Author Topic: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion  (Read 5559 times)

bradp015

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Hi All,
Thanks for any help you may have. I have been surfing around trying to striaghten this out and this thread contains some trouble shooting iv done, without success.
http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=1401.0
(i hope thats the right link!)

So, the issue:
solo and monitor are not working at dc16
trouble shooting:
-switch to MON and back to FOH with dante "auto route" chosen
-surf web to find correct routing in MF routing pages, duplicate it on MF
-double/triple check for correct MF routing (which im not sure i really have)
-pwr cycle dc16
-use diff cans
-confirm MON and SOLO knobs on dc16 have been adjusted


I did change the "analog source" to analog from ipad, and i think the solo/mon was working before i did that. But im not 100% sure about this. I was trying to test and learn the rec/play with the ipad and mini jack aux in.
I did have both MON/SOLO working last week. Now not so much...

All my troubleshootin has failed and im now bangin my head a bit.
-------------
Issue 2:
Maybe my brain is too old, but Im struggling with the routing pages in MF. The left and top names in the matrix are not labeled as in what device it is, the dc16 or dl32r. And then there's the 2 dante cards too. Therefor Im going crazy trying to keep what is what in my brain.
The tabs are: mic pre/osc/IN A/IN B/USB/OUT/Dante/Talk. See if Im on to it:

IN A: looking at the left/top names. Left is hardware-usb drive-dante card on dc16/ top names are dc16 channels.

IN B: This is the same, but usually the hardware ins are switched to usb, so you can play back from usb drive.

USB: Left is the sources that would route to the usb destination for recording those sources.

OUTPUT: Left is channel strips-submix-matrix-usb-dante of the dl32R, the top names are the hardware outs on the dl32r

Dante: left might be dc16 channels/mixes etc and USB of what im not sure, the usb drive i think? Top names: are dante card on the dl32 card?

Im not sure of the route for MONITOR "to the dc16". On the dl32 its obvious to me that MONITOR outs would mirror Main LR.

If some one could post the correct routing "PER MF ROUTING PAGE using lingo that states LEFT SIDE name goes to TOP name it would really help. Just for SOLO and MONITOR.

Thanks for reading such a long post, apologies.... maybe life has dumped too much on my plate these days for my brain to function!!! gawd!! Hope this makes some sense!!!!

Best!
brad p

dpdan

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2018, 08:21:51 AM »
Hi Brad,,
hang in there :)


I did change the "analog source" to analog from ipad, and i think the solo/mon was working before i did that. But im not 100% sure about this. I was trying to test and learn the rec/play with the ipad and mini jack aux in.
I did have both MON/SOLO working last week. Now not so much...

In SETUP of the DC16, changing the "Stereo Source" from iPad to Analog,,,,,,,,,,
if you want to play music into the 3.5mm stereo mini jack on the rear of the DC16, you simply choose "Analog",
if you want to play music digitally from the iPad that is connected via a lightning cable to the "control USB port" on the rear of the DC16,.... choose iPad.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


IN A: looking at the left/top names. Left is hardware-usb drive-dante card on dc16/ top names are dc16 channels.
that is mostly incorrect,...  the sources are along the left side (up and down) and these sources are connected with the dots to "patch" them to the various inputs on the DL32R. 

The Input "A" tab is where you choose what source is routed to the various input channels when "A" is selected,... kinda like the analog consoles with a mic/line switch. Selecting A is not necessarily the XLR input, it can be Mic Pre, USB, or Dante. The input channels do not all have to have the same type of source.
With "A" selected, input channel one could have Mic Pre 1, while selecting "A" on the second input channel could be USB or Dante.   

IN B: This is the same, but usually the hardware ins are switched to usb, so you can playback from usb drive.
Identical answer as given above for Input A, except we're talking about "B" here. A very convenient switch is in the very center of the recording page, and it allows us to select input "B" or "A" for ALL the inputs. Other buttons below it are labeled A Tracks and B Tracks,... choosing one of these will cause only the tracks that were actually recorded to switch for playback. 

USB: Left is the sources that would route to the usb destination for recording those sources.
Exactly.

OUTPUT: Left is channel strips-submix-matrix-usb-dante of the dl32R, the top names are the hardware outs on the DL32R.
Exactly.

