Cacophony Forums

Other Digital Mixers => Behringer X-Air => Topic started by: ezywave on October 29, 2014, 01:27:11 PM

Title: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ezywave on October 29, 2014, 01:27:11 PM
I have been following this forum for a while now and got some good advice out of it, so thanks to you all.

As my first post, I'd like to share a link I just came across and which I believe wasn't discussed here yet.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XR12

It's a great video about the B.. lineup of smaller digital mixers, including rack mount/stage box versions. I like how it is presented by a knowledgeable engineer with a lot of interesting background info instead of the usual marketing blah.

I still like my DL16 and especially Master Fader a lot. Yet but I have to admit that 300 USD for a mixer with small stagebox form factor, high quality effects, built in router, remote connectivity to all kinds of devices etc. sounds really tempting, at least for smaller gigs...  I just wish Macke would have something similar at the same price point...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on October 30, 2014, 01:59:34 AM
Welcome to the forum !!!  :) I actually saw the videos, but not the Sweetwater link. Thanks for the link.  :thu: They sure look good and have a lot of features built in.  I don't have DL1608, but use the school's where I run sound. It works perfectly. And I agree that MF is one of the best apps around. Gonna wait to see how the new Berhies fair once they hit the market before making any decisions. I can use the DL when I need to, for other gigs. Master Fader 3 is supposed to bring some new stuff to the current DL line up. Can't wait to try it.  ;)

And once more welcome!

Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on October 30, 2014, 12:21:24 PM
Ar ye olde Berry video, it's old news that mate,

We just want a link to physically purchase one in Europe, I am told musikhaus.de get the first batch, I thought thomann would have trumped them to be honest.

Welcome to the forum

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on November 01, 2014, 10:09:14 AM
Just wonder how long it will be before they hit the real world. The x16/18 must be nearly two years in vapoursville now.....
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on November 01, 2014, 11:10:26 AM
Although they created the x12 especially for me. I think the arrival of the whole baby range will be affected due to the snag list. Removal of phono skts to create void for fx switch etc. relocate the ac inlet etc
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on November 04, 2014, 07:32:44 PM
I've messed about with the app a bit, much more "DL" like than the X32 app - but no scribble strips? That a non-starter for me.  I can't imaging they will ship it that way? Otherwise I don't see any downsides vs the DL1608 and a number of pluses:
1: Four FX
2: More tap points for the auxes
3: Multichannel recording

If Mackie doesn't at least announce adding another FX with reverb/chorus and better aux tap points I'm afraid I'll be moving on next summer. I don't see the DL32R being of much interest to anybody - everyone I know a step or two above me has gone X32 already. I can get a killer price on the X32 Rack - a friend of mine is a dealer :-) . I hope to see things more clearly sorted out by next summer...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on November 04, 2014, 07:42:12 PM
Mackie and everyone else lost the plot ages ago, small is the new big, for every user who wants 32 channels there are probably 100 dying for a decent compact desk,

The dl 806 should have been a 1u rack product, charging us for the form factor of the big brother, the plastic shims and mounting brackets, bloody cheeky if you ask me.

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on November 04, 2014, 08:30:20 PM
for every user who wants 32 channels there are probably 100 dying for a decent compact desk,
More like 1000 IMO. But I suppose if Behringer could overcome their past reputation to become the #1 selling digital mixer family Mackie has a shot too :) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on November 04, 2014, 08:39:16 PM
Oh yes, I am not writing them off, they can easily find the plot again, the dl concept was really good, they need to work that magic again, with a small product for a huge chunk of the market, solo duo trio with backing,

Digital mixer wi fi controlled, with a dedicated and useful ( not in the background) live playback app working in conjunction with the controller and the scenes.

Simples.

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on November 04, 2014, 08:45:22 PM
Imagine if you had the playback app and the mixer working together, so when you select a backing track the desk knows that you want reverb or echo or dry, and  knows you want chorus on channel 2 your acoustic guitar or whatever , without all that midi nonsense?

I don't thinK this has been done yet,

No question mark on my iPad, incredible.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on November 04, 2014, 08:55:06 PM
^ FYI since the control protocol of the X mixers is open it would be quite doable for someone to develop an app like that :) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on November 04, 2014, 08:59:57 PM
I wish I had the brains to do it, I am an ideas man only, I can't get the question mark to toggle on, but doing fine with these!!!!

...?.

Are its working now, cheers

Unlike the edit, wanting to copy everything arrrrrrgh


No cursor either


Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on January 22, 2015, 12:29:07 AM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on January 22, 2015, 08:34:03 AM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...

Is that march 2020?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on January 22, 2015, 11:12:24 AM
Don't hold your breath mate
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 22, 2015, 02:36:50 PM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...

Excellent! It looks a lot more rugged and more versatile than the DL1608. I hope it comes sooner than later for you.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on January 22, 2015, 04:12:28 PM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...

Excellent! It looks a lot more rugged and more versatile than the DL1608. I hope it comes sooner than later for you.
Behringer and rugged aren't two words I'd usually associate with each other, but in fairness, the XR series does look a bit rugged.
In the real world if they weigh slightly more than a paper cup, they may in fact stand a chance of surviving a few gigs.
Can't wait until 2020 to try one out lol.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 22, 2015, 04:47:46 PM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...

Excellent! It looks a lot more rugged and more versatile than the DL1608. I hope it comes sooner than later for you.
Behringer and rugged aren't two words I'd usually associate with each other, but in fairness, the XR series does look a bit rugged.
In the real world if they weigh slightly more than a paper cup, they may in fact stand a chance of surviving a few gigs.
Can't wait until 2020 to try one out lol.

For sure it looks like they can be hidden on or near the stage a lot easier than the DL32 or the DL1608.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on January 22, 2015, 04:54:58 PM
Behringer and rugged aren't two words I'd usually associate with each other, but in fairness, the XR series does look a bit rugged.

In it's favor, there are hardly any moving parts on the the thing. Only a headphone level control, a power switch, and a recessed selector switch for the network. So as long as the internal build quality is decent, it should be pretty reliable. moving parts tend to be a big weak link.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 22, 2015, 05:06:06 PM
In it's favor, there are hardly any moving parts on the the thing. Only a headphone level control, a power switch, and a recessed selector switch for the network. So as long as the internal build quality is decent, it should be pretty reliable. moving parts tend to be a big weak link.

Greg;

I for one am happy for you. It's always a fun experience to get new gear. And this one looks like a winner. Good Luck!  :thu:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on January 22, 2015, 05:13:39 PM
In it's favor, there are hardly any moving parts on the the thing. Only a headphone level control, a power switch, and a recessed selector switch for the network. So as long as the internal build quality is decent, it should be pretty reliable. moving parts tend to be a big weak link.

Greg;

I for one am happy for you. It's always a fun experience to get new gear. And this one looks like a winner. Good Luck!  :thu:
Yup, good luck with the new desk for sure :thu: :)
All joking aside, I would have a job for the two smallest XRs if the money was right here in the UK.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on January 22, 2015, 07:53:33 PM
I'd be reluctant to have ANY gear "naked" on the stage floor or in the van/trailer - even something like the X-Air units that are built for it. It wouldn't be long before they'd look like crap. With something rack mounted the rack takes the abuse and can be replaced if it gets too ugly - and it preserved the value of the items mounted within. Yah, I know you can rack mount the X-Airs but they aren't designed to fully utilize the 19" width of a rack like an X32 Rack does. At the very least you'd need a transport case for the X-Air and at that point you might as well have it be a rack IMO.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 22, 2015, 10:31:28 PM
I set up the DL 1608 on a milk crate next to a speaker stand, on the floor. The DL is off the floor to stop crap getting in to it and to allow air flow around the mixer. I would set an X18R up the same way. Never directly on the floor. You're just asking for troubles. I agree that you would need some sort of road case to carry it in, to prevent it from getting beat up in transport.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on January 24, 2015, 10:04:11 AM
What make is the milk crate?

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on January 24, 2015, 01:00:29 PM
What make is the milk crate?

 :)
Lol. This is my favourite. Very good s/n ratio ;D

http://m.indiamart.com/proddetail.php?i=6212991230
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 24, 2015, 02:40:55 PM
What make is the milk crate?

 :)
Lol. This is my favourite. Very good s/n ratio ;D

http://m.indiamart.com/proddetail.php?i=6212991230

Milk Crate? MILK CRATE!!??  I thought it was a Faraday Cage to ward off evil entities from other dimensions and stop white noise and loss of sync. Damn! Now I am disappointed!  :'(
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on January 24, 2015, 06:12:38 PM
In the old days, all you needed was gaffa tape and a few beer crates and you were on the way to stardom and all that , I feel for the young ones since all this tech and health and safety mullarkey kicked in, I think alluminium speakers stands  signaled the start of the end

 :)

Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on January 24, 2015, 07:01:59 PM
In the old days, all you needed was gaffa tape and a few beer crates and you were on the way to stardom and all that
So, you was one of them uppidy guys that used gaffa instead of duct tape? LOL
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 24, 2015, 07:05:01 PM
In the old days, all you needed was gaffa tape and a few beer crates and you were on the way to stardom and all that , I feel for the young ones since all this tech and health and safety mullarkey kicked in, I think alluminium speakers stands  signaled the start of the end

 :)

I have aluminum speaker stands and no beer crates. There goes that stardom thing down the drain.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 24, 2015, 07:06:06 PM
In the old days, all you needed was gaffa tape and a few beer crates and you were on the way to stardom and all that
So, you was one of them uppidy guys that used gaffa instead of duct tape? LOL

I use DUCK tape, thank you!  ;) Or if no duck tape available, at least 4 rolls of masking tape for one application gets the job done.  :laugh:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on January 24, 2015, 09:25:44 PM
[quote author ;D=RoadRanger link=topic=754.msg9884#msg9884 date=1422126119]
In the old days, all you needed was gaffa tape and a few beer crates and you were on the way to stardom and all that
So, you was one of them uppidy guys that used gaffa instead of duct tape? LOL

I use DUCK tape, thank you!  ;) Or if no duck tape available, at least 4 rolls of masking tape for one application gets the job done.  :laugh:
[/quote]
Tape? Tape?  You lucky sods.
We used to use bits of toilet covered in home made wallpaper paste. We'd also have to carry our gear on top of our heads whilst our manager threw bottles at us and breathed garlic in our general direction.
I have the photos to prove it too.... ;D
But they were good times, weren't they?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 24, 2015, 09:31:57 PM
[quote author ;D=RoadRanger link=topic=754.msg9884#msg9884 date=1422126119]
In the old days, all you needed was gaffa tape and a few beer crates and you were on the way to stardom and all that
So, you was one of them uppidy guys that used gaffa instead of duct tape? LOL

I use DUCK tape, thank you!  ;) Or if no duck tape available, at least 4 rolls of masking tape for one application gets the job done.  :laugh:
Tape? Tape?  You lucky sods.
We used to use bits of toilet covered in home made wallpaper paste. We'd also have to carry our gear on top of our heads whilst our manager threw bottles at us and breathed garlic in our general direction.
I have the photos to prove it too.... ;D
But they were good times, weren't they?
[/quote]

They certainly were, indeed.  ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on January 25, 2015, 10:29:33 AM
I am against animal cruelty, so it's duct tape or 3m gaffa tape for me, although I have  had some nasty residue with 3m, my landlord in Ibiza actually charged me for gaffa tape damage to his front gate when I left a note for the postman, dam stuff would not come off.

My first speaker stands where based on builders Akro stands, we where younger dumber stronger then in the 80's.

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: frede on January 30, 2015, 07:36:40 PM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...
When I placed my pre-order for the XR12 from B&H, the original due date was March 1, now it's expected availability is June 01, 2015. I'm not holding my breath, in June 2013 I pre-ordered the X16i (DL1608 clone) they cancelled the order last Febuary 2014 as it was "discontinued".
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on January 30, 2015, 07:39:01 PM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...
When I placed my pre-order for the XR12 from B&H, the original due date was March 1, now it's expected availability is June 01, 2015. I'm not holding my breath, in June 2013 I pre-ordered the X16i (DL1608 clone) they cancelled the order last Febuary 2014 as it was "discontinued".

I sure hope it shows up for you. 4 months is a long wait. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on January 30, 2015, 09:41:55 PM
For the record the only one of the X18/XR series stated to have been shipped is the X18R. The rest are yet to be shipped from China. :) They're expected Feb 9th., ten days from now earlier than my estimate a while ago.
Correction I said Feb 6th they're behind by 3 days :-[
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on January 30, 2015, 11:00:16 PM
For the record the only one of the X18/XR series stated to have been shipped is the X18R. The rest are yet to be shipped from China. :) They're expected Feb 9th., ten days from now earlier than my estimate a while ago.

Do you see anyone actually selling them? Over here their biggest retailer Thomann in Germany have only the x air x18 (no longer any mention of the x18) and that's now set for for march 6 (2020 :lol:), must be on a slow boat from China. This is the longest running vapourware nonsense (maybe should be re-christened airware) in history. Mackie have their many faults but at least we've been using the 1608 for 2 years and the 32 is here.
Still no word from any ipad4 or air users. Maybe there's just the five of us here? Lonely, lonely..............
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on January 31, 2015, 02:16:39 AM
No point in advertising product you don't have or are expecting delivery for, hence only the X18R or X18 Air X18R as it's now called.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on January 31, 2015, 09:16:33 AM
No point in advertising product you don't have or are expecting delivery for, hence only the X18R or X18 Air X18R as it's now called.
Except that they were last time I looked a couple of weeks ago also with an availability date in February or March.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on January 31, 2015, 09:16:56 AM
From a manufacturers point I think there is a lot  of point to be honest, but for a shop, that's just crazy,

the announcement of the clone Dl must have made many people stop and think about purchasing the actual mackie model, I know that is the case with me.

I did upset someone on the b forum when I asked were any of the baby x mixers at namm, of course they argued, well yes they were, but there is no footage of a physical working unit floating about, plenty of pads sitting on desks running that demo next to racks and such with no power or audio cables attached.

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on January 31, 2015, 04:44:46 PM
^ Anybody wanna buy a shoebox that you can put your iPad on for $599? LOL

BTW the lack of matrices and routable outputs on the X-Air series really drives one towards the X32 Rack instead...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on January 31, 2015, 07:10:14 PM
^ Anybody wanna buy a shoebox that you can put your iPad on for $599? LOL

BTW the lack of matrices and routable outputs on the X-Air series really drives one towards the X32 Rack instead...
You referring to the DL806 at $599 that just dropped another $100 to what I predicted a while ago and is now at $499. None of the Be.. are $599 They're 2,4,6 and 799. The DL1608 is slowly reaching my predicted $699 but hanging on at $799. :)
Does the DL1608 have route-able outs or matrices? ;)  I'm used to both on my 8 years old XAP800 but for small venues I find it overkill. What I'm looking forward to is the Dan Dugan implementation on open mics. So far only Yamaha is including it in their QL series and only for speech.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on January 31, 2015, 07:22:48 PM
I have a situation where I need a center fill and room delays to give even coverage at lower SPLs for a possible new venue I might be involved in. The 16 input channels of the DL1608 is fine. The X32 Rack is 1/2 the price of the DL32R - so I do hope they can get the DL1608 to what I need - but probably not due solely to "marketing" not wanting it to compete with the DL32R on features :( . Also the FX on the DL32R is only one mediocre reverb more than the DL1608 - they really gotta step that up to play with the big boys IMO.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on January 31, 2015, 07:28:48 PM
I have a situation where I need a center fill and room delays to give even coverage at lower SPLs for a possible new venue I might be involved in. The 16 input channels of the DL1608 is fine. The X32 Rack is 1/2 the price of the DL32R - so I do hope they can get the DL1608 to what I need - but probably not due solely to "marketing" not wanting it to compete with the DL32R on features :( . Also the FX on the DL32R is only one mediocre reverb more than the DL1608 - they really gotta step that up to play with the big boys IMO.
Sounds like a job for the DriveRack PA+ or similar units.
Oh yeah that XAP800 has delays and crossover capability as well and 12 outputs. At $8 + $7 for the new fan it's a bargain. Even at the typical $30-50 it's a steal.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 01, 2015, 10:35:15 AM
I think road ranger is implying that the current batch of baby x are as effective right now as a cardboard box with a pad on top.

at the end of the day it's horses for courses and when the new batch of products hit the shops, I think many guys will have a foot in both camps, I think both companies will and do offer one box suits all options but it's all going to come down to price,

Do you guys think the dl806 will be scrapped and the more is more philosophy will take over, or will mackie offer something to lure people away from what seems a ridiculously low priced x air 12?

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 01, 2015, 01:47:02 PM
I think road ranger is implying that the current batch of baby x are as effective right now as a cardboard box with a pad on top.

at the end of the day it's horses for courses and when the new batch of products hit the shops, I think many guys will have a foot in both camps, I think both companies will and do offer one box suits all options but it's all going to come down to price,

Do you guys think the dl806 will be scrapped and the more is more philosophy will take over, or will mackie offer something to lure people away from what seems a ridiculously low priced x air 12?

Kev
Behringer will always have a cheaper alternative, that's who they are.
No real reason for Mackie to discontinue the DL806 any time soon, drop the price maybe if a rival actually materializes....
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 01, 2015, 09:10:47 PM
Wonder how many DL806s they built and haven't sold yet?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 01, 2015, 10:00:47 PM
Wonder how many DL806s they built and haven't sold yet?
Sales price is usually a good indicator along with "Special Sale" events.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 01, 2015, 11:16:42 PM
Wonder how many DL806s they built and haven't sold yet?
Sales price is usually a good indicator along with "Special Sale" events.

More Sales, more new units sitting in the warehouse waiting, waiting waiting.  ;) I know Captain Obvious here.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 02, 2015, 01:36:12 AM
Wonder how many DL806s they built and haven't sold yet?
Sales price is usually a good indicator along with "Special Sale" events.

More Sales, more new units sitting in the warehouse waiting, waiting waiting.  ;) I know Captain Obvious here.  :)
Lol, at least they're likely to be in a warehouse, not still in the ether! (Captain Obvious returns ;))
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 02, 2015, 01:39:43 AM
......undoubtedly they will sell thousands if and when they arrive. They are a massive corporation.
Maybe something new will be all the rage by the time they hit the market.
I can't understand why it's taken them so long given their resources?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 02, 2015, 02:49:57 AM
Wonder how many DL806s they built and haven't sold yet?
Sales price is usually a good indicator along with "Special Sale" events.

More Sales, more new units sitting in the warehouse waiting, waiting waiting.  ;) I know Captain Obvious here.  :)
Lol, at least they're likely to be in a warehouse, not still in the ether! (Captain Obvious returns ;))

Would that be "ether or?"  Have you seen the Hotels.com commercials yet, with Captain Obvious? Very funny!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 02, 2015, 10:20:13 AM
At 650 or 729 depending on the socket, the euro price on thomann is still a bit high I think, for the 806"

I wonder how many 28 pin versions of the Dls are being sold right now?

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 02, 2015, 05:27:54 PM
Wonder how many DL806s they built and haven't sold yet?
Sales price is usually a good indicator along with "Special Sale" events.

More Sales, more new units sitting in the warehouse waiting, waiting waiting.  ;) I know Captain Obvious here.  :)
Lol, at least they're likely to be in a warehouse, not still in the ether! (Captain Obvious returns ;))

Would that be "ether or?"  Have you seen the Hotels.com commercials yet, with Captain Obvious? Very funny!
Will have to take a look for that ad, not on tv here afaik ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 02, 2015, 05:35:20 PM
At last!, a new post. I was starting to wonder if everyone had left the forum. Feeling abandoned.   :(  ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 02, 2015, 11:19:25 PM
At last!, a new post. I was starting to wonder if everyone had left the forum. Feeling abandoned.   :(  ;)
I'm still here ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 02, 2015, 11:20:47 PM
....and awake, just about  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 03, 2015, 12:36:51 AM
I'm glad you here, uh, there? Don't feel so lonely now!  :laugh: Forum was/is verrrrrrry sloooooooow. But thanks for replying. Me to. Awake sort of. Toronto got some snow last night into this morning. Started to use the electric snow blower (2 years old) and it died. Had to shovel in the AM and once more after snow stopped, 3 hours later. I think it's supposed to be good exercise though.  :eek:

Got in, sat down relapsed for a while and medicated on life.  ;) I'd better sleep really well tonight.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 03, 2015, 02:59:13 AM
At 650 or 729 depending on the socket, the euro price on thomann is still a bit high I think, for the 806"

I wonder how many 28 pin versions of the Dls are being sold right now?

Kev
That's easy ZERO they do make a 30 pin version that Thomann in Spain sells for 511 euros as of today.
http://www.thomann.de/es/mackie_dl_806.htm
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 03, 2015, 09:11:41 AM
I think everyone knew what I was suggesting, I have not actually counted the pins on my old lead, if it's thirty it's thirty, will wait for the Dl 806 lightening to hit 500 euros and then buy a couple I think.

How many pins does the Lightning have by the way?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 03, 2015, 09:59:25 AM
I think everyone knew what I was suggesting, I have not actually counted the pins on my old lead, if it's thirty it's thirty, will wait for the Dl 806 lightening to hit 500 euros and then buy a couple I think.

