Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: Harpman on April 01, 2014, 04:30:28 PM
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I'm currently using my iPad 3 docked to the DL1608 and my iPad Air for FOH. I just got an iPad mixing app (Auria) working with my 2 Focusrite 18i20's and it sees all 16 channels. I'm using a splitter snake where 16 channels go to the DL and 16 go to the Focusrite units connected via an ADAT cable. Auria doesn't see all my channels 9-16 (ADAT) when using the iPad 1 (works great with the iPad Air). With that being said, I want to use my iPad 1 for FOH connected to my Airport Express Wifi. That way I can use the iPad Air with Auria to do multitrack recordings at gigs. Any thoughts?
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I still have one Harpman, it works ok but much better when undocked:)
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I'm still using my iPad 1, running 2.1.1, docked as a backup. It still works well although, when I use it wirelessly, I notice a slight delay in the response from the mixer compared to the iPad Mini that I use FOH. I will probably swap it out with my wife's iPad 2 when MF no longer supports it since she has GAS for the iPad Air. That being said, if I only had the iPad 1 right now, I would still be content using it wirelessly for the gigs I cover. I use an Apple express for WiFi and it's performed flawlessly for the last 17 months.
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I thought that I was a gear junky but you're passing me by. Did Kat at Auria fix your issue with iPad 1 or was it only with 3 ? I still don't see the need for the splitter snake is there a catch?
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Bill, you know me. I'm a technology junkie much like you :lol:. Kat is actually with Focusrite and IMHO, the best they've got in support. She seems to think it's an Audio Core issue on the iPad 1. It's interesting that the Audio Core settings show up in Auria when connected to my iPad Air, but not on the iPad 1. I will tell you something, if I could design a powered hub that can both charge the iPad and also be able to connect the interface side to my 18i20, I would get rich and retire tomorrow. My worry is using Auria on my iPad Air and worrying about draining it during a 3-4 hour gig. I would naturally turn off all the normal stuff (i.e. Bluetooth, WiFi, Notifications, etc.). Going to try this scenario with The Acoustic Groove this Thursday and Friday and see how it works out. Curious to see how much the Auria app draws. I turned off all the FX in Auria and running dry. I can level and fix FX post production. I think I have the most compact rig (My Studio-On-Wheels) now that I can take to live gigs and record.
Thanks Oddeotek and Robbocurry for your input. Yeah, I wouldn't chance docking the iPad 1 and I agree, the Apple Express has been flawless for me as well.
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I thought that I was a gear junky but you're passing me by. Did Kat at Auria fix your issue with iPad 1 or was it only with 3 ? I still don't see the need for the splitter snake is there a catch?
In regards to the splitter snake, yes there is a catch. I don't have to rely on the DL for anything. No daisy chaining, worries about Pre's overloading, etc. Seismic Audio makes the splitter snake (http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/rack-mount-16-channel-splitter-snake-2-15-trunks/p/SARMSS-16x1515#.UzsNE_ldV8E) Got it for $183 with discount and free shipping!
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I have what your describing for the 30 pin connector and of course there is a 30 pin to N connector converter (Yuk!). I would imagine that by now they also have a N to USB/SD powered hub. The unit uses the Apple wall wart for a power supply.
Here is the link to the item.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-3-Port-Hub-Camera-Connection-Combo-Kit-Card-Reader-Adapter-for-iPad-2-3-NEW-/230994161528?pt=US_Memory_Card_Readers_USB_Host_Adapters&hash=item35c8532f78
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I still use an ipad1. Sometimes I use it on it's own mic stand off to the side so I can use it as a second mixing point. Other times it just sits as a backup. Mackie will have to do some pretty impressive updates as it will cost me $200+ for a backup ipad if I adopt future releases of masterfader. At this point the only thing I see that would entice me would be multi-track recording, which is absolutely possible, the #1 requested enhancement, and one Mackie will need to stay competitive with the other small "tablet" mixers, which will all have the capability, either out of the box or by expansion.
