Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: musicman7722 on February 12, 2014, 10:17:35 PM
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I have just joined a new band and convinced them all to to IEM. Wow nice eh. I have been using them for years with a splitter etc. This band has no FOH person so I am FOH and bass.
So with the new version 2.0 which of the 3 settings should I use on the aux out to to the IEM user.
Thank you :facepalm:
Chris
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If you are running sound from the stage you'll want a wireless for your bass so you can wander out front to hear the PA and to not use an IEM - how will you know what the PA sounds like with an IEM?
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Yes I have and know that thanks, but which setting would you run the aux outs. I'm thinking post so the users can enjoy the tonality of the channels.
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That's good advice at one level, but in addition, you as the primary sound guy, should have your IEMs set as post fader or just tap the FOH mix. If you handle that and can keep your own perception in line, you should be fine. Just remember that guitarists tend to expect more guitar and bassists expect more bass and drummers, well you get the picture. You might need to use an Aux tailored to your expectations. You do have the advantage of being used to the IEMs. One thing that I recently realized is that IEMs can be used to make the band louder. I always expected they would be used to bring stage volume down. Might want to decide what direction this group needs. I wish you well.
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Forgot to mentioned the guitar players have ditched their amps so the only onstage sound is the drummer...:) I feel like snoopy jumping up in the air. For myself I split one of the main outs into channel 16 and treat that as a FOH send to my aux mix only. Then if I need anything more for myself I can bring it up. I have found in general going out front once in awhile with out the buds is the best test. So you agree use post on the aux right?
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You'll find many differing opinions on this.
I use post EQ (DSP) for my in-ear monitor mix. Granted, that means post compression as well, but I use compression lightly and my in-ear mix has not suffered in any way. Some will say to use the aux output compressor as a limiter, but I have not needed this myself (some in-ear systems have limiters built-in).
What is nice is we have many options here. Play with it and see what works best.
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And let us know what worked for you. Might be good info for others considering moving that direction.
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Ok I would like to sort of stay on course with my original
post but veer a bit. I had a gif this weekend as just a trio with no drums and all acoustic guitars and bass. So I ran my ears off the headphone out of the board. This fed my sennheiser G3 system. I wanted to listen in on the other guy using ears to hear his levels so I selected his aux and selected the solo button. I assume I am hearing what he hears. Question though how true a representation is it of what he is hearing?
Thank you All as always
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Can't vouch for it, but I would expect the only significant difference to be the difference in the IEMs or Headphones themselves. Should be at least the same levels he was hearing even though the EQs are probably different.
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Ok I would like to sort of stay on course with my original
post but veer a bit. I had a gif this weekend as just a trio with no drums and all acoustic guitars and bass. So I ran my ears off the headphone out of the board. This fed my sennheiser G3 system. I wanted to listen in on the other guy using ears to hear his levels so I selected his aux and selected the solo button. I assume I am hearing what he hears. Question though how true a representation is it of what he is hearing?
Thank you All as always
If you look at the now pg 176 of the manual (block diagram which is still incorrect for V2.1) you will see that the phones output will include all the aux output processing which now includes an eq as well. It will be the same.
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That is one way the DL differs from a lot of its competition. Most don't have any signal processing on the Aux outs. We get compression, 31 band eq and now a 4 band with HPF and LPF. I'm not the person using much of those, but I'll be they get used by a lot of us. (I'm feeding 2 Drive Rack PX units so I don't have much use for them. If I didn't have them, the Aux 31 bands would probably all get the RTA treatment.)
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Thank you. I missed the fact that 2.1 put the 4 band on the aux out too. Nice for iem.
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standard wisdom is pre out for monitor auxes, both to avoid compression in monitors and to avoid EQ changes out front messing up the players.
i wouldn't mind a pre-comp but post EQ option, going on the idea that if each instrument is dialed in right on the channel EQ, the result will sound good everywhere. (absolutely cannot have any monitor compression, that'll cause the singers to blow out their voices.)
maybe that'll be a V3 or at least a V2.2 thing.
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So I ran all mixes post and they sounded quite nice in the ears. No wedges onstage and I don't use any comp or gate on anything really so no isues.
Chris
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standard wisdom is pre out for monitor auxes, both to avoid compression in monitors and to avoid EQ changes out front messing up the players.
i wouldn't mind a pre-comp but post EQ option, going on the idea that if each instrument is dialed in right on the channel EQ, the result will sound good everywhere. (absolutely cannot have any monitor compression, that'll cause the singers to blow out their voices.)
maybe that'll be a V3 or at least a V2.2 thing.
Perhaps you missed the minor detail there are no floor monitors only IEM's. For that situation and in any case I would provide the talent with the eq'd sound it's what they present to the audience minus any blend and room adjustments. If they don't like what they sound like then it needs to be fixed beforehand. FOH during a performance is not the place do that. Compression for singers no way most don't have enough dynamic range to begin with. Drums yes. My opinion.
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Perhaps you missed the minor detail there are no floor monitors only IEM's.
Compression for singers no way most don't have enough dynamic range to begin with.
i think the same rules apply, compressed vox in IEMs will cause the same problem, over-singing and blown-out voices.
out front, a bit of vocal compression is a wonderful thing if you want the vocals to stay just above the mix without getting too loud, and if you want the nuanced stuff to not disappear under the drums. more of a pop/rock mixing thing, i think.
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I'm glad we agree on compression not being good for vox in general. In forums with the usual lack of detail such as genre etc. generalizations have a habit of not being the best advise. The "general wisdom" regarding floor monitors of not using compression stems from the fact that the loudness (rms) increases with compression and elevate stage loudness causing feedback sooner. IEM's eliminate that particular problem. This has less to do with the FOH balance which can be controlled. The DL is weak in this area (no DCA's or groups). Weak vox will benefit more from judicious use of reverb with pre-delay than from some compression for bringing the vocal forward. At least that's what I would try.
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I'm glad we agree on compression not being good for vox in general.
we did?
judicious comp on "pop" vocals (which means pop/rock/country etc.) is wonderful out front. it just needs to stay out of the monitors, whether wedges or IEMs.
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Just curious, is everyone in the band sharing the same monitor mix? If so, prepare yourself for a lot of dissent. It's highly unusual for everyone to agree on the levels "they" want to hear from the individual instruments, vocals, etc.
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Agreed on that. Had a singer who only wanted himself in his IEM. And every time he put them in his vocal volume dropped about 8 db. No one telling him that he did that convinced him that it was happening. (Think the first person to mention it was the bassist. Ah, who listens to bass players anyhow?)
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Best answer to a quiet singer is to turn their monitor down ;D
Seriously, that doesn't surprise me at all, HTF can he hear the rest of the band if he has IEM's without them in his mix (good IEMs can give 27dB attenuation to external sound levels)? Of course he sang quietly so he could hear the band!!! I'm surprised he could sing at all!
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Just curious, is everyone in the band sharing the same monitor mix? If so, prepare yourself for a lot of dissent. It's highly unusual for everyone to agree on the levels "they" want to hear from the individual instruments, vocals, etc.
Each person has a dedicated mix and not compression or gate. I have a FOH fold back in channel 15 for those that want a taste of the front mix but nobody uses it full.