My Fader" :( . So if the performer only has an iPhone or iPod Touch someone with an iPad will have to set the pans for them.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 13, 2013, 12:58:25 AM
The function of the stereo linking is fine for what I need.
You get a hell of a lot for your money as far as I'm concerned.
I think it's amazing to be honest.
I suppose I could always find something to complain about, yeah, it's too big to fit in my pocket. Must get onto the Mackie suggestion site.
I don't expect every feature ever utilised on a US <$800 desk - reality check please!
I don't care who made it, I bought it and it's doing the job for me.
Please - less knit-picking, it's farcical.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: JMc on November 13, 2013, 01:04:45 AM
Despite all the ankle-biting and hand-wringing that seems to go on about Mackie, I am thrilled with this mixer and the capabilities it has for the price.  I've been able to generate amazing quality stereo mix recordings on the fly.  Maybe I'm too easily pleased, but so far, I've been nothing but thrilled.   I do have a question though.  Our PA amp has 1/4" unbalanced inputs.  I want to go from a pair of AUX outs to feed the FOH mix.  Do I need to find cables that go balanced TRS 1/4" coming out of the board to unbalanced tip/sleeve 1/4" to feed the amp?  Or can I just get away with using unbalanced 1/4" connectors on both sides of the cables and not lose any gain or have other issues to contend with?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 13, 2013, 01:40:28 AM
Friends

I have read this entire post twice but I still have one question.  I have downloaded 2 on my iphone and ipad and give it a quick look over.  So will 2 now allow me to create stereo aux outs for iem in such a way that the user may pan different channels partially or entirely to the left or right as in a main mix?

Thank you

Chris
All channels are able to be paned to linked buses (Main L&R, A1&A2, A3&A4, A5&A6). All others pan icons are balance controls see pg. 162 of the new manual. The short answer in MF yes.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 13, 2013, 01:50:32 AM
I do have a question though.  Our PA amp has 1/4" unbalanced inputs.  I want to go from a pair of AUX outs to feed the FOH mix.  Do I need to find cables that go balanced TRS 1/4" coming out of the board to unbalanced tip/sleeve 1/4" to feed the amp?  Or can I just get away with using unbalanced 1/4" connectors on both sides of the cables and not lose any gain or have other issues to contend with?
Trial and error method at worst case you'll need a dual DI box. I ran 50' unbalanced to a powered speaker in a quiet environment, you may not be so lucky. Not using Mackie's power supply on the mixer( see pin one problem).
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 13, 2013, 01:57:01 AM
It sounds like what WK154 REALLY wants is SUB GROUPING and not Channel Linking.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:25:18 PM by LeeSteel »

Actually I want DCA's that part of the group concept Mackie started but left for V3. That's what I already have in my X32.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 13, 2013, 05:07:21 PM
Please - less knit-picking, it's farcical.
Mackie does seem to be committed to "finishing" it - it's our job to let them know what we most want done first :) .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 13, 2013, 05:12:09 PM
It sounds like what WK154 REALLY wants is SUB GROUPING and not Channel Linking.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:25:18 PM by LeeSteel »

Actually I want DCA's that part of the group concept Mackie started but left for V3. That's what I already have in my X32.
I want both - you need groups in order to do matrixes - and center fills, delay stacks, remote-room/recording/broadcast feeds are becoming more common these days even at the lower levels of production :) .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 13, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
Anybody notice if you have multiple ios devices if you can do different view groups from each ipad without causing issues?  Is this something that you can only do from one Master Fader?  (My 'bone player downloaded Master Fader and not My Fader for his ipad.  I wanted a spare Master Fader available as a backup anyway and nothing he's done has caused any problems.)  Prior to the last upgrade, the 'bone player has been using his copy of Master Fader to control his monitor mixes.  Will this cause problems now?  I'm pretty sure that he would like to have his own view because he's mostly concerned with the IEM mix for the horn section. 
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 13, 2013, 05:42:34 PM
Please - less knit-picking, it's farcical.
Mackie does seem to be committed to "finishing" it - it's our job to let them know what we most want done first :) .
I'm all for constructive criticism, especially for product improvement sake RR :)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 13, 2013, 05:48:43 PM
Anybody notice if you have multiple ios devices if you can do different view groups from each ipad without causing issues?  Is this something that you can only do from one Master Fader?  (My 'bone player downloaded Master Fader and not My Fader for his ipad.  I wanted a spare Master Fader available as a backup anyway and nothing he's done has caused any problems.)  Prior to the last upgrade, the 'bone player has been using his copy of Master Fader to control his monitor mixes.  Will this cause problems now?  I'm pretty sure that he would like to have his own view because he's mostly concerned with the IEM mix for the horn section.
I believe you can. You might want to "lock down" what he can and can't do on his iPad.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Greg C. on November 13, 2013, 05:56:04 PM
Our PA amp has 1/4" unbalanced inputs.  I want to go from a pair of AUX outs to feed the FOH mix.  Do I need to find cables that go balanced TRS 1/4" coming out of the board to unbalanced tip/sleeve 1/4" to feed the amp?  Or can I just get away with using unbalanced 1/4" connectors on both sides of the cables and not lose any gain or have other issues to contend with?

What model of PA amp do you have and how far from the mixer is amp going to be?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Greg C. on November 13, 2013, 05:59:21 PM
Trial and error method at worst case you'll need a dual DI box. I ran 50' unbalanced to a powered speaker in a quiet environment, you may not be so lucky. Not using Mackie's power supply on the mixer( see pin one problem).

A DI might not have enough output depending on the amp's input sensitivity, so an iso transformer with the ability to unbalance the secondary might be the call for longer wire runs. Of course I'm sure you'll recommend the Jensen ;)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: CyberHippy on November 13, 2013, 06:27:52 PM
Our PA amp has 1/4" unbalanced inputs.  I want to go from a pair of AUX outs to feed the FOH mix.  Do I need to find cables that go balanced TRS 1/4" coming out of the board to unbalanced tip/sleeve 1/4" to feed the amp?  Or can I just get away with using unbalanced 1/4" connectors on both sides of the cables and not lose any gain or have other issues to contend with?

What model of PA amp do you have and how far from the mixer is amp going to be?

You absolutely want to use all-balanced cables, there have been many reports of people getting noise on Aux-channels when using un-balanced cabling.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 13, 2013, 06:32:41 PM
Best thing to do is get another amp - any amp with only unbalanced inputs isn't a proper PA amp. Used ones start around $150 these days.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 13, 2013, 06:50:38 PM
Best thing to do is get another amp - any amp with only unbalanced inputs isn't a proper PA amp. Used ones start around $150 these days.
+1
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 13, 2013, 07:51:07 PM
It sounds like what WK154 REALLY wants is SUB GROUPING and not Channel Linking.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:25:18 PM by LeeSteel »

Actually I want DCA's that part of the group concept Mackie started but left for V3. That's what I already have in my X32.
I want both - you need groups in order to do matrixes - and center fills, delay stacks, remote-room/recording/broadcast feeds are becoming more common these days even at the lower levels of production :) .
WOW your setting the bar way to high for Mackie. I know were you're going and it starts with X and ends with rack. No point fighting city hall. Time to sell some of your collection just like me.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 13, 2013, 07:58:11 PM
IMO they have to be at least as functional as the analog mixers at this level - the 1604 (which has groups and the "rude solo" which we just lost :( ) and the MixWiz (which has a master FX mute button AND footswitch jack). They both also have per-channel switching of pre/post on some auxes. Dunno why Mackie ever though they didn't have to be at least as good as what they are replacing :facepalm: ?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 13, 2013, 08:10:17 PM
Trial and error method at worst case you'll need a dual DI box. I ran 50' unbalanced to a powered speaker in a quiet environment, you may not be so lucky. Not using Mackie's power supply on the mixer( see pin one problem).