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I thought that I was a gear junky but you're passing me by. Did Kat at Auria fix your issue with iPad 1 or was it only with 3 ? I still don't see the need for the splitter snake is there a catch?
In regards to the splitter snake, yes there is a catch. I don't have to rely on the DL for anything. No daisy chaining, worries about Pre's overloading, etc. Seismic Audio makes the splitter snake (http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/rack-mount-16-channel-splitter-snake-2-15-trunks/p/SARMSS-16x1515#.UzsNE_ldV8E) Got it for $183 with discount and free shipping!
I trust you're only using one of the phantom power sources!!! DL or Focusrite or none at all.
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Any minor update from now on will blow all iPad 1's out of the water. Since Feb all new posts to the Appstore must be compiled with the new development environment no exceptions! Which eliminates iOS 5 or earlier.
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Abzurd multitracking will never be possible with the current dl. It's a hardware issue. Not software or firmware based. I won't debate that here. It has been beaten to death.
Gio, do not rely on Auria to record a long gig or even a set. I have used it at gigs, rehearsals, and recoding many times. If you record too long it will get stuck in processing and crash. You will lose everything you have recorded. I have made this mistake a few times. And with an iPad 3, 4, and air. I forgot all about it the last time I used Auria. I was playing a gig and recording 8 channels. Just me and a drummer. I recorded our first set. Was using an iPad 4 this time. Set was about 40 minutes. I stopped the iPad and realized right away there was going to be an issue. Because of the past lesson I forgot. It started its processing and I dared not to touch a thing. After about 20 minutes it crashed. First set gone. I knew better as this is the norm. I recorded the rest of the evening but I made sure to stop Auria after each song. I just start recording a short time later. I recorded two 40-45 minute sets no issues as long as I stopped between each song or 2. Any more than 10 minutes straight and I would worry. Trust me because if you don't you will regret it.
Remember Auria was deigned to record songs. It's a daw. How long are songs, 2-6 minutes? It's not meant for long linear recording. It was never designed that way. For long recording I would use a two track recorder like tascam PCM recorder. I recorded over 2 hours at a gig no problem. Actually one problem. I forgot to stop it on a break. That's why it was 2 hours. Doh.
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Newsflash!! Mackie announced today that they will have multichannel recording ability in their next release of Master Fader. Ben "Olswangatang" Olswang the product manager for the DL series of mixers admitted today that the overwhelming requests and the fierce competition offering this feature forced them to implement it. Delivery of the software will of course follow Mackie's established procedure for all new software, sometime sooner or later. The elusive DL bug of "loss of sync and white noise music" has now been officially named as project Sasquatch. It will be solved as soon as they have physical evidence of it's existence.
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... and a happy April Fools day to you too :) .
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Killjoy >:D
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Lol ;D
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Newsflash!! Mackie announced today that they will have multichannel recording ability in their next release of Master Fader. Ben "Olswangatang" Olswang the product manager for the DL series of mixers admitted today that the overwhelming requests and the fierce competition offering this feature forced them to implement it. Delivery of the software will of course follow Mackie's established procedure for all new software, sometime sooner or later. The elusive DL bug of "loss of sync and white noise music" has now been officially named as project Sasquatch. It will be solved as soon as they have physical evidence of it's existence.
Now that's funny and one of the best April fools jokes I've seen!!
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Abzurd multitracking will never be possible with the current dl. It's a hardware issue. Not software or firmware based. I won't debate that here. It has been beaten to death.
Gio, do not rely on Auria to record a long gig or even a set. I have used it at gigs, rehearsals, and recoding many times. If you record too long it will get stuck in processing and crash. You will lose everything you have recorded. I have made this mistake a few times. And with an iPad 3, 4, and air. I forgot all about it the last time I used Auria. I was playing a gig and recording 8 channels. Just me and a drummer. I recorded our first set. Was using an iPad 4 this time. Set was about 40 minutes. I stopped the iPad and realized right away there was going to be an issue. Because of the past lesson I forgot. It started its processing and I dared not to touch a thing. After about 20 minutes it crashed. First set gone. I knew better as this is the norm. I recorded the rest of the evening but I made sure to stop Auria after each song. I just start recording a short time later. I recorded two 40-45 minute sets no issues as long as I stopped between each song or 2. Any more than 10 minutes straight and I would worry. Trust me because if you don't you will regret it.
