Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Keyboard Magic on March 17, 2014, 02:49:04 PM
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I hope creating this new thread is appropriately in the right area?
So, finally dove in and bought a Mackie DL1608. Haven’t received it yet, but eagerly awaiting its arrival. Even though it’s not in my hot little hands, I am already more than familiar with its interface, Master Fader. I’ve been playing around with it since version 1.4, now at version 2.1.1. I have to say that it’s quite easy to get around on and very familiar to anyone who has used mixers with real physical faders, for a living. I do have to admit that I still like the feel of moving real faders during a gig. But…
The wireless convenience plus Master Fader and my positive experience with other Mackie gear has made me decide to bite the bullet and go for it. Having played around with Master Fader for quite some time has raised my confidence level to the point that once I have the actual mixer, I could do a major gig with it without any worries at all, right out of the box! Obviously there is going to be a learning curve, especially diving deeper into all the goodies packed into the latest software update, but not scary enough to be afraid to use it the same day it arrives.
Why I went with the Mackie instead of something else like the Line 6 Stage Scape, or any of the other new digital mixers was price, availability and familiarity with the software. I‘ve tried the other brand’s software and some look like a real mixer, but Master Fader is so much easier to work with than anything else, for me and that’s a big deal since I’m a lot older than I would like to be. I don’t want to waste a lot of time opening up PDF manuals on my laptop trying to find how to access some important function for a gazillion hours!
Sure, reading manuals is always necessary to be able to use any new techie gear to its potential, but time is more important now than ever. I want to use my new toys almost right away and this particular package fills that bill very nicely for me. The real bonus is that with every update to Master Fader and other similar software, new features and improvements are added. It’s like getting new toys for free every few months or so. Pretty cool!
Having said all that stuff above, the DL1608 does need to have a few hardware upgrades, such as possibly USB I/O and maybe even RCA in/out etc. but for what it is and for my particular needs it should fit the bill just fine. Once I’ve actually used it in a real world scenario for a while, I may change my tune about it. Time will tell!
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The DL1608 works very well as it is, as you say the app is probably the best one out there, I'm about to buy something bigger, with faders and multitrack recording (probably Behringer X32 Compact) but will keep my DL1608 and probably use it on far more gigs than the big mixer. The DL is what it is and provides far more than the same money spent on the analogue kit of very few years ago. Far too useful to replace ;D
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Sam I see you now over at the behringer forums. I would highly recommend selling the dl for a rack to go along with your compact. I've been using mine now for a little bit and it's worlds apart from the dl. I mainly suggest this because the x32 compact/mackie dl1608 combo does nothing for you. Whereas the x32 compact/rack opens up a ton. And when you are an X user you will get used to the app so you can use the rack on its own in place if the dl. I have been finding out that the x app is very easy and fast to use once you know it's layout.
Your a smart guy. I'm sure you will figure out what I am saying on your own. But keep in mind the street value of a used dl1608 is dropping because of the mixers that are in direct competition. And when the x18 comes out the dl will lose even more value. I'm 1 million percent positive mackie will have a price drop on the dl. If they don't they are nuts. I got $725 for my dl with the case. I wanted more but numerous companies have already dropped the price of the dl. A smart consumer will figure that out and use it as leverage. Good thing is I only paid 795. If you are from the uk things may be different there.
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Keyboard Magic,
Welcome to the forum. There are a lot of happy DL users here but also a few that are not so happy - hence the Behringer discussion.
I've been using my DL1608 for well over a year now and have had no major issues. As you aready know the ipad app is excellent and if you buy a 5Ghz capable modem you will have few networking issues.
I wish you all the best with your purchase.
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Keyboard Magic,
Welcome aboard! I also am new to the forum and the DL. So far I have used it for one rehearsal and one gig. No problems, and the band and manager were happy with the improved sound quality. The fact that anyone else even noticed says a lot! I couldn't get the router to work, but that has to do with the old crappy wifi router, I'm sure.
We went with the DL for similar reasons: ease of use, it has the features we need, and it's an established product.
Best of luck with your DL.
Paul
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I'm a former PC/Network tech and even I had a few problems setting up my Airport Express. Once setup correctly, they are not a problem. When using both bands, you need different names for each of the frequencies. I used NoInternetHere and NoInternetHere5Ghz. (Didn't have dual bands when I last worked in the field. Actually didn't have WiFi in the office where I was working. Been a while.) Of course I put a sizeable passPhrase on it. (Easier to remember and in my case, both bands have the same passPhrase.) You will need to hook up each wifi device correctly once. Then, in the case of my ipad and master fader, I need to make sure that it's hooked up to the 5Ghz band. (Not having problems with the 2.4Ghz, but just know that the 5 Ghz is less likely to have too much traffic. At least for now.)
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The DL is a great little mixer and will cover big and small gigs. It's improving with every update. Unless you need more channels I wouldn't suggest you sell something you've just bought :facepalm:
MasterFader isn't perfect but is easy to use and pretty powerful too. I bought a new, bigger mixer last week, but won't be parting with my DL anytime soon!
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+1 to all the comments above ;D
Sam I see you now over at the behringer forums. I would highly recommend selling the dl for a rack to go along with your compact. I've been using mine now for a little bit and it's worlds apart from the dl. I mainly suggest this because the x32 compact/mackie dl1608 combo does nothing for you. Whereas the x32 compact/rack opens up a ton. And when you are an X user you will get used to the app so you can use the rack on its own in place if the dl. I have been finding out that the x app is very easy and fast to use once you know it's layout.
Your a smart guy. I'm sure you will figure out what I am saying on your own. But keep in mind the street value of a used dl1608 is dropping because of the mixers that are in direct competition. And when the x18 comes out the dl will lose even more value. I'm 1 million percent positive mackie will have a price drop on the dl. If they don't they are nuts. I got $725 for my dl with the case. I wanted more but numerous companies have already dropped the price of the dl. A smart consumer will figure that out and use it as leverage. Good thing is I only paid 795. If you are from the uk things may be different there.
I get where you're coming from Jerry, and I am considering a rack at some point but first I want faders and I can't afford both Compact and Rack even if I do sell the DL (used DL - £750, new X32 Rack - £1200 in the UK at present). And I don't think the X32 app is a nice to use as MF (I've spent a fair bit of time playing with it). For the few gigs I'll do with the compact I'll probably hire an S16, if I decide it's worth buying one I'll consider selling the DL and buying a rack instead but for now the DL works for me, if it ain't broke, don't fix it >:D
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Just another x32 piece of advice for ya Sam. The compact actually has 22 inputs, not 16. The aux ins are inputs too. You can also assign them to regular channels. I purchased some Audix T-50K Inline Impedance Matching Transformers. These make the 1/4s into xlrs. They also have a short cable to relieve the pressure the solid inline ones have. Hosa makes a good one too. I thought about an s16, or a second rack, too for more channels but I don't usually need more than 16. On a rare occasion I may need 2-4 more, and now I have 6.
My next setup will be phenomenal looking. I am buying a laptop, or small computer, and three 24 inch monitors. I will have 4 instances of x32 edit running. I can be out front with my setup connected wirelessly. Eventually I'll add the xtouch into the mix as a control surface. It will look totally sweet! With the X series there is no real reason to ever touch the board once everything is plugged in.
I enjoyed the dl but the rack is just soooooo much better. I just did a festival this past weekend. I had music playing all day, and a band closing the show both days. I set up the rack, ran a snake, and all lines and mics. I put the rack under the stage and never touched, or looked at it again. All hours before the bands got there. I have preached the programmable gains here before but that festival really showed me how much I really love them. I was able to set up everything from 100 ft away. A few times the guitar player changed his level on me. I didn't have to go near the stage to fix it. I did it all remotely. In the past I had to run back to the stage to lower the gains. Previously I set the dl up in the middle of the stage as a stage box. And that's where I need to be to set gains. Setting up drum mic levels was hell. Especially with no earplugs. And when a gain was clipping because of a volume change guess where I needed to be. Yup, back on stage, or where ever I put the dl.