A DI might not have enough output depending on the amp's input sensitivity, so an iso transformer with the ability to unbalance the secondary might be the call for longer wire runs. Of course I'm sure you'll recommend the Jensen ;)
I don't think that a consumer level input would be a problem for a pro level output if anything you may need to cut down the signal (Rolls and others have a solution). Yes I would recommend Jensen but only if he has a solution. On the other hand a pro level amp would be a better solution per RR.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 13, 2013, 08:17:12 PM
IMO they have to be at least as functional as the analog mixers at this level - the 1604 (which has groups and the "rude solo" which we just lost :( ) and the MixWiz (which has a master FX mute button AND footswitch jack). They both also have per-channel switching of pre/post on some auxes. Dunno why Mackie ever though they didn't have to be at least as good as what they are replacing :facepalm: ?
Totally agree and they will have to face their own customers coming off 1604 VLZ's and other analogs once the novelty of the iPad wears off and real audio work has to be done in live venues.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 13, 2013, 10:51:23 PM
I think we need to keep in mind that this is a low end digital mixer.  Mackie needs some positive feedback and I for one will be thanking them for a very good effort that appears to not have any software bugs.  I'm impressed.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 13, 2013, 11:00:35 PM
Nothing is perfect, The DL gives me more than I could have dreamed of a couple of years ago. That doesn't mean I won't be asking for more but (are you listening BenO) it is a bloody good mixer.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 14, 2013, 12:54:53 AM
Dual means two (link). Mono means single (source). There is no interaction between the channels. Pan simply adjusts the loudness of the channels relative to each other. There is no "stereo" capability to bleed one channel into the other (width). KISS explanation.

As long a PAN (on the linked channels) is set at 0 (center), I would expect the two channels to be isolated. By panning I would expect one channel to be "bled" onto the other. Isn't this a valid description of the current operation?

The difference between Dual Mono and Stereo is how they feed into a stereo bus.  A Dual Mono channel will feed the signal from each side into both sides of the stereo bus, creating a mono sound from your stereo bus.  A Stereo channel will feed it's left side signal into left side of the stereo bus, and it's right side signal into the right side of the stereo bus.

Check out the block diagram in the 2.0 manual ... it's pretty clear.   Channel linking is "stereo linking", and Aux linking is "stereo aux linking".

As for panning a stereo channel, I thought the center position has both channels at full volume and panning in either direction attenuates the opposite channel.  Different mfgs may do this differently, but that's the way I've seen the volume curves diagrammed.  (Fyi LCR mains do something similar but with three channels instead of two.)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 14, 2013, 09:14:51 AM
Dual means two (link). Mono means single (source). There is no interaction between the channels. Pan simply adjusts the loudness of the channels relative to each other. There is no "stereo" capability to bleed one channel into the other (width). KISS explanation.

As long a PAN (on the linked channels) is set at 0 (center), I would expect the two channels to be isolated. By panning I would expect one channel to be "bled" onto the other. Isn't this a valid description of the current operation?

The difference between Dual Mono and Stereo is how they feed into a stereo bus.  A Dual Mono channel will feed the signal from each side into both sides of the stereo bus, creating a mono sound from your stereo bus.  A Stereo channel will feed it's left side signal into left side of the stereo bus, and it's right side signal into the right side of the stereo bus.

Check out the block diagram in the 2.0 manual ... it's pretty clear.   Channel linking is "stereo linking", and Aux linking is "stereo aux linking".

As for panning a stereo channel, I thought the center position has both channels at full volume and panning in either direction attenuates the opposite channel.  Different mfgs may do this differently, but that's the way I've seen the volume curves diagrammed.  (Fyi LCR mains do something similar but with three channels instead of two.)

That seems to be how it works  8)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 14, 2013, 08:46:50 PM
Dual means two (link). Mono means single (source). There is no interaction between the channels. Pan simply adjusts the loudness of the channels relative to each other. There is no "stereo" capability to bleed one channel into the other (width). KISS explanation.

As long a PAN (on the linked channels) is set at 0 (center), I would expect the two channels to be isolated. By panning I would expect one channel to be "bled" onto the other. Isn't this a valid description of the current operation?

The difference between Dual Mono and Stereo is how they feed into a stereo bus.  A Dual Mono channel will feed the signal from each side into both sides of the stereo bus, creating a mono sound from your stereo bus.  A Stereo channel will feed it's left side signal into left side of the stereo bus, and it's right side signal into the right side of the stereo bus.

Check out the block diagram in the 2.0 manual ... it's pretty clear.   Channel linking is "stereo linking", and Aux linking is "stereo aux linking".

As for panning a stereo channel, I thought the center position has both channels at full volume and panning in either direction attenuates the opposite channel.  Different mfgs may do this differently, but that's the way I've seen the volume curves diagrammed.  (Fyi LCR mains do something similar but with three channels instead of two.)

That seems to be how it works  8)

OK I guess I created a monster with the "Dual and Mono" definition. I did state that it was the KISS explanation. So much for KISS. Mackie on their diagram calls it true stereo. I don't have the inclination to go into the details here but a good explanation is given here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereophonic_sound
However all three of you missed the real point in that by Mackie choosing to treat both channels with identical DSP processing parameters have removed a lot of flexibility and any possibility of modifying the stereo image with other than loudness control. Yes I do know how to read the diagram and the "linked channels" never "bled" into each other as stated above. We would also have had at least a dual channel DCA. Also the need for pairing adjacent channels as opposed to any two channels is also limiting and there was no need for that other than to maintain their simplicity and one size fits all mentality (KISS). Their choice and there is nothing wrong with that but it will need to be changed when groups or DCA's are implemented. They already have this in mute groups. Too bad they didn't finish the job.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 14, 2013, 08:50:26 PM
I doubt they are done.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 14, 2013, 09:03:29 PM
DCAs and stereo channel linking ... two different things, and both are needed :)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 14, 2013, 09:18:12 PM
DCAs and stereo channel linking ... two different things, and both are needed :)
Stereo channel linking as implemented in the DL is a subset of DCA not different.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 14, 2013, 09:19:14 PM
I would argue that we all want a lot of things that we don't really need.  (3 intimate relationships come to my mind.  Pretty sure that in order to live with my Wife, that can't happen.)  So now that I understand what is being complained about, it might be nice, but it's far from a necessity.  If the hardware will support that, it would be a good suggestion for MF Ver 3.0  and if we're lucky, we'll see that before we feel obligated to move onto a different mixer.  (I can see this lasting at least 5 years for me.) 
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 15, 2013, 01:45:04 PM
DCAs and stereo channel linking ... two different things, and both are needed :)
Stereo channel linking as implemented in the DL is a subset of DCA not different.