How many pins does the Lightning have by the way?
Hey Kev, I'll PayPal you the 22yoyos then you hit the button. Call it a late Xmas present 👍😉
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 03, 2015, 10:30:35 AM
I want to securely dock my pad mate, but that's very kind of you,

They need to stop messing about now and do the both versions for  the same price and throw in the adaptor free,

699 euros for the lightening version still,

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 03, 2015, 12:51:50 PM
http://www.thomann.de/gb/mackie_dl_lightning_dock_service_kit.htm

I notice there  are 13 pins on this adaptor, how  hard would it be to solder a trailing  lightening cable  in to the motherboard and do away with this adaptor all together,

Ok it' sounds mean, but if you had a couple of old DLS, paying 120 euros for two adapters would pee me off a bit,

Are  there any components on that little board, it does not appear so


Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 03, 2015, 01:53:28 PM
I want to securely dock my pad mate, but that's very kind of you,

They need to stop messing about now and do the both versions for  the same price and throw in the adaptor free,

699 euros for the lightening version still,

 :)

Hey Kev,

Not to make you feel bad and hindsight is 20/20, when the lightning version was introduced, both versions were exactly the same price here in Toronto. Now that the 30 pin was reduced in price, the lightning remains high with a $220.00 difference. Ouch!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 03, 2015, 02:22:45 PM
It's cheaper to buy a 30 pin and a lightning daughter board to swap in there.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 03, 2015, 02:52:31 PM
It's cheaper to buy a 30 pin and a lightning daughter board to swap in there.

 :thu: Never even thought about that. Good idea!  8)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 03, 2015, 03:36:25 PM
I want to securely dock my pad mate, but that's very kind of you,

They need to stop messing about now and do the both versions for  the same price and throw in the adaptor free,

699 euros for the lightening version still,

 :)

Hey Kev,

Not to make you feel bad and hindsight is 20/20, when the lightning version was introduced, both versions were exactly the same price here in Toronto. Now that the 30 pin was reduced in price, the lightning remains high with a $220.00 difference. Ouch!

It's called inventory clearance for the 30 pin units since none of the 30 pins will run their software satisfactorily. That should be a big hint for those with iPad 2, 3's.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 03, 2015, 04:03:24 PM
Now you have me wondering if I should get the lightning adapter upgrade kit before they are all gone.  (ipad 2)  It would give the mixer a longer life.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 03, 2015, 04:38:01 PM
The lightning upgrade kit will be available as long as the lightning DL is around at least as a spare part.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 03, 2015, 05:19:59 PM
Talk about special sale on 30 pin $399 for the DL806 and $699 for the DL1608. Finally hit my prediction. That's $200 more for the lightning on the DL806 and $300 more for the DL1608 from Sweetwater.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DL806
Inventory clearance anyone. Get them while they last!!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 03, 2015, 06:37:42 PM
Talk about special sale on 30 pin $399 for the DL806 and $699 for the DL1608. Finally hit my prediction. That's $200 more for the lightning on the DL806 and $300 more for the DL1608 from Sweetwater.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DL806
Inventory clearance anyone. Get them while they last!!

Do you think it's possible that the handwriting is on the wall for this particular platform? Not to be a doomsayer or anything.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 03, 2015, 09:18:35 PM
Hi guys

 Is it possible to do what I said with a trailing lead straight to the multi pin,

 I imagine the conductors in the Lightning   cable are  too puny for a robust solution.

 :)



Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 04, 2015, 01:16:22 AM
Buy an iPad Mini and a 30 pin to Lightning adapter (and take the mini to the can with you when you need to go)?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 04, 2015, 03:08:59 AM
Talk about special sale on 30 pin $399 for the DL806 and $699 for the DL1608. Finally hit my prediction. That's $200 more for the lightning on the DL806 and $300 more for the DL1608 from Sweetwater.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DL806
Inventory clearance anyone. Get them while they last!!

Do you think it's possible that the handwriting is on the wall for this particular platform? Not to be a doomsayer or anything.  :)
Not a chance they have nothing to replace it with. It's just an indirect way of giving you a hint that iPad 2,3 and all 30 pins are history on MF3.x. $50 and 10 minutes installs the lightning connector or if you don't need the cradle then a $12 cable will do the trick or the overpriced Apple cable for $34.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 04, 2015, 01:52:36 PM
Talk about special sale on 30 pin $399 for the DL806 and $699 for the DL1608. Finally hit my prediction. That's $200 more for the lightning on the DL806 and $300 more for the DL1608 from Sweetwater.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DL806
Inventory clearance anyone. Get them while they last!!

Do you think it's possible that the handwriting is on the wall for this particular platform? Not to be a doomsayer or anything.  :)
Not a chance they have nothing to replace it with. It's just an indirect way of giving you a hint that iPad 2,3 and all 30 pins are history on MF3.x. $50 and 10 minutes installs the lightning connector or if you don't need the cradle then a $12 cable will do the trick or the overpriced Apple cable for $34.

Yes, Mackie would be cutting off their nose, despite their face if they phased out the 806/1608 platform without having an equivalent format to replace it. So lightning connector it is. Makes sense in the overall scheme of things. Onwards and upwards.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 05, 2015, 07:47:20 AM
"Onwards and upwards." In spending money on a also ran product at this time. If I were to upgrade to a Air 2 I would have spend the same as my full X32 without tablet. Not really a choice unless you need a faster iPad for other things that will pay for it. ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 05, 2015, 02:52:45 PM
If you really hate the Mackie products, you ought to find a different forum to hang out on.  If you really love the Behringer products, there are appropriate forums for that too.  Now if you generally find the Mackie products good for what you need and you have some ideas of how to help improve it?  We want and need you here.   I for one, don't want to learn about any other digital mixers.  (Pretty sure I'm done purchasing mixers.  Can't do this forever.   I feel the same way about keyboards.  I'm done buying them and don't have any interest in reading about the latest and greatest of those either.) 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on February 05, 2015, 04:26:38 PM
Hey Wyndd don't go shooing WK away he's probably the most interesting poster on this forum. Nothing wrong about reminding Mackie of their shortcomings, it is a useful function of the forum. Comments on rival mixers should be seen as relevant as well (even B*****ger ones!)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 05, 2015, 04:48:55 PM
Before anyone labels the DL as an "also ran" it's worth considering:
1. It was the first of it's genre. (obviously not the first wirelessly controllable mixer but you know what I mean!)
2. It's main (would be) competitor (x16/x18) still hasn't hit the showrooms yet. (And) The X18 is not a quantum leap ahead given the two years plus of catch up time it's had.
3. It's still an evolving product, significantly improved since it's launch.
4. Still very useable for 99.9999% people.
5. Look at what you get for your USD, it's pretty cheap.
6. An "also ran" in a race with what exactly???

That's just my opinion peeps ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 05, 2015, 05:30:33 PM
The X18 is not a quantum leap ahead given the two years plus of catch up time it's had.
I'd not say "quantum leap" but at least 4.0 ;) :

Recallable/remoteable preamp trims.
Multichannel record.
4 pro quality FX slots with a carpload of options.
"Squeeze" mode that puts all 16 channels on one iPad screen.
You can re-order the channels.
Android, PC/Mac, and (yes) iPad apps.
Integrated wireless.
Internal power supply.

Then again, "quantum leap" isn't that far off. OTOH it lacks a hardware connection to the iPad and is still vaporware :P . No groups either, but the implementation of DCA's is way cool  8) .

The DL32R shares the same WTF FX but if they added the routing capabilities of the DL32R to the DL1608 and added a couple internal aux buses to be used for recording (so you don't have to burn your physical ones) we'd be a step up from the X-Air's. The X-Air's seem to not have matices either, might as well copy those over from the DL32R too :) ,
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 05, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
If you really hate the Mackie products, you ought to find a different forum to hang out on.  If you really love the Behringer products, there are appropriate forums for that too.  Now if you generally find the Mackie products good for what you need and you have some ideas of how to help improve it?  We want and need you here.   I for one, don't want to learn about any other digital mixers.  (Pretty sure I'm done purchasing mixers.  Can't do this forever.   I feel the same way about keyboards.  I'm done buying them and don't have any interest in reading about the latest and greatest of those either.)
Wynnd why do I have to keep reminding you and all the other Johnny come late-lees that the reason for this forums existence was because MACKIE dumped theirs with ALL their Customers and Products. That's reality whether you want to accept it or not. Please don't try to tell me  what my opinion about a product or Mackie should be. If you don't want to be informed of other products that may do the same job possibly better then don't read about it. I'm sure there are people out there that do want something other than marketing hype or read Fannboy mail.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 05, 2015, 07:28:57 PM
If you really hate the Mackie products, you ought to find a different forum to hang out on.  If you really love the Behringer products, there are appropriate forums for that too.  Now if you generally find the Mackie products good for what you need and you have some ideas of how to help improve it?  We want and need you here.   I for one, don't want to learn about any other digital mixers.  (Pretty sure I'm done purchasing mixers.  Can't do this forever.   I feel the same way about keyboards.  I'm done buying them and don't have any interest in reading about the latest and greatest of those either.)
Wynnd why do I have to keep reminding you and all the other Johnny come late-lees that the reason for this forums existence was because MACKIE dumped theirs with ALL their Customers and Products. That's reality whether you want to accept it or not. Please don't try to tell me  what my opinion about a product or Mackie should be. If you don't want to be informed of other products that may do the same job possibly better then don't read about it. I'm sure there are people out there that do want something other than marketing hype or read Fannboy mail.
I'm also sure that "there are people out there" who would appreciate a slightly less negative bias against the seemingly inoffensive DL series and Mackie?
As you chaps say "Peace out Bro" and all that ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 05, 2015, 07:33:00 PM
RR, can I become a moderator? ;D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 05, 2015, 11:58:47 PM
RR, can I become a moderator? ;D
What we need here is another Mackie mouthpiece. What BenO isn't official enough??
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 06, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
RR, can I become a moderator? ;D
What we need here is another Mackie mouthpiece. What BenO isn't official enough??

Chill pill required WK,
I don't for a minute think RR is going to grant my request, nor do I really have the time to take up the position as a moderator.
I have one piece of Mackie equipment in 30 years of musicianship, so I'd hardly class myself as a "fanboy Mackie mouthpiece".
You know BenO is hardly a regular poster here so it's not like we're overrun with corporate interference.

I just like to see fairness and you seem to take it way beyond that at almost every opportunity.
You definitely have an axe to grind with Mackie and it casts a dark cloud over this forum and any useful info you contribute.

On the whole, I think the DL series of mixers are pretty inoffensive to most owners.
People here are mostly looking for hints and tips to enhance their ownership.
No one wants their purchase to be rubbed in their faces by you at almost every opportunity.
Do you care at all about other people's sensibilities?

If you're unhappy with your DL that's fine, you are most likely in the minority in that respect.
You probably don't use it.
You obviously don't like it.
Why don't you just sell your DL and be done with it and this forum?

Using this forum as a platform for your grievances against Mackie is a waste of time.
I doubt they are listening. If they are, I doubt they care.
Every business has dissatisfied customers who will never be appeased, they probably have you down as that.
No matter what they do or say you won't be happy so they ignore you.
That is probably frustrating for you but I don't think this is the place for you to get your revenge.

If you want to punish Mackie don't buy their products again.
If you want to punish Mackie customers, keep doing what you are doing.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 06, 2015, 09:04:57 AM
I think this is a well run and well informed forum,  and I get a lot of useful info from here, I am criticized for my suggestions and for not actually owning a Dl mixer,  even though  I don't rule out purchasing one or working with bands who own one, i just take The nasty blows on the chin, as I class the slurs and requests to have me removed as a flattering display of jealousy,

As the man said, just  peace out, you are not forced to read wkds posts or mine for that matter.

Have a great weekend everyone and thanks to the forum owner for having us.

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 06, 2015, 10:08:07 AM
Maybe you've been unwilling to take the plunge because some of the very negative comments turned you off to the product.  No one is forcing you to take the plunge, but you might want to keep better track as to where the negativity is coming from.  There really aren't that many people who spend their time on this website trying to drive readers here to different products.  (Are they getting paid to do that?  Or do they just have a stupid problem with Mackie?)   I would hardly be considered a Mackie Fan-boy.  Only ever owned two of their products.  A CFX-12 mixer that Aux 1 died on and the DL1608.  My experience with the DL has been quite good.  I came here from a MixWiz that is still running perfectly for a country band in Colorado Springs.  (Bought new in 2008)  Outside of the global phantom power, there isn't anything that I don't like about the DL's design.  I would have liked to have the entire second bank of inputs to be the 1/4 XLR inputs.  Sometimes 4 of them just doesn't seem enough.  I don't use reverb much, so that isn't much of a problem.  (And yes, I like the delay better.)  I would have been fine if the MF 3.x upgrade had only included the groups.  I like groups as I had gotten used to them on the CFX-12 and missed them on the MixWiz.  And I don't have any interest in going back to MF2.1.1.   I like the improvements and don't have any personal complaints about the execution.   I am waiting for My Fader 3.x, but it's coming soon.  (Can't wait for the screaming that it's not perfect coming for those whiney few.)   I do wish they would rename it something like Personal Fader 3.x  Then abbreviations like MF and PF could be used and make sense to everyone. 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 06, 2015, 06:48:39 PM
Wow a reality check on DL cost generated all this, really. Robbo we are talking about a piece of equipment here not something you're married to. It's a piece of equipment that is supposed to do the job it's advertised to do. This is not a social forum with focus on people and their sensibilities, something you seem to have trouble separating. Mackie has a place for that at Facebook. It's a social forum as designed by it's founders that Mackie uses as a thinly veiled advertising platform. I deal direct with any grievances and other issues but certainly not thru this forum. Yes, I have opinions thru my own experiences with the product and I don't need your permission to express them here. My focus is on features and product design something I have some experience in and I also track their customer service by other peoples complaints on the product. These are factors informed people use to make buy decisions. Mackie is quite capable of "punishing" it's customers all by themselves they don't need my help. Their track record painfully points that out. When someone asks about a product usage and I feel I can intelligently contribute I do. I don't tell other people what their opinions should be. I do try to keep this forum on subject so it can serve as a useful resource for those that are looking to buy or need an answer to a relevant issue without having to wade thru a pile of social soapbox posts. You need to chill out.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 06, 2015, 09:16:14 PM
Wow a reality check on DL cost generated all this, really. Robbo we are talking about a piece of equipment here not something you're married to. It's a piece of equipment that is supposed to do the job it's advertised to do. This is not a social forum with focus on people and their sensibilities, something you seem to have trouble separating. Mackie has a place for that at Facebook. It's a social forum as designed by it's founders that Mackie uses as a thinly veiled advertising platform. I deal direct with any grievances and other issues but certainly not thru this forum. Yes, I have opinions thru my own experiences with the product and I don't need your permission to express them here. My focus is on features and product design something I have some experience in and I also track their customer service by other peoples complaints on the product. These are factors informed people use to make buy decisions. Mackie is quite capable of "punishing" it's customers all by themselves they don't need my help. Their track record painfully points that out. When someone asks about a product usage and I feel I can intelligently contribute I do. I don't tell other people what their opinions should be. I do try to keep this forum on subject so it can serve as a useful resource for those that are looking to buy or need an answer to a relevant issue without having to wade thru a pile of social soapbox posts. You need to chill out.
With respect WK,
I don't want to deny you your opinion, my apologies if it seems that way.
That being said, please don't call me a fanboy or mouthpiece when I express mine ;)

(Cue sad music)
I'm just asking for a bit of consideration for the people who like their DLs.
People who have worked and saved hard to buy one, only for you to tell them it's rubbish and kick sand in their faces.
That's where sensibilities kick in. You have other mixers, you have better gear. They're "stuck", why make them feel bad?
What are you gaining? That's my only gripe with you, I only ask you consider these people before you type.
(End music)

I'm not sure your delivery is helping your cause if you really want improvement or to get Mackie's attention.
Which brings to mind a quote used by my Father in law:
"You'll catch more bees with honey than you will with shite"
That is to say: (sometimes)
"You'll have more success by being nice than by not being nice"
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 07, 2015, 09:01:19 AM
Hi guys

A few things have put me off taking the plunge, the white noise, the previous pricing and the issues of handshaking master fader and so on when you minimize it to use your playback app etc.

Now that Dl is close to 500 euros, I will probably jump in soon, I don't care about all the bells and whistles of future mackie releases or the bels and whistles with jelly and custard on top of ultra cheap berry products, I have gotten by the last thirty years with a basic desk and external and now internal fx, eq with a sweep on the mid and that's it, that's all I needed then and in reality all anyone solo or in a band playing for 300 people a night will ever need, the mackie Dl is perfect now and will be in the next ten years when I hope to pack in.

Have a great weekend everyone,

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 09, 2015, 02:08:17 AM
With all due respect Robbo I will refrain from pointing out what you aspired to being, a "moderator" to what end and with no time for it.
Your support on the JL issue has not escaped me and I am grateful for it.
That been said I recognize that we will have our differing opinions and target audience. The people that already own a DL are painfully aware of it's short comings and are not my target audience other than for workarounds and techniques. It's the potential customers that I seek to inform about the product. Drama is always a good attention getter rather than just dry facts as I'm sure you would agree. One can get lots of accolades from most any of the vendor sites unfortunately they never point out the marginal claims or the real world usage. You get that here. If there is anyone kicking sand in their faces including yours and mine it's Mackie.  Your rather fatalistic view that they are "stuck" with it I find quite unrealistic, NO-ONE is in that position or should not be. One of the very reasons for alternatives and or workarounds provided here. On the subject of honey, a lot of it already went over the dam but you can't be aware of it since you're not privy to my communications with Mackie and others. Best to refrain from making up conjectures and conclusions on your part.
Peace.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 09, 2015, 07:32:22 PM
With all due respect Robbo I will refrain from pointing out what you aspired to being, a "moderator" to what end and with no time for it.
Your support on the JL issue has not escaped me and I am grateful for it.
That been said I recognize that we will have our differing opinions and target audience. The people that already own a DL are painfully aware of it's short comings and are not my target audience other than for workarounds and techniques. It's the potential customers that I seek to inform about the product. Drama is always a good attention getter rather than just dry facts as I'm sure you would agree. One can get lots of accolades from most any of the vendor sites unfortunately they never point out the marginal claims or the real world usage. You get that here. If there is anyone kicking sand in their faces including yours and mine it's Mackie.  Your rather fatalistic view that they are "stuck" with it I find quite unrealistic, NO-ONE is in that position or should not be. One of the very reasons for alternatives and or workarounds provided here. On the subject of honey, a lot of it already went over the dam but you can't be aware of it since you're not privy to my communications with Mackie and others. Best to refrain from making up conjectures and conclusions on your part.
Peace.
The moderator quip was tongue in cheek WK, I was smiling when I wrote it but that didn't come across.
The people "stuck" are perhaps people who've bought the DL on finance, or are on tight budgets who can't afford to jump ship. They may truly be stuck. I don't know them but I feel for them. I'm happy and confident with my purchase so it doesn't bother me. I just feel I have to redress the balance sometimes as a very satisfied customer. No malice involved, I have respect for you not only as my elder, but as an obviously knowledgeable gentleman. I have the benefit and experience of c30 years in the music business (and other ventures) so I've accrued a little knowledge here and there too. If something doesn't sit with me I like to have my say, just as you do. As a generally empathetic person I was enraged at JL's behaviour towards you so I had to speak up. I'm not on a personal crusade against you or anyone one else but I'll give my 2p worth when I feel I need to. That's just who I am. I need to chill and worry about  things closer to home.
Later WK! ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 09, 2015, 09:56:15 PM
Agreed. Sometimes how we come across in "the moment" can bite us in the ars. Case in point "Ok. I'll admit it. I'm an A&H fanboy...." if you know what I mean. I believe we both have invested a fair amount of time in this forum and will continue to do that.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 09, 2015, 11:14:29 PM
Agreed. Sometimes how we come across in "the moment" can bite us in the ars. Case in point "Ok. I'll admit it. I'm an A&H fanboy...." if you know what I mean. I believe we both have invested a fair amount of time in this forum and will continue to do that.  :)
Lol, you got me there for sure. Ten or so mixers later it's hard to deny that I'm fond of A&H.
Now if I buy a second Mackie product, feel free to call me what you like :thu: ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 10, 2015, 01:23:16 AM
Agreed. Sometimes how we come across in "the moment" can bite us in the ars. Case in point "Ok. I'll admit it. I'm an A&H fanboy...." if you know what I mean. I believe we both have invested a fair amount of time in this forum and will continue to do that.  :)
Lol, you got me there for sure. Ten or so mixers later it's hard to deny that I'm fond of A&H.
Now if I buy a second Mackie product, feel free to call me what you like :thu: ;)
How about a snowballs chance in hell while that Qu-Pac exists at almost the same price as a full blown DL.  ;) Although that UK monetary system can throw you off.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 10, 2015, 07:41:38 AM
Agreed. Sometimes how we come across in "the moment" can bite us in the ars. Case in point "Ok. I'll admit it. I'm an A&H fanboy...." if you know what I mean. I believe we both have invested a fair amount of time in this forum and will continue to do that.  :)
Lol, you got me there for sure. Ten or so mixers later it's hard to deny that I'm fond of A&H.
Now if I buy a second Mackie product, feel free to call me what you like :thu: ;)
How about a snowballs chance in hell while that Qu-Pac exists at almost the same price as a full blown DL.  ;) Although that UK monetary system can throw you off.
For me there is no choice! (I'm a sucker for pretty face ;))
Title: ..maybe a little off topic..but hey
Post by: Sir Krang on February 10, 2015, 09:12:02 AM
For me there is no choice! (I'm a sucker for pretty face ;))
I'm also a sucker for a pretty face...and for my taste in "pretty faces" I simply can't go past our own  magnificently beautiful, red head Aussie actress Sarah Snook. (Small parts of me are quivering with excitement LOL)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/2f753707bc6091ea676a33e0072ec7b2_zpsf17d8451.jpg)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 10, 2015, 09:52:16 AM
Very pretty for sure!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 10, 2015, 10:06:10 AM
Cheapest I can find a Qu-Pac in the UK is £1299, on Pre-order (available March 31st.......), the DL1608 costs around £750. OTOH, You can buy a Qu16 for under £1500 making the Qu-Pac poor value....
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 10, 2015, 05:53:02 PM
Cheapest I can find a Qu-Pac in the UK is £1299, on Pre-order (available March 31st.......), the DL1608 costs around £750. OTOH, You can buy a Qu16 for under £1500 making the Qu-Pac poor value....
To be fair in comparing costs you need to throw in at least a iPad mini 3 cost to the DL1608 otherwise it won't work. :) The DL cost better be the lightning connector version as well.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 10, 2015, 10:54:15 PM
The Qu-Pac is also 50% more than a Berry X32 Rack, any way you cut it it's expensive for what it offers.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 10, 2015, 11:05:01 PM
The Qu-Pac is also 50% more than a Berry X32 Rack, any way you cut it it's expensive for what it offers.
It's a lot of money.
Would it be a significant enough step up in quality for it to replace my DL at that price? I don't know.
I like the fact I could connect my stagebox to get 38 channels, but I dread the thought of mixing mostly on the current Qu-Pad app.
(I know it can all be done from the screen on the qu-pac but the iPad will probably be the main controller most of the time)
I'm always glad to get back to the actual desk when I'm using that app, that says a lot.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 10, 2015, 11:32:42 PM
The Qu-Pac is also 50% more than a Berry X32 Rack, any way you cut it it's expensive for what it offers.
It's a lot of money.
Would it be a significant enough step up in quality for it to replace my DL at that price? I don't know.
I like the fact I could connect my stagebox to get 38 channels, but I dread the thought of mixing mostly on the current Qu-Pad app.
(I know it can all be done from the screen on the qu-pac but the iPad will probably be the main controller most of the time)
I'm always glad to get back to the actual desk when I'm using that app, that says a lot.

