DL1608 Aux out to PC sound card

[KingOfF00LS]

Hey everyone,

I am very much a neophyte and am hoping someone can give me tips on what I may be doing wrong.

I am trying to connect an aux out on our DL1608 to the input on a PC soundcard for recording purposes.  In case you want to know why, we have had issues where occassionally recording to the docked iPad does not work properly and the recording ends up being a few minutes of good recording interspersed with several minute long stretches of nothing but static.  It doesn't always mess up, and I have been unable to come up with a reason why occasionally it does it.  But that means that when it does happen the entire recording is destroyed and unusable for us.

So I'd like to also run an aux out to a PC to do a secondary recording, so that way if one of them screws up then hopefully the other is ok.

The problem is that when I run a cable from an aux out to the PC line in or mic in I get a recording that is either very faint and distant sounding or simply has no audio at all.  I've tried changing the options of (going by memory here, so forgive) pre-fader vs post-fader vs post dsp etc and that doesn't seem to help.

I have tried several different cables, but maybe I am using the wrong one.  I tried a 1/4 mono plug to the aux out that converts to 1/8 stereo jack, then plugging a stereo 1/8 cable into that and the other end into the PC soundcard which seemed reasonable to me would be correct, yet it didn't work.  So clearly what seemed reasonable to me wasn't very reasonable

Does anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, or guesses as to what I should be trying here?

I'm using the last version of Master Fader, by the way.  I believe it's something like 4.5.1 but I'd have to look.  It's the latest one available on the app store.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[dpdan]

welcome to the forum!

your request is not unusual but does require the correct cable.
I am assuming that you don't want or need a stereo recording but just clean mono audio.
You need a cable with one 1/4 inch TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) male plug on one end, and it would connect to one of the 6 Aux outputs on the DL1608.
The other end of the cable would have one 3.5 mm (tip-ring-sleeve) male plug, and it would connect to the 3.5 mm input on your computer.

There are no cables like this that can be purchased for what you want to do because you are connecting a balanced line level signal from the Aux output to an unbalanced stereo input on your computer. Without knowing more about your computer's connection, I can not make any suggestions for you apart from sending me a picture of your computer's connector, and then I would make the cable for you and mail it to you which I will be happy to do.

In order to get any consistant "reliable" results, I highly recommend not recording using your computer unless you purchase an inexpensive "audio interface" for it. An audio interface will connect to a USB port on the computer and then the interface will allow a number of different sources to be recorded ie: XLR mic inputs, line level 1/4" inputs etc.

Another thing to consider is to not use the computer at all and purchase an inexpensive portable recorder like a Tascam or Zoom. With one of these recorders you could then import the audio after you are finished recording and then edit the material with your computer and the DAW program of yourn choice.
If you need help deciding on which one to get come back here and we will help you.

Are you in the USA?
       

[KingOfF00LS]

Great info so far, dpdan.  Thank you.

Yes, I am in USA and yes having separated stereo channels is not important.  This is for recording services at our church, and I just want to make sure that when people listen to the podcasts later on they can hear out of both left and right instead of having audio from just one side which is very uncomfortable for me and many of them.

I did not realize there were USB devices that were designed in such a way that they would be a better interface for the DL1608, and I had never even considered the possibility of simply using a separate recording device.  Both of those are great ideas.  Do you have links for examples of both that I could look at, or could you give me the exact terminology to use when I google to make sure I am searching for the correct thing?

By the way, as far as the computer goes, it is just a standard sound card.  I think it's a soundblaster Audigy, but it's been awhile since I slapped that machine together.  So it has the typical 1/8 line and mic jacks you would expect to see on a sound card.

Thanks again for your help on this.  It has been a source of frustration for months.

(PS Not long after I started this thread I noticed someone else had the exact same issue recording to iPad on MF 4.x.  Should I revert back to MF3?  If I do that will all the EQ and other settings be lost since I would be downgrading the firmware or would they still hold going from a higher version firmware down to a lower version?)

Edit:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QY4RLRQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2KSKDLNTN98NS&coliid=I3UYAIXIA2UWPM&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005NACC6M/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2KSKDLNTN98NS&coliid=I3IRNTI9CUEO1Q&psc=1

Are these good examples of the devices you had in mind?