I'm sorry I don't understand.

My understanding of DCA is that it's a group volume override/delta control.  DCAs only affect effective fader level of the channels they are governing, nothing else.  If you've seen otherwise, please share.

A stereo channel is nothing more than two separate channels that are tied together as follows:
 * routing to stereo busses is done stereo style instead of mono
 * panning curve is different
 * EQ, dynamics, gain, routings are effectively linked between the two channels, so one control does the same thing to both channels.
 * but a stereo channel still carries two distinct channels of audio, L and R

Are you implying that there are boards out there that do some form of stereo image processing within the stereo channel?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 15, 2013, 03:08:48 PM
All I am getting out of these posts is that a few are looking to have the volume control be the only thing tied together in the pair, beside that, they want individual EQ and DSP.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 15, 2013, 03:42:14 PM
I can see a use for that, but two fingers does that already.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: LeeSteel on November 15, 2013, 04:10:19 PM
I can see a use for that, but two fingers does that already.

Exactly what I said.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 15, 2013, 04:27:26 PM
I can see a use for that, but two fingers does that already.
Or a DCA. I don't see why we'd need the stereo linking to be different (and more confusing to most) if DCA's are coming - and if not there's always the competition. IMO stereo inputs are mostly for the DJ crowd and to accommodate the stereo FX in keyboards. I'm far more concerned about the lack of width control than having separate EQ and dynamics for the left and right inputs. And the lack of pan controls in My Fader for doing stereo IEM's.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 15, 2013, 04:53:16 PM
All I am getting out of these posts is that a few are looking to have the volume control be the only thing tied together in the pair, beside that, they want individual EQ and DSP.

From what I understand that is called "fader groups" ... at least that's what Yamaha calls it.   It is not partial to adjacent channels ... you can tie together fader movements of two or more channels together regardless of their proximity to each other, and when you move one, the rest move proportionally.

The problem with fader groups vs DCAs is that with fader groups, if you move one fader in the group you move them all.  Then you have to use an override to adjust just that one fader in the group leaving the others as-is.   You see where this is going ... starts to get complex ... therefore Fader Group Masters (Yamaha's 01v96) and DCAs which allow you to freely adjust any fader in the group, and also provide a group level adjustment.

When I requested the feature from Mackie I termed it "Channel Linking" and "Channel grouping" ... again two different things.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 15, 2013, 08:37:26 PM
I see that the stereo debate and semantics are alive and well. Let's take a practical example that Timmy displayed before he left on pg 3 of this thread. Look at Pic 1 channel 1 and 2 which Eq would you pick to process the two channels (drums) in stereo? The answer is neither and that's my point. Male and Female singers on stereo channel same problem. This limits the use of what can be passes thru as stereo. So it's use as implemented is only for already spatially adjusted signals (outside the mixer) to pass thru the mixer and loudness control is used for shifting the image. Very limiting and yes stereo linking is a subset of DCA since Mackie's DSP processing of the signal includes EQ settings in the DL and both channels are set to equal processing settings. Best to just shut off the DSP.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 15, 2013, 09:59:00 PM
wk154, based on your description, which is the need for a simple pair channel grouping, it would make sense that mackie could enhance the channel linking function to allow you to link "fader only" vs "stereo".   

Visually it could do what I do on manual boards -- put a piece of console tape across both faders to lock them together for one-finger operation. 

On the iPad it would appear similarly, as two channels, but with a fat fader knob spanning both channels or a bar connecting the two faders.

Would you go for that?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 15, 2013, 11:05:20 PM
Mackie's DSP processing of the signal includes EQ settings in the DL and both channels are set to equal processing settings. Best to just shut off the DSP.

Oddly enough, what they've done is exactly what I want. Pretty sure I'm not the only one. Stereo channels are for a pair of related signals, typically left and right, which I want to treat identically. I expect rather more people want to plug in their iPod or a stereo keyboard and deal with it with one fader than want to marry a male and female vocal as a unit. I can't imagine why I'd want those two faders tied together.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 15, 2013, 11:43:25 PM
wk154, based on your description, which is the need for a simple pair channel grouping, it would make sense that mackie could enhance the channel linking function to allow you to link "fader only" vs "stereo".   

Visually it could do what I do on manual boards -- put a piece of console tape across both faders to lock them together for one-finger operation. 

On the iPad it would appear similarly, as two channels, but with a fat fader knob spanning both channels or a bar connecting the two faders.

Would you go for that?
To be clear I need not go back in time to analog when discussing digital. You seem to be enthralled with the word "stereo" which has far reaching implications hence my link to the definition above. It's roots are analog. Please reread today's definition. Allowing the ability to create artificial stereo (most of today's recorded stereo) in the mixer which would have enhanced the DL, is not yet to be. The benefit of reducing the amount of faders especially on the poor UI design of the DL for live work is significant (no movement to get to the faders). DCA or groups would have been even better. Let not loose sight of the real purpose behind requested changes and that is to increase flexibility (broaden the applications for the DL not shrink them and reduce the effort to do live shows). I have no need to go for compromises since I have lots of choices X32 comes to mind. In my book setup takes a backseat to live control at a venue.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 16, 2013, 12:30:17 AM
Mackie's DSP processing of the signal includes EQ settings in the DL and both channels are set to equal processing settings. Best to just shut off the DSP.

Oddly enough, what they've done is exactly what I want. Pretty sure I'm not the only one. Stereo channels are for a pair of related signals, typically left and right, which I want to treat identically. I expect rather more people want to plug in their iPod or a stereo keyboard and deal with it with one fader than want to marry a male and female vocal as a unit. I can't imagine why I'd want those two faders tied together.
That's simple you don't do what I do. How about two soloists and a choir or instruments. Don't forget in DCA that I would still have individual control of each channel for Vox but for a quick balance adjust for background that would be ideal. Male and female voices typically are eq'd differently and may have different mics. To be sure we all have different techniques for mixing unless you propose that your way is the only way. If Mackie would get their act together on the iPod/iPad for background music we'd all be ahead. For now it's broken.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 16, 2013, 12:48:28 AM
As soon as Mackie comes up with a cool name for DCAs that sounds at least as good as Yamaha's "Fader Group Master", I'm sure they'll implement it ;)   It's been on the wish list since the beginning, hasn't it?  And it's largely a client side implementation.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 16, 2013, 01:03:34 AM
How about two soloists and a choir or instruments.

One of my regular clients is 5 soloists, a 20 voice choir with 6 overhead mics, and a 6 piece band. There's nothing there I would want linked to anything else.

Quote
Male and female voices typically are eq'd differently and may have different mics.

