Cacophony Forums
Unofficial Mackie User Forums => DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers => Topic started by: beno on July 24, 2014, 04:51:32 PM
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We've heard from a lot of you experiencing noise during iPad playback with your DL Series mixer (distortion, clipping, general noise). Of course, if anyone is experiencing a problem, we want to fix it. In this case, we are still not able to reliably replicate the problem to get to a resolution. We've experienced it, but can’t make it happen on demand, which is the only way to get a fix in place. So, we need to gather more information from you to figure out the unique combination that makes it happen.
If you believe you have experienced this issue, we ask that you fill out this brief survey:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/12HoJCmPv4cLdjXAwQ9hdx2YAxRm0cJR7QhwgrBMqDhg/viewform?usp=send_form (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/12HoJCmPv4cLdjXAwQ9hdx2YAxRm0cJR7QhwgrBMqDhg/viewform?usp=send_form)
You've been an amazingly supportive user community and we truly thank you. Thanks for your continued help to get to the bottom of this issue!
Ben Olswang
Feedback: DL1608.Feedback@mackie.com
Support: techmail@mackie.com
Toll Free: 800.898.3211
Phone: 425.487.4333
Blog: www.mackie.com/enews/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Mackie
Twitter: www.twitter.com/MackieGear
You Tube: www.youtube.com/user/mackietv
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OK everyone - be nice ;) . Ben, thanks for stopping by! Unfortunately I'm amongst the majority who haven't seen this issue at all. Just last night I was playing break music with the "Party Monster" app and recording with the "Voice Record Pro" app and all was perfect except for Master Fader disconnecting once (that I noticed). Interesting that the disconnections don't seem to affect any ongoing playback or recording. I mostly mix remotely anyways with a second iPad (a mini actually).
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Welcome BenO, I'm glad you finally reappeared for concerned customers even if it's not on a Mackie sanctioned Forum. You have my e-mail regarding this problem and I do hope to hear from your Engineering Dept. regarding my evaluation of the cause.
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Hey Ben,
I wish I could help but I've never experienced the issue with any of my iPads!
Hope the survey gets to the bottom of the problem for those who have it.
Good luck:)
Rob
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Me neither, mine is from October 2012 so could it be an issue with later production units?
I've just texted a mate the link to this thread as he's just bought a DL and experienced the problem.
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Nice to see Mackie taking an interest. Says a lot about their interest in customer satisfaction. Thank you beno!
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Ben, thanks for stopping by. I have the problem almost every gig and I only say almost because I am now eating a couple of channels and using headphone Jack out- I use the board every weekend and have yet to figure out any specific way to re-create the white noise. Feel free to message me if you'd like to speak directly or want specifics on my unit.
George
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Hi George, I'm sure Ben will speak for himself but it'd probably be quicker if you fill in the questionnaire, i suspect he's a busy guy and, I for one, and pleased that he's taking the time to post on here.
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Yes George, please fill out the survey at the link in the first post.
Thanks.
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BenO as promised my take on this.
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=705.msg6868#msg6868
I hope you find your "pattern", the IC industry never has a bad chip batch make it's way out the door :lol: If that's not the case then you need to latch on to DL's that produce this at a high frequency of occurrence. Good Luck.
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BenO another week has past and nothing but deafening silence has been heard from Mackie. What I find intriguing is that the ONLY place the survey form has appeared is on this forum. One would think that the most obvious place would be on your tech support page as well as on your Facebook and Twitter sites, in order to reach as many customers with this problem as possible.
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They've been working on it for months, expecting a miraculous announcement in a week is rather silly IMO. And any of the users having the issue who aren't terminally stoopid should have found there way here by now ;) :
https://www.google.com/search?q=dl1608+"white+noise" (https://www.google.com/search?q=dl1608+"white+noise")
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OK perhaps I wasn't specific enough I was referring to comments on my analysis that I've asked for 3 weeks ago. Probably in the wrong thread but since BenO is here I thought he may get the message. I have the perfect solution for him to become the hero :). If he can get his team to fix the problem by the time iOS 8 is released and then issue a new MF V2.x for iOS 8, he can blame it all on Apple who doesn't give a damn. We'll never know and go forward. What a PR coup. BenO the clock is running! ;D Tshu can doit amigo.
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Hey All,
Just want to thank everyone who took the time to reply to the survey. It has definitely helped us reproduce the noise more regularly. To share a bit of the data, we had 8 replies and no one can reproduce it on demand. We do think we are making a bit of progress with your help but as others have said, this is one of those bugs that will not be fixed overnight. But we are definitely working on it so if you haven't yet submitted your reply, please do so. And if you playback audio from your iPad and have NOT seen the problem, please respond to the survey as well and tell us what you are doing as this might be helpful as well.
Thanks
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Hey Beno let me help you with that since you're just looking to buy time. Get a returned DL 1608 serial # 2037399CRGA0231 it's the closest thing to on demand failure. It's also iBlokes unit that you already have the sound file for. So what if it's in Australia. Is it important to you then overnight it otherwise quit with the BS delay tactics. We've been there before.
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There is a bit of this being rare enough to consider that it's most likely a marginal component. (IC or whatever.) Why it's a bit intermittent is the real question. I really hate intermittent problems. I would rather things just break! (Bet that Mackie would too in this case.)
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Hey Beno let me help you with that since you're just looking to buy time. Get a returned DL 1608 serial # 2037399CRGA0231 it's the closest thing to on demand failure. It's also iBlokes unit that you already have the sound file for. So what if it's in Australia. Is it important to you then overnight it otherwise quit with the BS delay tactics. We've been there before.