Remember Auria was deigned to record songs. It's a daw. How long are songs, 2-6 minutes? It's not meant for long linear recording. It was never designed that way. For long recording I would use a two track recorder like tascam PCM recorder. I recorded over 2 hours at a gig no problem. Actually one problem. I forgot to stop it on a break. That's why it was 2 hours. Doh.
JL, thanks for the info. I just recorded 3 channels for 20 minutes straight. Used 1% of battery and 418MB of storage. If calculations were perfect :), 4 hours would be 12% of battery and around 5GB of storage for a 4 hour gig. The reason I want to use Auria is so I don't have to lug my laptop with me like I have in the past. I'm also running everything dry (no FX), that way I can take the .wav files into Sonar X3 post-production and add them there. We have 2 - 3hr gigs coming up this Thursday / Friday, so I will give it a go and report my findings. My issue with a 2-track recorder is you only get one shot at it. If I find later that the vocals aren't balanced, guitar is too hot, etc., I can't adjust it post-production. I already have a Tascam PCM recorder and don't use it for that reason. Auria is do to release another update including a bug fix that I had found regarding the preview.wav file and exporting to Dropbox.
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Gio I'm just trying to help. I have done a rehearsal which was 50-60 minutes and only 4 tracks. It worked. But I can tell you by experience that was a fluke. More often than not I have the issue I described. So if you are playing long night try to stop Auria as often as possible. Which iPad are you planning in using? The air? I would assume that would handle long recordings the best. Faster processing. But still wouldn't it suck to lose everything? Better safe than sorry. But if you want to do it as an experiment to see if it crashes or not I would love to hear your results. Also why would you record a 3-4 hour night straight without stopping it on breaks. I really don't think you, or your band, plays with no breaks in a 3-4 hour gig.
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JL, really appreciate all your great input. Yeah, will be the IPad Air and we do take breaks, so my plan is to stop in between.
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Gio just recorded a band last night. We were recording to a multitrack recorder. So I brought an iPad 4 to test things for ya. I always close everything but Auria. I recorded first for 35-40 minutes, 12 tracks, and as expected I lost everything. I did just under 20 minutes the second time and all was ok. I wouldn't dare risk more.
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JL, let me ask you, did your iPad 4 lockup? Did you run out of storage in the iPad. I've has that happen and there's nothing you can do but force close Auria and reboot the iPad. Tonight I'm recording, but it's not a show stopper if things go awry.
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Storage was fine. It is a 64gb with about 60 free. Yes I have experienced to iPad lockup too. But, as I have said, only with long takes. And restart has been necessary. I really don't want to go over 10 min. 20 is pushing it. It's really not hard to stop and start recording.
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Storage was fine. It is a 64gb with about 60 free. Yes I have experienced to iPad lockup too. But, as I have said, only with long takes. And restart has been necessary. I really don't want to go over 10 min. 20 is pushing it. It's really not hard to stop and start recording.
JL, correct, stopping and starting the recording is no problem, but will it create a new .wav file for each take. Audio 01-1.wav, Audio 01-2.wav and so on. Not a big deal if it does, because I can just append them in my Sonar X3 DAW. Their Export to Dropbox has issues and I wish there was a better solution than jailbreaking my iPad and using some kind of file manage (i.e. iFile). I think with a 32GB iPad with 16GB free, I should be okay to record 3 hours (broken into segments). What do you think? We are talking 3 vocal tracks, 2 guitar tracks and 1 harmonica track.
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JL,
I was curious to if you use any of the FX in Auria. I have all that turned off. Totally dry recording.
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Gio, only raw tracks. Zero processing. If you start and stop it will be a continuous file for the track. If you have one track and stop and restart 50 times it will be one track. Same for all tracks. One was just an example.