Of course. And different levels, and different dynamics, and different points in different songs that would need to be ridden. That's why they're on different channels. Why would I want them linked?

If the DL1608 is so far from meeting your needs, why ever are you here?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 16, 2013, 01:45:10 AM
How about two soloists and a choir or instruments.

One of my regular clients is 5 soloists, a 20 voice choir with 6 overhead mics, and a 6 piece band. There's nothing there I would want linked to anything else.

Quote
Male and female voices typically are eq'd differently and may have different mics.

Of course. And different levels, and different dynamics, and different points in different songs that would need to be ridden. That's why they're on different channels. Why would I want them linked?

If the DL1608 is so far from meeting your needs, why ever are you here?
Well that explains a lot at least to me. As to why I'm here I have a DL and it will soon be under someones tree. That doesn't preclude me from contributing and not as a fan-boy.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 16, 2013, 07:02:51 AM
Wk mine won't make it to the tree. It's going to be gone before Xmas. I am just waiting for the right moment to order my rack. Although I do like some of the improvements with the new software. There are just to many things I cannot live with and without. Of course this is all just personal needs. Last band I did sound for I put the dl right by the drummer under one of his cybal stands. It was a perfect location for it. But I could not stand setting the gain levels right next to the drums. The programmable gains in the x32 rack are alone enough for me to move on. The other big one to me is the ability to create a secondary monitor mixer using input assigns. Love that idea. And I also want to be able to use a computer with my system and do full multitrack recordings. There are just way too many extra bonuses to move on. I am sure mackie will be working hard on its next edition of a dl. To me I would love to see a dl2408 that is nothing more than a stage box with a router connection. Imagine just putting it on the floor, plugging in cables (in and out) and power, and a router, then walking away to set everything up. That would be sweet. And being able to link multiples would be even cooler. This is to me what I will be doing with the rack. I am going to have it in a case, throw it on a stage, plug everything in and walk away. But I would still love to see something that is simply a durable stage box containing an full digital mixer. No frills on the outside. Just a solid piece of ins and outs.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 16, 2013, 10:27:19 AM
Wk mine won't make it to the tree. It's going to be gone before Xmas. I am just waiting for the right moment to order my rack. Although I do like some of the improvements with the new software. There are just to many things I cannot live with and without. Of course this is all just personal needs. Last band I did sound for I put the dl right by the drummer under one of his cybal stands. It was a perfect location for it. But I could not stand setting the gain levels right next to the drums. The programmable gains in the x32 rack are alone enough for me to move on. The other big one to me is the ability to create a secondary monitor mixer using input assigns. Love that idea. And I also want to be able to use a computer with my system and do full multitrack recordings. There are just way too many extra bonuses to move on. I am sure mackie will be working hard on its next edition of a dl. To me I would love to see a dl2408 that is nothing more than a stage box with a router connection. Imagine just putting it on the floor, plugging in cables (in and out) and power, and a router, then walking away to set everything up. That would be sweet. And being able to link multiples would be even cooler. This is to me what I will be doing with the rack. I am going to have it in a case, throw it on a stage, plug everything in and walk away. But I would still love to see something that is simply a durable stage box containing an full digital mixer. No frills on the outside. Just a solid piece of ins and outs.
My friend has been using one of these with a laptop for a few years now - very robust :)
http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?catId=iLiveSeries&ProductId=iDR32&SubCatId=MixRacks
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 16, 2013, 03:08:39 PM
I know this isn't a very expensive mixer as mixers go, but you guys are treating it like a throw away.  Don't like it?  Don't keep it.  Don't try to get Mackie to configure it for the needs you want and then will toss away.  New versions of MF need to meet the needs of people who want to use the mixer.  It looks like DCA is only wanted by someone who doesn't plan to have this mixer next year.  Now sub groups?  I could go for those.  Got used to them on the CFX-12 mixer board.  (Where you can only send the signal onto the main outs by going through the subgroup.  Most mixers don't force you there.)  I also learned how to live without them on the MixWiz.  (Think they work best when used in like groups.  Horns, drums, vocals......)   And in my house, $1000 isn't money you just toss away on a toy.  I like the DL.  No mixer fills every need, but most do what you can live with. 
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 16, 2013, 03:50:27 PM
Hey, I still want DCAs ... and it's on the Mackie Enhancement request vote list, just not at the top.

IMHO, Subgroups are useful over DCAs only when you need to apply a common treatment to the signal that cannot be done through channel EQ and Dynamics linking.  Otherwise DCAs are the way to go because you have full routing and dynamic independence of each channel and still volume control in groups.   Am I wrong on this?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 16, 2013, 04:12:58 PM
I've never lived with DCAs.  (Also never flown a plane, skydived, been attacked by a shark.....)  Now that I understand what one is, I can't think of anyplace where I need one.   Could just be my personal lack of experience with them.  (Probably)  OK, it might be nice to use with my two keyboards, but I did purchase two identical expression pedals and modified one so they had the same level of affect upon both keyboards when I place my foot right in the middle of the pedals.  So I don't even need it there.  (The expression pedals are much better in this case anyway.  Leaves my hands free to do other things.) 
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 16, 2013, 04:24:08 PM
Most of the mixers I use have DCAs available. They're useful for massive shows. On a 16 channel mixer? Not so much.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 16, 2013, 04:32:37 PM
AFAIK the only operational differences between DCAs and groups are:
Adjusting the group fader doesn't change the volume of a channel in all post-fader auxes, the main out and groups like a DCA does.
You can normally process a group as a group (like group compression), not so with DCAs.
You need groups to have matrixes.

Don't think I've ever seen a board that had VCAs/DCAs that didn't also have groups.

BTW with V2.0 I now run my reverb pre-fader so that I can put reverb on things that aren't in the main mix. Last night I was running 110dB+ and I still only had the kick in the mains - I was able to put reverb on the overhead without having it in the mains 8) . With groups I'd normally just deselect that channel from the L&R and stay post-fader but this works OK for now. However I would like to keep all the channel's reverb send post-fader except for ones I don't need in the mains, hopefully Mackie will give us individual control over this soon like the X32 and Phonic mixers have - or at least groups.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 16, 2013, 04:41:25 PM
Most of the mixers I use have DCAs available. They're useful for massive shows. On a 16 channel mixer? Not so much.
That's my feeling as well - I'd much rather see groups first, the 1604 has two stereo groups. As I said it is kinda silly to have a "new, improved digital mixer" that lacks features that are on your "industry standard" analog mixer. But there are other things I'd much rather see them work on first ("high" control on channels switchable to a LPF or a new dedicated LPF on each, GEQ's on outputs switchable to parametrics, per-channel pre/post aux taps, etc).
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 16, 2013, 04:51:35 PM
Most of the mixers I use have DCAs available. They're useful for massive shows. On a 16 channel mixer? Not so much.
That's my feeling as well - I'd much rather see groups first, the 1604 has two stereo groups. As I said it is kinda silly to have a "new, improved digital mixer" that lacks features that are on your "industry standard" analog mixer. But there are other things I'd much rather see them work on first ("high" control on channels switchable to a LPF or a new dedicated LPF on each, GEQ's on outputs switchable to parametrics, per-channel pre/post aux taps, etc).