Another bonus too: I bought a Sandisk cruzer 16 gb USB flash drive. It's tiny. Plugged it into the front panel. I am able to record too. I just leave the drive in. Start/stop/playback all from the iPad app. It records over 35 hours before I need to ever remove it. During a big event like this past weekend I just record the mains because the mix was perfect. Two weeks ago I did sound for a band in a restaurant/bar. Was a big place but still had a stage noise. The main mix was not what I wanted to record. So I set up a secondary mix for recording. I actually mixed by the meters. Worked great. I also do that when I play small places with my drummer. We mic everything up just for the recording mix. One day I'll setup my wireless iem's, or a wireless control room speaker, and mix from there.
Sam you are in for a treat.
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Yeah, I know the smaller X32s have 16 mic inputs plus 6 line level aux's, that's another reason for considering a Rack instead of an S16 to act as a stagebox. there's no way I'm going back to running an analogue snake again :lol:
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Thank you all for the warm welcomes and encouraging comments on owning and operating the DL1608 :)
It's still not here yet, but fingers, eyes and toes crossed. (Can't do to much work in this state though!) I have everything in place; Airport Express Router, 2 ipad 2's (??) the latest iteration of Master Fader (2.1.1) on both ipads, the Airport Utility App and lots of practice on Master Fader.
I am fairly experienced ;) using analog mixers (real moveable faders even) and for my age fairly comfortable using iOS devices, so there shouldn't be too much of a learning curve, hopefully, using the DL in a live setting. I'm still going to bring along my little Alan and Heath Z10 for backup just in case I or the DL craps out inadvertently until I'm completely comfortable with it.
I am so looking forward to using my new DL and the thought of being able to do a sound check/tune the room without running 2 miles back and forth from the mixing desk before and during a concert!! x( My old legs will thank me, I think!
I am also looking forward to sharing ideas, comments and thoughts with everyone here about the DL, Mackie in general and any other cool stuff related to the industry.
CIAO for NOW !!! 8)
PS: It's soooo nice to be labeled a Youngling after joining up ;D
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Hey JL. Have you had the opportunity to use those inline impedance matching transformers? Obviously, you don't get the Midas preamp, but otherwise I suppose you get remote control of the input gain and after assigning, the same capabilities as any other channel. I ask because I used to do this with an analog board line input when in a pinch for more channels and found that I had to significantly boost the input gain and would pick up a little noise. Sound quality suffered a bit due to the lack of a good preamp as well.
I have been on the edge of getting a Rack, but have considered that I would be out another $800 for an S-16 as soon as I needed extra channels. The prospect of squeezing another 6 channels out of the Rack has gotten my attention. Even without utilizing the aux inputs on the Rack I gain an aux out and an input channel over my DL....I now have to use those on my DL to use an external reverb that sounds decent.
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Yes I have used them and they work perfectly. The signal is loud and clean. I bought 4 because the last two lines are dedicated to my airplay. Just so you know you still get the same gain when you assign to a regular channel. The aux in gains are different than the xlr Midas preamp gains. When you assign the aux in to a channel the gain structure changes to match the aux in gain structure. The xlr gains are analogue for -12 to +60 db. The aux ins are apparently a digital gain to +18. If you crank it with a low signal, and a 1/4 in, there will be some noise. But the same can go for any 1/4 in. That's why I use the adapter for all xlrs.
If you have the app, and look at the gains on the aux's, you may see the same as the xlr ins. You'll also see phantom power too. Obviously the 1/4 ins don't have phantom. That's only in the demo mode. So it may get you confused.
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Hi KM, welcome to the forum, I don't post that often but a read them all, you will soon get used to the variety of characters, including the grumpy ones (mentioning no names.....). It is however an excellent forum, for learning all those tricks and tips.
I have had the DL 1608 for about 16 months, and done about 50 gigs with it, so far never failed. So I would recommend d this to anyone. We use all 16 channels and all 6 aux. 5 for in ear monitors, and 1 for drummers BumChum.
I recall a previous show, similar size venue, I am always pleased when almost everything is there, just a little tweaking, Drums always take the longest, but using the gate I usually get them done in 5 or 10 minutes.
I am also Keyboard player and mix from the stage
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It's great to read all the impressions and experiences from DL owners. They help you decide whether to buy or not, there are excellent tips to make the experience better, problem solving help and they make you feel as if you are not the only one with issues.
I did a lot of research into the DL, reading reviews from all over the net. It has taken me over a year to finally pop for one. For myself personally it meets my current needs. Yes, there are things about the DL that could be improved, but it was available now. The Line 6 StageScape looked really cool, but the price for it here in Toronto was out of reach for me. (about $1000.00 more) Of course if the DL crapped out at a major gig more than once, I would be very upset too, especially if the service from Mackie wasn't up to par.(haven't experienced their service dept. yet) I would seriously consider getting rid of it pretty fast, just like any other gear that was unreliable.
As I mentioned in previous posts, I don't have it yet, but when it's here I'm giving it a chance. The positive reviews for me out weighed the negatives. I've had Behringer gear and have had no issues. ( just lucky I guess) I've had Mackie with good results as well. Just like in the computer world, hard drives have a MTBF (mean time before failure) rate. If it powers up right out of the box it will likely run for a long time. I know, that doesn't always mean it will work forever, but... Time will tell, I guess. :P
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This may start a firestorm, but here goes! :o
So, I’ve been following all of the comments all over the net for some time on the DL1608. Of course there’s good and bad. There always will be with new technologies. Even before I bought the DL I was caught up in all the “should’ve been added features”. When it boils down to it, the way it is now is practical for anything I’m going to use it for. The biggest feature for me is wireless operation from anywhere in the venue. Yes, I know that you have to buy a separate compatible wireless router to use this feature. In an ideal world it should have been built in for the price they are asking for it. So should a whole bunch of other little features. That’s neither here nor there for me.
I could have saved up some more (a lot more) cash to buy one of the other brands with more features per dollar, but the ones that had the cooler stuff in this price range are not available yet. The Behringer X18 may show up sometime this year? The QSC TouchMix is not out yet. The other digital boards that are available like the X32 etc. are out of my price range at the moment. The Mackie was available now with features that fill the bill. I think Mackie pushed it out to the market to fill a need in that price range. IMHO they are a little behind the times now. I don’t know if the Line 6 StageScape came out around the same time or not, but it’s about $1000.00 more than the DL in Toronto.
I just purchased it this month, so I really debated a long time before buying. Where do we draw the line with all the desired features? I’m sure that now that I have purchased this particular iteration of the DL, they will probably bring out a version 2 model with some much needed hardware upgrades before the end of this year. (I know wishful thinking!) Myself, I am not going to jump until I’ve had a few years use out of it. By that time I’ll probably have to get to my gigs with a walker. x(
No I do not work for Mackie and if Yorkville had come out with something similar I would have jumped all over it. But they didn’t and probably won’t ever, or at least in my lifetime.
That’s my rant. Thank you to all that have taken the time to read this. :)
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KM I'm curious how much you paid for your dl in Toronto. I had mine on Craigslist and kijiji there and could have saved you a lot of $$$.
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KM - has your DL arrived yet?
While it can be useful to read everything you can about a product, its how well it does the job for you that really matters.
It will be good to hear your thoughts when you have done a few gigs with it.
For me, the DL continues to delight me and its small footprint is just perfect for the work I do. Sure I'd like some of the features of the newer more expensive products but isn't that always the way with technical products.
Good luck with yours!