[dpdan]

I do not know if you would lose our shows/snapshots if you were to go back to Master Fader 3.
You could always export the show via email, then go back to version three and then check to see if the shows are still there,
my guess is they would not be, but it's possible,... I just don't know.

The Tascam is a self contained device with nice combo XLR connectors that will allow you to connect the proper cables to it from the DL1608.
I had one of those units and it does a good job. I am not familiar with how you get audio to your podcast, but I am assuming you do that with a computer?

If you choose to get one of these portable recorders, let me know via personal message and I will mail you the cables you need as a gift.






 

[shufflebeat]

I can do perfectly reasonable stereo recordings by taking a feed (6.5mm TRS jack to 3.5mm jack) out of the headphone socket into my Boss Micro BR line in.

Headphone volume is good at about 40℅ and the line in on the BR about 60℅, depending on your material of course.

The BR can be bought second hand for peanuts. Transfer WAVs to PC via the freely available software and edit in DAW, Reaper in my case.

Once the BR is hooked up you can monitor recordings via it's own headphone output. Be careful not to deploy the 'solo' function as that will mute everything else going to the BR.

[dpdan]

great idea,
excellent fix!
I am disappointed that I didn't think of that

He can buy ONE of these cables and connect to his PC.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hosa-Technology-1-8-3-5mm-to-1-4-TRS-Male-Stereo-Adapter-Cable-3-CMS-103-/181738944054?hash=item2a507c3636:g:pa0AAOSwEeFVTM4z

Of course if he does buy a recorder like the Tascam, he will need TWO of these...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockville-RCTR103B-3-1-4-TRS-to-1-4-TRS-Balanced-Cable-Black-100-Copper-/390908764582?hash=item5b03fa61a6:g:4o4AAOSwLVZViuB-

[KingOfF00LS]

Thanks to both of you for your help.  I need to chew on this information for a bit here and then make a decision on which way to go.  Whichever way, I will come back and let you know what happened.

[WK154]

So while you're thinking let me tell you about the next hurdle you will find (discussed here many times) is the potential noise problem going the cable route and aux's. There are many solutions to this problem with equally as many price-tags to solve it.
https://proaudio.com/catalog/level-matching.asp
What you need of course is a balanced to unbalanced converter, not the other way round. This is of course is assuming the Audigy Line input is a consumer level input device. I haven't checked the Audigy out (helps to know what you really have  ) but most are consumer level mono inputs. Don't use the Mic input the DL will overdrive it.. If you're technically inclined here is an excellent explanation (AN- 0003) from Bill Whitlock  of Jensen Transformers on the subject. You'll need to establish an account.
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/pro-audio/interface-splitters/
The mono to stereo is a PC setup for whatever recording program you are using.
It would however help to find out why your docked iPad recording process is flaky. There may be other issues with your setup.
It would also help to list specifics such as which iPad and version # on programs, hardware etc. Saves a lot of time for all.   

[chrisdski]

It's the dreaded static recording bug some of us have experienced.  http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=1220.msg16094#msg16094


I'd be interested if you have a 30 pin or a lightning pin DL1608.  Mine was a 30 pin- maybe older models are affected more with the bug.  It seems to be a MF4 issue.

[KingOfF00LS]

First off in response to the last post it is a 30 pin connector.  We have two iPads (I believe they are 3rd gen, the first one with retina which seems to make MF4 laggy) that otherwise work fine so I'd rather not replace if I didn't have to.

I still wish there was some way to know if all my settings would be lost if I went back to MF3.  I would be willing to do it, but as a novice I hate the thought of trying to set everything back up again.

welcome to the forum!

your request is not unusual but does require the correct cable.
I am assuming that you don't want or need a stereo recording but just clean mono audio.
You need a cable with one 1/4 inch TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) male plug on one end, and it would connect to one of the 6 Aux outputs on the DL1608.
The other end of the cable would have one 3.5 mm (tip-ring-sleeve) male plug, and it would connect to the 3.5 mm input on your computer.