Agreed on all counts.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Greg C. on November 16, 2013, 05:52:42 PM
Now that I understand what one is, I can't think of anyplace where I need one.   Could just be my personal lack of experience with them.

While this is probably not applicable or desired by most of the folks on this board, you might find it interesting anyway. I make use of this VCA (DCA) technique for some bands along with the compression scheme and it's pretty cool. Groups are required too. Not for everyone but cool nonetheless.

Dave Rat's mixing technique (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMMmR1u0CFk)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 16, 2013, 08:27:41 PM
Now that I understand what one is, I can't think of anyplace where I need one.   Could just be my personal lack of experience with them.

While this is probably not applicable or desired by most of the folks on this board, you might find it interesting anyway. I make use of this VCA (DCA) technique for some bands along with the compression scheme and it's pretty cool. Groups are required too. Not for everyone but cool nonetheless.

Dave Rat's mixing technique (YouTube) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMMmR1u0CFk)
I don't see why it's not applicable even to smaller groups not really much more than some bar groups. It does however require a good ear and a sense of balance for your audience. A couple of drinks and hormones cranking at 110dB and anything will sound good.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 16, 2013, 10:31:29 PM
Robbocurry:
My friend has been using one of these with a laptop for a few years now - very robust :)
http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?catId=iLiveSeries&ProductId=iDR32&SubCatId=MixRacks
 I get to play with one of these about twice a year at the Liberty Theater in the heart of the Forest Lawn Cemetery
 I say hi to Micheal as I go in. Of course they have a iT112 control surface so I never needed a laptop or iPad. But the $6999 for this will get you 3  X32's and I just mean the 32 channel stage box.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 16, 2013, 11:03:11 PM
Fyi some bathroom reading for those of you not familiar with DCA/VCA --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-gain_amplifier

VCA stands for Voltage Controlled Amplifier, basically the ability to remotely affect the gain of an amp by passing it a control signal of varying voltage.  This control signal is separate from the audio signal that the amp inputs and outputs.  In the case of sound consoles, this voltages affects the amp gain in an incremental manner, i.e. a delta from the gain already set locally on the amp.   Since the control voltage is just a wire carrying a voltage, you can attach it to many audio amps simultaneously. 

Therefore, a VCA provides a gain/volume delta override to the channels it is assigned to.  It does not touch the audio signals on those channels ... only the channel amplifier gain.

Groups can be used like VCAs if you planned to route all channels to the same busses.    But a group is a mix bus -- by definition it is a mixture of signals from the channels which are assigned to it.   The Group bus volume control adjusts the volume of the bus after the input channel signals are mixed together, and CANNOT affect the individual channel volume levels.

The term DCA was created to correspond to the term VCA for digital consoles -- Digitally Controlled Amplifier -- since functionally it provides the same behavior.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 17, 2013, 12:33:04 AM
Jerry: Peace. I never understood Mackie's DL806 instead of a rack version 2U of the DL1608. The software still needs a lot but the capability is there. I've had my X32 for a month now and little time to explore it. I couldn't pass up the deal including cases for $3400 (X32+S16+cases and cable Tye). Just need the rack for roadie work. That gives me 32 channels on the road if need be. The full X32 is for my studio only (I like lights and faders what can I say). My XDM for 8 mics or less all wireless still gets plenty of road use. I'm also getting tired of learning new equipment and their idiosyncrasy's so the X32 family will fit the bill for the foreseeable future. It'll be awhile before I will clamor for more features (2 months). Just kidding. The new speakers that will run off Ultranet may be my next purchase if they can be wireless.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 17, 2013, 01:21:16 AM
Fyi some bathroom reading for those of you not familiar with DCA/VCA --

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-gain_amplifier

VCA stands for Voltage Controlled Amplifier, basically the ability to remotely affect the gain of an amp by passing it a control signal of varying voltage.  This control signal is separate from the audio signal that the amp inputs and outputs.  In the case of sound consoles, this voltages affects the amp gain in an incremental manner, i.e. a delta from the gain already set locally on the amp.   Since the control voltage is just a wire carrying a voltage, you can attach it to many audio amps simultaneously. 

Therefore, a VCA provides a gain/volume delta override to the channels it is assigned to.  It does not touch the audio signals on those channels ... only the channel amplifier gain.

Groups can be used like VCAs if you planned to route all channels to the same busses.    But a group is a mix bus -- by definition it is a mixture of signals from the channels which are assigned to it.   The Group bus volume control adjusts the volume of the bus after the input channel signals are mixed together, and CANNOT affect the individual channel volume levels.

The term DCA was created to correspond to the term VCA for digital consoles -- Digitally Controlled Amplifier -- since functionally it provides the same behavior.
Unfortunately in the DL with no amplifier control except manual (Pots) you will note that the only variation of level is after the A/D converters. So it's not the same as VCA's in the analog world or DCA in the digital world if there was control over the amplifier such as in the X32 and other digital consoles that have no external preamp adjustments. For one it cannot affect the S/N ratio it is what it is when you set the pots on the DL. A minor point I grant you but non the less a difference. Not all DCA's are created equal.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 17, 2013, 01:40:04 AM
I know this isn't a very expensive mixer as mixers go, but you guys are treating it like a throw away.  Don't like it?  Don't keep it.  Don't try to get Mackie to configure it for the needs you want and then will toss away.  New versions of MF need to meet the needs of people who want to use the mixer.  It looks like DCA is only wanted by someone who doesn't plan to have this mixer next year.  Now sub groups?  I could go for those.  Got used to them on the CFX-12 mixer board.  (Where you can only send the signal onto the main outs by going through the subgroup.  Most mixers don't force you there.)  I also learned how to live without them on the MixWiz.  (Think they work best when used in like groups.  Horns, drums, vocals......)   And in my house, $1000 isn't money you just toss away on a toy.  I like the DL.  No mixer fills every need, but most do what you can live with.
Very nicely said :)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 17, 2013, 01:55:39 AM
Robbocurry:
My friend has been using one of these with a laptop for a few years now - very robust :)
http://www.allen-heath.com/UK/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?catId=iLiveSeries&ProductId=iDR32&SubCatId=MixRacks
 I get to play with one of these about twice a year at the Liberty Theater in the heart of the Forest Lawn Cemetery
 I say hi to Micheal as I go in. Of course they have a iT112 control surface so I never needed a laptop or iPad. But the $6999 for this will get you 3  X32's and I just mean the 32 channel stage box.
It's a big lump of a thing too, they're a bit more affordable over this side of the pond £3500 ($5250) - the DL is still selling for £950 ($1500) over here. The x32 rack is in stock and available for £1300 ($1950)   
What price for quality, eh? Btw, it's a lot more than I would need or could justify at present. I'll have to make do with a QU-16 when it's my turn :)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 17, 2013, 02:22:01 AM
It's a big lump of a thing too, they're a bit more affordable over this side of the pond £3500 ($5250) - the DL is still selling for £950 ($1500) over here. The x32 rack is in stock and available for £1300 ($1950)   
What price for quality, eh? Btw, it's a lot more than I would need or could justify at present. I'll have to make do with a QU-16 when it's my turn :)