I just recorded me and my drummer throughout an entire night. Starting and stopping between each song and two breaks. (Didn't stop first set as I said earlier and lost it all.) It was 8 channels in. I transferred it to my computer and was 8 tracks of about 85 minutes. I then edit in studio one 2. Sometimes I will make a new song during a break to separate the sets
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Their Export to Dropbox has issues and I wish there was a better solution than jailbreaking my iPad and using some kind of file manage (i.e. iFile).
Just use iFunBox, it works fine without needing a jailbreak :) .
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Gio, only raw tracks. Zero processing. If you start and stop it will be a continuous file for the track. If you have one track and stop and restart 50 times it will be one track. Same for all tracks. One was just an example.
I just recorded me and my drummer throughout an entire night. Starting and stopping between each song and two breaks. (Didn't stop first set as I said earlier and lost it all.) It was 8 channels in. I transferred it to my computer and was 8 tracks of about 85 minutes. I then edit in studio one 2. Sometimes I will make a new song during a break to separate the sets
I'm missing something here? Take a look at the snapshot of Auria (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8brxexr820pyn2r/hltBxY8aT5). if I touch 1, 2 or 3 during recording it stops the recording. When I re-arm by hitting #3 and start recording (#2), I get multiple audio tracks (i.e. Audio 01-1, Audio 01-2, etc.
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I'll have to double check that. It's possible that my daw know which belongs where and pieces it all together for me. Or maybe it's the way I transfer it. Or a setting?
I would prefer each song to be its own track. It would help me seperate the songs quickly.
But if that's the case would it not mess with things like recording a vocal line, stopping where there is no vocal, and restarting when they are needed again? Which I have done. Yet all tracks sync up fine.
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I'll have to double check that. It's possible that my daw know which belongs where and pieces it all together for me. Or maybe it's the way I transfer it. Or a setting?
I would prefer each song to be its own track. It would help me seperate the songs quickly.
But if that's the case would it not mess with things like recording a vocal line, stopping where there is no vocal, and restarting when they are needed again? Which I have done. Yet all tracks sync up fine.
If my GF (Kepi) is on Channel 1 (Audio 01), it would just be a matter of appending all the takes (i.e. Audio 01-1, Audio 01-2, Audio 01-3, etc.). It least if something happened in Auria, I would still have the last take. Not a big deal since I slice and dice anyway when I work in Sonar.
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JL, So far so good. Did 30 minutes and stopped. Scared me for a minute while it was processing the project
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How many tracks? Be careful and smart or you may regret when it happens to you. As I said before, better safe then sorry.
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Oops, ran 45 minutes. No lockup. Sheesh!
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JL, 6 tracks
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Your tempting fate. Lol.
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Success!!
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No lockups!
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The gig total time was 2.5 hours (project time). I started and stopped approximately every 30 minutes, except once where I let it go about 40-45 minutes. JL, I know I'm attempting fate here :laugh:. The more Auria has to process, the chance of a lockup occurring. Took about 10 seconds to process the 40-45 minute set. Total consumption on my iPad Air was about 7GB. If I had to approximate a 4 hour gig with breaks, I'm looking at about 10GB and right now I have 15GB free with no projects.
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Their Export to Dropbox has issues and I wish there was a better solution than jailbreaking my iPad and using some kind of file manage (i.e. iFile).
Just use iFunBox, it works fine without needing a jailbreak :) .
I use Documents by Readdle free version and it can deal with 12 different sources plus iCloud to avoid the Apple jail. Their non-free app is an excellent PDF file handler if you need more.
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Their Export to Dropbox has issues and I wish there was a better solution than jailbreaking my iPad and using some kind of file manage (i.e. iFile).
Just use iFunBox, it works fine without needing a jailbreak :) .
I use Documents by Readdle free version and it can deal with 12 different sources plus iCloud to avoid the Apple jail. Their non-free app is an excellent PDF file handler if you need more.