There are no cables like this that can be purchased for what you want to do because you are connecting a balanced line level signal from the Aux output to an unbalanced stereo input on your computer. Without knowing more about your computer's connection, I can not make any suggestions for you apart from sending me a picture of your computer's connector, and then I would make the cable for you and mail it to you which I will be happy to do.

In order to get any consistant "reliable" results, I highly recommend not recording using your computer unless you purchase an inexpensive "audio interface" for it. An audio interface will connect to a USB port on the computer and then the interface will allow a number of different sources to be recorded ie: XLR mic inputs, line level 1/4" inputs etc.

Another thing to consider is to not use the computer at all and purchase an inexpensive portable recorder like a Tascam or Zoom. With one of these recorders you could then import the audio after you are finished recording and then edit the material with your computer and the DAW program of yourn choice.
If you need help deciding on which one to get come back here and we will help you.

Are you in the USA?     

Forgive me, but I'm looking at the dlseries manual, and page 22 talks about Aux Sends.  It appears to indicate that you can send balanced or unbalanced output.  My brief reading seems to agree with you that the line in jack on my computer would be unbalanced stereo input.

So my question is am I reading the manual wrong?  Why can't I go unbalanced output from an Aux Send to an unbalanced input in my line in connector?  Is it because the output is mono and the line in is stereo?  I'm just trying to understand as much as possible to make sure I can make the best decision possible.

[WK154]

Yes you are correct about the aux outputs handling unbalanced lines but please read the note on pg. 22 regarding this use. My point was to alert you to potential other issues that can arise from this type of hookup. A cable to handle this is sold here (TS to TS).
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CMP305?adpos=1o6&creative=54989267161&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=CMP305&gclid=COHr2rqp8tECFQ5EfgodGTwPsQ
Although a TRS to TRS should work as shown in the above posts.
It all depends on your environment and the length of the cable you have to run. Three feet or less is usually recommended. I've run 50ft without serious noise problems but with a different DL1608 power-supply.
So much for manuals and specs, reality has a different view of things. I suggest you search for aux issues on this forum and acquaint yourself with some of the problems encountered by others. The search is tricky since it only searches the current forum topic you are on, so go to the home page and perform the search. This has caught me numerous times concluding nothing is here on the subject.. 
I believe your question regarding data retention is also covered here.
Cheers

P.S. If the line input is stereo then the TS to TS cable would be the one to use since the TRS would give you noise on one channel. You still need to setup the PC input to mono and record to stereo (dual mono).
Aux output levels also need to be low since consumer level nom is 0.316V and pro level (DL) is 1.22V nom a 3.88x higher level. Most of the devices listed will handle that conversion. So don't overdrive your PC card.

[KingOfF00LS]

WK154, thank you for the extra information.

I will reply back after testing to relay my results.

[KingOfF00LS]

So I said I would post back with my results, just in case any other newbies have the same question in the future.

What I ended up doing is buying 2 of these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000068O3C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

One of them I used for the problem outlined earlier in this thread.  I linked 2 Aux outs on the 1608 together and the 1/4 plugs go into those, then the 1/8 end goes into the line in on the PC sound card.  In my case I had to keep the faders for the linked Aux outs fairly low to keep it from clipping, which is no big deal as I can process that later to make sure the volume is pretty consistent throughout (this is for speech, by the way, not music).

I am wondering if maybe I should make the linked aux pre-fader instead of post as it is now.  Maybe that would help the volume level be even smoother throughout.  Will see.

Anyway, the other one of those I bought was because I discovered why we were having sound issues on certain videos playing from the PC.  I used this cable on the audio out from the PC into 2 linked inputs on the 1608 and now the sound quality is far, far improved.

So anyway, I wouldn't claim that this type of set up is going to give studio quality recordings, but all I needed it for was insurance in case the recording on the iPad screwed up (which happens) so I wouldn't be completely without a recording at all.  So, hope this may help someone else in the future.

[WK154]

Excellent solution if you can spare two aux's without worrying about input stereo/mono settings. Normally recordings are done pre-fader for more consistent levels as you surmised. Just keep in mind for the future that you don't combine two outputs without special circuitry available in some cables. Glad we could be of help here.