Quality? I seriously doubt it (except for better reverbs) IMO the DL is very good sounding. The X32 is equally good sounding and is cheaper than the Qu series across the board. If you already have bought into the A&H system then it may make sense but they are all building in China, with all the reliability issues (or not) that implies so when I needed faders I couldn't get past the price of the X32 range and that's where I jumped in the end.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 11, 2015, 12:10:29 AM
The Qu-Pac is also 50% more than a Berry X32 Rack, any way you cut it it's expensive for what it offers.
Somebody needs to knock on A&H's door in the UK and ask why such a disparity with US pricing. The X32 rack is $1199 the Qu-Pac is $1499 that's a $300 difference last time I did the math, far from 50%.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 11, 2015, 12:15:42 AM
X32 Rack £890, UK price, Qu-Pac (vapourware) £1299-1499, close enough to 150% for me. You're right WK UK prices suck.....
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 11, 2015, 12:23:51 AM
X32 Rack £890, UK price, Qu-Pac (vapourware) £1299-1499, close enough to 150% for me. You're right WK UK prices suck.....
Just looked at Sweetwaters Qu16 it's at $1999 and you did mean 50% not 150% otherwise I'd give that calculator a heave.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 11, 2015, 12:38:01 AM
The Qu-Pac is also 50% more than a Berry X32 Rack, any way you cut it it's expensive for what it offers.
It's a lot of money.
Would it be a significant enough step up in quality for it to replace my DL at that price? I don't know.
I like the fact I could connect my stagebox to get 38 channels, but I dread the thought of mixing mostly on the current Qu-Pad app.
(I know it can all be done from the screen on the qu-pac but the iPad will probably be the main controller most of the time)
I'm always glad to get back to the actual desk when I'm using that app, that says a lot.

Quality? I seriously doubt it (except for better reverbs) IMO the DL is very good sounding. The X32 is equally good sounding and is cheaper than the Qu series across the board. If you already have bought into the A&H system then it may make sense but they are all building in China, with all the reliability issues (or not) that implies so when I needed faders I couldn't get past the price of the X32 range and that's where I jumped in the end.
My Qu24 was made in the UK, my AR2412 built in China.
I don't think the reliability issues are so much to do with China but the companies within China, what they use to build and how they build.
A&H building stuff there wouldn't bother me other than the fact that British jobs are being farmed out. If quality problems became an issue, that opinion would probably change.
I have no major gripes with the sound of the DL, even the FX, as I use them sparingly. But I genuinely think I get better results when I use the QU. Maybe it's the placebo effect, who knows?

LOL re: "vapourware". I would put a fiver on it arriving as scheduled :thu: ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Fluddman on February 11, 2015, 12:56:46 AM
The Qu-Pac is also 50% more than a Berry X32 Rack, any way you cut it it's expensive for what it offers.
It's a lot of money.
Would it be a significant enough step up in quality for it to replace my DL at that price? I don't know.
I like the fact I could connect my stagebox to get 38 channels, but I dread the thought of mixing mostly on the current Qu-Pad app.
(I know it can all be done from the screen on the qu-pac but the iPad will probably be the main controller most of the time)
I'm always glad to get back to the actual desk when I'm using that app, that says a lot.

Quality? I seriously doubt it (except for better reverbs) IMO the DL is very good sounding. The X32 is equally good sounding and is cheaper than the Qu series across the board. If you already have bought into the A&H system then it may make sense but they are all building in China, with all the reliability issues (or not) that implies so when I needed faders I couldn't get past the price of the X32 range and that's where I jumped in the end.
My Qu24 was made in the UK, my AR2412 built in China.
I don't think the reliability issues are so much to do with China but the companies within China, what they use to build and how they build.
A&H building stuff there wouldn't bother me other than the fact that British jobs are being farmed out. If quality problems became an issue, that opinion would probably change.
I have no major gripes with the sound of the DL, even the FX, as I use them sparingly. But I genuinely think I get better results when I use the QU. Maybe it's the placebo effect, who knows?

LOL re: "vapourware". I would put a fiver on it arriving as scheduled :thu: ;)

So the QU has even got a placebo effect!  ;)

Wish I had that on my DL - i'll just have to make do with the crappy reverb and delay.

Cheers
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 11, 2015, 12:59:24 AM
 :lol:
Good one Fluddman!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 11, 2015, 04:29:58 PM
Hey Robbo I'd answer your PM but I'm blocked. ::) In any case yes and I think they kissed  and made up since.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 11, 2015, 05:35:25 PM
Few comments about made in China.  My MixWiz was made in China.  Everything was still working perfectly when I sold it last year.  My iphones were made in China.  No quality issues there either.  Many of my recent Mac computers were made in China.  Again, no problems and amazing battery life.  (Still get more than 4 hours surfing the web on my 5 year old macbook pro.  That's way down from the nearly 10 hours when new, but better than many brand new windows laptops, and I had upgraded the harddrive which is a bit thirstier.) 

Not everything I've gotten from China has been great.  But I remember Japanese cupie dolls in the 60s.  Real junk!  And now just about everything out of Japan is excellent.  China is probably 80% the quality of Japan and that's generally a very good compliment.  (And the Republic of Korea is very close too.)  I would like to see more stuff manufactured in the USA.  Honda even quit making GoldWings here.  (After nearly 40 years of building them only in Ohio.)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 11, 2015, 05:43:41 PM
I wasn't intending my comment about China to suggest poor reliability, just that whatever you buy in our price range, A&H, Berry, Mackie, Soundcraft Ui/zed, they are virtually all manufactured in China (I couldn't find and actual info on where each 'manufacturer' has there mixers built but if the A&H Qu is 'built' in the UK I'll bet all the circuit boards are Chinese manufacture) with whatever reliability consequences that involves. I have a DL1608 and an X32 Compact, both made in China, and have no reliability concerns. If they were made in the EU/UK/US I doubt I could afford them.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Sir Krang on February 11, 2015, 06:19:02 PM
I would like to see more stuff manufactured in the USA.  Honda even quit making GoldWings here.  (After nearly 40 years of building them only in Ohio.)

Off topic. But I reckon it needs to be said.

I've owned more motorcycles than I've had hot dinners..well not quite, but hey..

Out of my 17 brand new motorcycles the most unreliable pieces of junk have been the four American made ones.
Three Harley davidsons, and a Buell.

All the others were oriental made and were/are 100% reliable, and ran/run like clockwork.

As a consequence I actively avoid anything made in America.

Just my educated observation.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 11, 2015, 06:46:16 PM
I can't recall anyone saying that the Goldwing was anything less than rock solid.  Harley's on the other hand have had their problems.  My Son has a Triumph Sprint that has been solid.  My GT750 sheared a woodruff key, and had the stator coil go open circuit while I owned it.  Had a chassis short on my CJ360T, broken front exhaust pipe, failed R&R, failed Stator on my 1989 PC800, frozen brake calipers on my 1990 PC800.  None have been perfect, but I ride a lot.  (100,000 personal miles on the 1989 PC800.)  Don't think I've ever let anyone else work on them.  Knew Gordie Seims in the 70s.  he was riding a RE-5 and noticed that he had put 30,000 miles on it in a year.  Smooth, easy to ride and the first large Suzuki that handled.   (Gordie was probably the best club racer in central California back then.)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on February 17, 2015, 12:09:10 PM
For those in the USA who are interested, Sweetwater actually has the XR18 in stock at U$699.99. The product page is not completely updated (unless they've sold through their initial stock this morning), but I did get an e-mail blast from them this morning at 6:45 AM EST indicating it was in stock and ready to ship. Here's the link I received:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XR18/notify/930cfae146e058a0c02ff32a29cd441d91db3c90?utm_source=item-alert-instock-manual&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=117266&utm_content=XR18

And the regular product link:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XR18

Cheers!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 17, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
That link says they'll begin shipping in March.  Still VAPORWARE in my book.  I like the specs, but they're calling it as having 12 busses?  Not the way I count.  (Maybe they're using base 6)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on February 17, 2015, 02:17:04 PM
That link says they'll begin shipping in March.  Still VAPORWARE in my book.  I like the specs, but they're calling it as having 12 busses?  Not the way I count.  (Maybe they're using base 6)

As I said ... the web site has not been fully updated yet. The units are in stock and ready to ship.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 17, 2015, 02:44:52 PM
Pretty hard to sell if the website says they aren't shipping yet.  Updating that is a 5 minute process.  If they can't be bothered, they must not want sales very badly.  (And if they are available, the competition will cream them.)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on February 17, 2015, 03:01:39 PM
Pretty hard to sell if the website says they aren't shipping yet.  Updating that is a 5 minute process.  If they can't be bothered, they must not want sales very badly.  (And if they are available, the competition will cream them.)

I'd expect that the web site will be updated once someone comes to work -- I received the e-mail a 6:45 AM EST, sent out by the marketing listserv.

12 buses is Behringer's marketing hype. Like many manufacturers, they tend to count internal busses as well as external (usable) busses. They also overstate their channel counts, IMO.

Attached is a screenshot of the e-mail I received from Sweetwater letting me know that the units are in stock. 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 17, 2015, 05:17:22 PM
If that's the case it now takes 9 weeks for the slow boat from China and Starin. Dec 17th to Feb 17th. They are however real  :).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 17, 2015, 08:14:34 PM
Anyone order one of these?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on February 17, 2015, 10:16:40 PM
If that's the case it now takes 9 weeks for the slow boat from China and Starin. Dec 17th to Feb 17th. They are however real  :).

The boat itself takes five to the Port of Los Angeles, a little longer to Seatle. Then, truck or train to the distributor can be a week or two, and then another week or two to the dealer. So, yeah, nine weeks from China to dealer is a reasonable amount of time. :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 17, 2015, 10:33:06 PM
When I ordered a computer for my Mother from Apple, it took about a week.  (Probably by air.)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 17, 2015, 10:57:12 PM
If that's the case it now takes 9 weeks for the slow boat from China and Starin. Dec 17th to Feb 17th. They are however real  :).

The boat itself takes five to the Port of Los Angeles, a little longer to Seatle. Then, truck or train to the distributor can be a week or two, and then another week or two to the dealer. So, yeah, nine weeks from China to dealer is a reasonable amount of time. :)

My times are based on Uli announcing shipment from his factory in China and retailers receiving product to sell, that's all, and on the X32 it ranged from 8 to 8.5 weeks for the US. Now it's slipped to 9 weeks.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on February 18, 2015, 01:20:57 AM
If that's the case it now takes 9 weeks for the slow boat from China and Starin. Dec 17th to Feb 17th. They are however real  :).

The boat itself takes five to the Port of Los Angeles, a little longer to Seatle. Then, truck or train to the distributor can be a week or two, and then another week or two to the dealer. So, yeah, nine weeks from China to dealer is a reasonable amount of time. :)

My times are based on Uli announcing shipment from his factory in China and retailers receiving product to sell, that's all, and on the X32 it ranged from 8 to 8.5 weeks for the US. Now it's slipped to 9 weeks.

I used to work for a company that did a lot of manufacturing in China, so I got pretty used to thinking about transit times... :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 18, 2015, 03:31:04 AM
Uli or Starin should be thinking about a warehouse in CA or at least in NV instead of Chicago.  ;) I have ordered many things from China and received them in a week (large sized items). Time for a 21st Century shipping solution.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on February 18, 2015, 10:57:59 AM
Uli or Starin should be thinking about a warehouse in CA or at least in NV instead of Chicago.  ;) I have ordered many things from China and received them in a week (large sized items). Time for a 21st Century shipping solution.

For one or two items, you can do that -- I do it, too. However, when you're shipping containers-full, air freight is prohibitively expensive. There really is no "21st Century" alternative.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 18, 2015, 02:00:15 PM
Where is a transporter when you need it?  Could the Doctor make the Tardis available?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 18, 2015, 05:53:56 PM
Uli or Starin should be thinking about a warehouse in CA or at least in NV instead of Chicago.  ;) I have ordered many things from China and received them in a week (large sized items). Time for a 21st Century shipping solution.

For one or two items, you can do that -- I do it, too. However, when you're shipping containers-full, air freight is prohibitively expensive. There really is no "21st Century" alternative.
You don't really think they're handled separately. They're shipped in containers and also have to be sorted out at this end.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on February 18, 2015, 06:00:36 PM
The app's not done yet, is it? How are you supposed to use it?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on February 18, 2015, 06:01:52 PM
X-Air Edit Beta available for download : http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X18.aspx
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on February 18, 2015, 06:14:24 PM
A .5 version beta for Windows. Great. My Macbook is amused. I have the iPad app, but there doesn't seem to be any way to switch FX processors. It's a mock-up, not an app. Is the Android one any more complete? By the way, Behringer's BC-Edit and DSP1100 apps have been in beta since 2009 and 1998, respectively.

All the same, the XR18 is on my buy list. They nailed the form factor and the feature set.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 18, 2015, 06:26:38 PM
I have the iPad app, but there doesn't seem to be any way to switch FX processors. It's a mock-up, not an app.
Actually I believe it is fully functional when "connected" to the hardware...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 18, 2015, 06:44:22 PM
You can change the FX in the PC app :) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 18, 2015, 06:52:12 PM
The app's not done yet, is it? How are you supposed to use it?
How soon we forget. The DL1608 was shipped using MF V1.0 and the first usable MF V1.1 made it a month later. ;D At least you have a choice of 5 platforms instead of 1. That's Windows, Linux, Mac, Android and iOS.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on February 18, 2015, 07:17:59 PM
The app's not done yet, is it? How are you supposed to use it?
At least you have a choice of 5 platforms instead of 1. That's Windows, Linux, Mac, Android and iOS.

Not quite yet as of now, though sooner than later I would wager based on this  post #5: http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6214-X-Air-Edit-is-out-there&p=40655&viewfull=1#post40655
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on February 18, 2015, 07:18:36 PM
At least you have a choice of 5 platforms instead of 1. That's Windows, Linux, Mac, Android and iOS.

No Mac or Linux yet. Also no forgetting. I've been here all along. QSC's initial app was less functional than Mackie's. All I've seen for the X-Air's is the iPad app, though, and it seemed to be a mock-up. Perhaps it works when hooked up. I expect we'll know pretty soon.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on February 18, 2015, 09:11:11 PM
Uli or Starin should be thinking about a warehouse in CA or at least in NV instead of Chicago.  ;) I have ordered many things from China and received them in a week (large sized items). Time for a 21st Century shipping solution.

For one or two items, you can do that -- I do it, too. However, when you're shipping containers-full, air freight is prohibitively expensive. There really is no "21st Century" alternative.
You don't really think they're handled separately. They're shipped in containers and also have to be sorted out at this end.

I know exactly how shipments from China are handled. Spent nearly 8 years of my life dealing with it. I know exactly how "onesies" can be air shipped and take 10 days to get here, and containers fit on ships and take weeks. Yeesh. READ BACK. We've been through this.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: chrisdski on February 18, 2015, 09:53:39 PM
Sweetwater has the XR18 in stock and ready for shipment.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 18, 2015, 10:14:21 PM
Anyone order one of these?

OK one more time, will anyone here admit  :) that they ordered one of these?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on February 19, 2015, 06:36:11 PM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...

I checked in with Rat Sound on the X-18 order. They said it looks like the ship date to me will be Feb 28th. Fingers crossed...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 19, 2015, 07:41:10 PM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...

I checked in with Rat Sound on the X-18 order. They said it looks like the ship date to me will be Feb 28th. Fingers crossed...

My fingers are crossed for you too!  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 19, 2015, 07:47:52 PM
So on the 29th we should have a confirmation on your order. Carriers have been known to screw thing up, Murphy. ;)
Sorry it will take a couple more days from Oxnard to San Fran.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 21, 2015, 09:41:28 AM
I just wish they would have started with the x12 and worked up, looks like I will be waiting for Christmas again.

 :lol:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 21, 2015, 10:27:47 AM
Which Christmas Kev?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 21, 2015, 12:41:33 PM
Which Christmas Kev?

Christmas  last year and the one before that,

Well I have the money now Sam for either a Dl or an x, don't have any gigs here on the costa Blanca, and it seems daft buying a 1000 dollar anything at the mo,

Need to sell my ass on the corner

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 21, 2015, 06:13:32 PM
I'm actually entertaining the thought of an XR12 for a bass rig. My "big" bass rig is an NU3000 into a pair of 4 ohm 2x12's (I use this for subs in smaller rooms now when just doing sound) and I'd like a preamp that can also let me mic up the kick in crappy clubs with vocal only PA's. I might be playin' with an originals stoner/doom metal band...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 22, 2015, 02:08:59 AM
I'm actually entertaining the thought of an XR12 for a bass rig. My "big" bass rig is an NU3000 into a pair of 4 ohm 2x12's (I use this for subs in smaller rooms now when just doing sound) and I'd like a preamp that can also let me mic up the kick in crappy clubs with vocal only PA's. I might be playin' with an originals stoner/doom metal band...

What you need for a preamp in those clubs is one of these new fangled Mackie iPad things...... I just happen to have one for sale  :facepalm:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 22, 2015, 05:48:26 AM
I'm actually entertaining the thought of an XR12 for a bass rig. My "big" bass rig is an NU3000 into a pair of 4 ohm 2x12's (I use this for subs in smaller rooms now when just doing sound) and I'd like a preamp that can also let me mic up the kick in crappy clubs with vocal only PA's. I might be playin' with an originals stoner/doom metal band...

What you need for a preamp in those clubs is one of these new fangled Mackie iPad things...... I just happen to have one for sale  :facepalm:
Boy you really know how to hurt a guy. ;D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 23, 2015, 01:09:38 AM
Back to the original OP I've been running a XR18 thru it's paces. It'll take about a month to deal with all that. What you thought Uli get's spared, think again. You just won't hear about it here, ask RR for the details.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 23, 2015, 01:15:58 AM
Place my order with Rat Sound for the X18 today. ETA is mid February. Price well below what I'm seeing online. I suspect I'll be lucky to see it by March. We shall see...