Cheers
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Fluddman;
Haven't got it yet, but I really am looking forward to getting it. It's supposed to arrive at Long & McQuade on or about March 27th. Thank you for you supportive words. I think it will actually do quite well for me!
And to Jerrylee;
Kick to the pants, I never even thought about Craigslist and Kijiji :-[
it retailed at Long & McQuade Toronto for $1099.99. Actually I am kicking myself for not buying when Mackie had the $100.00 discount last year AND the retail price before the $100 off was $999.99 :facepalm: I would have got it for $899.00 OIY!! Hindsight is always 20-20 :-[
I will report back once I do have it in my sticky little fingers. I'd better stop, I'm already drooling all over my laughtop in anticipation :laugh:
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So... Just unpacked my new DL1608 today. :D
Inserted my iPad 2, powered it up in the correct sequence and the firmware update went smoothly. To my surprise, all my pre-configured scenes that I experimented with before I got my DL were completely erased. ??? Yes I am using the latest version of Master Fader (2.1.1)
Is this a normal one shot occurrence out of the box during a firmware update, or will this happen every time there is an update to Master Fader? If it is, it's more of a minor annoyance than anything else. I can always make new scenes. I even tried to see if they could be found with the iPad connected to my laptop running iTunes. Nope. Any suggestions or comments?
Other than this little quirk, I'm really looking forward to using it in a live situation!! That will be this coming Monday. ;D
News Update from Mackie Tech Support on this issue: "This is currently an issue we are investigating. Typically you should not lose any presets, snapshots, etc. when updating." I could've done something wrong maybe??
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I've had a few quirky results. One being a return of a bandmember that is under doctor's orders to not play for the next 6 months. Haven't figured out how that happened. I don't recall saving any shows with him since the heart attack. (He's recovering and we miss him.) I do think that it might have occurred from my backup on the macbook. I have taken to allowing the mixer to decide first configuration. If I need a different show, I give it a couple of minutes before recalling a different show. Seems to work better, but I can't tell you for sure. (Might just be my imagination.)
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So, I set up the DL with my powered speakers in my family room. It powered up okay and Master Fader worked as expected. I plugged in an SM-58 mic, set up the pre-amp level, raised the main volume and voila, sound from the speakers. I have to admit that the mic sounded pretty good in the house. I then hooked up the laptop to play some stereo trax. For some reason the pre-amps sounded a little brassy through my powered cabs. I left all EQ at flat. I know that mp3’s are known for less than pristine audio quality. :P
I then hooked up my Allen & Heath Z10 mixer and ran the same scenario. The overall sound quality was a lot warmer than the DL. I A/B’d both mixers a couple of times and the ZED is definitely warmer overall. Once I set up the DL for a 3rd listen, I was able to play around with the EQ curves and make my powered speakers sound a bit closer to the Allen. I think that since I am so used to the warm sound from the A&H my ears will need a little bit of retraining to become used to the DL’s Onyx pre-amps. In a live situation, most people won’t even hear the difference. And that’s all that matters. But I do like to present the best sound that I can though.
Time will tell in a live situation and if I am not happy at all with the DL, I can return it within 30 days back to Long & McQuade for a complete refund. I am going to take most of the 30 days to give the DL a fair chance. ;)
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FWIW There's no knowing what it will sound like until you're at the gig. I compared my DL to my Mixwiz, and just felt the DL sounded better, clearer or more distinct. YMMV
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stevegarris;
You're 100% right on there. :thu: Everything sounds different at the gig. Type of room, number of people etc, etc, and so on. I will be able to ring the DL and system out properly when my first gig happens next week. ;)
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Well, I have my x32 Rack on order so I have been working with the mix app and editor program in preparation. It certainly has a ton more features, capabilities and flexibility even before you get to it's multi-track recording capabilities. Maybe it is because I have used my DL for a year and a half, but it sure seems a lot more user friendly than the Rack. I can see where, intentionally or not, Mackie could be marketing to a slightly different crowd. While I no longer play and have used the DL strictly to do sound for other bands and events, I can see where it would be much easier for a performing soundman to use the DL. BTW, I have gotten great results with the DL and have enjoyed using it.
It' kind of like a billing program that our firm used. When the staff kept messing up the billing for a lack of training and familiarity, the rep hawked it's flexibility and features as it's strong points. Unfortunately, the multitude of options increased the complexity and the staff did much better with a more basic user friendly program. In that vein, I have been able to school an assistant on the DL in no time, but would not try that with the Rack.
That's my 2 cents worth and it is worth exactly that.
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I haven't tried running an RTA through the mixer. That might have radically different results. My Alesis Multimix 16 firewire is very midrange strong, but the DL and my MixWiz never seemed very far apart sound wise. (Never A/B'd them in the same room.) So I'm finding this interesting. My Driverack units don't RTA through a mixer but only past it. I do have an older school RTA that I can use through a mixer-EQ-Amp-Speaker system. Your results have me curious about the results.
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KM if you want a fair comparison you need to only compare the mixers in this case. You need to eliminate all outside influences such as speakers and room acoustics. Get yourself a quality pair of headphones and simply compare at the same loudness levels the two mixers. You can play with eq's etc. to get a sound that pleases you. The rest of the setup for the gig will depend on other factors such as speakers and room acoustics along with output conditioning (eq's comp. etc.). A good RMS Volt meter would give you precise loudness levels. MP3 quality can be better than CD quality 44.1K x 16 to poorer than CD quality. :)
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WK154;
Thank you for the tip about using a good pair of headphones to just compare the mixers without any other influences. :thu: I do have a pair of studio phones for audio editing etc. Those should work just fine for the comparison. Different pre amps will also sound different to my ears as well. So the phones are an excellent choice!!
You are right on about mp3 quality too. They go up to 320 kps which sound pretty good. Of course for school dances I can even get away with 128 kps. The kids just want it loud. ::)
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Screw the headphones. When will you be playing a gig with headphones? That was terrible advice. Compare the two boards with your speakers. The "outside influences" that affect the boards will exist every time, and anywhere, you play. But comparing in the same exact environment A/B'ing the boards you will get a great comparison, headphones or speakers. Don't you want to compare the board how they will actually be used? Headphones are speakers too. They also have an influence on sound. But again, when will you be playing live through headphones? They better be damn big ones. Or you better have a lot to hand out and a major headphone amp.
The one thing I like to use headphones to test is the effects. Just to hear what they sound like. But I could also do this with my speakers. The reason I test my effects this way is to get an idea of what they sound like with out having to set up my speakers. But I am just testing the effects. Not comparing them to anything. Just getting used to them.
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Think you missed the point. When comparing two mixers for sound quality, headphones are probably the best approach. It's obviously not the answer to setting up a PA system for a gig and I don't think anyone suggested that it was. When comparing two mixers side by side, headphones would surely make any differences obvious quickly. On the other hand, good mixers don't color sound much unless you're attempting to make it happen. (I lean with the flat response crowd. My channel EQs are rarely anywhere except flat. I'm using DriveRack PX for system EQ.)
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I have to admit that headphones will let you know if something is wrong with your board that may or may not show up at the gig. And auditioning the effects without having to set up your whole system is a time saver too. But as a professional musician I rely 100% on my ears either when entertaining or running sound. I absolutely have to hear the room at all times. That way I can gauge on how to adjust my levels and or tweak the sound etc. etc. ::)
Except when I DJ school dances. Due to many years playing loud music in bands and my advanced age :P I now wear isolation headphones. (only for the kiddies dances!) With the type of music requested and the above average SPL I really don't need to hear the room :laugh:
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Good luck with the DL1608. I purchased one last July(2013) with a grant from the Trillium Foundation, to help with some fundraising concerts and such. It has definitely done most of what I need and I have to say I'm quite satisfied. Some things to note, if you haven't already:
1) all the inputs are MONO in. This sounds pretty straight forward as most of your mics/instruments will also only send a mono signal. but if you try to run a cable from a stereo source ( like an ipod/mp3 player) and pass it through the combo input ( channels 12-16) your going to lose one of the channels. You need something appropriate to combine the channels into a mono signal, or a splitter to send 2 separate channels (not a copy of both channels) to individual inputs.
