Author Topic: VCA in Monitor Mix  (Read 4206 times)

Boozer007

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VCA in Monitor Mix
« on: February 02, 2019, 02:54:28 AM »
Is there a way to use VCAs in monitor mixes?

I'm wanting to set up a simple way for some of the users to easily mix their monitors.  For example, I have set up a VCA for the drums so that the singers can easily turn the entire drum mix up and down in their monitors.  The problem is, it's only raising and lowering the level of the drum effects.

What gives?

Wynnd

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 02:12:33 PM »
That would be an interesting approach, but looking at it, I don’t think there is a way to make that work for an AUX out.  This is also something they probably wouldn’t want to make changes on during a show. 

dpdan

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 11:04:17 PM »
Boozer007,
First, welcome to the forum!
What DL mixer are you using?

« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 12:35:16 AM by dpdan »

WK154

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 11:34:15 PM »
Even if you could, someone else running FOH wouldn't want you to. Changing VCA  DCA (The Preamps channel's gain) to suit someones monitor mix would be foolish. The VCA's DCA's are there mostly to adjust the blend of various groups of instruments or backup singers.
Correction on Preamps should have been channel. The DL's don't have VCA's only DCA's. It's just  Mackie's Nostalgia. Too bad they don't indicate where in the signal chain this is implemented (Block Diagram of the DL1608).
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 07:40:50 AM by WK154 »
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dpdan

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2019, 11:47:40 PM »
altering the position of a VCA's fader does not change the gain of any of the preamps.

If the original poster is using a DL mixer with more than enough XLR outputs and one extra (unused) XLR input channel, all the drum channels could be assigned to a group, and it would be named DRUMS.
Then, route that DRUM group to one of the available (unused XLR) outputs on the "Routing" page.
Now make sure you "Unassign" the DRUM group from the Main L/R mix.
The XLR output would then be connected with a short XLR cable to an available (unused) XLR input.
This input would be named "DRUMS", and it is imperative that this "drum group" is NOT assigned to the Main L/R mix.

Any musician using a dedicated mix could then raise and lower the "drum group" fader to suit their needs.

It is a round about way to accomplish what would seem like a simple request,... but it would do the job.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 01:17:00 AM by dpdan »

WK154

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2019, 08:17:20 AM »
Dan it's best explained by Mackie here:
https://mackie.com/blog/what-vca
Exactly how it's implemented is not available to you or me.
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ToH2002

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 11:17:53 AM »
Is there a way to use VCAs in monitor mixes?

I'm wanting to set up a simple way for some of the users to easily mix their monitors.  For example, I have set up a VCA for the drums so that the singers can easily turn the entire drum mix up and down in their monitors.  The problem is, it's only raising and lowering the level of the drum effects.

What gives?

You need to be understand the fundamentals of what a VCA does: essentially, it "remote-controls" the channel faders, relative to their set positions. Most important: a VCA acts ONLY on the main mix (LR) faders, NOT on any aux channel faders.

This means: if a singer pulls on the drum mix VCA fader, he/she pulls down the drums IN THE MAIN MIX - the soundman will kill you for that!

The only effects a VCA has on aux mixes:
* if an aux is routed post-fader, it will be affected by VCA changes
* if an aux contains effects that are fed post-fader (typical for reverb), these effects will be affected by VCA changes (as you described)

But - most importantly: any use of VCAs will first and foremost affect the main output - something you definitely don't want to use in controlling monitor feeds!

A possible solution on some desks is to route the drums to a subgroup and then control the volume of this subgroup in the aux channels via the aux sends on this subgroup. Unfortunately, the DL mixers don't allow subgroups to be routed to aux channels, only to the main LR or to an individual physical output.

That is where Dan's workaround comes in: essentially, you create a sub-mix of the drums in a subgroup and send this to a physical output and feed it back via cables in via a free channel pair. This gives singers the option to control the volume of this specific channel pair in their monitor mixes. Of course, they need to mute the original drum channels in their monitor mixes and only hear and control drums via this new subgroup stereo pair. And, as Dan wrote, the output of this drum subgroup to the main mix needs to be muted

The downside of this approach is that with the drum mix into this subgroup being fixed, singers/instrumentalists can only control the aggregate volume of the drums, not the individual channels anymore. So, once you commit to this mixed drum channel pair, you can't suddenly decide that you want more hi-hat or less snare.

This is the reason that my aux mixes keep the drums as individual channels - the keyboarder wants a different drum in-ear mix than the singer or the guitar player.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Torsten

dpdan

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 06:00:22 PM »
Exactly how it's implemented is not available to you or me.
I don't need Mackie to inform me of how a VCA or DCA works.

What I also know is that a VCA/DCA will never affect the input gain of channels.
That's all I was saying, 
 

Ampli

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Re: VCA in Monitor Mix
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 05:17:44 PM »
I do most of the time asign all the aux masters (used for monitors) to 1 vca, incase of feedback i can quickly lower all the monitor mixes, controllin individual channels on the auxes is not possible