Bit harsh there WK!
We don't know what constraints Ben has on his time and resources, results of your test may be beyond Ben's control.
Let's face it, with this "widespread noise problem" only eight people could be bothered to do the survey. If people experiencing the problem can't be bothered, why should Mackie?
Or......
Given the communal outpouring of indifference, it doesn't seem like such a big issue after all.
Maybe it's just a gust of wind blowing through the forum? ;)
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Robbo: Reality sometimes seems harsh but it is what it is. I won't pick apart his last response. He is however responsible for the Digital Mixer product line for Mackie and a widespread issue like this would certainly in my day warrant top priority for all resources at my disposal. There is a post on Mackie's Facebook by Sue Nami, a Irish activist (male) and he posted a link to a reviewers article on the DL806 where the noise issue surfaced during the review. Sue Nami stated that he would most likely be blocked or removed from the Mackie site for bringing this up. I'll see how long his comment will survive. Yes all issues pertaining to the noise and sync issues have disappeared from the Mackie Facebook site and everywhere else that Mackie has control over. The tech form of ethnic cleansing. This forum is a thorn in his side. So ask yourself why is he here? I have a fairly good idea.
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I'm beginning to think that it's a rare issue but with very vocal owners affected. Sure seems like Mackie might just win big by warrantying the affected units. Of course, if they can't reproduce the problem with the shipped back units, it could become a way to replace one good unit with another good unit. (Would people be stupid enough to do that? If you've got a good one, you had better hold onto it.)
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Wynnd: Just a little perspective based on posts on this forum, of the 5400 posts a minimum of 512 are about the noise/sync issue. There is also a bunch more in titles that have no hint about noise/sync. People have returned units only to receive one with possibly a little less frequent a problem. Then it simply becomes a matter of finding a workaround or selling. RR had it right when he inadvertently described the target market " And any of the users having the issue who aren't terminally stoopid should have found there way here by now ;) " Well they're not here, at least not as members.
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I can see why Mackie would remove comments from their website. A small number of users could affect their sales disproportionately. Can't blame them for looking after business. Everyone, private or corporate, edits their online presence to some degree.
Curiously, was the link to the survey posted on the Mackie FB page?
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I don't see Behringer editing their forum good or bad except for personal attacks and profanity, which I've yet to see. Ask BenO how he voted to eliminate the Mackie forum? The link is here.
http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/mackie-dl806-digital-mixer---by-craig-vecchione
I guess we're affecting their sales >:D.
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As I see it, the DL series mixer was such a departure from other mixers, digital or not, that people considering it were very likely to do research they wouldn't bother with on a more conventional looking mixer. I don't recall making any trek to Allen Heath before purchasing my MixWiz. I did some looking before buying the DL. (But I did have some serious G.A.S. because of it.) For me, this mixer isn't a mistake. (Not that I can easily afford to toss $1000 away.) I didn't own an ipad before, but I have two now. (OK, one's a mini.)
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Having sold my DL1608, due to these very issues, this is the first time I've seen this thread. I just submitted a response to the survey as I had double digit emails back and forth to Mackie support, including videos I'd made showing various issues of disconnection and noise. This was all from November of 2013. I also have given them the serial number.
My personal belief is that some ipads just don't like the mixer. My original Ipad running IOS5 was fine, but my Ipad3 never liked the mixer. It was worse with iOS7, but had issues with iOS6 as well. This iPad also does not like non Apple charging cables, refusing to charge with any of them. My phone and original ipad will charge with the same cables.
The person I sold the ipad to followed up with me and said he was getting along great with it.
FWIW, I had disconnect issues with both ipads, including when both were docked. Sometimes the drops were only a few seconds, but occasionally they were permanent and you either had to mix with the gain pots if you were in a hurry, or reboot the ipad.
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Just to expand on this forums stats a bit regarding the noise/sync problem. I found 12 topics with 576 posts and get this 18,359 views on this issue. Compensate for the 20 regulars that would be 240 views that still leaves over 18,000 guest views. I guess the word is getting around. :)
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Hey Beno,
I am 99 percent certain that the root of all (or at least most) of these intermittent problems that are being reported is from excessive ripple on the DL's fast charge circuit for the iPad when it goes into constant current mode. This causes random USB data errors and random problems. If you want a way to reliably reproduce it, run your iPad down to 20 percent and then start testing. Or better yet, find an iPad with an old faded battery, and it will likely stay on fast charge the whole time (so you dont have to worry about the DL charging it up and then the problem goes away)
If you can post (or PM me) a schematic of the DL's iPad charging circuit with the part numbers for the regulator chip and associated components (inductor, output cap, freq divider, etc), I can probably tell you what the problem is and give you a field mod. If you want to compensate me for the effort, I could probably turn it around in a couple days (no guarantees, depends on what we're starting with here, but I have some familiarity with similar circuits and the problems that they can cause). I understand from WK154 that the analog section where this circuit is located is a PIA to get to, so if you have any suggestions on how to get to these parts with minimal fuss, (or a service manual if one exists for the DL) that would be appreciated.
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Hey All,
Bringing this topic back tot he top. We believe we have fixed the white noise/distortion during iPad playback issue in Master Fader 3.0. Anyone who was regularly having the problem, please let me know how it's going. If anyone is still experiencing it or any other playback issues, definitely let me know at DL1608.Feedback@mackie.com.
Thanks,
Ben