2) Read up on the Effects thread (reverb/delay) it will save you some frustration
3) Get a reliable router.
4) Download a copy of Voice Recorder Pro( its Free) if you want to listen to something you've recently recorded. The super odd decision by Mackie to provide no way to listen to something that you have just recorded is a pit of a pain.
5) Get a sign/shirt that says your working :) You wouldn't believe how many people thought I was rudely playing games on the ipad during some of the awesome performances while I was mixing from the crowd!
Edit: also keep in mind, it is a tool. Like most tools, is probably does what it's supposed to do well, and it can do a few other things if needed, and if pushed, can do things it was not intended for. For example, a hammer is pretty good at driving nails into wood, it can also serve quite well as a paperweight, and if pushed, you can use it to cut a board in two (with extreme effort, and generally unpleasant results). The upside is that through software, some adjustments can be made regarding its utility, but it will have its limits.
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5) Get a sign/shirt that says your working :) You wouldn't believe how many people thought I was rudely playing games on the ipad during some of the awesome performances while I was mixing from the crowd!
Welcome! Oh, and we're gonna need a picture of that shirt for the FAQs 8) .
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If I get the budget approved, I'll make copies for everyone :) And thanks for the Welcome!!
BTW, this forum is a gold mine of information!! Only found it yesterday.
Why did Loud (current owners of the Mackie brand) go with FB as their official forum? So strange... :facepalm:
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Scott;
Welcome to the forum!
Thanks for the pointers, they are very helpful. I've been playing around with a free app from Focusrite called TAPE. It appears to be similar to Voice Recorder. But hey, I can always use another cool free app like that to play around with too! 8) As for the wireless router, I have an Apple AirPort Express. Haven't used it yet, but hope it's reliable? I plan to use it on the 5GHz band for less interference.
I love the suggestion of wearing an appropriate identifying T to let people know what I am actually doing with my iPad :lol: Fortunately or unfortunately at the school I run sound at, they all know me too well. I seem to be a permanent fixture there. ???
I have found this site to be very informative and all who post here are very helpful with their experiences and expertise. What can I say, it's great to be here. (no pun intended) ;) I think you will be very pleased!
And once more.... WELCOME!!! 8)
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Thanks KB, fellow Canuck!
I was part of a video shoot for a young cellist a month or so ago (full disclosure: I'm the dad) and used the DL1608 for recording. I think it turned out pretty good audio wise. I didn't do any post recording processing on the audio, all of what you hear is pretty much raw from the DL1608. I've never listened to it on decent head phones, but it's seems captured quite well if you listen to is with decent speakers, aka not laptop grade :)
enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud_AfgQbR_0
btw, if you have done any video work, my applogies. That stuff takes far too long !!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud_AfgQbR_0
Wow, I think I'll just burn all my musical instruments now x( :facepalm: ;)
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Note on current version of airport express. It will do simultaneous 5 and 2.4 ghz and I would recommend using it that way with different names for the different bands. My iphone won't do 5 ghz and is the only backup to the ipad for control.. (Volume only, but in a pinch that should be enough.) it would be better to have a second ipad, but right now, I'm not springing for one.
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Hey Scott';
Nice eh? Too Canadian? Good video, good sound and the talent was good too. I am impressed with the sound quality even on YouTube. I've been a professional musician for some 40 plus years and can appreciate all good talent. :thu:
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Yes on YouTube and most other social media they take your media and convert it to their current fare so don't expect audio to be what you recorded and in the case of Wave files or Aiff it will be compressed. After that you're at the mercy of the listener and their equipment. Yah think it will be the same? NO. Send the actual file if you need to be accurate.
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Wynnd I again disagree. When you are going over certain aspects of an individual mixer it is nice to use headphones. You can hear how eqs react, effects sound, dynamics, etc. But when comparing two mixers for sound/tonal quality it would not mater what you are using to compare. It's best to "compare" two mixers by using the very pa you will be using them through. If the room is going to affect one mixer, it's going to affect the other as well. That's what I would want to hear. How my mixers, with my pa, sound in a room. And headphone amps vary greatly in mixers. They don't always compare to the main outs.
If I wanted to hear individual effects, and compare them, yes I might use headphones. But that's not the point. The point is to compare the mixers as a whole. Not just compare the effects. And they can still be compared through a pa.
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I would love to do a blind test of systems that are RTA flat. I'm betting nearly everyone won't be able to tell the difference. Now if your system isn't flat, you're comparing the systems and not the mixers. You will get a huge amount of variance on systems that aren't flat. That said, I do have one mixer that is mid range heavy. But it's the only one that I've had that was that way since 1990. (It's my recording mixer and I don't plan to change it. I can always clean things up in the mix down.) I'm doubting that the MixWiz and the DL sound noticeably different when set up exactly the same. (Channel EQs flat and no effects.) Blind test is really the only way to move beyond opinions and into truth. I'd be willing to volunteer my equipment, but I sold the MixWiz. (Still a very nice mixer.)
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So to follow up on my most excellent DL1608 adventure :) I thought I'd try to set up my airport express router, (it is the newest version)to make sure I can use wireless for the upcoming gig Monday. ??? 2 hours later and pulling out what hair I have left, it decided to go from front LED flashing yellow to sold green = connected. Please don't ask how I was able to do that, but blind luck, a fluke or what every deity intervened, it's working 100% 8) Hip hip hurray, let the bells ring out, I can run my DL wirelessly from my second iPad and even stream audio in stereo via AirPlay from my windows laptop using iTunes. whoo hooo!!
Aside from my audio/music gigs, I am also a part time computer technician and have configured too many routers and wireless routers, but I've really haven't come up against something as stubborn as the Apple router :o. It is probably my ineptness with apple that caused all this frustration. But the Mackie quick wireless setup pdf assures one that set up is sooooo easy with any router and since I am using apple gear, it should be even easier? Guess not! My wish would be for Master Fader to somehow make connection painless. But in the real world that's a whole 'nother story!
Any way it's working and I for one am not going to mess with any settings to screw up my wireless. That's my rant and thank you all for listening. (well, reading actually) 8)
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It took me a couple of minutes to get my express working when I got it. Not exactly sure what you did.
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I've found you have to be fairly precise on the order you turn systems on. If you just randomly plug stuff in and turn things on, it may take a while.
I tend to follow this pattern for best results:
1) connect everything ( all unpowered , except the Ipad)
2) power up the router and wait a bit ( sub 3 mins)
3) find the router on the ipad wifi settings (and connect)
4)power up the mixer
5) check (within MasterFader if the wired Ipad is connected)
6)remove the Ipad from the mixer, and check if it had synced to masterfader wirelessly
From there its usually pretty good.
I've used some Netgear voip router and also a Dlink battery operated thing (I'll check at some point on the exact models if anyone is interested)
I get plenty of drops/disconnects from the netgear thing, but the Dlink has been stable. Could be interference from the venues though, i haven't really tested it all out.
Bit of a pain if you set up your gear, power your mains, (with phantom on) then notice you can't get a wireless connection..... shut it all down, and start in the prescribed order.
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So to follow up on my most excellent DL1608 adventure :) I thought I'd try to set up my airport express router, (it is the newest version)to make sure I can use wireless for the upcoming gig Monday. ??? 2 hours later and pulling out what hair I have left, it decided to go from front LED flashing yellow to sold green = connected. Please don't ask how I was able to do that, but blind luck, a fluke or what every deity intervened, it's working 100% 8) Hip hip hurray, let the bells ring out, I can run my DL wirelessly from my second iPad and even stream audio in stereo via AirPlay from my windows laptop using iTunes. whoo hooo!!