The problem with most apps that I've run across is that they can't see the file structure (although Apple support says there isn't), so in order to copy the project folder off, the app would need to see all aspects of the file structure so I can drill down and file that folder. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing a small NAS device to a gig if Auria would put an option to "Export to NAS" via IP address. Wouldn't that be sweet ;D
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iFunBox running on a PC can see the file structure even on an un-jailbroken iDevice where an app on the iPad itself can't.
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I don't have Auria to try out file transfers or location but I use Documents to transfer VoiceRecord files directly to my server (NAS). No jailbreak required. I'll try iFunbox next time I currently use Syncios on the PC.
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Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear. I don't want to hook my iPad to a PC or a Mac to get the files off. If I have to bring my laptop to a gig, I'd just record directly to my DAW (Sonar X3) and forget about Auria. My laptop is an HP Envy 17.3" TouchSmart. Takes a little bit of a footprint.
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I don't have Auria to try out file transfers or location but I use Documents to transfer VoiceRecord files directly to my server (NAS). No jailbreak required. I'll try iFunbox next time I currently use Syncios on the PC.
I will check out Documents if it can access a NAS server directly and can see the Auria project files.
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Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear. I don't want to hook my iPad to a PC or a Mac to get the files off. If I have to bring my laptop to a gig, I'd just record directly to my DAW (Sonar X3) and forget about Auria. My laptop is an HP Envy 17.3" TouchSmart. Takes a little bit of a footprint.
Yes I understand what your objective is and that is to run, record and master your performances via iPad only. As a side benefit you should be able to transfer your files to a NAS or PC that is on a network (wireless). The issue right now is that Auria is not stable enough for substantial projects otherwise you could remain on the iPad to do the whole job. Therefor the need for Sonar X3. Eventually you will have the need to transfer the results to an external media and Documents will be able to deal with that.
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Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear. I don't want to hook my iPad to a PC or a Mac to get the files off. If I have to bring my laptop to a gig, I'd just record directly to my DAW (Sonar X3) and forget about Auria. My laptop is an HP Envy 17.3" TouchSmart. Takes a little bit of a footprint.
Yes I understand what your objective is and that is to run, record and master your performances via iPad only. As a side benefit you should be able to transfer your files to a NAS or PC that is on a network (wireless). The issue right now is that Auria is not stable enough for substantial projects otherwise you could remain on the iPad to do the whole job. Therefor the need for Sonar X3. Eventually you will have the need to transfer the results to an external media and Documents will be able to deal with that.
Documents by Readdle doesn't see the Auria projects or .wav files. Didn't have any issues with Auria and the mix came out rather well. Taking JL's advice and stopping and starting the recording helped quite a bit. It does break each track into sequential numbered parts, but I slice it up in Sonar anyway.
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So Auria has no provision for putting the wave files into a folder such as photo album, download etc.? How are you then exporting the files to the PC?
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So Auria has no provision for putting the wave files into a folder such as photo album, download etc.? How are you then exporting the files to the PC?
iTunes --> Under Apps --> Save to. No Auria doesn't have any provision except "Save to Dropbox"
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Since this is a separate recording solution anyway (Focusrite) and you're already familiar and have Sonar I would stick with the PC world and get a tablet size unit (non-ARM with USB) that can talk to the rest of the world without all this nonsense.
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Since this is a separate recording solution anyway (Focusrite) and you're already familiar and have Sonar I would stick with the PC world and get a tablet size unit (non-ARM with USB) that can talk to the rest of the world without all this nonsense.
Well, another 2K for the laptop I would be looking at. BTW, what mic did you bring when you came to see Kepi at Fazelli's? Was it the Heil PR35? Not happy with her Shure Beta 58.
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Nah under 1K tablet and yes it was a Pr35 but part of what we talked about was a head mic solution. Less hassle and less stage junk. You want to follow up on that evaluation? You're way past the X32 rack solution in terms of $ but You may still want to consider it if you can recover most of the past $. Just a thought. I could actually use you for a L1 vs K12 for my wife's chorus GAS spree since they got it wrong the last two times.
P.S. Politics is a big factor in this not tech but I'm tired of it.