Looks like they did a nice job on the QU-16. Most of my gigs I spec the gear and it just shows up. Under those my Yamaha LS9 has handled it all for a while. More and more, though, I'm bringing out this little tiny Mackie. I love the fact that when I fly, the Mackie can come along, not in baggage, not even in my carryon, but in a briefcase as the personal that you get in addition to the carryon. Ridiculous. It's a fun time to be in a tech field.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 17, 2013, 02:23:37 AM
Shipping and tax is a real killer. The Rack is $1499 and the DL is $999 that about $500 difference yet the iT32 stage box is $1750 cheaper? Import/Export anyone? The lump is to keep the tail from wagging the dog.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 17, 2013, 02:40:02 AM
Shipping and tax is a real killer. The Rack is $1499 and the DL is $999 that about $500 difference yet the iT32 stage box is $1750 cheaper? Import/Export anyone? The lump is to keep the tail from wagging the dog.

Bring a bigger suitcase on your next trip to the UK ;)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on November 17, 2013, 02:44:15 AM
It's a big lump of a thing too, they're a bit more affordable over this side of the pond £3500 ($5250) - the DL is still selling for £950 ($1500) over here. The x32 rack is in stock and available for £1300 ($1950)   
What price for quality, eh? Btw, it's a lot more than I would need or could justify at present. I'll have to make do with a QU-16 when it's my turn :)

Looks like they did a nice job on the QU-16. Most of my gigs I spec the gear and it just shows up. Under those my Yamaha LS9 has handled it all for a while. More and more, though, I'm bringing out this little tiny Mackie. I love the fact that when I fly, the Mackie can come along, not in baggage, not even in my carryon, but in a briefcase as the personal that you get in addition to the carryon. Ridiculous. It's a fun time to be in a tech field.
It's amazing for the size. Like I muted before, imagine the 8 channel DL had been made for the iPad mini. That would be some upgrade from an A&H Zed 10FX used for our tiny pub gigs ;D
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: ChiroVette on November 17, 2013, 03:38:53 AM
Wow, I am really impressed with this update and all the incredible features Mackie brought to the table.

Regarding the groups, I was looking all over the place for fader control of each group's volume, say for raising/lowering all the drums at once or all the vocals. But it looks like this is not part of the groups and from what I am seeing, it seems like this is really a feature isolated to muting groups? Is this true? Not complaining, just asking. Would love to have a screen within the special access screen with four faders, one for each group.

Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 17, 2013, 04:17:04 AM
No groups at this time.  It's on my Wish list for MF Ver 3.0   Still thanks to Mackie for a lot of requested features and not screwing up the ipad's stability.  Wish all software upgrades were this good.  (Written while my ipad was updating to ios 7.0.4  Hope that's stable too but I don't have any gigs for a few weeks.)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: ChiroVette on November 17, 2013, 04:26:03 AM
No groups at this time.  It's on my Wish list for MF Ver 3.0   Still thanks to Mackie for a lot of requested features and not screwing up the ipad's stability.  Wish all software upgrades were this good.  (Written while my ipad was updating to ios 7.0.4  Hope that's stable too but I don't have any gigs for a few weeks.)

Oh yeah, no doubt. That's why I wanted to make it clear I wasn't complaining, because it really is an awesome update. Would love actual groups with fader control eventually, if they are doable, of course. But Mackie really listened to a lot of their customers with this huge update.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Fluddman on November 18, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
I did two shows on the weekend with My Fader V2.0 and I just love the update particularly the pre dsp aux sends and the hide and mute groups.

Prior to this and despite being real careful with compression on vocals, I was getting occasional squeals in the foldbacks - but now, beautiful!

Well done Mackie!
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 18, 2013, 10:06:29 AM
How do you get the vocals to sound good in the FB given that you have no eq available if you go pre dsp?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: ijpengelly on November 18, 2013, 11:06:42 AM
I did my first show with V2 on saturday and the view and mute groups, combined with the channel linking were a bonus. The latter was to run an MP3 input. I was slightly frustrated with the quick panel pushing the screen over though and found if I was on the effects page having to hide the quick access panel, then show it again to get to the "return to mixer" button. Overall it was stable and I had a good gig.

Haven't tried pre-EQ for the foldback yet, not really had time to experiment. I guess in answer to your queston Sam, you could use the Aux EQ, though this isn't ideal if you have a mix of channels in your foldback.

In the whole debate about DCA, etc. I think being able to link channels (more than two) without having common DSP processing would be great, especially for drums where I typically run 5-8mics and it would be nice to be turn the whole kit up and down, but process each channel individually. Essentially how I used to run groups on my Mackie 24.4 that I had before this.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 18, 2013, 11:49:16 AM
I don't know how useful the pre-DSP aux settings are just yet, nice to be able to compress the vocals in the FOH without having to on the monitors but if the mic in question needs any eq you're stuffed :eek: My singer is very particular about his vocal sound and if I can't get it right in his monitor he isn't a happy bunny  :(
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: ChiroVette on November 18, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
I don't know how useful the pre-DSP aux settings are just yet, nice to be able to compress the vocals in the FOH without having to on the monitors but if the mic in question needs any eq you're stuffed :eek: My singer is very particular about his vocal sound and if I can't get it right in his monitor he isn't a happy bunny  :(

Yeah I agree. I think its a very useful feature for most sound engineers, because "effects in the monitors" is something that a lot of sound men frown on to begin with. But I would probably never use a pre-DSP aux send in my band because all the singers in my band want reverb/delay into the monitors. Also, I find that I use very light compression on the vocals and my band's stage volume is not out of control, so what little compression gets sent to the monitor wedges in a post DSP Aux Send isn't causing huge problems.

I played a show this weekend and I wanted to get one of the singer's wedges a lot louder. It is an old JBL MR805 wedge (That's an MR from the '90's NOT even an MRX lol) and I feed it with a Crown Powerbase 2 (also very old, from the '90's). Anyway, because of the small size of the venue, the mic positions (three singer's mic's all feeding back into that monitor in particular) it was hard to get any kind of gain before feedback. So during the break I just hunkered down and rang out the monitor, getting rid of a bunch of frequencies with the DL1608's Graphic EQ for that aux send.