Aside from my audio/music gigs, I am also a part time computer technician and have configured too many routers and wireless routers, but I've really haven't come up against something as stubborn as the Apple router :o. It is probably my ineptness with apple that caused all this frustration. But the Mackie quick wireless setup pdf assures one that set up is sooooo easy with any router and since I am using apple gear, it should be even easier? Guess not! My wish would be for Master Fader to somehow make connection painless. But in the real world that's a whole 'nother story!
Any way it's working and I for one am not going to mess with any settings to screw up my wireless. That's my rant and thank you all for listening. (well, reading actually) 8)
The light on the Express will only flash green when you are have a working internet connection (as opposed to a local area network). You don't need to be connected to the internet for your network to be working between the ipad and DL. Flashing yellow is the norm for me as I don't connect to the internet when I am using the DL at a gig.
Cheers
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JerryLee, you must have the right touch! :) No I really don't know what I did :facepalm:
Scott: Thank you for the correct startup tips! :thu:
Fluddman: Thanks for that interesting point about continuous flashing yellow light and that you can still connect the iPad wirelessly just the same. : :thu:
As long as it continues to work. "If it ain't broke....." ::)
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The Airport Express wants to see an Internet connection. If you had one, the setup would take about 2 minutes. I ran into the same issues. Think it took me about 20 minutes. I've had to experience of setting up an Airport Express at home. (twice and recently a time capsule.) I can vouch that the setup with internet goes quickly and easily. And I also wanted the green light running on mine. (Especially because I mounted it in plain sight beside the mixer.) I've been trying to configure Airplay, but haven't had much time to work through all the issues. (Result is Airplay doesn't work yet. One of these days, it will become important enough to work on.)
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Um...guys...really? 1st, the flashing goes away when you tell the express router to ignore the issue. It does not need an internet connection to be green fludd. 2nd as long as you are connected to the express router, which is simple, you will have airplay. Also very simple to use. This was one of the easiest parts of the dl setup to deal with.
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Wynnd;
Experience helps for sure. I'm a cough, windoze guy :-[ That's probably my road block with the apple, sometimes I still get a little frustrated with the iPad, but I am plugging along and am slowly getting more comfortable with them.
As for AirPlay, I hate to say it, :-[ mine worked right away. I plugged in the audio cable from the airport to the DL, connected my windows laptop to the airport wireless, loaded iTunes and selected the airplay option from within iTunes, and I was playing stereo audio wirelessly. It's more than likely beginners luck. ???
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Soooo used the DL for the first time at an all day gig at the wife's school for public speaking. I used the remote ipad to mix and left the other ipad docked. It worked flawlessly. No sync loss at all. I even walked a fair distance out of the gym with the remote ipad to test the wireless signal strength. It didn't drop at all. :o The response with the remote ipad was quite good. No obvious lag when moving a fader on the remote, to actual response from the mixer.
Having never used wireless mixing at all in my career, this was quite a treat to be free from sitting at the console all the time and running all over the venue to listen and mix. Fingers crossed that this experience continues for the life of my DL. 8)
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Soooo used the DL for the first time at an all day gig at the wife's school for public speaking. I used the remote ipad to mix and left the other ipad docked. It worked flawlessly. No sync loss at all. I even walked a fair distance out of the gym with the remote ipad to test the wireless signal strength. It didn't drop at all. :o The response with the remote ipad was quite good. No obvious lag when moving a fader on the remote, to actual response from the mixer.
Having never used wireless mixing at all in my career, this was quite a treat to be free from sitting at the console all the time and running all over the venue to listen and mix. Fingers crossed that this experience continues for the life of my DL. 8)
That has been my experience over and over again. Enjoy!
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You know, I have been worrying about the potential problems with the DL, dropped connections, white noise etc, but I haven't actually had a single problem which couldn't be put down to operator error in the 15 months (and around 30-40 gigs) I've owned and used it it. It's a damn good bit of kit and, TBH, I love it. ;D
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Not sure whether to post this here or not?
But...Since joining this great site, I've been doing a lot of reading on the positive and negative experiences with the DL. I'm finding a lot of negative ones (justifiably?) that make me wonder if this is a possible future in owning my DL. I will say that if any of my gear became undependable and let me down at a venue, I would give the manufacturer a chance to remedy the issue and if the said issue (s) were not addressed and kept reoccurring said gear would either be returned (if still under warranty) or dumped so fast that it wouldn't know what happened to it.
I want to give my DL a chance, 'cause it's so new and I really like it so far, but I am almost considering (almost!)(waffling) on if I should take it back before the 30 day exchange is up? Yes, I have had good experiences with Mackie in the past and Behringer too. But if there are so many potential issues? I am still leaning on trusting my DL for now. Fingers crossed! I understand if some people have been burned, I really feel. But it does make one think.
I guess I'd better stop before this turns into a small novel ::)
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I'd say some people have had some issues but I'm not aware of any having show stopping problems (and I follow this forum and a couple of others closely). While one or two have had sync issues (inconvenient, but not a show stopper) with a docked iPad, many more have had no such problems (I know a couple of people will be along presently with horror stories but I can only speak for my own experiences). If you had an analogue desk with a rack of outboard you'd expect to have occasional faulty cables, connectors or knobs/faders.
If it's working ok then keep it and if it subsequently fails you have the guarantee to fall back on.
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Although I no longer have the dl, and have made a huge jump to an x32 rack, the dl never failed me. It's a great board for what it is. Don't expect it to do something it cannot. Buy it, own it, and use it if it fits your needs. If you start finding limitations in the unit that you feel you want or need then it's time to move on.
I moved on for only a few reasons, but the rack has a lot more than a few advantages. For me the key was the programable gains. Once you have them you will never go back to anything without. It's just way too much of a convenience. And having 22 usable input channels helped my decision too. I also needed a recording interface and it suits the bill. I have also found myself using the front USB for 2 track recording. I leave in a Sandisk thumb drive. I have the ability to fully mix a seperate recording mix. But recording to the USB is just a bonus. The are a lot of advantages and feature the rack offers over the dl. But again, if the dl fits all your needs then stick with it. It has limitations compared some competition and yet blows away some of the others.
I will go back to my original reason for the switch. The programable gains. For a board to be truly remote you need to be able to walk away from it after all cables are plugged in. You cannot do that with the dl. You need to set gains. And if one is off you need to go back to it. I did a huge festival with my rack several weeks ago. I set it up, plugged everything in, threw it under the stage and never looked at it again. And this was hours before the band I was mixing showed up. The next day I did the same thing for my own band. I always try to tell people to give me a good loud check so I can set gains. But almost always there is an issue when everyone is playing. No more running back to the board to make small gain adjustments. Sometimes I have run the gains a little lower with the dl to avoid issues. But that didn't always work. The programable gains alone are worth the price difference.
KM in the US it's only a $200 difference (without coupons or deals. Less of a difference with one). I know in canada it's a few hundred difference at this point. I say this just in case you wanted to make a switch. But based on what you do the dl should be just fine.
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Jerrylee & sam.spoons
Thank you both for the encouraging comments. Yes you're right and for what I use it for, even a glitch once in a while is not something to make me get rid of the DL just yet. Wireless mixing is so cool! ;D Sure if it's a major fail, that's a different story. Some issues can be put down to, heaven forbid, :eek: user error on my part.
