Author Topic: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?  (Read 656 times)

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2319
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2019, 09:28:21 PM »
It was cheaper to replace the mixer with something else and by inexpensive android tablets. They paid <100 bucks for their tablets this time.  Instead of over twice that.   Paid for the cost of the mixer they said just to buy everything new.

And this is exactly the challenge for developers. Cheap Android tablet owners expect the exact same performance, regardless of their components, OS flavor, as an iPad, yet for a developer it's a nightmare to have to expand coding, testing, etc. to cover the gamut of cheap android tablets that may or may not be compliant. So yes, they may work and be less expensive, but in the end it adds cost and overhead to Mackie, which means longer delays for all of us. I don't blame you or the churches for wanting to spend less, but it's important to understand what effect that has on the developer - doesn't matter if they're coding in-house or using outside teams, it's more work.

A REALITY CHECK here. Buyers are well aware that you get what you pay for and certainly don't expect the same performance or features of a inexpensive device vs a top of the line one. If they do then it's time to ignore their opinions. As to the effect it has on developers and their "difficulties" its time to find developers up to the job. I would certainly take David Schuhmann over all of the Mackie Android team in developing this application. Its quite simple to provide a list of devices (model# etc.) for the inexperienced to provide a shopping list of their tested devices. Neither Mackie or Behringer provide this unfortunately and there should be nothing to prevent this. It may even provide an incentive for tablet Mfg. to provide free test samples to Mackie as marketing expense. The Beta program also will provide other test device input. This is nothing new in the software industry. Stating the obvious is getting old quick Mackie.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 07:17:33 AM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2319
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2019, 09:42:35 PM »
John I respect your opinion but I would like to hear the reasons why?
"And no, Mackie should NOT release a partially completed product.  Not in my opinion.   "
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 09:48:46 PM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS

JohnMHoyt

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Greenville, South Carolina
  • Posts: 253
    • Hot As A Pepper Party & Event Band
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2019, 02:02:07 AM »
I reckon the companies that are doing it just have a lot more in the way of resources to develop their products and keep their users happy....  Those resources could be a result of having a larger client base due to expanded platform offerings, maybe.

Mackie can continue to support the one ecosystem I reckon. Maybe they can maintain a nice little niche of people who like being locked into one tablet manufacturer by changing marketing strategies and claiming they are the only ones who support just the one. Exclusivity turns some people on.

Wynnd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Denver Co.
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2019, 06:14:21 PM »
I understand the customer view that software updates should be free, but Compare with any DAW.  I use Cubase and generally upgrades in a version are about $100 for a previous version user.  Personally, I wouldn't be against Mackie charging for an upgrade version.  Being it's an app, $100 would be too much.  But most wouldn't be fazed by $20 - $50.  Cheaper to upgrade the firmware and app, then to purchase a new mixer.  My take anyway.   Also, I hold some Apple Stock and that has been much better to me than any of their products, but I really have come to appreciate the products they make.  No manufacturer is perfect and all have products that just don't work, but I'm still using my nearly 10 year old MacBook and don't want to upgrade until Apple starts making them available with a touch screen.  (Something they talk like they will never do.)

Wynnd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Denver Co.
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2019, 06:28:09 PM »
My new Dell laptop with touch screen.  Small, heavy for its size, considered a two way laptop/tablet.  Reasonable amount of memory, slow processor and about two hours on battery.  No back lit keyboard. When used as a tablet, you have to have a flat surface to put it on because the keyboard is still active.  And it doesn't do 5Ghz Wifi.  I got it cheap.    When I bought my MacBook Pro in 2010, I was only interested in the Firewire 400 for my recording hardware.  With that I got 10 hours of battery life, backlit keyboard, better screen than most laptops at that time, dual band Wifi capable, a read/write DVD/CD optical drive.  (The optical drive is the only failure I've had.)  I also was able to upgrade the memory and processor.  I did the memory, but the fastest processor isn't much faster than I already have.  I've upgraded the Hard Drive twice.  Currently running a SS one. It's now fast enough to record 16 tracks to the SS drive.  Previously I had to record to an external firewire drive.

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2319
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2019, 06:06:50 PM »
Getting back to the OP's original question and statements let me summarize things and correct some clear misconceptions expressed here.