I checked in with Rat Sound on the X-18 order. They said it looks like the ship date to me will be Feb 28th. Fingers crossed...
Got my XR18 on the 21st of Feb. now running it thru the gauntlet. ;) Fan add on is already a requirement. Screwdriver is next but the results won't be given here.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on February 23, 2015, 03:31:11 AM
Looking forward to your report.  Fully expect you to complain at full volume about any minor shortcomings. Enjoy.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 23, 2015, 05:16:24 AM
Looking forward to your report.  Fully expect you to complain at full volume about any minor shortcomings. Enjoy.
What part of results won't be given here don't you understand?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 23, 2015, 09:38:18 AM
Surely they'll be given somewhere WK? You can run but you can't hide........ We'll find you  :lol:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on February 23, 2015, 09:52:17 AM
I think he might be hinting that this forum is supposed to be about DL mixers and their usage, that's what I come here for anyway. Not for intimate details of peoples private lives/vehicles/health etc. or for in depth studies of Uli's latest marvel.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 23, 2015, 10:01:48 AM
Yup that's what I thought. The question is 'which forum will he post his XR18 post-mortem on?' :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on February 23, 2015, 10:05:59 AM
I suspect he might go so far as to tell us that.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 23, 2015, 10:06:54 AM
Surely they'll be given somewhere WK? You can run but you can't hide........ We'll find you  :lol:
Knock yourself out. http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6214-X-Air-Edit-is-out-there/page5
I simply don't believe even the DL32 and DL1608/806 should be under the same title. It just makes more of a mess than it already is. Can't find anything without a lot of wasted time. I certainly wont put X-Air or X32 stuff into that title or for that matter under the category Mackie.  ;D RR doesn't want to add titles for these mixers, his choice. ::)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: stevegarris on February 24, 2015, 08:21:06 PM
I for one look forward to hearing about the X18R in detail. Based on the title of this thread, and the fact that it's a competing product, I don't see why it couldn't be posted here. I still love my DL but the X18 is very interesting.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 24, 2015, 08:50:37 PM
Behringer actually has an official forum:
http://forum.music-group.com/forumdisplay.php?113-X-AIR-General-Discussion
While info about "the competition" is welcome here one is liable to see a whole lot more over there.
There's also info about the X32 series here:
http://forum.music-group.com/forumdisplay.php?6-Digital-Mixers
Most of my own competition has gone that way - to the X32 Rack (direct competitor to the DL1608 IMO) or above.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 24, 2015, 10:44:01 PM
TBF RR the X32 Rack is twice the size of the DL, but has twice the capability inside, if not in terms of I/O (22 in, 14 out). I'd still recommend a DL to a digital mixer virgin, the app is far and away the best out there but X32 app is serviceable. What you can't do with the DL is add a few extra channels. I already have an X32 Compact and will buy a Rack soon as I need to build a scalable system. I'll use the X32 Compact & Rack for bigger gigs (hiring in S16 if I need more channels) down to X32 Rack alone for my pub/bar gigs (the DL does these with style, and in a smaller box but compromises must be made and X32 Rack makes the DL redundant sadly).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on February 26, 2015, 11:24:04 AM
I think he might be hinting that this forum is supposed to be about DL mixers and their usage, that's what I come here for anyway. Not for intimate details of peoples private lives/vehicles/health etc. or for in depth studies of Uli's latest marvel.

Hi pytchley,

I think I have to disagree with you, what's the point of taking advice from people if you don't have a little knowledge of their background and the type of gigs they do, type of Person they are and  even the car they drive, etc, when someone tells you product x y or z is great you take this info in, to digest it, when they say product x y and z is great and it sounds great through the pa that fits on the back of their motor bike, I would argue this additional information is useful in pertaining whether the advice this person offers carries any weight or not.

To ignore comments from people using  and comparing mackie and other manufacturers gear, absolutely crazy imho.

Cheers

Kev

I had cereal for breakfast today btw.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 26, 2015, 03:15:07 PM
I view this forum and a sort of virtual technical seminar, including the tea breaks. Most of the chat is related to the DL series but there are a number of posts about peripheral matters like the competition and about personal stuff (just like the stuff you'd talk about on the tea break/in the bar afterwards at a real conference) it's all interesting (or if it's not I skip it and move on). :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 26, 2015, 03:23:42 PM
I view this forum and a sort of virtual technical seminar, including the tea breaks. Most of the chat is related to the DL series but there are a number of posts about peripheral matters like the competition and about personal stuff (just like the stuff you'd talk about on the tea break/in the bar afterwards at a real conference) it's all interesting (or if it's not I skip it and move on). :)

Or "Water Cooler" talk at the office.  This is a great forum.  :thu:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 27, 2015, 06:00:12 PM
FYI the PC,Mac,Linux beta .5.1 of X-Air Edit has been released. Moving right along.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on February 27, 2015, 06:38:37 PM
FYI the PC,Mac,Linux beta .5.1 of X-Air Edit has been released. Moving right along.

As expected
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on February 28, 2015, 01:51:44 AM
FYI the PC,Mac,Linux beta .5.1 of X-Air Edit has been released. Moving right along.

As expected

And as expected, the whining, moaning, and bitching of infants and toddlers. 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 28, 2015, 02:34:28 AM
FYI the PC,Mac,Linux beta .5.1 of X-Air Edit has been released. Moving right along.

As expected

And as expected, the whining, moaning, and bitching of infants and toddlers.

Iím hoping you never consider anyone here on the forum as being whining, moaning, bitching infants and toddlers?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 28, 2015, 03:14:15 AM
Just wondering, is anyone in Behringer land annoyed at hardware being released with beta software?
Edit: Didn't see previous three posts. Didn't know the target audience was so young....
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 28, 2015, 03:28:02 AM
Just wondering, is anyone in Behringer land annoyed at hardware being released with beta software?
Edit: Didn't see previous three posts. Didn't know the target audience was so young....
V1.0 of MF was also quite shaky. Remember there are two non Beta apps as well (iPad & Android). At least the infants and toddlers aren't sticking their heads in a urinal and flushing. ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on February 28, 2015, 04:40:10 AM
FYI the PC,Mac,Linux beta .5.1 of X-Air Edit has been released. Moving right along.

As expected

And as expected, the whining, moaning, and bitching of infants and toddlers.

Iím hoping you never consider anyone here on the forum as being whining, moaning, bitching infants and toddlers?
Negative. I think we have all earned stripes and moved beyond training diapers what with all the trials and tribulations of our shared,past, and ongoing collective DL experiences.
Fact is I am not surprised by the early frustration exhibited and rather expected it due to to the entry-level appeal of the X-Air series to a greater inexperienced demographic in platform and peripheral literacy. Following along, sitting in the bleachers is seemingly like watching reality TV, all the while observing the customer-manufacturer space and time continuim.
Wisdom prevailing, growing pains are to be expected and should be allowed for the product, however due diligence is incumbent of the end-user customer.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 28, 2015, 08:04:01 AM
Just wondering, is anyone in Behringer land annoyed at hardware being released with beta software?
Edit: Didn't see previous three posts. Didn't know the target audience was so young....
V1.0 of MF was also quite shaky. Remember there are two non Beta apps as well (iPad & Android). At least the infants and toddlers aren't sticking their heads in a urinal and flushing. ;)
Ta for the update.  :)
Regarding the urinal. Yuk! Perish the thought lol!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on February 28, 2015, 01:20:48 PM
FYI the PC,Mac,Linux beta .5.1 of X-Air Edit has been released. Moving right along.

As expected

And as expected, the whining, moaning, and bitching of infants and toddlers.

Iím hoping you never consider anyone here on the forum as being whining, moaning, bitching infants and toddlers?
Negative. I think we have all earned stripes and moved beyond training diapers what with all the trials and tribulations of our shared,past, and ongoing collective DL experiences.
Fact is I am not surprised by the early frustration exhibited and rather expected it due to to the entry-level appeal of the X-Air series to a greater inexperienced demographic in platform and peripheral literacy. Following along, sitting in the bleachers is seemingly like watching reality TV, all the while observing the customer-manufacturer space and time continuim.
Wisdom prevailing, growing pains are to be expected and should be allowed for the product, however due diligence is incumbent of the end-user customer.

Hi James,

I apologize for even thinking you might have even gone that way.  :-[
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on February 28, 2015, 05:19:07 PM
Just wondering, is anyone in Behringer land annoyed at hardware being released with beta software?
Edit: Didn't see previous three posts. Didn't know the target audience was so young....
I would read it more as grumbling about the lack of continuity across the software and staggered release times. Bear in mind, much has happened in just the short 10 or so days of product release and first posts in the new X-Air section of the user forum.
Not young in age necessarily, though would expect, but young in experience and basic understanding and comprehension of the idiom, audio 101, computers (PC/Mac) and the variant of OS`s, IP implementation and limitations, iOS & Android and the requisite and myriad of pertinent device,app and OS combinations.
The series may well have a democratising effect more so than any other similarly marketed device, something similar to, rewind 20 plus years, to Greg Mackie`s first mixers and the seemingly ubiquitous effect of finding a Mackie mixer in every Gin Joint, High School, and Prayer House.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 01, 2015, 01:57:29 PM
Remember there are two non Beta apps as well (iPad & Android).

If by non-beta you mean not even beta, but just a mockup. Behringer has acknowledged that that's what the iPad app is.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on March 01, 2015, 01:58:52 PM
If by non-beta you mean not even beta, but just a mockup. Behringer has acknowledged that that's what the iPad app is.

So, they're shipping a device that can't be used as intended? Nice.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 01, 2015, 01:59:18 PM
The OS X beta looks pretty great, though. I hope the final iPad app is more like that, with dyn & EQ visible in the strip when enabled, and graphical parametric EQ.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 01, 2015, 02:01:22 PM
So, they're shipping a device that can't be used as intended? Nice.

Both Mackie and QSC shipped with, at best, minimally functional iPad apps.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 01, 2015, 04:27:13 PM
Remember there are two non Beta apps as well (iPad & Android).

If by non-beta you mean not even beta, but just a mockup. Behringer has acknowledged that that's what the iPad app is.
As I've stated in the past I don't comment on something I have no first hand knowledge off, a piece of advise you should probably follow. I'm using that "mockup" as you say to control the XR18. Must be one hell of a simulation with ESP. ;D If your talking about the demo well that's what it is since you need a mixer for functionality. Can't mix on MF without a DL now can we.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 01, 2015, 05:51:35 PM
Quote
If your talking about the demo well that's what it is since you need a mixer for functionality.

The Mac editor does all the things the iPad doesn't, even in demo mode, without an X18 attached. I'm basing my claim on this quote:

Quote
The iPad app is not fully functional at this point, not only with the FX but the P16 end of things and the RTA end to name a few.

Perhaps my source is wrong. Can you indeed switch effects from your iPad? RTA all good? Uli's personal response to that post was that there's a new version coming.

The thing I actually am curious about, is do the Dynamics and EQ display in the channel strip when enabled? QSC's don't, and it drives me nuts. The Mac X-Air Edit does, so I'm hoping the iPad will as well.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 01, 2015, 07:06:56 PM
So, they're shipping a device that can't be used as intended? Nice.

Both Mackie and QSC shipped with, at best, minimally functional iPad apps.
Yes and so did Behringer.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 01, 2015, 07:28:52 PM
Quote
If your talking about the demo well that's what it is since you need a mixer for functionality.

The Mac editor does all the things the iPad doesn't, even in demo mode, without an X18 attached. I'm basing my claim on this quote:

Quote
The iPad app is not fully functional at this point, not only with the FX but the P16 end of things and the RTA end to name a few.

Perhaps my source is wrong. Can you indeed switch effects from your iPad? RTA all good? Uli's personal response to that post was that there's a new version coming.

The thing I actually am curious about, is do the Dynamics and EQ display in the channel strip when enabled? QSC's don't, and it drives me nuts. The Mac X-Air Edit does, so I'm hoping the iPad will as well.
Since the Mac app is the latest release and you can luckily download it from the Mfg. site then maybe it would be good to wait until the control freaks at Apple get around to letting you download the iPad version. I won't be spending any time on the initial release other than to check out the basics. FX is also low on my list since I rarely ever use them. There seems to be a new pandemic called Mackie Alzheimers going around, due to the fact that Mackie wiped your memory of it's start-up, recorded on the former Mackie Forum.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 01, 2015, 07:37:48 PM
I won't be spending any time on the initial release other than to check out the basics.

 :thu: :lol:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 02, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
maybe it would be good to wait until the control freaks at Apple get around to letting you download the iPad version.

Well, that happened. They added presets. Whooo! No FX access, no routing, and no indication of active DYN or EQ. Still claiming it's non-beta?

With the knobs only EQ display, tiny little position indicators, an ambiguous EQ ON switch, the high pass on a separate page, and no indication of any of this on the channel strip, it looks very difficult to tell if anything's engaged or zeroed or what. Is it any different when hooked up to an XR18? I actually quite like the look and functionality of the Mac editor, but this iPad version I wouldn't be comfortable mixing on.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on March 02, 2015, 03:34:17 PM
I just tried the update. It still looks like a demo with all the animations running all over the place. I sure that this all goes away when you connect to the mixer? I guess you have to learn it to like it? But I don't think I would like to run it on the iPad as well. I guess I'm spoiled for Master Fader.  :laugh: And I seriously considered the X18R as a viable option too.  :(
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 02, 2015, 06:47:06 PM
Quite frankly with the surface pro three at $699 why would you bother with a crippled tablet that makes you check with Apple every time you need to relieve yourself? Other brands are even more inexpensive. Android based devices are really inexpensive and would be a better choice anyways for the low end. You can actually increase the viewing and control surface using multiples, without breaking the bank. ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 02, 2015, 06:54:53 PM
That's a reasonable suggestion. I'll just toss these 5 iDevices and these 2558 apps, shall I? I mean, it's not like anyone has made a claim that Behringer has a non-beta iPad app, or anything.

You know, I think I'll just wait for full functionality before Uli gets my money. Thanks for the help, though.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on March 02, 2015, 07:16:37 PM
Quite frankly with the surface pro three at $699 why would you bother with a crippled tablet that makes you check with Apple every time you need to relieve yourself? Other brands are even more inexpensive. Android based devices are really inexpensive and would be a better choice anyways for the low end. You can actually increase the viewing and control surface using multiples, without breaking the bank. ;)

Have you actually used a Surface Pro (or other Windows 8.x system)? Talk about checking in with the mother ship. No, thank you.

Cheers!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 02, 2015, 07:38:53 PM
No-one suggested you throwing your iDevices away, with 2558 (really) what's one app more or less? ;) In your case waiting is good. I come from the Software world the definition of Beta in the Software Industry and mine clearly differ from yours. Lack of functionality doesn't make it a Beta.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 02, 2015, 07:43:55 PM
Quite frankly with the surface pro three at $699 why would you bother with a crippled tablet that makes you check with Apple every time you need to relieve yourself? Other brands are even more inexpensive. Android based devices are really inexpensive and would be a better choice anyways for the low end. You can actually increase the viewing and control surface using multiples, without breaking the bank. ;)

Have you actually used a Surface Pro (or other Windows 8.x system)? Talk about checking in with the mother ship. No, thank you

Cheers!
You'd rather have mommy Apple do it all for you? Wouldn't want you to get hurt moving all those heavy files. :) Yes to the rest but my main systems are Windows 7 soon to be W 10 (9). ;) W 8.x is a dog.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on March 02, 2015, 07:51:21 PM
Quite frankly with the surface pro three at $699 why would you bother with a crippled tablet that makes you check with Apple every time you need to relieve yourself? Other brands are even more inexpensive. Android based devices are really inexpensive and would be a better choice anyways for the low end. You can actually increase the viewing and control surface using multiples, without breaking the bank. ;)

Have you actually used a Surface Pro (or other Windows 8.x system)? Talk about checking in with the mother ship. No, thank you

Cheers!
You'd rather have mommy Apple do it all for you? Wouldn't want you to get hurt moving all those heavy files. :) Yes to the rest but my main systems are Windows 7 soon to be W 10 (9). ;) W 8.x is a dog.

Well, my iDevices, my iMac, and my MacBooks all work flawlessly, so ... yes. My Android devices have all been absolute crap. And, well, as you said, Windows 8.x.... :) Maybe Windows 10 will be better (I have been playing with the pre-release version a little in a virtual machine on my Mac, and it seems to run fairly well), but frankly, I've given up on M$.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on March 02, 2015, 08:03:40 PM
Quite frankly with the surface pro three at $699 why would you bother with a crippled tablet that makes you check with Apple every time you need to relieve yourself? Other brands are even more inexpensive. Android based devices are really inexpensive and would be a better choice anyways for the low end. You can actually increase the viewing and control surface using multiples, without breaking the bank. ;)

So you're saying you just "rent" apple and associated gear? Sorry, couldn't resist.   :angel:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: frankiebass1 on March 02, 2015, 09:35:58 PM
Does anyone know what WiFi this supports?  Is the built-in WiFi hotspot all 2.4G or is it dual band?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 02, 2015, 10:45:08 PM
Maybe Windows 10 will be better (I have been playing with the pre-release version a little in a virtual machine on my Mac, and it seems to run fairly well), but frankly, I've given up on M$.
Actually Windows 10 hardly sucks at all if you install "Classic Shell" over it's fugly brain-dead GUI  ;D .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 05, 2015, 07:51:28 AM
Back to OP topic. Behringer announced the publication of the control protocol for 3rd party apps. Let's see Mackie cough up Mandolin specs. :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 05, 2015, 10:11:43 AM
You guys can't have your cake and eat it too,

What do you want, shaky software where the provider listens to your feedback and changes it and ultimately gets it how you want it

Or

Long awaited Completely stable software with no revision and no impending changes because it is how it is and you better like it or lump it.

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 05, 2015, 12:46:08 PM
You guys can't have your cake and eat it too,

Of course we can. Reaper is in constant development. Very responsive, very rapid revision turnaround, very stable.

There's no reason a hardware/firmware company can't be the same.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 05, 2015, 12:48:35 PM
Back to OP topic. Behringer announced the publication of the control protocol for 3rd party apps. Let's see Mackie cough up Mandolin specs. :)

Absolutely excellent. They report that OSC is already working. If they did it right, and made all functions accessible, anybody can roll their own interface, including bridging to hardware controllers. The question of lag remains to be answered, of course.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 05, 2015, 03:25:11 PM
Back to OP topic. Behringer announced the publication of the control protocol for 3rd party apps. Let's see Mackie cough up Mandolin specs. :)

Absolutely excellent. They report that OSC is already working. If they did it right, and made all functions accessible, anybody can roll their own interface, including bridging to hardware controllers. The question of lag remains to be answered, of course.
Nothing really new, it's been the norm for installed audio equipment co. such as Polycom, ClearOne, etc. for the past decade to publish their comm specs. You have third party developers even providing development tools. Behringers motivation probably stems from the fact that Linux is used as a basis for Midas and other gear. Too bad Mackie hasn't a clue.
For those interested in the announcement go here.  http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6378-3rd-Party-Apps-for-X-AIR
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 03:25:48 PM
Back to OP topic. Behringer announced the publication of the control protocol for 3rd party apps. Let's see Mackie cough up Mandolin specs. :)
I had assumed that the protocol for the X-Air was the same as the one for the X32 series? That's was released long ago...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 05, 2015, 03:32:47 PM
Publishing specs and APIs is one thing. Making them compatible with, or at least easily converted to, a standard like OSC is quite another.

Might not be that hard to build a mixer in Reaper that controlled the XR18's functions instead of doing all of the heavy lifting on your laptop. Hooking it up to several Korg NanoKontrols or whatever should be damned near trivial. That's cool shit. I expect they got there by looking at the range of things that have been done with their own controllers.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 03:42:01 PM
Nothing really new, it's been the norm for installed audio equipment co. such as Polycom, ClearOne, etc. for the past decade to publish their comm specs. You have third party developers even providing development tools. Behringers motivation probably stems from the fact that Linux is used as a basis for Midas and other gear. Too bad Mackie hasn't a clue.
For those interested in the announcement go here.  http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6378-3rd-Party-Apps-for-X-AIR
The problem with publishing your protocol is that it has to be robust. I suspect Mackie hasn't put in the effort yet to prevent theirs from going into recto-cranial inversion when fed bad parameters. It's quite a lot of work to program and test that 100% - I've a bit of experience doing that on flight controls where failure is most definitely not an option ;) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 05, 2015, 04:03:30 PM
Back to OP topic. Behringer announced the publication of the control protocol for 3rd party apps. Let's see Mackie cough up Mandolin specs. :)
I had assumed that the protocol for the X-Air was the same as the one for the X32 series? That's was released long ago...
Yes it's OSC with enhancements by Behringer.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 05, 2015, 04:16:44 PM
Nothing really new, it's been the norm for installed audio equipment co. such as Polycom, ClearOne, etc. for the past decade to publish their comm specs. You have third party developers even providing development tools. Behringers motivation probably stems from the fact that Linux is used as a basis for Midas and other gear. Too bad Mackie hasn't a clue.
For those interested in the announcement go here.  http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6378-3rd-Party-Apps-for-X-AIR
The problem with publishing your protocol is that it has to be robust. I suspect Mackie hasn't put in the effort yet to prevent theirs from going into recto-cranial inversion when fed bad parameters. It's quite a lot of work to program and test that 100% - I've a bit of experience doing that on flight controls where failure is most definitely not an option ;) .
The protocol isn't the problem it's the receiver that has the job of determining the validity of the message. The comm part of course needs to be efficient and able to handle retries etc. It's software so 99.99% is what you get if your lucky :).
P.S. I think you got the wrong end of the problem, it's Mackies anal retentive believe that secret sauce is going to be the road to success. How wrong can you be Mackie.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 04:32:11 PM
The protocol isn't the problem it's the receiver that has the job of determining the validity of the message.
That's what I meant :) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 05, 2015, 04:42:33 PM
The protocol isn't the problem it's the receiver that has the job of determining the validity of the message.
That's what I meant :) .
Waiting to hear about that static IP results.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 05:03:07 PM
Waiting to hear about that static IP results.
I did set a static IP into the DL1608, now waiting on the Wireless AP to arrive so's I can properly test it all working without a DHCP server or router :) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 05, 2015, 05:13:21 PM
I did set a static IP into the DL1608, now waiting on the Wireless AP to arrive so's I can properly test it all working without a DHCP server or router :) .