The result was that, while I carved the shit out of the signal going into that monitor, I was able to blast that monitor really loud for him. Because I really over-killed the "ringing out," that would not have been a good FOH signal, but it worked for him, particularly for his vocals. This was a rarity, by the way. I usually get plenty of power to the monitors without FB, but I think the room was just very lively.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 18, 2013, 02:28:56 PM
I'm still using post-EQ myself. I only use the dynamics to do peak limiting on the vocals anyways so that doesn't interfere with the monitors. However I'd prefer post-EQ pre-comp and per-channel selection of the tap points like you can do on the X32 and most other decent digital mixers.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WhatsThatSound on November 18, 2013, 03:48:22 PM
First dive into the 2.0 pool over the weekend and only noticed 2 issue's, the main one was I lost the ability to type in values for delay ms and resynching from my djay program to the DL was noticeably slower, there is a quite the lag before the splash screen pops up and then down out of the way.
I am a bit pout off by the fact that even though they are easier to get to the delay/reverb mute on new access should be just one button, I wanted a quick way to mute effects between songs, who leaves one or the other on all the time. The mute and group assigns to setup is a bit confusing.
Overall, nice update...
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 18, 2013, 06:10:42 PM
I am a bit pout off by the fact that even though they are easier to get to the delay/reverb mute on new access should be just one button, I wanted a quick way to mute effects between songs, who leaves one or the other on all the time.
Yah, they didn't get that quite right - guess they've never taken a close look at a MixWiz :( . OTOH it's better than it was, half way there ;) . I am unhappy that they took our "rude solo" indicator/button away, I had hoped to see the master FX mute button above or below it :( .
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: stevegarris on November 18, 2013, 07:25:11 PM
First dive into the 2.0 pool over the weekend and only noticed 2 issue's, the main one was I lost the ability to type in values for delay ms and resynching from my djay program to the DL was noticeably slower, there is a quite the lag before the splash screen pops up and then down out of the way.
I am a bit pout off by the fact that even though they are easier to get to the delay/reverb mute on new access should be just one button, I wanted a quick way to mute effects between songs, who leaves one or the other on all the time. The mute and group assigns to setup is a bit confusing.
Overall, nice update...

I found you can make a "mute group" that mutes both reverb and delay with one button push.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: PeterKorg on November 18, 2013, 07:31:12 PM
First show on version 2 coming upon Saturday, then we have some big gigs coming up thro December, hope allis as good, already updated the DL took all of 3 minutes
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: stevegarris on November 18, 2013, 08:32:47 PM
I had my first show with 2.0 this past Saturday. All went well and the upgrade was no problem.

What I liked:
Quicker access to the comps, effects and EQ's.
Hiding channels not being used.
Can now mute a channel on the mains but leave the monitor active (disable LR Mute).

What I didn't like:
Quick access panel hides channel one, and "return to mixer button" - Mackie needs to fix this!
It seems to sinc a littler slower, as others have said.

I was surprised that I didn't really use the quick access panel that much. I also did not have live monitors (band now using in-ears).
It was one of our best shows yet and the sound was awesome!
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Fluddman on November 18, 2013, 09:37:15 PM
How do you get the vocals to sound good in the FB given that you have no eq available if you go pre dsp?

I use the GEQs on each aux send to eq the vocals - I usually run a seperate aux send per vocalist. This is pretty much how I did it before digital mixers came along - of course the advantage now is I don't need a rack full of GEQs.

I would be happy with post EQ pre compressor aux sends. Its the compressor I don't like in the foldback.

Cheers
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 18, 2013, 10:10:07 PM
How do you get the vocals to sound good in the FB given that you have no eq available if you go pre dsp?

I use the GEQs on each aux send to eq the vocals - I usually run a seperate aux send per vocalist. This is pretty much how I did it before digital mixers came along - of course the advantage now is I don't need a rack full of GEQs.

I would be happy with post EQ pre compressor aux sends. Its the compressor I don't like in the foldback.

Cheers

Understood, and that'll work fine if you don't need anything else in the monitor but most people want more than just their vocal in the monitor so it's always going to be a compromise.

I have to say that's a small criticism of a great little mixer though. Something for MF V3 BenO?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: sam.spoons on November 18, 2013, 10:11:13 PM
First dive into the 2.0 pool over the weekend and only noticed 2 issue's, the main one was I lost the ability to type in values for delay ms and resynching from my djay program to the DL was noticeably slower, there is a quite the lag before the splash screen pops up and then down out of the way.
I am a bit pout off by the fact that even though they are easier to get to the delay/reverb mute on new access should be just one button, I wanted a quick way to mute effects between songs, who leaves one or the other on all the time. The mute and group assigns to setup is a bit confusing.
Overall, nice update...

I found you can make a "mute group" that mutes both reverb and delay with one button push.

Genius  :lol:
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 19, 2013, 03:31:30 AM
I found you can make a "mute group" that mutes both reverb and delay with one button push.
I set that up also - but found it of little use as you have to go to the QAP to hit a mute group button and the Reverb and Delay mutes are right there on the top of the QAP anyways.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 19, 2013, 03:36:42 AM
I found you can make a "mute group" that mutes both reverb and delay with one button push.
I set that up also - but found it of little use as you have to go to the QAP to hit a mute group button and the Reverb and Delay mutes are right there on the top of the QAP anyways.

This is where non-stereo adjacent channel linking might be nice ... link "fader/mute only" vs "stereo"
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 19, 2013, 03:44:28 AM
This is where non-stereo adjacent channel linking might be nice ... link "fader/mute only" vs "stereo"
That wouldn't work for me - I independently adjust the reverb and delay faders per-song and sometimes only use one or the other on a particular song so also need the independent mutes.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 19, 2013, 03:21:47 PM
Everybody's got different applications. I use the delay for balcony speakers, or speakers at the rear of a long room.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 19, 2013, 03:52:52 PM
I hadn't looked closely to the delay.  It's a single delay without repeat?  That's useful for time delayed speaker setups.  Did that in Denver's Civic Center Park one year for a rally using a Mackie CFX-12 mixer.  Worked like a charm for the narrow and long group that was avoiding standing on the grass.  (There was major construction at the amphitheater where this would normally have occurred.)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: RoadRanger on November 19, 2013, 03:54:45 PM
I hadn't looked closely to the delay.  It's a single delay without repeat?
It can be - it has settings you can change.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: nottooloud on November 19, 2013, 04:07:20 PM
The routing for this costs you an aux and the use of the delay as an effect, but it's really handy.

Send everything at unity, post fader, to the delay. Set the delay to 0 regen and whatever delay time you want. Send only the delay, pre fader, to an unused aux. That aux output feeds the back of the room.

My default aux setup is 1-4 mons, 5 delay, and 6 subs.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 19, 2013, 05:07:56 PM
Thanks for setting suggestions.  Losing an Aux under that situation isn't a problem.  I can't see myself needing a delayed sound run while needing all my Auxs. 
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 19, 2013, 05:32:21 PM
And it looks like if you use a stereo Aux you can have a full stereo backfill.  Life is getting better :)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on November 19, 2013, 05:36:15 PM
Did my first stereo Aux for a secondary PA setup in the backline.  (Low volume situation.) Worked quite well. 
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: stevegarris on November 19, 2013, 06:44:30 PM
I found you can make a "mute group" that mutes both reverb and delay with one button push.
I set that up also - but found it of little use as you have to go to the QAP to hit a mute group button and the Reverb and Delay mutes are right there on the top of the QAP anyways.

