Using Subgroups on DL1608

[musicman7722]

I did a search but can't find instructions how to setup and use subgroups. 

Also I have no idea what the VGA's are, can anybody point me to a thread or video on this as well.

TY

[Ampli]

http://youtu.be/MMMmR1u0CFk

[ijpengelly]

Idiots guide:

Sub-groups are pretty straightforward, on the input page for each channel select which sub-group you want that channel to be a part of and remove it from the main L/R. Once you have a selection of of channels bring up the fader on the relevant subgroup and then mix in each of the channels for the sub-group. Great for items such as drums.

VCAs (though these aren't technically VCAs) allow you to do a similar thing, except the VCA effective controls all of the channel faders proportionally as you adjust the relevant VCA. This is useful where you have a group of vocals (backing for example) and want the effects to be applied correctly.

[musicman7722]

Thank you both I'm on it.

[robmcl]

The primary diff is that subgroups are completely separate and new audio source while a VCA is simply a remote control for a group of faders.

Example: 4 channels of drums, kick, snare and 2 overheads
Assign them to a subgroup and you now have 5 audio channels.  Typically you route the subgroup to LR output and unassigned the 4 individual drums.   If not, any changes using the subgroup will prob be unnoticed since the orig audio ch is still in the output.  Since the subgroup is a separate audio source, you can also assign effects etc to this audio.  Use a subgroup when you need to add effects to a group of channels as a single sound eg. Compress the entire kit

Option 2 - assign the 4 drum ch to a VCA, you still only have 4 ch of audio.  The VCA contains no audio.  The 4 drum ch must still be routed to LR output.  The VCA is simply a single fader remote control for the 4 drum ch.  same as using 4 fingers to adjust the drums at the same time.   Use a VCA when you only want to remote control a group of faders.

Hope this helps

[robmcl]

Sorry just went back to re-read the thread and ijpengelly gave basically the same answer.
Sorry for the repeat info

[musicman7722]

The more comments the better.  TY

[Harpman]

So let me throw out this scenario.  5 vocalists. 1 or 2 do most of the leads, however the other 3 may sing lead on a couple of songs. Other than that, they sing background. How would you assign VCA's then or would you even use them?


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[Michael Welter]

In that case, I wouldn't assign the vocals to a VCA or Subgroup. The only action I might want to perform on all of them at once would be muting them. So I would assign them to a mute group. Other than that, I would control them all individually.

[robmcl]

I'm going to agree with Michael.  Subgroups and VCA are really intended for grouping "like" channels together for processing or simple control.   Eg.  All the channels for the drum kit to a subgroup to compress it... all of the band instruments... or all of the vocals.

Typically I'll put all the vocals into a VCA for the convenience of nudging them up over the band, as a group.  As Michael suggests, a mute group is also handy to mute them as a group when the singers are off stage for instance.   Personally, I'd opt for a VCA and get the control and mute functions in one...just my pref.   I wouldn't separate your 5 vocals via a subgroup or VCA.

Best case scenario, teach your singers how to work the mic and not sing every song and every vocal level with the mic at the same position.  If you're working with multiple bands as the FOH rather than a consistent band, you're left with just watching the stage and riding the faders.

[Wynnd]

Unless feedback is an issue, I don't like muting mics for most bands.   They always pick up some of the stage instruments and muting changes those volumes in the audience.    Live mics is why many drummers don't need more than a kick mic. 

[Michael Welter]

I only mute the mics when the band is taking a break. I've had times when all the levels were fine, and everything was sounding perfect, and then the band leaves the stage, and I get feedback.   So, I just got in the habit of muting the mics when they leave the stage.

[Harpman]

Same conclusion I came up with regarding SG/VCA's.  Glad everyone is on the same page .  I would agree with using MG's.  I use them all the time. MG1 = VOX, MG2 = INST, MG3 = FX, MG4 = BRK.  I too use the MG's for vocals during breaks, but also if I have a hot mic or FB issue, I can use Multi-Select to determine what is causing the FB. 

[robmcl]

Just to clarify, I agree with Wynnd... I wouldn't mute mics 'during a band performance', only during breaks.   I was thinking more my own situation where I could be changing bands 2-3 (or more) times during a show.  Muting during a change-over is non-optional.  Or perhaps the church scenario where the singers all walk away from the mics after singing, and you only want the preacher's mic to be live.
An "all mics" mute config, be it a dedicated mute group or the mute on a VCA is definitely a handy tool, if not a necessity.

[Ampli]

I use 1 vca group for all the aux masters
In case of feedback i can lower this vca and remove the feedback without the audience notice this
Most musicians dont even notice this. Because theyonly want the monitors too loud