Be very surprised if it doesn't. Lotsa folks run the Ubiquiti Bullets on big shows with no DHCP server. If you set it all manually, the startup is instantaneous.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 05:24:48 PM
I did set a static IP into the DL1608, now waiting on the Wireless AP to arrive so's I can properly test it all working without a DHCP server or router :) .

Be every surprised if it doesn't. Lotsa folks run the Ubiquiti Bullets on big shows with no DHCP server. If you set it all manually, the startup is instantaneous.
I'm looking forward to not having to do the "will it or won't it get an IP" dance with the DL1608 :) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 05, 2015, 05:50:49 PM
I set all of my mixers to 192.168.0.128, same as Yamaha's default. Plug in whatever, and go. I only have to do something about it if I'm running a submixer or multiple stages.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 06:24:39 PM
I set all of my mixers to 192.168.0.128, same as Yamaha's default. Plug in whatever, and go. I only have to do something about it if I'm running a submixer or multiple stages.
What do you set your iPads to?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on March 05, 2015, 06:39:29 PM
There is an advantage to using a static IP address for the mixers and ipads.  Then you can limit the devices that your WiFi sees.  Adds another layer of difficulty for hackers without a performance penalty. 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 05, 2015, 06:40:29 PM
Quote
What do you set your iPads to?

DHCP, for now. I'm looking at the EnGenius ENS500EXT Long Range WAP for graduations, though, in which case I'll sit down and make a chart and static them all, at least when connecting to that WAP.

Which one are you getting?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 05, 2015, 06:49:50 PM
Unfortunately in typical half baked Mackie fashion I see no way to set the mask. No info either. Using what port etc.?  Maybe someone could call tech support and squeeze it out of them.
Gets worst they have no means of deleting the one fixed IP address . Pure amateur job.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 08:41:51 PM
Unfortunately in typical half baked Mackie fashion I see no way to set the mask. No info either. Using what port etc.?  Maybe someone could call tech support and squeeze it out of them.
Gets worst they have no means of deleting the one fixed IP address . Pure amateur job.
I had to enter a Mask? and a Gateway - can't figure out what good that does to the DL1608? I set the IP to 192.168.0.168 ( 1608 without the zero ;) , the mask to 255.255.255.0 and the gateway to 192.168.0.1 just because .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 05, 2015, 10:03:15 PM
Unfortunately in typical half baked Mackie fashion I see no way to set the mask. No info either. Using what port etc.?  Maybe someone could call tech support and squeeze it out of them.
Gets worst they have no means of deleting the one fixed IP address . Pure amateur job.
I had to enter a Mask? and a Gateway - can't figure out what good that does to the DL1608? I set the IP to 192.168.0.168 ( 1608 without the zero ;) , the mask to 255.255.255.0 and the gateway to 192.168.0.1 just because .
Could be since I did this without the DL connected so they ask for a mask and gateway that's good. Does the delete (red minus symbol) show up in setup when connected?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 05, 2015, 11:14:30 PM
Could be since I did this without the DL connected so they ask for a mask and gateway that's good. Does the delete (red minus symbol) show up in setup when connected?
I've got it packed up again, I'll try to remember to look when next I have it out (probably not until the AP comes in). So, why does the DL1608 need to know the gateway (AKA router) address? Obviously I'm not going to have one...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Harpman on March 06, 2015, 06:55:44 PM
for every user who wants 32 channels there are probably 100 dying for a decent compact desk,
More like 1000 IMO. But I suppose if Behringer could overcome their past reputation to become the #1 selling digital mixer family Mackie has a shot too :) .

RR, before Mackie, all I ever owned was Behringer analog boards and never had any issues.  Even with their FX, Cross-overs, EQ units.  They did have a bad rap in the past, but that may have been close to a decade ago.  I can't stand their speakers though.  Even with EQ, they sound boxy. Who makes a good monitor speaker is Altos.  I have two of their TR112's and our drummer uses a TR115.  800 watts for under $300 US isn't bad.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 08, 2015, 11:21:21 AM
Had to do a gig through another acts Behringer plastic 12s yesterday, bloody horrible, the lady said next time you come back we will have Loads of these new  berry versions with the MP3 player built in..



 :facepalm:

99% of the acts I know here use berry mixers, I would say they are pretty reliable and are good value. But the speakers, yuk.

Mackie seem to be beating all of their speakers with the ugly stick lately too.

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 08, 2015, 03:47:15 PM
Had to do a gig through another acts Behringer plastic 12s yesterday, bloody horrible, the lady said next time you come back we will have Loads of these new  berry versions with the MP3 player built in..
:facepalm:
99% of the acts I know here use berry mixers, I would say they are pretty reliable and are good value. But the speakers, yuk.
Mackie seem to be beating all of their speakers with the ugly stick lately too.
Kev
Actually the higher end Behringer speakers are pretty decent - I have a pair of B412DSP's that I don't use anymore solely due to their being stoopid heavy . One of our fellow DL owners has the newer Neo version of those and they are MUCH lighter and still sound fine. I also have four of their low end B208D's and - while they have a bit of their own "sound" - they are fine too, I've used them at weddings and other low volume gigs for both canned music and live. I've even used them behind a 7 piece classic rock group with no subs or monitors! (Wynn would be lovin that ;) ). I've used a pair of the older B215A's as monitors too (venue's rig) and had no problem with them. I've never used their passives but I assume the same thing would happen as with my Peavey PR10 actives vs passives - the actives sound quite a bit better due to the processing and biamping.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 09, 2015, 07:58:52 PM
My mates use the cheap berry 12s RR, they are ok, but you know what I mean, yes they have their own sound that's fair,

I don't know how thomann make any money on them, as they seem to vacation in Germany a lot, I offered to repair a blown 12 neo for one bloke, the care group where very efficient to be fair and offerd to ship a new chassis to Alicante for 200 euros, the whole speaker can be bought and delivered with guarantee for 222?

Incredible disposable world in which we live

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on March 14, 2015, 09:08:09 PM
The xr18 is something I'd be interested in but it needs to be cheaper in the UK and work as expected. Looks like a few have been sent back by owners due to problems software & hardware related, not encouraging for a potential buyer. Plus, iOS seems to be getting less priority than other versions of the control software which sucks for me.
All the flapping at the Behringer forum looks to have distracted a few of the regular posters here.
All quiet on the Mackie front, everything working as it should be! (For me anyway!) :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: stevegarris on March 14, 2015, 09:23:49 PM
Yep. All I'm hearing is that the iPad app is incomplete, and not user friendly.

Had a wonderful gig last night with my rock solid, consistent DL ver 2. It was a new band for me, and I'm convinced I had the best mix I've ever had at this club.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on March 14, 2015, 10:16:22 PM
The xr18 is something I'd be interested in but it needs to be cheaper in the UK and work as expected. Looks like a few have been sent back by owners due to problems software & hardware related, not encouraging for a potential buyer. Plus, iOS seems to be getting less priority than other versions of the control software which sucks for me.
All the flapping at the Behringer forum looks to have distracted a few of the regular posters here.
All quiet on the Mackie front, everything working as it should be! (For me anyway!) :)

I offer if nothing else other than opinion that a majority of issues with the XR18 is due to pilot error, based on my having monitored the new X-Air Forum category since its inception.
For the most part would it not be a fair statement to say that anything produced outside of the E.U. needs to be cheaper for you in the U.K. ?
The iOS app is apparently the weakest in the HW/SW link, resulting in the most to be desired for addressing.
Quiet here I would suggest due to a lot of thunder elsewhere in the industry and retail market, and in all fairness to Mackie, the relatively recent releases and response to issues from Woodinville.
I would be very interested in the numbers of units shipped, sold, and ultimately returned of all brands & models from the various manufacturers of this market segment, just to be real when discussing.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on March 14, 2015, 11:00:34 PM
Yep. All I'm hearing is that the iPad app is incomplete, and not user friendly.

Had a wonderful gig last night with my rock solid, consistent DL ver 2. It was a new band for me, and I'm convinced I had the best mix I've ever had at this club.

I was one of those who voiced the opinion that the B*******r app(s) were not ready for prime time. I had another look at it yesterday, and there have been some changes to it since I last looked. It's still not as friendly as the Master Fader/My Fader combination. But, there have been some additions that I didn't see in the previous iteration, and it's actually starting to be a pretty nice app. I would say that, if the XR18 had been available when I bought my DL (with the software at the point it is now), I'd've probably bought the XR18.

With that said, I am still quite pleased with my DL1608, and feel no particular compulsion to ditch it for what may or may not be greener pastures. I would love to have a recallable gain control, but having the trim in MF3 is a help. If Mackie were to decide to come out with 18- or 24-channel rack-mount version, I would be tempted to melt a credit card for that.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on March 15, 2015, 08:45:45 AM
The xr18 is something I'd be interested in but it needs to be cheaper in the UK and work as expected. Looks like a few have been sent back by owners due to problems software & hardware related, not encouraging for a potential buyer. Plus, iOS seems to be getting less priority than other versions of the control software which sucks for me.
All the flapping at the Behringer forum looks to have distracted a few of the regular posters here.
All quiet on the Mackie front, everything working as it should be! (For me anyway!) :)

I offer if nothing else other than opinion that a majority of issues with the XR18 is due to pilot error, based on my having monitored the new X-Air Forum category since its inception.
For the most part would it not be a fair statement to say that anything produced outside of the E.U. needs to be cheaper for you in the U.K. ?
The iOS app is apparently the weakest in the HW/SW link, resulting in the most to be desired for addressing.
Quiet here I would suggest due to a lot of thunder elsewhere in the industry and retail market, and in all fairness to Mackie, the relatively recent releases and response to issues from Woodinville.
I would be very interested in the numbers of units shipped, sold, and ultimately returned of all brands & models from the various manufacturers of this market segment, just to be real when discussing.
Regarding a lot of consumer goods, we generally pay £ to $ here in the UK. Not just from Behringer but from a range of manufacturers. I'm not sure of the exact proportions but it makes a "budget" brand rather expensive here.
If the XR was the equivalent of the U.S. price I would buy, warts and all, and take a chance. But it isn't, so I won't. Not yet anyway.
I'm not sure how much better Behringer service is here in the UK today, but previously in my experience, it sucked.
However it is over ten years at least since I had any dealings with them.

Pilot error will definitely be a factor but some of what I read seemed to be just hardware issues.
On this occasion I wasn't trying to be scientific, just making an observation that units had been returned.
As consumers, I doubt we'll ever get accurate figures regarding sales and returns.

Good luck to anyone who buys any new piece of equipment from any manufacturer.
I share a kinship with anyone who makes their living (or part of it) from the music business and depends on their equipment.
I wish success to everyone.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 15, 2015, 09:33:09 AM
I find it incredible that a few blokes on the b forum advance ordered and then threatened to return their x air units, as they did not like the app, surely with a product like this, you jump in and get on with it, or hold on a few months and see how it goes, and then buy one.

I am gutted that they rolled out the 18 first, this sector is  generally well catered for, they should have gave us the the 12 first because the cheap  low ch count digital mixer is still a pretty neglected area imho.

Cheers


Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on March 16, 2015, 06:59:00 PM
I find it incredible that a few blokes on the b forum advance ordered and then threatened to return their x air units, as they did not like the app, surely with a product like this, you jump in and get on with it, or hold on a few months and see how it goes, and then buy one.
I am gutted that they rolled out the 18 first, this sector is  generally well catered for, they should have gave us the the 12 first because the cheap  low ch count digital mixer is still a pretty neglected area imho. Cheers Kev

Kev, I do believe a possible solution to your wundabox FX stomp pedal feature has been referenced in the provided link.
http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6590-SOLO-MUSICIANS-dedicated-mixer

Frankly, I would think after a year and a half of 500 plus posts over in BigB land, and with a solution at hand, one would jump in and get on with it full monty.
Still hoping for ya. ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 17, 2015, 09:06:16 AM
Hi  James.


I have not mentioned footswitches that's another groan for another post,

How do you expect me to jump in and purchase the x12 when it does not exist in big shop land yet?



Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on March 17, 2015, 01:36:40 PM
Hi  James.
I have not mentioned footswitches that's another groan for another post,
How do you expect me to jump in and purchase the x12 when it does not exist in big shop land yet?
Kev, surely you jest. A simple search of the word `footswitch'  in both this forum and BigB provides ample evidence of your sentiments about said topic.
Understand that upon release of the XR12, you then may choose to dance full monty. Though one could purchase an XR18 from Thoman and return within the allowed period if found not to satisfaction.
You are one hell of a tire kicker, but you know, I think I may speak for more than myself when I state that we are cheering for you and holding out hope for the answer to your dreams. ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 20, 2015, 12:04:54 PM
Hi James

I know I have been moderately vocal about footswitches, but with relation to this thread it was you who brought that up,  :)

To be honest mate I have been tyre kicking the Dl for some time now and I am still in the market for one but would like the x too, wife and baby are not convinced...

I did come close last month to purchasing  the 806 but analogue  Allen and heath won in the end, I am actually working with some acts who don't know what an fx mute is, don't know what a parametric is for, and this ultimately steered my purchase.

I did knock up a  fx switch last week with a relay and a battery and and a couple of xlrs and I am sad to say that the old footswitch gripe has been addressed,

But with relation to this moan, I still wish the 12 would have been the first baby x released, it's not like you guys don't have a choice of  affordable 16+ Channel digital mixers is it?

Cheers

Kev :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 22, 2015, 06:13:37 AM
Back to the OP subject matter. All you ever wanted to know about the XR18 hardware.
http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6669-XR18-Spytopsy
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on March 22, 2015, 10:29:15 AM
Back to the OP subject matter. All you ever wanted to know about the XR18 hardware.
http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6669-XR18-Spytopsy
Speaking of which, curious what has become of the OP since that first AND only post on this forum.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on March 22, 2015, 11:34:46 AM
Back to the OP subject matter. All you ever wanted to know about the XR18 hardware.
http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?6669-XR18-Spytopsy
Speaking of which, curious what has become of the OP since that first AND only post on this forum.
Maybe we should put his picture on the back of milk cartons?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 22, 2015, 12:11:44 PM
Sent you a pm james :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 22, 2015, 02:13:28 PM
Speaking of which, curious what has become of the OP since that first AND only post on this forum.
Maybe he's hanging out at the official Behringer forums like we all used to hang out at the official Mackie forums ;) ? Makes sense...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on March 22, 2015, 02:18:01 PM
Speaking of which, curious what has become of the OP since that first AND only post on this forum.
Maybe he's hanging out at the official Behringer forums like we all used to hang out at the official Mackie forums ;) ? Makes sense...
Maybe as a DL owner he decided he was better off with what he had, given that it works and is a known quantity?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 22, 2015, 02:27:03 PM
Right now the X-Air is too wonky for any DL1608 owners to switch to IMO. But Mackie shouldn't be slacking off on getting their stuff up to snuff for sure...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on March 22, 2015, 02:38:10 PM
Right now the X-Air is too wonky for any DL1608 owners to switch to IMO. But Mackie shouldn't be slacking off on getting their stuff up to snuff for sure...
Agree totally RR!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on March 29, 2015, 10:26:58 PM
Here's why I wish Mackie and QSC would implement MIDI, or better yet, OSC.

Fully wireless mix position, with physical controls. The MIDI Fighter Twister controller is mapped as 16 faders. Each knob is also a mute switch, status indicated by red/green. It's plugged into the iPad Mini, which powers it. An iPad app called MIDI Bridge uses the iPad's wifi to pass the controller data to a Macbook. The Macbook runs Bome's MIDI Translator Pro, which passes the controller's data to the mixer hardware via a USB cable. The iPad also runs XR-Edit, which gives me meters, and access to all of the mixer's other controls as needed. All of this communication is bidirectional, so any adjustment anywhere is mirrored everywhere. Once Uli Behringer releases the underlying OSC protocol for the mixer, I'll be able to eliminate the Macbook from the chain. On the other hand, in a tough rf environment, I can plug it all into a laptop and have it hardwired.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on March 30, 2015, 05:09:18 AM
My 2010 MacBook Pro has a much better WiFi antenna then the ipads.   
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on March 30, 2015, 07:48:59 AM
The future is bright, you just have to be patient, as I suggested a few months back the iPad is the perfect unit to enable the realization of a wireless physical remote for these knob less desks that are being thrust upon us. This is the first unit I have seen I am not in to midi,  but it won't be the last I bet.

Kev

Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ezywave on April 03, 2015, 09:31:42 AM
For those of us in Europe: just received notification that the X18 is now available at Bax shop for 969Ä.
Not for me though I will happily stay with my DL1608. In combination with the latest MasterFader it has served me very well so far.
Cheers, Ezywave
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 03, 2015, 01:30:43 PM
iPad XAir update is live. Graphic mode parametric EQs, full effects editing, stuff and things. Haven't tried it yet.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 03, 2015, 04:08:12 PM
Yes I had to delete the app and reload before it worked. The usual pundits at Beh... forum rushing to conclusions about it after 10 minutes of test, really. ;D
Looks good so far. RTA alive and well as well as other missing functions. Mackie time to sharpen those coding pencils. No disconnects so far. :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 04, 2015, 08:31:47 AM
1000 euros for the xair 18 vs 1300 for the x32 rack,
Is this enough of a price differential ?

Thomann are suggesting the unit is out of stock until May,

I guess the xair 12 will be the last item in the range to hit the shops.

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 04, 2015, 12:45:30 PM
1000 euros for the xair 18 vs 1300 for the x32 rack,
Is this enough of a price differential ?

Thomann are suggesting the unit is out of stock until May,

I guess the xair 12 will be the last item in the range to hit the shops.

Kev

The UK/Europe price of it will probably be disproportionately high too. Do you think it will be as cheap as a DL806 is now.....?
If the xr12 was cheap enough I'd maybe buy one just to see what it's like. I'm curious about it.
If it worked well it would be a handy little thing to have but any higher than £250 and it would be of no interest to me.
By the time it arrives maybe all teething problems will be ironed out?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 04, 2015, 01:31:40 PM
Hi Robbo

I am worrying that by the time it arrives, my teeth will be in a glass mate,

What is the main difference between the 18 rack and the 18 console non physical differences I mean,

Is there any need for two units?

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 04, 2015, 06:16:38 PM
Dunno Kev,
Never spent a lot of time comparing them!
Attention directed elsewhere  ;) :thu:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 04, 2015, 06:22:59 PM
Iíve got my fingers crossed for some new toys from Mackie coming soon. Maybe even this year. Who knows?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 04, 2015, 07:10:45 PM
It's my birthday on the 18th, I got my pressie a bit early .... >:D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 04, 2015, 07:29:16 PM
A 2u rack mount DL that would fit in a shallow rack would be brill KM... ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 04, 2015, 08:05:49 PM
It's my birthday on the 18th, I got my pressie a bit early .... >:D

Very nice!  :thu: :thu:

And I'll bet you're still gonna want birthday cake too, on your birthday of course. Nice b'day present. Your family won't remember what you look like since you're going to be so busy with your new present, disappearing into your man cave.

It's always fun to get an early birthday present, isn't it? And just in case, Happy Early Birthday!!! No birthday cake but this might give you some ideas for the upcoming Birthday.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 05, 2015, 12:49:21 AM
It's my birthday on the 18th, I got my pressie a bit early .... >:D

Very nice!  :thu: :thu:

And I'll bet you're still gonna want birthday cake too, on your birthday of course. Nice b'day present. Your family won't remember what you look like since you're going to be so busy with your new present, disappearing into your man cave.

It's always fun to get an early birthday present, isn't it? And just in case, Happy Early Birthday!!! No birthday cake but this might give you some ideas for the upcoming Birthday.
Aww thanks KM, that cake was awesome - many thanks👍😉
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 05, 2015, 01:27:37 AM
It's my birthday on the 18th, I got my pressie a bit early .... >:D

Very nice!  :thu: :thu:

And I'll bet you're still gonna want birthday cake too, on your birthday of course. Nice b'day present. Your family won't remember what you look like since you're going to be so busy with your new present, disappearing into your man cave.

It's always fun to get an early birthday present, isn't it? And just in case, Happy Early Birthday!!! No birthday cake but this might give you some ideas for the upcoming Birthday.
Aww thanks KM, that cake was awesome - many thanks👍😉

You're welcome!

Now you have to go buy a real Black Forest Cake! Now I have to go buy a Black Forest Cake too!!!!!  :angel:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 05, 2015, 07:52:10 AM
It's my birthday on the 18th, I got my pressie a bit early .... >:D

Very nice!  :thu: :thu:

And I'll bet you're still gonna want birthday cake too, on your birthday of course. Nice b'day present. Your family won't remember what you look like since you're going to be so busy with your new present, disappearing into your man cave.

It's always fun to get an early birthday present, isn't it? And just in case, Happy Early Birthday!!! No birthday cake but this might give you some ideas for the upcoming Birthday.
Aww thanks KM, that cake was awesome - many thanks👍😉

You're welcome!