The first sentence stated clearly "works perfectly" doesn't imply partial or Beta release. At last count there are four distinct products (iOS, Android, PC, MacOS) trying to serve six different mixer hardware products (Dl806, Dl1608, Dl16S, DL32S DL32R and Axis (DC16)). Just because this release is called V5.1 doesn't imply one product just it's functionality level. If just based on the control platforms it's at minimum four different products if not more. So what contrived reason would dictate a simultaneous release of all products? A poor marketing decision IMHO :). There are even clear benefits to staggered releases the least of which is the appearance of some progress. There also seems to be a misconception that there is only one development team. I can safely state that it's not the case in any reasonable product development of this nature. Behringer X-Air also started with the PC version (not Android) and the Android was subcontracted to David Schuhmann. In the case of Mackie trying to make all cross products look alike shouldn't prove a major obstacle since the basic design has been around since at least 2010. Over time more functionality was added and the development platform was changed courtesy of Apple strong arm tactics. Any new changes of the UI are minimal and easily defined for all teams and already exist (V5.0). They are not reinventing the wheel here! Statements such as "complete rewrite" is nonsense. Someone at Mackie could chime in and correct any of my assumptions, please do.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 07:18:10 AM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS

Wynnd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Denver Co.
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2019, 06:52:09 PM »
That sounds like a vote for a staggered release if any of the products is ready. 

pytchley

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: France
  • Posts: 176
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2019, 08:40:56 PM »
Something wrong with your MBP Wyndd, I bought a secondhand 2000 G3 500 powerbook and a MOTU 828 in 2002 and for 15 years at most of my gigs recorded up to 18 24bit tracks into Logic (adding a MOTU 2408 and something called a flying cow!) onto it's enormous 12Gb internal drive. Never a problem and it's still working now in retirement. Which is more than I can say of myself!

Wynnd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Denver Co.
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2019, 02:26:52 AM »
Before I got a faster drive, I would have total dropouts every so often.  Now I don't.  Not sure what the actual problem is, but I really don't care as it's not there anymore.   Also, recording isn't the critical thing for me.  (I don't do much of it.)

rolandvg99

  • Youngling
  • **
  • Location:
  • Posts: 13
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2019, 08:22:44 AM »
Why the fuzz? These mixers have been partial since day one. I bought mine when a user said he had a breakthrough on Android control after some reverse engineering and ampmix promised universal control. Then Mackie shut them all down and promised more than a year ago to widen their platform. It's a farce and I've bought a Soundcraft ui24r (which works great on all platforms) and will most likely not touch a Mackie product again.

JohnMHoyt

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Greenville, South Carolina
  • Posts: 253
    • Hot As A Pepper Party & Event Band
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2019, 02:32:43 PM »
It's a farce and I've bought a Soundcraft ui24r (which works great on all platforms) and will most likely not touch a Mackie product again.

Then why bother to come to these forums if you have moved on?  Mackie must hold some interest for you to invest your precious time reading and replying.

Wynnd

  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Denver Co.
  • Posts: 1365
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2019, 02:44:24 PM »
Only reason I can see, is he's pissed that we aren't following him.  I'm fine and MF 5.1 will only be a small improvement.  I've had almost a year of use with the DL16S and I'm quite happy with it.  I didn't have to purchast any new tablets to use it.  (I had two ready for the next MF upgrade already for use with my DL1608.)

JohnMHoyt

  • Knight
  • ****
  • Location: Greenville, South Carolina
  • Posts: 253
    • Hot As A Pepper Party & Event Band
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2019, 03:02:41 PM »
I've considered moving away from Mackie specifically because of multi platform support. I've looked at the offerings, tried them out.  But none of them offer exactly what I want across the board. Three dl32r hits more of my needs and wants than anything else.  I'm not willing to sacrifice in the other areas just to get multi platform support just yet.  I'll hang in there a little longer....   
When/if I do go, I don't think I'll have the time to invest in complaining about Mackie.  But who knows. Maybe I will. Hehe

rolandvg99

  • Youngling
  • **
  • Location:
  • Posts: 13
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2019, 03:39:25 PM »
Only reason I can see, is he's pissed that we aren't following him.  I'm fine and MF 5.1 will only be a small improvement.  I've had almost a year of use with the DL16S and I'm quite happy with it.  I didn't have to purchast any new tablets to use it.  (I had two ready for the next MF upgrade already for use with my DL1608.)

Having sold more than 100 units of these fenced in boxes to costumers since their first release I struggle to recommend Mackie over the other options available. No OSC, web or MIDI support, a total mess every time there's an update and two or three users haven't updated their apps etc. I've switched my recommendations to other brands.

I do still own a DL1608 for simple tasks. Recording has been hit and miss, ground related noise galore using standard PSU without a UPS. It's using an iPad 3 and an iPhone 6 for control. I do prefer my Moto or Soundcraft rig for maximum flexibility when doing a multiuser setup. None of these rigs are however perfect. I want Mackie to step up their game to keep these others pushing for the better.

Incerdible how people take criticism against their preferred gear as a personal assault. Generation easily violated are hard at play.

WK154

  • Door #3
  • Master
  • *****
  • Location: Valencia CA
  • Posts: 2319
Re: Should Mackie release a partial MF 5.1?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2019, 11:28:58 PM »
Chill out guys, we are about facts not emotions or opinions other than those based on  facts (substantiated) and reproducible. Time will be the ultimate judge.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 10:34:20 PM by WK154 »
When in doubt KISS