Agreed. I didn't use it, because you can't just leave the Quick Access panel up at all times. I simply pulled the return faders down.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 20, 2013, 12:56:35 AM
Just a reminder that Mackie tried to sweep the multichannel issue under the rug. Here's a quote from one of the posters and there are many more:
Beno, channel grouping was not implemented in 2.0 ... and now we've lost 1800 votes on this feature. Can you put this back onto the not implemented list, remove the reference to stereo pairs, so we can have it back at the top of the list?
And of course multichannel recording is next in line. JL don't even go there!!! Happy??
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 20, 2013, 01:09:27 AM
You mean JL don't go there. What amazes me is that people keep voting up the multitrack recording feature when it will NEVER happen with the current hardware. Beno even says that in one of the comments. Hopefully Mackie is smart enought to add it into the next version of the DL. Just so you know wk that was one of my many user suggestions. Including all the ones at the top.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 20, 2013, 03:04:43 AM
Just so you know wk that was one of my many user suggestions. Including all the ones at the top.
What you meant was that you might have voted for them. I don't see your name on any of the top suggestions.  ;D  Don't feel bad all of mine fell on deaf ears.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jerrylee on November 20, 2013, 04:42:36 AM
You don't see jerry lee. But you do see other names I posted under there at uservoice. You can make as many names there as you want. And you can also vote as many times as you want.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on November 20, 2013, 05:11:15 AM
Really!!! :lol:
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Fluddman on November 20, 2013, 06:38:52 AM
Vote early, vote often!  ;)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on November 20, 2013, 01:42:16 PM
Oh so close!

I thought I could reduce my fader bank to one screen on my high school jazz band snapshot, by pairing up the solo mics for sax, trombone and trumpet (I have two of each).  Then I realized I can't do stereo linking ... I need dual mono, or fader linking.

Bummer.

I was still able to remove some width by creating one stereo pair and removing a few other channels from view, but it looks like I'll need that next increment of fader UI functionality to get what I want for this show.
Title: First Gig with 2.0
Post by: bcbeak on November 27, 2013, 07:34:40 PM
Mute Groups, sub-groups  and quick access screen are major improvements that helped us manage things more easily
(we run our own mix from the stage, and run iPad playlists during breaks).

I didn't see that one coming .. but a very nice upgrade.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Jkowtko on December 05, 2013, 06:58:07 PM
First performance last night ... the stereo channel and stereo auxes work nicely, and the view groups are definitely helpful :)

... However I could still use different fader knobs to better distinguish the aux layers from LR layer.

I got stung with this one again last night.   Doing recording and live at the same time, adjusted house volume (aux 1/2) and then forgot to move back to the LR layer (recording) to cross-fade from the emcee mic to the stereo recording mic.  Instead I cross-faded  the aux1/2 outs and ended up recording the first 30 seconds of the song from the emcee mic in mono.

The colors just don't cut it ... when the house is dark and you are concentrating on what's happening on stage, purple vs green bands just aren't noticeable in light of all of the color already on the screen.  My eyes were glued to either the stage or the fader knobs.  If the fader knobs looked noticeably different I would have noticed I was on the wrong layer immediately.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: Wynnd on December 05, 2013, 07:01:51 PM
I've thought that too.  The Aux channels need something more to easily distinguish them from each other and from the LR out.  Different control knob choices are one approach.  (Don't really know how difficult this is and if more memory is available for that purpose.)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on December 05, 2013, 09:41:11 PM
This just goes to the poorly designed UI (User Interface) that MF has. A simple color change on the white fader slider would certainly catch you attention and is trivial to implement just as leaving the 1/8" dead space between the EQ and mute button to avoid that aggravation. I could go on with a long laundry list but this would be a good start. The next update on X32 V2 will leave a grand canyon between B and M. To put all this into perspective the 20 some active posters that want more on this forum mean nothing to Mackie. We already purchased their product and most likely won't go there again. Let's do the WAG (Wild A.. Guess) and say that 20,000 units have been distributed by Mackie (based on the serial # I'm seeing). Five characters one alpha (24) and four digits (10,000). I haven't seen anything near 1000 but let's say they're there. That's 24,000 and I've only seen a handful of letters (in A-Z). This includes the pipeline (dealer stock). Well with all that math that puts us at 0.1% based on 20,000. Wow! we really have their attention now. If you want a glimpse of what Mackie thinks is important then read this  http://www.loudtechinc.com/news/2011/MarkGraham_ProAudio.pdf  you'll soon get the message that the far east is their new cash cow. US who?? You also won't see Mark Graham or Alex Nelson (Mackie's GM) on any user forum anytime soon, matter of fact you can't even get to the lowly product manager Beno anymore. B keeps saying that the X32 is the game changer it's not, the social network their embracing is. Support is the key and with communications of today word travels fast, far and wide.
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on December 05, 2013, 10:55:09 PM
I've thought that too.  The Aux channels need something more to easily distinguish them from each other and from the LR out.  Different control knob choices are one approach.  (Don't really know how difficult this is and if more memory is available for that purpose.)
+1
Different coloured layers or backgrounds is something I've wanted (and requested) since I first got my DL. If they can implement this on 2.1 I'd be really pleased :)
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: robbocurry on December 05, 2013, 11:02:05 PM
This just goes to the poorly designed UI (User Interface) that MF has. A simple color change on the white fader slider would certainly catch you attention and is trivial to implement just as leaving the 1/8" dead space between the EQ and mute button to avoid that aggravation. I could go on with a long laundry list but this would be a good start. The next update on X32 V2 will leave a grand canyon between B and M. To put all this into perspective the 20 some active posters that want more on this forum mean nothing to Mackie. We already purchased their product and most likely won't go there again. Let's do the WAG (Wild A.. Guess) and say that 20,000 units have been distributed by Mackie (based on the serial # I'm seeing). Five characters one alpha (24) and four digits (10,000). I haven't seen anything near 1000 but let's say they're there. That's 24,000 and I've only seen a handful of letters (in A-Z). This includes the pipeline (dealer stock). Well with all that math that puts us at 0.1% based on 20,000. Wow! we really have their attention now. If you want a glimpse of what Mackie thinks is important then read this  http://www.loudtechinc.com/news/2011/MarkGraham_ProAudio.pdf  you'll soon get the message that the far east is their new cash cow. US who?? You also won't see Mark Graham or Alex Nelson (Mackie's GM) on any user forum anytime soon, matter of fact you can't even get to the lowly product manager Beno anymore. B keeps saying that the X32 is the game changer it's not, the social network their embracing is. Support is the key and with communications of today word travels fast, far and wide.
The biggest surprise I got from reading the .pdf on your link was quote "....as Martin Audio has with some of their karaoke speakers..."
Martin Audio has karaoke speakers?
WTF?
Title: Re: Master/My Fader V2.0 Are Here!
Post by: WK154 on December 06, 2013, 12:26:21 AM
Me to so I checked and found them in you backyard   http://www.djkit.com/category.php?id=237&manufacturer=184  no doubt a Loud dictate. Must be for the DJ with cash. Lots of cash.