Now you have to go buy a real Black Forest Cake! Now I have to go buy a Black Forest Cake too!!!!!  :angel:
Lol, I will but don't make me eat it all myself. I'm trying to drop a little weight to be best man at my friends wedding at the end of June....
He's been taking his time, getting married for the first time at 48 to a thirty something. He's a great guy and she's a lovely girl. He looks 35  all day long the jammy sod. I look 36 <cough, ahem> lol
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 05, 2015, 12:06:07 PM
Cheers guys

And enjoy the cake and all them channels, Oh to be popular.

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 05, 2015, 01:35:01 PM
Cheers guys

And enjoy the cake and all them channels, Oh to be popular.

 :)
Well I like you Kev, here have this. Hope you don't mind I took a bit  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 05, 2015, 01:36:03 PM
Thanks so much mate

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 05, 2015, 05:48:43 PM
Cheers guys

And enjoy the cake and all them channels, Oh to be popular.

 :)
Well I like you Kev, here have this. Hope you don't mind I took a bit  :)

Mmmmm, cake.  Gotta watch the waist line too, unfortunately  :'(  :lol:  I forgot. My number one rule is Desert before Dinner!  :angel:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 08, 2015, 04:13:53 AM
Waiting to hear about that static IP results.
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=956 8)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Ben Dover on April 09, 2015, 02:45:06 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA
Wifi connectivity
Noisy channels
Phantom power issues
etc, etc, etc

Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here.
One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.
Oh the hypocrisy.....
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 09, 2015, 04:32:41 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA
Wifi connectivity
Noisy channels
Phantom power issues
etc, etc, etc

Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here.
One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.
Oh the hypocrisy.....
Where do you get that information? Do you work for Sweetwater or Behringer? Are you basing it on Vernon's unit? Really!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on April 09, 2015, 04:34:05 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA Wifi connectivity Noisy channels Phantom power issues etc, etc, etc
Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here. One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.Oh the hypocrisy

Bend Over, you first. Care to substantiate your allegation, perhaps after a proper greeting and/or introduction? Cheers
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 09, 2015, 04:36:40 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA
Wifi connectivity
Noisy channels
Phantom power issues
etc, etc, etc

Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here.
One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.
Oh the hypocrisy.....
I'm looking at this as an opportunity for Mackie to "catch up" with what features they can implement on the existing hardware :) .
Obviously Behringer's choice of single antenna single band WiFi was a poor one and makes us all appreciate Mackie's choice of having just a port for the user to choose the quality of WiFi the want :) .

I'm sure looking forward to more/better FX though, after drooling over what the XR18 gives you :angel: .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 09, 2015, 04:40:25 PM
Bend Over, you first. Care to substantiate your allegation, perhaps after a proper greeting and/or introduction? Cheers
I believe that Ben Dover is actually his real name, I've run into him on another forum. OTOH I suspect he's used to being disbelieved ;) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 09, 2015, 04:54:14 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA
Wifi connectivity
Noisy channels
Phantom power issues
etc, etc, etc

Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here.
One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.
Oh the hypocrisy.....
I'm looking at this as an opportunity for Mackie to "catch up" with what features they can implement on the existing hardware :) .
Obviously Behringer's choice of single antenna single band WiFi was a poor one and makes us all appreciate Mackie's choice of having just a port for the user to choose the quality of WiFi the want :) .

I'm sure looking forward to more/better FX though, after drooling over what the XR18 gives you :angel: .
Well that's a first, being dinged for having 3 choices (including Mackie's) instead of one. ;D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Ben Dover on April 09, 2015, 05:10:16 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA Wifi connectivity Noisy channels Phantom power issues etc, etc, etc
Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here. One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.Oh the hypocrisy

Bend Over, you first. Care to substantiate your allegation, perhaps after a proper greeting and/or introduction? Cheers
Well I didn't think I had to make a debutant post with formal greetings and a full bio, is that the norm here?
Anyone can substantiate my observations (allegations are for the courtroom) by reading posts on the Behringer X-Air forum as I have done.

Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 09, 2015, 05:12:53 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA
Wifi connectivity
Noisy channels
Phantom power issues
etc, etc, etc

Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here.
One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.
Oh the hypocrisy.....

I'm on my 3rd DL1608, having swapped it out twice.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 09, 2015, 05:15:48 PM
Well I didn't think I had to make a debutant post with formal greetings and a full bio, is that the norm here?
Not to worry, this here pub gets a bit rowdy after a couple pints ;) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on April 09, 2015, 07:19:54 PM
Looks like they're having problems with the XR18, a lot of units are being swapped out due to:
DOA
Wifi connectivity
Noisy channels
Phantom power issues
etc, etc, etc

Mackie wouldn't get away with that level of a mess, not with some of the posters here.
One rule for Mackie and another rule for Behringer.
Oh the hypocrisy.....
Where do you get that information? Do you work for Sweetwater or Behringer? Are you basing it on Vernon's unit? Really!

Might actually have been based on Dick Rubwright`s unit. :o
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 09, 2015, 07:50:56 PM
That makes it two unit's WOW!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 09, 2015, 07:53:32 PM
"When in Trouble, When in Doubt - Run Around, Scream and Shout" x( :lol:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 09, 2015, 08:04:53 PM
TBF Mackie haven't been entirely free from trouble with the DL series. I have a foot in both camps, DL 1608 and X32 Compact and Rack, At work I use A&H iLive and GLD but I don't follow their forums. I suspect they have a similar fail rate (percentage wise) to the "unprofessional" (I quote a tech rider I had to deal with last year) kit from Berry and Mackie. I can't speak for the XRs but with over 300,000 X32s out in the wild there should be far more failures than are being reported on the forums. Equally the DLs, while having a few issues (none with mine BTW though I have reverted to MF Classic as my iPads are old school), are proving to be extremely useful. Mine is for sale but I won't sell cheap, if it doesn't make a decent return I'd rather keep it for bar gigs and as a backup.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 10, 2015, 08:52:28 PM
At work I use A&H iLive and GLD but I don't follow their forums. I suspect they have a similar fail rate (percentage wise) to the "unprofessional" (I quote a tech rider I had to deal with last year) kit from Berry and Mackie.

Actually, I doubt it. I can't recall hearing of a common issue with any Yamaha console outside of the early (LS9? 01V96? I forget which) faders that didn't have seals, and I'd be shocked if my LS9 failed in any way. Likewise, my QSC TouchMix is a solid piece of kit, hardwarewise. Better really is better. QSC totally screwed the pooch on their software design, but it does what they designed it to do, limitations and all. Some amount of failure is absolutely my expectation with Mackie and Behringer. That's why I'm not particularly upset that I'm on my 3rd DL1608 and my 2nd XR18, or that I had to buy a 3rd party power supply beat the grounding issue on my DL.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 10, 2015, 09:11:29 PM
A&H have probably only sold a few thousand iLives and GLDs, Mackie seem to be pretty silent regarding sales rates but I suspect DLs will also be in the thousands or low tens of thousands not the hundreds of thousands, Berry have sold over 300,000 X32s so far (in three years or so). Berry's fail rates are clearly amongst the best out (i.e. lower than most) I've heard under 4% mentioned. The big name manufacturers would be delighted with those numbers. Yamaha have probably sold less LS's than Mackie has DLs (has anybody got actual sales figures?) despite it's many years of production but one still hears of failures. I also suspect any X32 failures will be jumped on with glee by the Behringerophobes amongst us thus distorting the figures.

Either way I really don't have any guaranteed accurate statistics TBH, and all electronic gear has a failure rate, Digico and Yamaha just the same as Berry and Mackie. My hope (having just bought a second X32) and feeling is that if the X32 had serious issues there would be many more reports of trouble than there actually are. The DL has had far more documented problems than the X32 family despite orders of magnitude fewer sales. Don't get me wrong, I still love my DL, it is (as I have said numerous times) a great little mixer and if I don't get offered a decent price I will happily keep on using it for my smaller gigs and as a backup mixer on the big-uns.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 10, 2015, 09:40:24 PM
Expectations play a role in user response. If a channel on my LS9 appeared to be a dB or 2 off, I'd freak. When one of the outputs on the X32 at a club I was mixing at was clearly low, I went "Behringer, whatever, I'll kick it up a few dB." Not to mention that users at one level notice things that users at another level don't even know exist. I'm convinced that the Mackie resync thing is quite common, but goes right by most people, because they simply aren't paying that much attention. If you're not looking at the board the 2 seconds when it resyncs, you'd have no idea it even happened. This bug made me crazy until I accepted it as part of the price point.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 10, 2015, 10:51:16 PM
The X32 isn't perfect, nor is the DL. Both offer far more than we could have dreamed of 5 years ago. The Berry seems to have achieved a level of acceptance amongst audio professionals that belies it's budget status. I can't say I've seen any of the issues you describe but I have only done a few gigs with it so far. Only to be expected as I'm sure you have far more experience than I do (as a lifetime weekend warrior turned pro in my declining years). I do use an iLive system and a GLD at work and they are very nice but way beyond my budget (equally the boss would not consider an X32 for company stock). I guess I hope that the X32s will last my remaining 10 years or so in this business (hopefully, I'm 62 now) without trouble. Mine won't have a hard life so I'm optimistic.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 10, 2015, 11:01:56 PM
At the moment, I'm using my XR18 more than my TouchMix, and that more than my DL1608, and that more than my Yamaha LS-9, so I'm certainly not a gear snob. My eyes are wide open, though, and I learn the foibles and fail points of whatever gear I have. It's all good.

If the show's over and nobody died, I win. Only lost once so far, when my venue hit a car.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 11, 2015, 09:32:28 AM
I read on the b forum that there is a bit of noise from the hi z channels and issues with the  wi fi connection, but it's early days and it's a new product, and problems with well established products from mackie still seem to exist?

I can live with a bit of noise and have a choice of routers, so i think there will be little conplaint from the likes of me when the 299  x version hits the shops, they even throw in free, yes free mr mackie , rack ears,

What more do you want,

( apart from an fx mute and some faders)

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 11, 2015, 09:43:13 AM
Built in beer cooler?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 16, 2015, 01:49:59 AM
Version 1.0 of the laptop editor, and firmware 1.09 up on their site. Not showing up on the web page yet, but you're clever lads.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 16, 2015, 07:07:09 AM
Version 1.0 of the laptop editor, and firmware 1.09 up on their site. Not showing up on the web page yet, but you're clever lads.
Done and on web page.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 17, 2015, 06:10:41 PM
Built in beer cooler?
Sorry that option is only available in Germany, no export allowed.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 17, 2015, 06:34:29 PM
With V1.0 of X-Air the first non-Beta release the "sync" problem has been fixed. That was 3 months to get that accomplished. Are you paying attention BenO? I have mine now running continuously for 36 hrs and no disconnect on 3 control surfaces (PC W7, PC XP, iPad V7.1.2). The PC's are set for no automatic reconnect if a disconnect "sync" happens it requires a keyboard entry so no need to stare at it for all that time. My $89 iStudio also has had no problem with connect issues EVER and that uses a 30 pin cable connection. :)  Oh yeah  and it's on that 1 meter cable, not docked.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 18, 2015, 05:02:10 PM
Yah, but Uli has like 400 top-notch guys working on the firmware/software so it's just not fair ;) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 18, 2015, 05:18:47 PM
Yah, but Uli has like 400 top-notch guys working on the firmware/software so it's just not fair ;) .
Yeah, what took them so long? Disgraceful!  ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 18, 2015, 09:53:47 PM
Yah, but Uli has like 400 top-notch guys working on the firmware/software so it's just not fair ;) .
Coming from a software guy (RR) you know 7 is a better # than 9, but 2 isn't gonna cut it.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 20, 2015, 12:20:16 PM
Yah, but Uli has like 400 top-notch guys working on the firmware/software so it's just not fair ;) .
Coming from a software guy (RR) you know 7 is a better # than 9, but 2 isn't gonna cut it.
Sho' 'nuff, normally  ;) . Kinda depends on how they have it split up. The FX are probably done as plug-ins so really separate programs. Then the firmware, iPad app, PC app, Mac app, and android apps are probably separate teams as evidenced by them not looking alike. Wouldn't surprise me if the Mackie team was two guys total, and no "real" software QC staff (code reviews, formal regression testing, etc).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on April 20, 2015, 12:24:15 PM
2 competent programmers beat 10 wannabes any day.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 21, 2015, 07:00:12 PM
2 competent programmers beat 10 wannabes any day.

I have no way to know what each manufacturer has for a software team. I do know that out of the three iPad mixers I own, DL1608, TouchMix, and XR18, one of the manufacturers is kicking the others' ass softwarewise. Functionality, frequency of updates, and response to user feedback, Uli's team are doing good work.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 21, 2015, 10:14:07 PM
2 competent programmers beat 10 wannabes any day.

I have no way to know what each manufacturer has for a software team. I do know that out of the three iPad mixers I own, DL1608, TouchMix, and XR18, one of the manufacturers is kicking the others' ass softwarewise. Functionality, frequency of updates, and response to user feedback, Uli's team are doing good work.

In fairness there has been quite a bit for Behr***er to fix recently, being that the XR is so new.
Same goes for QSC with the TM, it's had big improvements too, hasn't it?

MF3.0 is now a pretty slick interface, with lots of user requests utilised as far as I can recall.
When a product gains (relative) maturity there will be less to do and MF has had quite an overhaul from V1.x to V3.x.

Upcoming changes and flurries of activity regarding the DL will probably be few and far between.
Not exactly headline grabbing stuff but perhaps a reality.

edit: That said, DL32R updates and feature enhancements may filter down to the 1608 and 806. Maybe not so quiet a prospect after all?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: James91104 on April 21, 2015, 11:30:47 PM

In fairness there has been quite a bit for Behr***er to fix recently, being that the XR is so new.
Same goes for QSC with the TM, it's had big improvements too, hasn't it?
edit: That said, DL32R updates and feature enhancements may filter down to the 1608 and 806. Maybe not so quiet a prospect after all?

Being real here, XR & TM effects set them apart from the DL/R. As more time passes, and other products debut, this deficiency gap becomes wider and certainly of no asset for Loud Tech.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on April 22, 2015, 02:29:15 AM
Same goes for QSC with the TM, it's had big improvements too, hasn't it?

Big improvements? No. They dug themselves a deep deep hole with their initial design. They've thrown some shovelfulls into it, but you can't even see their heads yet. As for user input, their default response is "No."
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 22, 2015, 06:33:44 AM
Yup, the FX are something Mackie should look at, a lot of complaints there.
Not being a coder, I'll not guess how easy or difficult it would be to add new algorithms but it would certainly address a long standing complaint.
I found them useable but I didn't need a lot of reverb. The delay was ok too. Variety would be nice, ADT, Flanger, Chorus would be helpful. Can't understand why the 32r only got three fx when the competition has four or eight?
Maybe hardware really is a limitation although WK says there is mucho unused horsepower in the DL IIRC?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on April 22, 2015, 07:09:16 PM
I was wondering if the effects were actually on a chip.  If it's hardware and there isn't a socket, we are probably stuck with what we have.  If it's software?  That is always fixable. 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ijpengelly on April 22, 2015, 08:51:44 PM
As Robbocurry said, there was definitely the impression given that there was a lot of unused potential to be used under the hood and I would be surprised if the effects were hard coded onto a chip. Perhaps the issue is that previously they had bought in chips for the likes of the CFX with it programmed by a third party and haven't done it that way this time so are just botching their way through? I suspect it wouldn't be difficult to get someone like Yamaha or Lexicon to licence them some decent effects plug-ins.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 22, 2015, 09:43:45 PM
I downloaded a couple of convolution reverb apps and ran them via the iPad channel and they were a major improvement.
RR gave me the heads up on how to do it, thanks again RR :thu: ;)
I could run it from a docked iPad or iPhone 4 upwards.
It wasn't until I compared them side by side that I realised the factory ones were not the best.
There were other FX types out there too IIRC.
Good workaround if nice reverb is crucial to your work.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ijpengelly on April 23, 2015, 05:32:19 AM
I need to give that a go now I have a second iPad I can leave docked.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 23, 2015, 02:29:39 PM
Yah, only problem is I like to play my break music from the docked iPad and occasionally record - plus keep Master Fader there "just because". I haven't tried to run iPad FX live yet, I suppose I really should give it a go since it was my idea LOL. I do have three iPads so running Master Fader docked isn't really needed - plus it's damned annoying with the disconnects that don't happen wireless.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ijpengelly on April 23, 2015, 04:44:34 PM
Ha!  :o  Speak for yourself, I get the disconnects regularly wirelessly... hardly ever use it docked so don't know if that is an issue.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Sir Krang on April 23, 2015, 04:48:57 PM
Wow, I can't remember one single disconnect incident wirelessly, and for most of the gig I'm looking at the iPad in my hands so I'm pretty sure I would have seen it if it happened.

However, the docked iPad loses sync regularly .. But it's never been a problem coz it only takes a few seconds to reconnect.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ijpengelly on April 23, 2015, 05:49:45 PM
Pretty much every gig it will do it. I am going to have to see whether the second iPad I have exhibits the same behaviour, but I am not convinced it is an MF issue as I have seen videos struggling to buffer the moment the signal indicator on the iPad drops to 2 bars instead of 3.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 23, 2015, 06:00:20 PM
Never noticed it with the docked iPad. Couldíve happened when I wasnít looking at it. I run wirelessly all the time now, no docked iPad and it has never dropped sync once. Just lucky? 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ijpengelly on April 23, 2015, 06:34:23 PM
Maybe I am rubbish at picking Wi-Fi routers?  :lol: LOL
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 23, 2015, 06:43:51 PM
Maybe I am rubbish at picking Wi-Fi routers?  :lol: LOL
I've not seen any wireless disconnects lately - but then again I don't use a router 8) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on April 23, 2015, 07:01:40 PM
I've had momentary disconnects from my docked ipad 2 and from my wireless ipad mini.  Short infrequent.  Not much of a problem. 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Sir Krang on April 23, 2015, 07:29:16 PM
One of the things that astounds me is how there seems to be so many different issues using the same gear, and operating systems. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/smileys/scratch.gif) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/gronk62/media/smileys/scratch.gif.html)j

I know how to use stuff...and if I don't I always RTFM.
But I'm completely clueless when it comes to the deep down nitty gritty of technical gear.

One of my friends in the music industry, who is similar to me in his lack of technical knowledge, made a statement one day that all this fangled high tech stuff like computers and such is, and I quote,  "harder to EQ than a ham sandwich!"

This current crop of diverse user issues using the exact same gear as the rest of us gives me a headache just thinking about WHY there are so many variables in the end user experience. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/gronk62/smileys/dunno.gif) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/gronk62/media/smileys/dunno.gif.html)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Sir Krang on April 23, 2015, 07:40:31 PM
Maybe I am rubbish at picking Wi-Fi routers?  :lol: LOL
The router I first used was my Dlink DHP-1320.
It worked quite well...once I got it to connect to the DL. But that was sometimes an exercise in frustration.

In the end I found enough loose change hiding in my sofa to buy an apple airport express, and my wonky connection issues mostly vanished.

The only negative is that the airport express doesn't have anywhere near the range of the Dlink.

But anyway, I think it might be a bit of a lucky dip choosing a WiFi router for this application. I doubt you're rubbish at it LOL  :D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 23, 2015, 08:02:19 PM
I think itís the way things are manufactured today. You put 2 brand new cars side by side, they are identical in every way, one of them will end up having issues right off the showroom floor and the other will never have any problems for the life of it. Itís a sad state of affairs, but it seems to be reality. QC at its best!

I had a DL completely brick on me right after a firmware update a long time ago and returned it. Now Iím using a brand new one (almost 2 years old now) with the school I volunteer at. Itís been flawless out of the box and throughout all the firmware and app updates. Go figure! 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Rdmitch on April 27, 2015, 12:41:50 AM
Actually had a chance to run the x32 "sister" board last night .
Working at a club that the house mixer was a Midas M32.

Very impressed with the quality and feel of the board. Actually liked it's layout better than the x32
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: ijpengelly on April 27, 2015, 05:39:53 AM
Now that's just showing off!  ::)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 28, 2015, 06:54:28 AM
Well I am sorry to go with the enemy, but I have just ordered the x air  12, I hope it's ok, my mum will have my guts for garters if i get it home and I don't like it.

 :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on April 28, 2015, 12:58:07 PM
I don't see anyone as the "enemy".  If Behringer has improved their quality control, then kudos to them and all the people who will be buying their products in the future.  Their price alone will draw people in their direction.  There will be people who had been burned in the past who will never forget or forgive.  My experience hadn't been too bad.  It was perfect with my MixWiz.  (Still a great mixer.)  Pretty rare that any product that I own never gives me any problem for the entire time I own it.  (I generally keep things a long time.  15 years for my previous new car.)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on April 28, 2015, 01:20:08 PM
Well I am sorry to go with the enemy, but I have just ordered the x air  12, I hope it's ok, my mum will have my guts for garters if i get it home and I don't like it.

 :)

I never had any serious issues with Behringer gear, and I've used a lot of it. In the past, you just couldn't punish it too badly, or it would get erratic. Reasonable care yielded good results, at least in my case. If they had been shipping either the X18 or the XR18 when I was in the position to purchase, I probably would have gone with it, even though I don't like the software as much as the Mackie, if only because of the ability to control/recall the preamps.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 28, 2015, 02:28:21 PM
If they had been shipping either the X18 or the XR18 when I was in the position to purchase, I probably would have gone with it, even though I don't like the software as much as the Mackie, if only because of the ability to control/recall the preamps.
With V3 Mackie has come a long way towards making their software as weird as Behringer's ;) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 28, 2015, 03:14:30 PM
Before anyone starts panicking, I will still be a happy member of this forum for as long as possible.