As an example, I used my ZED10 today for a 2 track stereo recording of the school choir and the ZED would not record stereo through USB into my laptop running Sound Forge 11. I could hear stereo in the headphones from the ZED. The 2 mics were in X-Y pattern hard panned left and right and the acoustic guitar was running off a direct box into a single mono channel. Dollars to donuts it was my problem and not the gear's fault. :facepalm:
Sooooo, doing a little research and an enquiry to Allen& Heath just for fun.
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Given that the X18 is several months away the DL is the best desk in a class of one. I love mine for the great (in every way) desk it is. Yes, it has it's limitations but in the important areas, (sound quality, and reliability) mine has been great. As long as it stays reliable and has the features I need I'll try to keep it. Of course I may follow JL's path at some stage and buy an X32 but probably one with faders first and only replace the DL with an X32 rack when I find myself needing a stagebox regulally. And, IMHO, the Master Fader app is still the best out there by some margin.
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So, I just jumped out of my own DL1606 phenomenon today. :o I decided to set up my system at home since I have a very important gig coming up this week. Since I've only used my DL in a live situation once, I felt it was a good idea. So I hooked every thing up and voila the DL wouldn't pass any audio to any outputs, even to the headphone jack. :facepalm:
So I powered everything off and tried again. This time the DL wouldn't recognize either iPad, not even charging. I then tried different start up methods, no joy! I then reset the DL to factory, downloaded the firmware, reset both iPads and both issues (no audio, no charging/sync) reoccurred one after the other. I must add that both iPads were pushed iOS 7.1.1 updates today. This is probably why my DL crapped out. Maybe the next Master Fader/firmware update would have remedied this annoying issue, but without knowing when it will arrive made up my mind, especially with the upcoming gig this coming Wednesday.
I kinda think that a small iOS update shouldn't break the system? So this being the last day of my 30 day return policy at Long & McQuade, I very quickly took the DL back and got a full refund. So now it's time to regroup, wait for a while and keep researching. Actually if L&M had had the Behringer x32 rack, or was able to get one, I might have gone for it. For now I am going to rent.
I think I am more disappointed than anything else right now. I really loved the using the DL for a very short time. Like I said in another post, if the DL becomes unreliable..... If I didn't have this important gig coming so soon, I might have kept my DL and tried to iron out these issues. But with the 30 day return up today....
I will be staying on the site because it's so good and I do enjoy it. Everyone has been so helpful and very informative. :thu: Thank you one and all for all your quotes and comments. I look forward to reading more good stuff. :)
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Sorry to hear that your adventure with the DL ended abruptly, fortunately just under your return period. From what you stated before in your selection process I'm guessing that the QSC product would be a good match unless you wait for the X18 around Christmas. The X32 rack would be a candidate were it not for the steep learning curve compared to the others. Good luck with your decision process and remember the devil is in the details, and then there's Murphy.
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WK154
Thank you for your reply. :thu:
Yeah, I'm going to keep investigating the other mixers for some time. After some more pondering about my DL, I am really leaning towards the iOS update that pooched everything. Everything was running fine up to that point. But in the real world a minor update shouldn't do that. Of course if you look at the history of what an update can do to Windows, I guess I really shouldn't be too surprised though. :o
I guess that I could've tried to run the DL wirelessly only, no docked iPad. That might have remedied the situation until if and when the next MF update came along and might have fixed the issues. But, if you can't trust your gear in a live important situation...
It's time to just "Keep on keeping on" for now. 8) So I'll be lurking here and still posting from time to time. :)
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Km. I have left the Toronto area for good. But last time I went to Cosmo music they had the x32 rack. And the others as well. They actually seem to carry a lot of things others don't. Work a good deal. Or take a trip to the US.
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Jerrylee;
I've actually dealt with Cosmo a few times in the past, and they have quite a good selection of product. Their new location is amazing! I'll definitely check them out regarding mixers. Thank you for the reminder! :thu: 8)
My significant other and myself are going on a cruise out of Ft Lauderdale this coming July, maybe I can arrange to do a little shopping before the cruise, if time permits >:D :) Time to look up music stores, heh heh heh!!!
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I'm from palm beach county. There are some Samash stores and guitar centers in the lauderdale area. There is also a store called MAE in Davie Florida. Not sure if they carry them yet. Hopefully there is a good guitar center coupon available when you are here. FYI a rack fits pretty well in a carry on. I was originally flying with it. Another thing to keep in mind is that the Canadian $ is about 10% less than US. But tax here is only 6% vs 13% and the x32 is a lot cheaper here to. And a coupon makes it even cheaper. If you know someone here you can order it online with no tax and free shipping. And match a coupon. That's what I do.
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Jerrylee;
Thank you so much for the suggestions. :thu: I will definitely keep them in mind. I'm gonna copy and paste this into a Word doc for safe keeping and reference!!! 8)
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Been looking at the other DL contenders out there, checking out software, downloaded Presonus and x32 apps to iPad. Boy am I ever really spoiled by Master Fader. It just seems so much easier to use than the others for a very mature (old) :P person like my self. x(
I'm gonna keep playing around with the X32 app some more to see if I can get more familiar with it. :eek: The QSC TouchMix does look interesting, but might have to wait for some time to get my paws on one. The adventure continues!! ::)
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Km with the popularity of the x32 line one would be a fool to go any other route. It is hands down the number one selling pro mixer in the world. It is quickly becoming the new standard and rider friendly.
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JerryLee are you sure you aren't being paid under the table by Behringer? You are a running ad for a product that probably won't be in the running by next year. (With so many different digital mixers coming online, it's only a short time before all the current ones are considered passe') I'm still using my 2010 MacBook Pro. Not just because it cost $1200 when I bought it, but because it's still functional and does everything I need and I still get about 7 hours of battery life with my typical use. (There aren't very many PC laptops getting 7 hours brand new, let alone still getting more than 3 hours when 4 years old.) I have gotten 13 hours of battery use during the first year I had it. Was using it as a background music source with the screen dimmed totally. Bet I could get at least 10 hours today doing the same thing. Anyway, I'm not quick to toss something away. I'm sure hoping that I get the same level of use with the DL1608 that I got with my MixWiz. (Bought in 2008 and sold last month with everything still working.)
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KM, contrary to all the hype, I think any buyer would be foolish not to consider products from all manufacturers.
What suits everyone else, might not suit you.
Popular and cheap are considerations but longevity, customer service, build quality, peace of mind, reliability, ease of use and resale value shouldn't be forgotten.
I didn't put sound quality on that list as that's a given and obviously a personal choice.
Check out other user forums to see who is having problems, even simple ones like connecting up a router or taming noisy outputs. Is a user forum "busy good" or "busy bad"?
In your earlier posts you compared the sound of your Zed to the DL and initially you heard something you didn't like. I suggest you try before you buy. ;)
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I definitely have nothing to do with behringer. I am just absolutely loving my x32 rack. What I look for in a board is one that does everything I need and want, and just a little more. The rack does everything I need. And a ton more. If I never had to buy another mixer again I would be very happy. The only thing I would change it for is if another x32 is released. One with only ins and outs, including all network I/o as well. Something I could just throw on a stage as a stage box. That would be awesome. But I have to admit I have found myself making use of the front panel sometimes. Not yet at a live gig. But when I need to do something at home and don't want to have to deal with the iPad.
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I may start another fire here, but are all these new digital/iOS/any other tablet/laptop controllable mixers really really ready for mainstream use at this time? The idea is amazing for such lower prices, but... Some may attribute my comment to the fact that due to either my fault or a localized quantum singularity appearing next to my DL/iPad on the last day of a 30 day return policy kinda strange. Or is there really something to consider here? I actually really do love tech.
Another example...