Dante: left might be dc16 channels/mixes etc and USB of what im not sure, the usb drive i think? Top names: are dante card on the dl32 card?
confused  :)

Again, the left side (up and down) are audio sources that can be routed (shared) on the Dante network. If you have USB 1 connected with the dot to Dante 1 along the top, this means that the audio that is playing back from the USB drive will be shared on Dante 1.
Also, you asked..."Top names: are dante card on the dl32 card?
no, not just the DL32R's Dante card,... any Dante compatible device in the theater/studio/concert hall that is connected to the Dante network can all share these digital audio signals.
So, any Dante compatible device like the DL32R with a Dante card, a DC16 console, a computer with Pro Tools, a Yamaha digital console with a Dante port, and even powered speakers that accept a Dante "input" as an audio signal can all share these signals.   

Im not sure of the route for MONITOR "to the dc16". On the dl32 its obvious to me that MONITOR outs would mirror Main LR.

not necessarily, since we have the convenience of a routing page with (connect the dots) we can have just about any audio source on those "Monitor outputs". Some users use those for a stereo "In Ear Monitor" system, so they might link mix 7 and 8 to get a stereo mix, and then route those two mix outputs to the two Monitor jacks. Again by default, you ca look at the routing page under the "Output" tab, and see that Monitor L and R is connected to the Monitor L and R output jacks on the front panel of the DL32R.

It is easier to grasp and understand all this Dante stuff if you remember that these digital audio signals are just being shared on the CAT5 ethernet cable.
The DL32R has two 1/4 inch "Monitor" outputs on the front panel, the DC16 has these same two 1/4 inch "Monitor" outputs on the rear of the console. The Auto-Route Dante feature on the DC16 is just that, it is a built-in feature that Mackie provided so that these things work with default settings. The things that are auto-routed for the DC16 consist of the two monitor outputs, talkback mic input and 3.5mm analog stereo input which is commonly used for music playback via phone, iPod, CD player whatever. After the Dante Auto-Route proceedure is finished, you won't need to change these things in the routing page of Master Fader. You will also need to make sure that the "Phones" level knob on the DC16 is turned up, and you will want to verify that the buttons on the "Settings" page are set how you want them,... swipe down to see those settings,... Solo location, and whether or not the main stereo left/right audio is heard when you are finished soloing.     

I sure hope I did not mislead or confuse you any more than any of us can get with Dante. In some ways, Dante can be very hard to wrap your head around, and I completely get that... me too. :)

OK, now I am going to hit the hay, it's 3:30am  :P
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 08:42:49 AM by dpdan »

bradp015

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 02:13:51 PM »
Hey Dan,
Thank you for all that info! it def helped me....

ill continue to bend the brain around the dante thing.

So, if i did the "select mon slot than select FOH slot" and hit "yes" for auto route dante and get the "success" display, Solo/mon should work. If it didnt where would you start the trouble shoot?

So after i posted yesterday i was thinking about it. Reading the manuals i came across the dl32 LED color/blinking chart. I seem to recall seeing the network led on the dl32 blink Red/Green alternately. In the chart that means the routing is not finished. From the manual:
"Dante Card: Waiting for Dante Receive Channel Subscriptions to be established. This may take up to 45 seconds."

I believe this led code is continuously running, which means there's a problem...
the one thing i did not do was to pwr cycle the dl32.... ill try that next.
Then i think ill hook up my macbook to the mackie lan and take a look at dante controller. To confirm the correct routing.
Cause from what iv seen all the MF routing is correct but solo/mon doesnt work....

thanks!!!!!
brad p

any other steps you can think of, let me know!

dpdan

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2018, 05:25:28 PM »


both of my DL32R mixers have the flashing red LED, I no longer let it bother me, even one of the DL32R units at the Mackie booth at a trade show on youtube had the same flashing red LED, just like mine.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 05:27:38 PM by dpdan »

bradp015

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2018, 09:46:30 PM »
Excellent info!
thank you so much!

I may be going in to work on the solo/mon issue on friday... ill let you know how things go...
i think the only thing i can try now is to pwr cycle the dl32r...

i guess it possible that its defective but more apt to be operator error ;-)

bradp

dpdan

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 07:09:22 AM »
it is highly unlikely that it is defective, :)
Ok, here comes the Mackie haters    ::)

Be sure to check that the Monitor slide volume is turned up...



the slider above it labeled "D" is delay, so that when you are quite a distance from your main speakers at a concert, your soloing in your headphones will be perfectly in time with the main speakers,... provided you have set the delay to eliminate the echo that would be caused from the amount of time it takes for the sound from the main speakers to reach you at FOH.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 07:53:35 AM by dpdan »

bradp015

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 02:05:02 PM »
Thanks Dan,
Yup, i have level up.....
While we'r talking levels, Iv noticed there's no solo level control.