 :)

Cheers

Kev

Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 28, 2015, 03:25:32 PM
Good luck Kev with your new purchase! :thu: ;)
£261 on Thomann, pretty cheap!
Lots of FX on it.
Now do I need a backup to my backup mixer?  :lol:

Anyone here interested in a ZED10?

Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 28, 2015, 03:42:06 PM
Maybe if it's cheap enough  :D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 28, 2015, 03:49:31 PM
Good luck Kev with your new purchase! :thu: ;)
£261 on Thomann, pretty cheap!
Lots of FX on it.
Now do I need a backup to my backup mixer?  :lol:

Anyone here interested in a ZED10?

I have a ZED10 Too or is that Two if I get another one? Nice little mixer. It even works with the iPad via CCK, for recording 2 track audio!  8)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 28, 2015, 04:05:06 PM
Maybe yous DL32R guys can buy an XR12 to use for FX? ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 28, 2015, 04:06:14 PM
Maybe yous DL32R guys can buy an XR12 to use for FX? ;)
LOL, low blow there RR!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 28, 2015, 04:08:07 PM
Maybe if it's cheap enough  :D
£160 inc case & delivery? Pretty much a minter.
(Have original box somewhere too.....)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 28, 2015, 04:31:28 PM
Maybe if it's cheap enough  :D
£160 inc case & delivery? Pretty much a minter.
(Have original box somewhere too.....)

So that's approx. $295.00 CDN and retail here is $350.00 CDN with Tax. I think I'll pass.. out.  ;) Just kidding. It would be impractical for me for sure.  :) Not that I need a second mint ZED though.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 28, 2015, 04:35:52 PM
Ahh, mine is in a case though!
They're a bit more expensive here KM (ironically A&H's home country) ;D
They do tend to hold their price as well.
After a board meeting we've slashed the price to £150 inc UK delivery. (So £138 for the case & mixer and £12 for P&P)
BTW no pressure Sam, there's still a little spot in the van kept for it!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 28, 2015, 04:42:39 PM
Well I am sorry to go with the enemy, but I have just ordered the x air  12, I hope it's ok, my mum will have my guts for garters if i get it home and I don't like it.

 :)
For your sake I hope they have another round of updates before you get your XR12. :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 28, 2015, 04:49:53 PM
Ahh, mine is in a case though!
They're a bit more expensive here KM (ironically A&H's home country) ;D
They do tend to hold their price as well.
After a board meeting we've slashed the price to £150 inc UK delivery. (So £138 for the case & mixer and £12 for P&P)
BTW no pressure Sam, there's still a little spot in the van kept for it!

Just a little bit of an ironic twist. Bummer. But it is a very good deal for someone over there, cough, cough, uh, Sam?  ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 28, 2015, 04:57:12 PM
Ahh, mine is in a case though!
They're a bit more expensive here KM (ironically A&H's home country) ;D
They do tend to hold their price as well.
After a board meeting we've slashed the price to £150 inc UK delivery. (So £138 for the case & mixer and £12 for P&P)
BTW no pressure Sam, there's still a little spot in the van kept for it!

I've a couple of deals in progress, I'll have to wait until they mature. Also it isn't the fx version is it, still a nice little desk, will give it some thought. Where in the UK are you (PM if you prefer)?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 28, 2015, 04:57:33 PM
Well I am sorry to go with the enemy, but I have just ordered the x air  12, I hope it's ok, my mum will have my guts for garters if i get it home and I don't like it.

 :)
For your sake I hope they have another round of updates before you get your XR12. :)
Not good to go then WK, would caution be advised?
I was just about to hit the button on more gear again!! :facepalm:
As you know I'm a well documented non Beh! fan, but I'm drawn to this wee device.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 28, 2015, 04:58:34 PM
Ahh, mine is in a case though!
They're a bit more expensive here KM (ironically A&H's home country) ;D
They do tend to hold their price as well.
After a board meeting we've slashed the price to £150 inc UK delivery. (So £138 for the case & mixer and £12 for P&P)
BTW no pressure Sam, there's still a little spot in the van kept for it!

I've a couple of deals in progress, I'll have to wait until they mature. Also it isn't the fx version is it, still a nice little desk, will give it some thought. Where in the UK are you (PM if you prefer)?
Sunny Northern Ireland Sam :eek:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Keyboard Magic on April 28, 2015, 05:08:10 PM
Well I am sorry to go with the enemy, but I have just ordered the x air  12, I hope it's ok, my mum will have my guts for garters if i get it home and I don't like it.

 :)
For your sake I hope they have another round of updates before you get your XR12. :)
As you know I'm a well documented non Beh! fan, but I'm drawn to this wee device.

Just like me. Like a moth to flame?  ::)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 28, 2015, 05:21:53 PM
That's a bit of a trek from the Rainy City  :(
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on April 28, 2015, 05:25:01 PM
That's a bit of a trek from the Rainy City  :(
I was over in Manchester last Thursday & Friday too !! :facepalm:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 28, 2015, 07:35:44 PM
Well I am sorry to go with the enemy, but I have just ordered the x air  12, I hope it's ok, my mum will have my guts for garters if i get it home and I don't like it.

 :)
For your sake I hope they have another round of updates before you get your XR12. :)
Not good to go then WK, would caution be advised?
I was just about to hit the button on more gear again!! :facepalm:
As you know I'm a well documented non Beh! fan, but I'm drawn to this wee device.
At the rate they are going I would not be to concerned but like the DL it will take time to mature. Anyone asking for my preference at this time I would have to say X32 rack. Of course if that's overkill then just hold your horses a bit. I don't know what they did to get there from the XR18.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on April 29, 2015, 11:30:15 AM
If they had been shipping either the X18 or the XR18 when I was in the position to purchase, I probably would have gone with it, even though I don't like the software as much as the Mackie, if only because of the ability to control/recall the preamps.
With V3 Mackie has come a long way towards making their software as weird as Behringer's ;) .

I actually found something I like much better in the Behringer software: To name channels (scribble strip) on the Behringer, you have to go to the Setup menu. On the Mackie, if you as much as touch the scribble strip, the edit menu pops up. That's annoying during a show if you accidentally touch the scribble strip.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on April 29, 2015, 11:40:25 AM
Once the gig's underway I switch them off in the access tab along with the solos. It makes them look a bit dull but helps with my clumsy big fingers!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on April 29, 2015, 11:51:52 AM
Once the gig's underway I switch them off in the access tab along with the solos. It makes them look a bit dull but helps with my clumsy big fingers!

I didn't realize you could do that! Thanks!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on April 30, 2015, 11:55:58 AM
Hey guys

I said I have ordered one :)

But I wasn't planning on using it too soon, it was a case of wanting one I think over needing one but I thought after aggravating people for years about the lack of a small digi mixer, I should do the right thing and splash the cash, I am told that the options on this desk will blow my mind, but there's not much of it  left,

This dufus was struggling with his new Allen heath of late and now I know why, in my haste to get out working with it, I re wired the rack and had my subs running from the low power amp, and the mids from the high power amp, yeah no wonder it sounded odd, argh well what's a few burn out compression drivers?


Has anyone noticed how expensive gear is becoming in euros from thomann, recently I have purchased a dcx x over, a and h desk and both have jumped significantly in price, my new x was 360 euros. Hardly the 299 dollars that people suggested months ago,

Agh well it's only money.

Cheers
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on May 07, 2015, 12:47:48 AM
Hey guys

I said I have ordered one :)

But I wasn't planning on using it too soon, it was a case of wanting one I think over needing one but I thought after aggravating people for years about the lack of a small digi mixer, I should do the right thing and splash the cash, I am told that the options on this desk will blow my mind, but there's not much of it  left,

This dufus was struggling with his new Allen heath of late and now I know why, in my haste to get out working with it, I re wired the rack and had my subs running from the low power amp, and the mids from the high power amp, yeah no wonder it sounded odd, argh well what's a few burn out compression drivers?


Has anyone noticed how expensive gear is becoming in euros from thomann, recently I have purchased a dcx x over, a and h desk and both have jumped significantly in price, my new x was 360 euros. Hardly the 299 dollars that people suggested months ago,

Agh well it's only money.

Cheers
Well Kev, has it arrived yet? :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on May 07, 2015, 01:08:20 AM
Has anyone noticed how expensive gear is becoming in euros from thomann, recently I have purchased a dcx x over, a and h desk and both have jumped significantly in price, my new x was 360 euros. Hardly the 299 dollars that people suggested months ago,

Here in the States, the X12 does sell for $300.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on May 07, 2015, 07:56:21 AM
They did over here when they didn't have any :facepalm:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on May 07, 2015, 09:22:34 AM
hi guys

It's arrived and I am impressed, it's a heavy little solid feeling box of loveliness, not what I was expecting at all, it does not feel like a cheap product, only had ten minutes so far to play with it, the joys of fatherhood I guess,  I had no problem connecting my pad and laptop to it, and I am hoping to actually connect pa and source today, so I will let you know how I get on, it's early days but I think I am going to be a happy bunny,

Many thanks

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on May 07, 2015, 03:19:53 PM
Nice one Kev  :thu:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 03:59:17 PM
Finally got my XR18 yesterday. Pretty cool little box.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on May 07, 2015, 05:39:29 PM
Looking forward to some honest comparisons - obviously negatives are you can't hard-wire an iPad, and you have to carry a laptop if you want to use channels 17 and 18 I think?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on May 07, 2015, 06:01:57 PM
It might be a good idea to wait for the comparisons from those that own both units. Comparisons as you well know are going to be biased based on the feature set you are looking for.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on May 07, 2015, 06:12:07 PM
Finally got my XR18 yesterday. Pretty cool little box.
I thought you were getting an X18?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 08:29:18 PM
Finally got my XR18 yesterday. Pretty cool little box.
I thought you were getting an X18?

Yeah, I changed it to the XR since they were more readily available. I didn't really need the tray in retrospect...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 08:31:25 PM
The first major bogusness I've run into is that aux sends can't be set to post fader, unless I'm doing something wrong. In fact it seems stuck only in one mode though there are several selections for the aux mode. Grrrr....
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on May 07, 2015, 08:36:32 PM
The first major bogusness I've run into is that aux sends can't be set to post fader, unless I'm doing something wrong. In fact it seems stuck only in one mode though there are several selections for the aux mode. Grrrr....

You're doing something wrong. There are many options, per channel and per aux. What OS editor are you running?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 08:38:07 PM
The first major bogusness I've run into is that aux sends can't be set to post fader, unless I'm doing something wrong. In fact it seems stuck only in one mode though there are several selections for the aux mode. Grrrr....

You're doing something wrong. There are many options, per channel and per aux. What OS editor are you running?

I'm using the Mac editor and the iOS app. Latest 1.09 firmware and 1.0 app. I go into the routing, and choose the post fader mode on Aux 6 to run aux subs. It seem to remain pre-fader.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 08:38:54 PM
P.S. it was a  bit rattling to have 6 double 18 subs jump into full tilt boogie ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on May 07, 2015, 08:42:26 PM
Don't set it on the Aux. Set it in the sends on each channel. Post Fader on the Aux just means it's post the Aux master fader.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 08:44:05 PM
Don't set it on the Aux. Set it in the sends on each channel. Post Fader on the Aux just means it's post the Aux master fader.

Yeah, that's what I'm figuring out. Now it looks like the iOS app doesn't have the setting like the desktop app. So only on the actual desktop version then?

And a big thanks btw!
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on May 07, 2015, 08:54:44 PM
At the moment, every OS is missing some feature. I do setups in MacOS, walkarounds on iPad, mix on MacOS and watch the meter screen on Android. They'll get it worked out.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on May 07, 2015, 09:31:32 PM
At the moment it's like pre 1.4 of MF but when they get it right there's no stopping them. Go Uli and Co.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 09:34:21 PM
At the moment it's like pre 1.4 of MF but when they get it right there's no stopping them. Go Uli and Co.

Apparently the iOS app doesn't have the ability to set up the buses that way. But the desktop editor app does. They're still working on getting parity across all the platforms.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on May 07, 2015, 10:53:41 PM
They're still working on getting parity across all the platforms.

Only Android has gain reduction meters on the meter overview page, or definable channel layouts. Every platform has and is missing something. They'll get there. What I hope they don't do is try to make them identical.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on May 07, 2015, 10:56:26 PM
Well, ideally full functionality will have parity even if the GUI is different. Not having the aux bus mode options on the iPad is bad.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on August 25, 2015, 07:09:22 AM
Well my XR18 has now a 175 days or 4200 hrs of run time (24/7). Recently I had crashes (2) after about 30 - 40 hrs of running. By that I mean there was no response to any messages send to it (Wireshark monitoring) until power cycled. Of course it has been cycled as I tested various connection methods and other things. It was however run for the most part in AP mode (Wifi). I currently use a Hawkins HAI15sc antenna. I get about 12 dBm (claimed 15 dBi) signal increase over the standard and it certainly has reduced disconnects to almost zero. Remember this is in a quiet environment (about 20 channels) not your usual gig scenario. I also gave it the same pin one test and it passed with flying colors (no audible hum). I use W7, Android and iPad control surfaces. All still need work. I've updated firmware once from 1.04 to 1.09. The apps on all platforms have been also upgraded as they became available. The one issue that may not get a resolution in the near term if not at all is their documentation. Specifically their "User Manual" a Wiki that currently is nothing more than a quick start guide. A lot of people are using this in live gigs but I would not consider it at present. To many issues in the software.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on August 25, 2015, 09:42:12 AM
I am doing four gigs a week with the x air12, it is solid as a rock, since I upgraded to a decent external router two months ago I have no disconnect issues at all, I returned to a gig last night that was problematic due to a plethora of tv rebroadcasting ( pirate tv in essence) antennas and similar for high power paid  wi fi providers, the x air was solid,

I can't see any reason why anyone who owns one of these devices would not go out and gig with it after a few days of learning it's secrets at home. Fair play I am a duo or solo and only need basic routing, but it's no deal breaker requiring a laptop to set up services that are not present on iOS.

Cheers

Kev

Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on August 25, 2015, 12:11:36 PM
My XR18 is taking gigs away from my Yamaha LS9-16. Compact, no snake, multitrack everything. Physical controls: MIDI Fighter Twister for faders and Novation LaunchControl for effect sends.

I still use all 3 platforms. I have little expectation that they're going to converge the features between Android, iOS, and laptop. Their rate of updates seems to have dropped off completely. It's workable as it is.

Documentation will never happen, that I'm sure of.

I always carry my QSC TouchMix as backup, because I don't trust Behringer's components at all.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on August 25, 2015, 05:33:04 PM
I am doing four gigs a week with the x air12, it is solid as a rock, since I upgraded to a decent external router two months ago I have no disconnect issues at all, I returned to a gig last night that was problematic due to a plethora of tv rebroadcasting ( pirate tv in essence) antennas and similar for high power paid  wi fi providers, the x air was solid,

I can't see any reason why anyone who owns one of these devices would not go out and gig with it after a few days of learning it's secrets at home. Fair play I am a duo or solo and only need basic routing, but it's no deal breaker requiring a laptop to set up services that are not present on iOS.

Cheers

Kev
I'm glad the new router is working out for you even in that place where the AE took a dump. IIRC the iPad app wasn't that nice to you recently since all play isn't implemented yet. When I said not quite ready I didn't imply any major issues and of course if you have all 3 platforms available most things can be accomplished. Whether their operation ever converges is not as important as having all control over the XR series in each platform. That's not there yet. When I visited their Canoga Park facility I was given a tour and was impressed. It is however, based on their work product and from what I observed, a marketing/sales and damage control operation IMHO. No repair service AFAIK or have seen. Relabeling things seems to be a new fad at the Music Group.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on August 25, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
My XR18 is taking gigs away from my Yamaha LS9-16. Compact, no snake, multitrack everything. Physical controls: MIDI Fighter Twister for faders and Novation LaunchControl for effect sends.

I still use all 3 platforms. I have little expectation that they're going to converge the features between Android, iOS, and laptop. Their rate of updates seems to have dropped off completely. It's workable as it is.

Documentation will never happen, that I'm sure of.

I always carry my QSC TouchMix as backup, because I don't trust Behringer's components at all.
No question that the XR is both compact and convenient for most small gigs. As I said to Kev it's not important that the 3 apps converge on workflow but that all control over the XR are available on each app. The differences are even an advantage since it does give you a choice not only on hardware but also workflow preferences. Incomplete documentation however is a real problem (not the format it's in). What MFG do you know that sells a product of this complexity and then tells you to go figure out how it works and what it's limitations are? ::)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on August 26, 2015, 02:41:02 AM
Well over the next few weeks Music Group plans to release new firmware and updated apps as well, including a new platform for DIY on the Raspberry Pi. The long overdue X-air docs for OSC finally were posted as well. The manual however is soon in the future. ;D, Wiki of course.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on August 28, 2015, 12:56:33 PM
As I said to Kev it's not important that the 3 apps converge on workflow but that all control over the XR are available on each app.

That's why I said "converge the features".

These docs aren't actually new, it's just unreleased details from the April information. Good to have it, but it's not up to date.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on September 06, 2015, 09:05:14 AM
Hi guys

Sorry I have not been on here for a while ,


Yes I am totally with you William, we need the app of choice to do everything the other apps do, I use a pad 99% of the time, and set up unsupported aspects with my laptop, the problem is, I am not getting any younger, and struggle to do stuff on the fly in that 1% moment with an unfamiliar platform.

I am still very happy with the x and hope to buy another as soon as I get the stamp of approval on the purchase of maui 44.

Not holding my breath.

Cheers guys.

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on September 15, 2015, 11:41:56 AM
I think I told you guys about a gig I do where the wi fi inteference was horrific, I returned there last night and my x and pad and external router behaved well for three hours, juts before my last show I went for a beer and took my pad with me, walked back to the stage which is quite a way away and Doh, I could not connect to my x air ,I panicked closing the app, and restarting it and then went in to settings in the pad, and it had connected to the network in the pub where I bought a beer,

Now I have " ask to join networks " toggled green on my pad, why is my pad connecting without asking me, the pub wi fi was not a network I have ever used?

Cheers

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on September 15, 2015, 11:54:56 AM
Now I have " ask to join networks " toggled green on my pad, why is my pad connecting without asking me, the pub wi fi was not a network I have ever used?
It should NOT be green. And you should really follow my advice in the FAQ and forget all networks before every gig. Many public networks share a name so if you ever joined one of those open networks you'll auto join any other with the same name. That's a HUGE problem with the iPad IMO.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on September 15, 2015, 12:08:07 PM
Hi rr

I am totally bewildered now,

English is my first language, but the comment below from ios makes no sense

Toggle the " ask to join networks " switch green,

ask to join networks, known networks  will be joined automatically, if no known networks are available  you will have to manually select a network.

So why does my pad ask for the password for my router every time ?
And why didn't it ask if I wanted free internet in the ale house where I bought a pint, before it severed the link with my own router, this contradicts the statement above?..

Yes I know about forget this network, but you have to join and know the password to a network before you can forget it, how about a " this is the only network I want to use for the next five hours " button.

And how about mackie and behringer link the initiation of the app to a specific router,

Cheers

Kev



Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on September 15, 2015, 12:41:24 PM
It will not "sever" the link to your router - but it will seek out another network if it loses contact with yours. Apple assumes you'll never use an iDevice to connect to other than the internet so any network will do. Piss poor design IMO but you can get around it. And as I said the network in the pub was probably open and had the same name as one it knows - I've had that happen before myself. Oh, and I found the text for that switch DOES NOT toggle correctly when I just tried it so may not match the state of the switch :facepalm: .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on September 15, 2015, 04:45:38 PM
Hi mate. Its weird  i can mix my show from outside this pub usually without a problem. The pad has probaly seen a stronger signal with net access and made my mind up for me. Its my first and last pad. I only bought it as i was pretty sure i was going down the dl route. But not needed for x air.

Cheers.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on September 21, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
Ok guys

So regardless of the state of that switch, my pad always asks for the password of my router. Is there a way I can get it to stick?

Thanks

Kev
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on September 21, 2015, 01:52:07 PM
No idea what that's about. Should only have to tell it once.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on September 21, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
Yes it's odd,

As someone suggested maybe it just won't remember a password where there is not internet access.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: nottooloud on September 21, 2015, 04:46:06 PM
Mine all do.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on September 21, 2015, 05:07:40 PM
Did you try "forgetting" that (or all) network and them reconnecting?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Kev tyler on September 23, 2015, 08:25:13 AM
Did you try "forgetting" that (or all) network and them reconnecting?