Last nights gig with my FR-7X and BK-7M backing module started out all of a sudden with the right hand keys playing a half tone lower than the accompaniment. It was working perfectly during my setup but glitched when starting my set. A quick complete power off and reboot corrected the issue and the gig went off without further issues. Quantum singularity indeed! My mixer of choice for this setup is a Mackie 402-VLZ3, all analog and sooo reliable. This time it was Roland tech that glitched. No, I am definitely not going to dump my Roland gear due to one problem. :P Contrary to popular belief. :)
I guess this all boils down to tech being so sophisticated that it just naturally acts up now and again. ???
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Yes I call that the "DOS" syndrome. We've all been conditioned to reboot (power of and on)when some digital item doesn't work. Bill Gate's contribution to computers, way to go Bill. It's most likely the reason not many report it as a problem if they can even figure out it's a problem. ::)
KM stay away from that Aurora Borealis and all those emanating Quarks. :)
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WK154;
I remember writing batch file menus and login scripts way back in the day, even 8 inch floppy disks and drives. The ole command line was the best! ::) Okay how about hard drives that took up tons of computer room space? Must be old or something. x( ;) Maybe if I had this on my music stand things would have gone better?
http://roshipotoshi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/episode-4-the-beast-below-mkv_0010585591.jpg?w=408&h=228
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Hold onto your chairs!
After all my posting, particular experience with, and subsequent return of my DL, a whole lot of questions and research about other digital mixers and trying other virtual fader control software, I find myself being drawn back to the DL1608. For me, the software (Master Fader) was and is the easiest and most comfortable to operate. I really did give the other software a complete run through albeit actually having the hardware to go along with it. Maybe just maybe another Master Fader update will improve the sync/poor communications issues?
And at this point, you’re all thinking, HUH??? ARE YOU NUTS?? You should have just kept your original one and waited!!!!! Maybe I am and just a little bit (please fill in your own colorful metaphors here). But I guess it’s “Better the devil you know, than the Devil you don’t” Before it crapped out due to operator error (updating without thinking to iOS 7.1.1) or something else, it was excellent. It was a known quantity even with some possible minor and sometimes irritating issues that have only befallen a few of us. I also just may have suddenly fallen into a parallel universe. But I am seriously considering jumping back into the DL1608 Phenomenon once again.
Okay, okay, if you’ve fallen on the floor from laughing so hard from reading this, you can now get back into your chairs. Just put this post down to sudden insanity (maybe already insane long ago) on my part. No I have not been smoking any funny stuff either.
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Being that most of us that updated to ios 7.1.1 without any issues, maybe you just had a lemon DL1608. If I had a particularly bad experience with a single model of car, I doubt that I would indict the entire brand for a lemon.
And I have never been laughing. What happened to you is unfortunate, and I can see how returning the unit while you were able was the right move for you. If you jump in again, I hope your experience is closer to mine. (Pretty good.) Got to admit that QSC's mixer looks good. Don't know if the price would scare me off, but I don't change mixers very quickly and fully expect to be using this mixer for the next few years. Whatever you end up doing, we only want you to have a good experience from now on. (You are due.)
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Your off your meds again! :) Anxiety attacks can be costly when you don't know what to do with the two iPad 2's. Here's my suggestion. Buy the Audio Tools suite from Studio Six play with it until the QSC Touchmix hits the stores and buy it. I'm not sure we could handle another round of DL saga. ;)
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Buying a brand new product without a history could easily be a repeat. Got to admit it looks good, but it will take at least a year for the bugs to be exposed or cured after its release. There are no perfect answers here, and anything you do has some level of risk. (Even purchasing a MixWiz has a small amount of risk.) So do what you want. You will always have at least verbal support from here.
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WK, Yes I am definitely a channel strip short of a complete mixer :P I will give your good suggestion more thought. And Wynnd, thank you for your kind words too. After all my wacky posts, I think a new platform would be the way to go, even if it is an unknown. But from what I have heard and researched, QSC products in general are respected in the industry. Feature wise the TouchMix looks good. It retails here for $1449.00 as opposed to the DL for $1099.99
As for changing brands believe it or not, my non powered and powered speakers have and always will be Yorkville. If Yorkville ever made a digital mixer, I wouldn't hesitate. But I am willing to give a brand another chance however, and thusly my post about possibly going back to the DL once again even though I had an unreliable unit. If there wasn't an upcoming gig depending on the DL, I just might of hung on to it. And there was the last day of a 30 day return policy motivation too. ;)
To good experiences, gear or other wise, this forum has been a very good experience since I joined. Everyone has been great. :thu: I respect all comments and suggestions. ;) Thank you one and all once more!! :)
WK; To quote you " I'm not sure we could handle another round of DL saga" Neither could I :lol:
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I base my recommendation on the fact that Mackie has now known about this problem for over a year and unfortunately has done nothing about it. That's not a good reaction for any company looking for referrals or repeat business. Don't get me wrong, others have had similar problems but they were fixed with a high priority. This is the same attitude Phonic chose with their digital mixer line. Manufacturers support is essential especially if they refuse to provide support documentation (schematics and code). Mackie's track record with digital mixers has been less than stellar and apparently is continuing with that trend. What are the chances of seeing a solution to this. If they assigned an engineer to this, I believe they already know the answer and it's too expensive to implement so their willing to ride it out. Yes this is a lemon product and I'll venture a guess that the solution offered will be the DL II upgrade.
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WK;
Just emailed Mackie with my past issue with the DL and got a reply from them in about an hour, here's a piece of the reply that supports your last post to me.
"We have had no reported issues from thousands of users with iOS7.1.1. It has been out for some time and we have tested it fully with Master Fader. I’d obviously like to know more about the problems you discovered but I don’t believe they were caused by iOS7.1.1"
I'm glad they are at least reading and responding quite fast though.
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Yes and they also replied to dozens of users on the sync problem on Facebook and are "working on it" and they replied to me after some prodding on the pin one problem but none have been fixed. :( See thread:
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=383.msg2533#msg2533
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Jumping in to this thread with an obvious first post on this forum, motivated by a desire to share personal experiences pertinent to the OP`s original and evolved topic.
I currently own and use in live sound support scenarios a DL1608, Behringer X32, Presonus SL1642, and therefore have opinions of the aforementioned derived from experiences in the field.
Purchased the Presonus on 01/12 upon anticipated release and installation of Universal Control 1.53 and the corresponding 1.2 iPad Remote app, as well as Capture 1.xx. Have since upgraded to Universal Control 1.7/ SL Remote 1.4./ Capture 2.1.
Purchased the Behringer on 01/13 upon anticipated releaseand installation of firmware update version 1.12/1.13 and the corresponding iPad Mix app. As of this post have not upgraded to 2.xx.
Purchased the Mackie on 02/14 upon the anticipated release and installation of the Master Fader 2.1 iPad app/firmware combo, which is current today.
All three were upgraded after purchase to the aforementioned revisions with no major issues in the process. I use PC`s, a variety of Thinkpads, for the Presonus and Behringer units, and Apple for offline editing work. Own iPads 1(ios 5.xx) which are relegated to docked DL use & iPad2(ios 6.xx) which are the mainstay for remote work.
Use the latest Airport Express routers for the DL, and Belkin Dual Band routers for the X32/SL1642.
All three purchases were used items from local Guitar Centers that are covered by their 30 day satisfaction guarantee which allowed for a reasonable time opportunity for a thorough assessment as well as a guilt and hassle-free return if necessary.
The primary motivation and expectation of these three mixers was the remote mixing capabilities, therefore the remote app/software interface is key to the experience. Sixteen mic channels was the required amount with six aux outs. Recording of any channel count was NOT a deciding factor, however a welcome provision though.
So drum roll......
I absolutely adore the Dl1608 form factor and near tactile-less interface, which I echo the current `class of one`reference. Sounds wonderful (except...FX), works as expected, and is just as near perfect for reducing load in and real estate footprint.