I will gen. use in ear monitors for listening to solo bus. If the time delay is off (meaning my listening is early and FOH is late, it gives me a better perception of whats going on. The ambient sound wont give destructive interference. Which is nice sometimes. I just ignore the ambient. I esp. liked it when I did location capture. 2cents...

thanks!!!

dpdan

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 11:52:48 PM »
Thanks Dan,
Yup, i have level up.....
While we'r talking levels, Iv noticed there's no solo level control.
that is correct, there is no separate solo level.

I will gen. use in ear monitors for listening to solo bus. If the time delay is off (meaning my listening is early and FOH is late, it gives me a better perception of whats going on. The ambient sound wont give destructive interference. Which is nice sometimes. I just ignore the ambient. I esp. liked it when I did location capture. 2cents...
thanks!!!

meaning my listening is early and FOH is late,

your listening can not be early, it is impossible for the music to happen before it is played :)
The sound from the main speakers would be late though.


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WK154

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2018, 11:19:55 PM »
Dan your quite right about "it is impossible for the music to happen before it is played :)" some composers might argue that  :). The "your listening can not be early" is not the case. I think the OP meant in the acoustic environment (direct, speaker or ambient sound) based on the original source (Singer or instruments) are picked up by the mics (short distance), then the speed of sound vs. the speed of electrons kicks in. Sound travels at about 1ft. per millisecond, electrons for all practical purposes are instantaneous. The IEM or headphones at (electron speeds) reach the FOH (traditional mixer position, usually quite a distance from mics) and will hear the original sound (in IEM's or headphones, solo) before the acoustic (sound wave) reaches most FOH positions hence the "listening early" part of his comment. This is even more pronounced as a delay is introduced for the mains (L&R) and IEM's or headphones are not delayed. This of course is based on trying to deal with the precedence or Haas effect and not trying to use delay as a FX. The laws of Physics hold in any case.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 11:53:59 PM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS

dpdan

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 03:52:32 AM »
wk
preaching to the choir

bradp015

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2018, 12:47:54 PM »
Hey WK,
He got ya!!!!

I think Dan was being sarcastic actually and "hearing early" and I got quite the chuckle out of it....

Dont fret, I have the interesting solution to my problem which ill post soon....and Im sure Ill be the "butt" of a few comments. Which I look forward to.... ;-)

best!
bradp

WK154

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 02:42:38 PM »
Hey bradp,
No worries it's his choir singing a little flat. I know he knows better but the words just didn't jive. He's one of the good guys on here and I'm pretty thick skinned having been in the charity business for some time. Looking forward to your explanation.
Cheers
When in doubt KISS

bradp015

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Re: dc16-solo+monitor@headphone jack trouble... +MF routing pages confusion
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 07:11:22 PM »
Ha!!!
Wk and Dan,
So.....
In my defense the actually problem wasnt my doing :-) (see if you agree)
So I work for a big company doing live mix for the meeting broadcasts and they stream world wide to all the employee's. I go  in there about 50 times a year. It's like the CEO and VP and heads of departments presenting to keep all in the loop about  company stuff. My producer (the boss) is an amazing person to work with, and Im fortunate to work with that team. All great people. Well the boss decided he didnt like me hunched over the new DC16 thats in a beautiful roll desk/cabinet (he also got that for me) and made a drawer type rig so I can slide out the dc16 to touch the ol' belly. I love working that way. Everything within easy reach. (ya, im lazy). He installed the drawer when i wasnt there and of course he unplugged everything to the dc16. I know what you're thinkin and you're prob. right without me even sayin' it....I believe (thats alleged, in case he see's this post....) he allegedly plugged the dante ethernet cable into the wifi ethernet port on the back of the dc16. (this actually works, you just dont have audio coming back to the dc16) The drawer by the way is sweet! Works great! Im lucky to have a producer that goes out of his way to make me happy. Hey, that makes me sound like a prima donna dont it!!! Im not really.

So Ive learned this lesson once again (I havnt had this too many times in my life, thank god!)..... Always confirm proper connectivity, never assume.... You prob. heard "when you assume you make an arse out of you and me"???? I once saw that on Bennie Hill show.... LOL....Feel free to take my embarrassment and go wild on the replies, I kinda deserve it!

Thank you guys for all the help you've offered. Gratitude!!!!

bradp