No not yet mate. Will do though. 😀
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on September 25, 2015, 08:25:46 PM
Behringer released new firmware a couple of weeks ago and new tablet and iOS apps this week. Vast improvement in the GUI and feature updates. I have to say, I would never consider a DL at this point. I've been using my XR18 for several months now and it's been a great tool. Major weakness is the lousy built in WiFi which is easily remedied with an external router. If you've been holding off on getting one, no need to wait anymore IMO.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on September 30, 2015, 07:47:54 PM
Behringer released new firmware a couple of weeks ago and new tablet and iOS apps this week. Vast improvement in the GUI and feature updates. I have to say, I would never consider a DL at this point. I've been using my XR18 for several months now and it's been a great tool. Major weakness is the lousy built in WiFi which is easily remedied with an external router. If you've been holding off on getting one, no need to wait anymore IMO.
In general I would agree with you. The WiFi for a vintage unit is quite good but should never have been included in a new design. It is the most expensive single part in the mixer and as I stated many times before could have been left out. I would trade that for a fan and a 1Gig Ethernet chip instead or at least a dual 10/100. The dumbest thing I have ever seen a Mfg. do has to be their approach to documentation of a complex product. It amounts to a quick-start guide and an attempt on a manual via a Wiki. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot after trying to loose their past reputation. After 9 months they finally posted a block diagram   ::) They are forever under construction on their Web site and now have lost the link to the docs. Great job B..... :lol: Oh their claimed "Revolutionary auto-mix" was revolutionary 20 years ago. It pales in comparison to the XAP800,  EF2280 etc and certainly does not come close to Dan Dugan's E2. A minimal implementation for NOM (Number of Open Mics).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on November 26, 2015, 08:17:37 PM
Well Greg and others yet another release of X-Air Edit V1.3. At least they're still improving things. Still waiting for V2.1 when hopefully everything will have quieted down and I can reliably use it on gigs. Maybe by NAMM 2016 for V2.0. Windows tablets will also be more plentiful and lower priced. A 13.5" tablet would be just right for my tastes without all that time wasting swiping or layering.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on November 28, 2015, 06:47:01 AM
Well Greg and others yet another release of X-Air Edit V1.3. At least they're still improving things. Still waiting for V2.1 when hopefully everything will have quieted down and I can reliably use it on gigs. Maybe by NAMM 2016 for V2.0. Windows tablets will also be more plentiful and lower priced. A 13.5" tablet would be just right for my tastes without all that time wasting swiping or layering.
I'll have to try it on my $100 13.3" Android tablet. But - there doesn't seem to be any easy way of changing the scaling on the apps and this thing is fairly low res :( .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on December 28, 2015, 04:05:30 AM
Well the other shoe dropped or shall we say the price. The X18 is now $499 and the XR12 is $249. The X18 is the same form factor as the DL1608 at almost half the price ( the price of a DL806) and double the features. Mackie has nothing to compete with the XR12. Maybe will see a price adjustment from Mackie.

Sorry forgot the XR16 now at $399 that's quite a dilemma for Mackie.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Wynnd on December 28, 2015, 04:35:18 AM
There's a serious free fall in analog board prices.  While I can easily do what I need to on a DL1608, it's clumsy compared to a similar analog board.  (Too many screens, but I can't see any serious way to reduce that.)  Lower prices for electronics??? How is that a surprise?  Did you know that the original Commodore 64 sold for $600 at computer store only and was last sold at $65 at the mass retailers.  Think that happened in about 2 years.   I for one isn't bugged by the price drops or the claims of better options.  I'm fully hoping the DL1608 is my last mixer.  (I'm 62 and don't see doing this much after 8 years.)  I'm also hoping my VK-77 is my last organ.  That's about $4K worth of equipment that should last the rest of my life. 
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on December 28, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
In checking pricing I noticed that Sweetwater dropped the DL806. What do they know and not telling?



"Sorry, the Mackie DL806 is no longer available. We've left this page up for reference only. Check out the great alternatives on this page or call toll-free (800) 222-4700 to speak with a Sweetwater Sales Engineer about similar products."

P.S. After a call to Sweetwater it was determined that they only meant the 30 pin version was no longer available.  ;D  What the "L".

Interestingly the "alternatives" listed are the DL1608 and three XR products not the DL806L.  ::)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 01, 2016, 07:54:12 PM
Well it looks as though Be.....r laid a egg with  the  V1.5 for Android in the DCA/Mute controls. Taking a page out of M$ playbook it may be skip every other version time.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 01, 2016, 08:00:41 PM
Wynnd
" I'm fully hoping the DL1608 is my last mixer.  (I'm 62 and don't see doing this much after 8 years.) "
Like Hell you will, I'm 74 and still going. You'll probably turn in that bike before your mixer. Yes we'll both do far less lugging racks around but we'll just fade away.  ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: pytchley on February 01, 2016, 08:07:48 PM
No intention of turning the bike in or fading away yet but then I'm only 63 (for a couple more weeks anyway).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 01, 2016, 08:20:01 PM
No intention of turning the bike in or fading away yet but then I'm only 63 (for a couple more weeks anyway).
Well you're still "fade-ing" away, a play on words that may not have translated.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 01, 2016, 08:53:09 PM
Bloody hell, it's an 'old gits' convention I'm involved in....... I'm 63 in exactly 4 weeks...... I'f im still going at 73 I'll be a happy bunny indeed though I suspect I may not be doing this then (my Harley substitute)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15685857/IMG_8864.JPG)

 8) I'm the guy on the left, the crew is my drummer Chris, his first experience of skiff sailing (and the photographers were the bass player and his missus who were out in my little RHIB). I did give Chris a swim later in the day when the wind picked up....

We all played on the beach a couple of hours later to a crowd of around 250.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15685857/P1020223.JPG)

That was four years ago and our first "Band on the Beach" gig (a fundraiser for the RNLI). We've done it every year since, last year we had 450 in the audience and raised over £500 for the RNLI.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 02, 2016, 12:35:11 AM
Yup the "old gits" convention alright. My last fundraiser for the "Concert for the Cure" brings back fond memories. Here is a Tribute to my better half from someone you may recognize Deacon from Nashville series. He was our emcee for many years, as my wife had all his children thru her music program. He flew out that day from Nashville to perform this. We raised over $40,000 over the years for this cause. Yes the tech stuff was me for 20+ years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxniSNVjX5g
 It's good that some of us give back when we can.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 02, 2016, 12:58:00 AM
Lovely :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Rdmitch on February 02, 2016, 01:08:17 AM
Ok Sam so why are the Mains behind the mikes?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 02, 2016, 01:20:53 AM
We had no monitors so, as we were restricted by my little 5 watt amp (and, being outdoors, there were no room issues to deal with) it was a workable compromise. Let me explain, we were travelling very light, the gig was over the late August bank holiday weekend and I was at my caravan from the beginning of August 'till after the gig so the gear had to live in the car for 3 Ĺ weeks but I still needed to be able to use the car for that time. It worked well enough on that occasion but we have since progressed to my full rig and backline with a 2 KVA genny to power it all (stored in my trailer for the duration) which is just as well as the audiences have grown significantly and last year we had a rather good choir as our support act.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: stevegarris on February 02, 2016, 02:56:27 AM
Ok Sam so why are the Mains behind the mikes?

I noticed that, and I'm curious what those speakers are and how they're powered.

I regularly see a small jazz/pop band that a friend of mine plays in. They use (1) powered box, 15 & horn, sitting in the corner behind the band. It's nice and loud, has a nice, wet delay on the vocals, and just sounds fantastic in the room. They're a 3-piece, they all sing, and guitar and bass are run though the mains. I've never heard it feedback, and it always sounds good. The guitar players vocal mic is only about 5 ft away, almost directly in front of the speaker. If done carefully, it can work well.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 02, 2016, 09:32:46 AM
Sold now but they were Wharfdale SI10s (not as I incorrectly remembered in another post/thread, Celestions). Wharfdale still make a version but back then they were rated, IIRC, for 150 watts. The amp was a Crown xTi 2000 driven by my Mackie 1202. The PA was for the three vocals only and the guitar amp was a 5 watt Epiphone Valve Junior (not miked!).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: robbocurry on February 02, 2016, 11:53:30 AM
Cool Sam :)
Any folks not from the UK, that's what an August summer day looks like!
Tell me it was warmer than it looked Sam?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on February 02, 2016, 12:12:20 PM
It had been a nice day, that pic was just before dusk and it was still quite warm (we are all in tee shirts you'll notice). It is Anglesey not Andorra though :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 22, 2016, 05:57:16 PM
Just FYI I've ordered an XR12 to use in a bass rig as a preamp. It has several clones of highly desirable studio compressors and some sort of tube OD that hopefully will suit me. I'll be able to have separate EQ and FX for my stage sound and for sending to FOH as you can route a single input to multiple channel strips. It has a couple Hi Z instrument inputs, is 2U rack mountable, and only cost $235 shipped  8).

All things I'd like to see in a new DL806 replacement but just can't wait for :(

I'll also be able to mic the kick through it - and use it as a PA system for my smaller bands (I was in ten as of the first of the year - ouch). While it has only 4 mic inputs you can input two passive guitars into the Hi Z inputs and active instruments into the other 6 inputs as well as LOUD mics such as close mic'd drums and guitar amps.

I'll rack it up with a power amp (maybe a 4 channel?), my wireless instrument receiver, and IEM transmitter. Woo  :mrgreen: !

It does have 6 outputs (Main L, Main R, Aux1, Aux 2, Headphone L and Headphone R) but they aren't fully routable :( (yet? :) ) - but I think I can get two mono monitor mixes and one stereo monitor mix out of it. It is a 10 bus mixer just like its big brother the XR18. I really wish Mackie would add a couple more buses to the DL1608 so we could set up a separate record mix. It does share one of my pet peeves with the DL1608 - it is unable to un-stereo-link the Main L and Main R or at least allow separate EQ (and processing?) on each to support aux driven subs without "wasting" an aux out :( .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 24, 2016, 04:07:34 PM
That's a lot on the plate for the XR12 probably should have ordered a XR18 or a X18 cause I'm sure you forgot some other function you want. Multi-channel recording comes to mind.  :) Good luck RR.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 24, 2016, 06:00:34 PM
That's a lot on the plate for the XR12 probably should have ordered a XR18 or a X18 cause I'm sure you forgot some other function you want. Multi-channel recording comes to mind.  :) Good luck RR.
I specifically want the reduced channel count and lack of multichannel recording for when I'm running sound for my own projects from the stage. I'll still have the DL1608 for sound gigs :) but still waiting for that DL2412R ;) .

And I've not found a bass preamp or amp that has separate EQ for the stage sound and the FOH sound - and I hate shelving controls so want the multiple parametric EQs and variable HPF and LPF  8).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Fluddman on February 25, 2016, 02:09:26 AM
I hope the forum moderator doesn't find out we are talking Behringer!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 25, 2016, 02:29:07 AM
Folks have always been free to discuss/compare other mixers :) .

So, got the XR12 in. It came from the factory in "feedback loop smoke all your gear" mode but was fine after a reset in setup. My ears should stop ringing in a week or so (had the headphones on - ouch).

Definitely lacks some of the Mackie's features and refinements but it seems there are workarounds for what I've seen so far.

Strange that I had to crank the Hi-Z input gain fully up for the bass I plugged-in - I think this bass is relatively hot for a passive so it might not work with all of my others :( . All the TRS inputs top out at +20db gain, the mic inputs top out at +60db gain.

The FXs I tried were top-notch - tube stage, 1176 comp, pitch shifter. It has about 60 choices of FX for the four slots but some are dual mono versions of the stereo ones so maybe don't count ;) . Channels are limited to one FX insert although you can use a subgroup to insert a second one.

Seems well built enough, heavier than expected with the built-in power supply. No cooling fan although it has a grill for one on one end?? I've had it on for a few hours and it hasn't gotten hot or smell excessively.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 25, 2016, 05:06:18 PM
RR some have had problems with Hi-Z.   http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?10275-Guitar-breaks-Inputs-1-amp-2-on-XR18
Might want to check that although it's on a Xenyx pre instead of a Midas version in the XR12. No schematics makes it hard to judge.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 25, 2016, 05:27:49 PM
RR some have had problems with Hi-Z.   http://forum.music-group.com/showthread.php?10275-Guitar-breaks-Inputs-1-amp-2-on-XR18
Might want to check that although it's on a Xenyx pre instead of a Midas version in the XR12. No schematics makes it hard to judge.
Yah saw that - but there's no pre at all on the XR12's lame-arse Hi-Z inputs. Don't even know if the gain is real or virtual/digital as I think the normal "mic gain" is in the preamp chip? Even those I suspect is "stepped" with virtual/digital gain filling in the gaps and supplying some of the total gain?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Fluddman on February 25, 2016, 08:21:00 PM
Do the XR mixers pull the main faders down when you first turn on the mixer or load a new show? The X32 does and it's a very good idea. cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 25, 2016, 09:33:57 PM
It actually had a digital feedback loop when I first powered it up - ouch my poor ears, had the headphones on. I did a reset in the setup menu and all was well.

Dunno yet what it does when you turn it off then on or load a scene/show/whatever-they-call-it.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 25, 2016, 10:17:24 PM
Ya-da thought you knew better but then I shouldn't talk I ordered one of these pieces of sh..t today for eventual use by someone else or the trash bin.  >:D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 25, 2016, 10:21:32 PM
Ya-da thought you knew better but then I shouldn't talk I ordered one of these pieces of sh..t today for eventual use by someone else or the trash bin.  >:D
Always the optimist LOL. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Maybe for a nube the DL is easier to get your head around but anybody who's run a pro digital mixer shouldn't have a problem with the X-Air.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 26, 2016, 02:52:41 AM
No rest for the weary, time for a firmware update V1.12  :) Without headphones at first  ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 26, 2016, 03:04:16 AM
Mine was at 1.09 so once I got it working I upgraded to 1.12 no prob.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on February 29, 2016, 11:02:41 PM
Mine just arrived  :) . All's well so far. Did the usual paperclip routine to set to factory specs in case some QC dude left it in a hurry. Date code is 0415 that almost 10 months on someones shelf (Slow boat, Starin & Sweetwater). V1.09 Firmware just updated. Slated for weekend gig.  :facepalm: Backup XR18 of course. 100% battery operated system.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on February 29, 2016, 11:44:33 PM
My present amp rack has two IPR1600's and an NU3000 in it. I'm going to pull the two IPR1600's and put in the XR12 and an NU4-6000. That will give me one channel of amp per output. 9 Kilowatt bass rig - Woo ;) !
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 01, 2016, 03:57:22 AM
So you're the guy trying to start earthquakes.  >:D
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 01, 2016, 04:01:28 AM
(http://cdn.bandmix.com/bandmix_us/media/257/257589/533878-p.jpg)
Title: X-Air internal AP FUBARness
Post by: RoadRanger on March 11, 2016, 04:15:57 AM
Hmm... the X-Air internal AP only supports WEP "shared key" and Windows 8 and above only supports the more secure WEP "open system". So you can't connect from Windows 8 or 10. Good one Behringer :facepalm: x( :P :o
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 11, 2016, 10:55:10 PM
Sorry no problem here on W10. Your Buffalo AP the problem?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 12, 2016, 12:29:34 AM
Turns out that the latest Beta of Win 10 doesn't work with WEP at all - no word yet if the next released version will support WEP or not. Microsoft says everyone should update their devices to WAP2 LOL.

Oh, and this was just using the XR12's internal AP to try to connect with my laptop.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on March 12, 2016, 03:55:28 AM
You'll always bleed when you're on the bleeding edge.  ;)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on March 22, 2016, 04:06:06 AM
Turns out that the latest Beta of Win 10 doesn't work with WEP at all
They pushed a new beta of Win10 that now works fine with the XR12's AP.

I used my new XR12 based hybrid bass amp/PA last Friday night. I've had a fever since last Wednesday so my bizarre routing kinda gave me problems but I did get all four monitor mixes running and the mains and subs properly split out. I was running Behringer B208D's as mains, pole mounted over my two hybrid RevSound RS115X bass cabs / subs (reasonably flat from about 38Hz to 3000Hz). I was running vocals only to the mains, the kick and keys to mains high passed and subs low passed, and the bass to only the "subs" full range. I had meant to run the kick only to the "subs" full range too as one possible usage of this rig is without mains with a separate (venue ?) vocals-only PA. I won't be able to get any "click" out of the kick that way but it should do a good vintage kick sound.

It took some futzing to get the bass routing to work and I never did get the chorus/reverb on the vocal working but it sounded great otherwise. All sorted out at home now.

The iPad app is not as functional as the others, my usage of subgroups to fake the crossover was a problem as that app can't control subgroups (yet?). Sucks that I have three iPads that I really can't use without something else to access the missing functionality :( .

The PC app really needs two screens to be able to use a custom view of the faders as you can't access EQ etc from that custom view.  The Android app seems to be the most functional. Today I fired up my older $200 13.3" Android tablet and can get all the needed faders in one view 8).

All of my Android tablets suffer from the same issue - when you are updating any apps they freeze up and are useless until they finish - anybody else seeing that? The iPads seem much more stable and update apps no prob.

No prob with the internal AP at the gig, all detected networks were on channel 11 for some reason so the default channel 1 was clear :) .
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: Greg C. on March 22, 2016, 06:58:03 AM
The iPad app is not as functional as the others, my usage of subgroups to fake the crossover was a problem as that app can't control subgroups (yet?). Sucks that I have three iPads that I really can't use without something else to access the missing functionality :( .

For this reason, I broke down this week and got a Dell Inspiron 11 "2 in 1" so I could have full control in a tablet format. On sale at Staples for $299 instead of the usual $449. Swapped the spinner HD for an SSD and maxed the RAM out at 8GB instead of the stock 4GB. It's pretty peppy though the screen is a bit small for running X-Air edit.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on April 09, 2016, 09:44:39 PM
So, I finally had a gig a week back that pushed me to considering another 16-channel digital mixer. The X18/XR18 is the most likely candidate for me, as the price is decent and the features are compelling. But, that said, I'm confused about the WiFi situation. The inbuilt WiFi router only supports 4 devices, according to the specs. If I use my external WiFi router, can it more clients be supported? A max of four devices is kind of a deal breaker, as I regularly work with 5-piece bands where each player handles their own monitor mixes, and I usually have two devices running for the main mix (one in use, one as a backup).
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 09, 2016, 10:09:28 PM
^ I don't think there is an iPhone app yet?

And why are you thinking about moving way from the DL1608?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on April 09, 2016, 10:20:48 PM
^ I don't think there is an iPhone app yet?

No, there's not. I can live with that -- I have two old HTC Thunderbolts that I can stick new batteries in and use, and Android tablets are really cheap (I can get "good enough" tablets for under U$50). It also seems that the iPad app will run on pretty much any iPad made, as long as it can run iOS 5.0.1. Surprisingly, the "full mixer" app for the XR mixers look almost usable on the Thunderbolt (the screen on the T-bolt is only a smidge smaller than an iPhone 6s) -- at least almost everything can be "touched" from the phone if need be, unlike the Mackie.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 10, 2016, 05:07:47 AM
^ I don't think there is an iPhone app yet?

And why are you thinking about moving way from the DL1608?
Probably for similar reasons that we did. Time flies when you're having fun.  :)
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: gerenm63 on April 10, 2016, 12:39:34 PM
And why are you thinking about moving way from the DL1608?

Looks like you added this after I answered the first part ....

The biggest reason is that I can't remotely control the input gain. Having the "trim" is okay, but if someone suddenly starts clipping a preamp, no amount of digital trim is going to stop them from actually clipping. That's really the biggest reason.

Still wondering about my original question though -- if I use an external WiFi router, is there still a limit of 4 remote devices?
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: WK154 on April 10, 2016, 02:37:07 PM
And why are you thinking about moving way from the DL1608?

Looks like you added this after I answered the first part ....

The biggest reason is that I can't remotely control the input gain. Having the "trim" is okay, but if someone suddenly starts clipping a preamp, no amount of digital trim is going to stop them from actually clipping. That's really the biggest reason.

Still wondering about my original question though -- if I use an external WiFi router, is there still a limit of 4 remote devices?
As long as you don't use the XR's DHCP server (by  way of static IP or external DHCP servers) you can exceed this limit until the XR's run out of steam.
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 10, 2016, 05:45:52 PM
 
The biggest reason is that I can't remotely control the input gain. Having the "trim" is okay, but if someone suddenly starts clipping a preamp, no amount of digital trim is going to stop them from actually clipping. That's really the biggest reason.
One thing you can do is to set the digital trims on the DL1608 to +6 or +12 db and set the physical trims lower so if you start to clip you can go in and lower the digital trims 8) . The Behringer mixers (and others AFAIK) actually "fake" having continuously variable remote trims by using a coarse "stepped" electronic gain in combination to a continuous digital gain (just like the DL1608 has). Heck, crank them up to the full +20db - I doubt you'll hear any decreased bit resolution or increased noise...
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: sam.spoons on April 10, 2016, 07:24:36 PM
I may be wrong about this but I assumed the physical gain controls on the DL1608 were analogue (it makes no sense for them to be otherwise) and, thus, continuous.

I don't know what the resolution of the digital gains on the X32 are but the display shows around 4 'steps' per dB. An 8 bit word length controlling the DCA in the analogue preamp (again I'm assuming that's how it's done) would allow 0-255 'steps' or four steps per dB of gain over a 0-60+ dB range. I'd consider that acceptable......
Title: Re: X18 X18R X16R X12R Details & Video
Post by: RoadRanger on April 10, 2016, 07:39:11 PM
Those 4 steps per db aren't "real" - the "real" analog DCA's have something like 3db per step and the finer control is emulated in the digital domain. AFAIK no-one has observed any downside to using the full 20 db of digital trim available in the DL1608. I think the TRS only inputs on my XR12 only have two "real" steps (according to the block diagram?) and the rest is "emulated" - works better than expected IME.