Whats not to like? That near useless verb FX. If I could be granted my magic lamp one wish for the DL it is for a MUCH improved and useable verb selection. I work around this deficiency by incorporating an Alesis Nanoverb and giving up one in & out. The new 2.1 was crucial in my decision to buy in, what with the significant improvements all around (except.....FX). EASY to access the graphic eq`s in combat audio. With o-rings for the trim pots, an APE and Nanoverb packed nicely into a 17" laptop bag, this makes for a fun and capable little piece. I don`t have a need or desire for multi-track recording on this so I am VERY biased in my desire and advocacy for improved effects, particularly the reverb.
As for the X32, I can honestly echo the slogan `A Game Changer`. The offering of models, ins/outs, computer/remote devices & platforms choice/preference, card slot expansion choices, personal monitoring via hardware offerings, conceivable intra/inter connected system configurations all via cat5/6, recording capabilities via USB stick or computer, all at the advertised M.A.P.`s is nothing short of such described, a game changer.
And the FX offerings! Wow! If someone can not find something to work with to any degree of satisfaction, well then I must have a very low standard of expectations. For work that allows the footprint or requires the facilities of this unit I challenge any others as contenders will not, can not, ultimately match the price/capability/performance/ combination.
Recording two-track to a USB stick is very convenient, and preferable at the implemented WAV file format for my use. Multi-track is painless to a USB/FiWi connected PC running Reaper or similar. Simple enough to access the graphic eq`s without computer or iPad. Here as with the Mackie, output sounds wonderful, IMVHO.
Now in regards to the Presonus, the best attribute is the included and rather fully implemented software consisting of Universal Control, Studio One Artist, Capture, SL remote and Qmix. My experience with installation and use of Capture for online recording in live sound support scenarios and subsequent offline playback/editing in Studio One has been exemplary. This aspect of even this pre-Active Integration model sets it apart from the two other described mixers.
In addition, I find the other outstanding feature to be that with a UC connected computer, the scene storage and recall is extremely easy to use, particularly the channel parameter duplication.
Now the sound I find to be good, but not as satisfying as the Mackie or Behringer. Not terrible mind you, just not as preferable. As for the FX, it is a toss up for the worst between the Presonus and the Mackie as far as the quality. At least the Mackie scores points for the visual graphic interface, however as small a consolation it may be.
But the WORST is the solo function and gain structure/summing through channels/subs/mains. This is well described, though possibly buried within the Presonus forum. And beware (be aware) of the fader locate function. To this I should describe my method of use: board tape to block the faders movement in a full bottom position, therefore requiring all mixing and adjustments via iPad and PC.
I do not use/need/allow personal remote mixing via the iPhone apps for musos/performers and therefore cannot offer any viable feedback from experience other than just the simple curious shop test which proved functional for all three platforms.
What I find to be of the greatest focus is the remote app layout and work environ, since nearly 100% of my mixing takes place via this approach. And to this I find Master Fader to be unquestionably the easiest of the bunch to approach. Not only of the three described but ANY of all others unmentioned that I have downloaded and toyed with on to an iPad. It is this ease of use combined with the form factor that I find so satisfying and FUN, regardless of its limitations of in/outs, manual pres, useless verb, lack of expandability and multi-track recording. For a quick and easy get in, set up, power and go, I find the DL1608 hard to beat. Had this been available with Master Fader 2.xx in 2012 I would not have purchased the Presonus instead choosing the Mackie. I did not, do not need/want faders, static or moving and the Mackie fills this slot so well. I believe the Mackie is the easiest to transition to for a new to digital person of these three mixers, contrary to Presonus`s claim of superb ease of transition to their mixers.
I actually believe the Presonus the more difficult of the three to adjust to and realign ones approach. I have come to determine via my use and internet postings, that the ideal candidates for the StudioLive mixers are HOW`s, Middle/High School auditoriums, performance theaters, or any where that allows for a stationary FOH position and recurring personnel. It is not an ideal mobile mixer. Just try getting to the graphic eq`s with out a computer or iPad in mobile combat audio and you may then come to understand where I am coming from.
The Behringer is not difficult, but allows for different approaches for signal flow and manipulation and therefore requires a deeper investigation and time spent. But the time spent is rewarded in dividends of options for audio routing, manipulating, and board personalization.
I use the X32 on a weekly basis parked in a club environment for nearly the entirety that I have owned this with so far a near perfect and STELLAR performance record. The USB two track recordings have been very impressive to the few who have heard. Simple enough to access the graphic eq`s in combat audio without computer or iPad.
Regards to support, email to Presonus with quick response(-24 hours) and lengthy voice wait time(-30 mins) with satisfactory answers. Voice to Behringer was short wait
(-5 mins) with attentive support and answers. Voice to Mackie was short wait time(-10 mins) with similar attentive support and answers. I have been fortunate to not require service in the form of return to manufacture so thankfully I have nothing to share in regards to such.
Plan is for purchase of a X32 Rack now with the recent 2.xx firmware allowing for full control via remote device, however I will allow for the kinks to work out over a bit of time and as I have no pressing immediate need. Though this may change due to something prettier walking by! A nice scenario that works really quite nice is incorporating a Wacom style tablet/convertible PC running X32-Edit wired or wireless for remote location mix/edit work with or without any of accompanying remote devices such as Android tablets, iPads and midi HUI`s. The Wacom equipped PC`s allow for very precise control over the parameters on X32-Edit.
To the aspect of mic pre`s sound, this is of lesser focus for my needs. I found equipment manufactures have upped the bar in the pre`s dept in no small part due to the likes of Mackie`s jump into the field with VLZ equivalent way back when, affording us with the high headroom before mash & clip at an every person`s price that helps provide one of the basic ingredients to make lemonade out of lemons. I have never had any performer or audience member comment negatively `hey, the sound sucks, gotta be your inferior mic pre`s`.
With so much dependent on one piece of gear, redundancy is critical. Two of everything or alternatives is key to being prepared to avert or rebound from a bad gig due to equipment failure. Computers, iPads & remote external power charging, routers, power supplies for computers, router, DL1608. If budget allows, two equivalent mixers of choice or alternative. Even an analog desk has been my back up in the truck as well as the venue where the X32 is parked. This same approach applies to any DSP wonder box
where any number of processes/duties and channel counts have resulted in reduced rack real estate, but increased the dependency and liability in the event of device failure, e.g. your DriveRacks, UltraDrives, OmniDrives, Proteas, SoundWeb, Symnet, etc.
This relatively new and evolving market of even more affordable, remote wonder mixers is bound to grow in ever more choices and capabilities with an increase in ultimate power to dollar value, but with the TO BE EXPECTED devaluation of the existing base in the field. The highly anticipated TouchMix and X18 are the obvious examples of such as even I shall look forward to demo these two upon release to retailers.
In direct response to the OP, Keyboard Magic, assuming most of us are generating income from our endeavors, dollars into most gear is not an investment, as it devalues. Gear put to work is an investment in ourselves and related biz. If this applies to you then I suggest at some point you will need to`Just Do It`. Make a decision and jump in. When, and I believe you will, I will wager the result will be a satisfying experience. Best to you in your decision, and respect to all. Jim
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James91104
Welcome to the forum!!
Nice in depth post indeed :thu: You have an extensive background and a lot of experience and I appreciate you sharing this. I have an extensive background as a playing musician with moderate exp. in audio. My audio needs are a lot less than they used to be, although I require excellent sound quality. Without getting too boring in the details, my DL was good, etc. etc. After all is said and done I have decided to go with the upcoming QSC TouchMix 16. I need a fairly powerful very compact wireless mixer.
Good reliable gear is important to me even if I only gig 2 or 3 times a week. I am looking forward to the QSC experience. And...
Welcome once more and thank you for your excellent post. :thu:
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James, take no notice of the forum's resident grouch, I did read your post :)