5.1 experience and router question

[Yorgaki1]

Like most, I  Had a bit of a struggle getting mf5.1/dl32r running on my multiple ipads which are all running the latest iOS 12.4.5, as they’ a bit older.

 I loaded 5.1 on my 3 iPads and iPhone (running 13). Opened 5.1 on my main iPad ( which isn’t used for anything else during a gig) answered yes to converting over my mf4 shows & Connected this main iPad to my 32r, and did the firmware update. Once complete, that iPad connected fine. Opened 5.1 on the other 2 iPads, answered yes to converting over the mf4 shows, and when I tried to connect, got the dreaded load and crash.  I deleted 5.1 on those 2, rebooted, reloaded 5.1, answered no to converting over the mf4 shows, ( thinking this might be a possible conflict), and voila, they all connected without crashing.

Had first gig last Saturday and had 2 issues. First, This has been discussed  already and I’m having the same issue, Grow and glow fader response is awful. Once it finally grows, the fader level jumps by what seems like up to 10db, based on the direction you’re moving the fader. I had to be very delicate to avoid the big changes in level.

Second, I had a couple of disconnections, which seem to be linked to a new cheapo dual wireless handheld mic system I added recently (for speeches and paging, not critical vocal reproduction). It runs on 2.4 ghz.  Turned off the mic and iPad immediately reconnected. I’m running an Apple airport express on 5ghz. So here are my questions, is there a method to avoid this disconnecting assuming it’s a frequency issue? Apple has stopped making this little router that has been a workhorse for me for over 7 years, is there a better model you recommend, as I feel like I need to carry a backup as this little guy is getting old.

Overall, If Mackie gets grow and glow response back to where it should be, I’m good. Is this happening to you guys with the latest and greatest iPads, or is the issue somehow my older iPads?

[dpdan]

Hi Yorgaki1,

my opinion about your slow "grow & glow" and disconnection issues I believe are all related to your old iPads.

I am sticking with 4.6.2 on my two DL32R units. I have a DC16 so that's why. If I did not have the DC16 I would indeed use 5.1 because the new features are so great.

I beta tested 5 for ages with my Generation 6 iPad 9.7 inch devices and there are absolutely no issues like you are having with 5.1 on a DL32R.
iPads are getting more and more affordable every day. I would suggest a new Generation 7 iPad for under three bills.
Yes, I am aware that there are other "tablets" available for far less, but I personally have no experience with them which is why I suggest the iPad.
 
https://www.microcenter.com/product/612225/apple-ipad-7---space-gray-(late-2019) 

[WK154]

From what you have explained there are some issues. First if your AE is only in the 5 GHz range the 2.4 GHz mics should have no effect unless they are also in the 5 GHz range. The mics are most likely BT (Bluetooth). Now for the adrenaline rush for the Apple fans, Apple is behind in the 5g and WiFi arena and out of the router business. I would recommend an 802.11/ax unit if for no other reason but to future proof it. Although not many tablets are using ax at present (Surface Pro 7 being one with ax) ac units can still benefit from an ax router such as
   https://www.walmart.com/ip/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-AX4-4-Stream-AX3000-Wi-Fi-6-Router-RAX35-100NAS/760226420?athcpid=760226420&athpgid=athenaItemPage&athcgid=null&athznid=PWVUB&athieid=v0&athstid=CS004&athguid=b59e7f08-b5b-1702907563370c&athancid=null&athena=true
At $129 it’s not breaking the bank. I am currently upgrading my network to ax, unfortunately the Tablets are not a practical upgrade, and there is something to be said for laptops in this instance. Intel has a M2/PCIe module for ax the AX200 at ~$20 for the upgrade for W10.
As for disconnects that is still a Mackie issue that needs to be fixed and no router can fix that. In my recent tests the W10 indicated that there was an Internet connection but there is no status for the DL connection. To fix that simply disconnect the WiFi connection in Windows setup and reconnect on the same router. This will reestablish the mixer connection with the DL and allow continued communications. No app needs to be restarted. No iPad is currently available with ax 

Only iPhone 11 has ax.

[Yorgaki1]

Thanks boys for your replies.

I picked up that netgear router at my local walmart, and will give it a try tomorrow night as we've got a dinner dance for 200+ in Chatanooga.

Like both of you, I can't believe the power we have at our finger tips with this mixer. I chuckle when I think back to the tens of thousands of pounds of load in and out, hours of running cables and interconnects, and have tried to forget coiling up a 16x8  100' snake at 2am when you're exhausted. I couldn't do it now. Maybe because I'm 55 and I've gotten comfortable with mf, and the form factor of the 32r is perfect for me. Mf's layout  makes sense to me. I love this little mixer.

I hope dc16 support comes back at some point for you dpdan (mf6). I can understand how bummed you are.

I really appreciate both of you, as well as some of the others here that are working hard to keep this group alive. I check in everyday.

Thanks!

George
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyeaf7-Y03c

[dpdan]

thanks for your very kind words!

I too still love the DL32R, and I am in the same boat as you, the lid for my analog console weighed about as much as my entire six space SKB case with five Sennheiser wireless receivers and ADJ Airstream DMX transmitter plus Airport Express router. I do not miss stacking the lids of my DSP racks. 

[WK154]

I'll second that on the kind words George. I do hope you will not try to open the box at your venue, you will need time to get familiar with all the features. Make sure that 2.4 and 5 GHZ are on separate SSID's. Bring that intimidating AE with you to keep that Netgear from misbehaving. It works for Wynnd  .  Please let us know how it went. The only snakes I now deal with are the singers sssss. A matter of mic technique and "I know how to use a mic". A loosing battle.

[WK154]

Dan I still think that Mackie could produce a iPad ONLY version of MF for the AXIS system. No-one with that system has any investment in other control surfaces anyways. I'm sure the effort would be minimal compared to a diverse platforms version if that's even possible. I also would have thought that you would have been testing the AXIS version all along. What is wrong at Mackie?

[dpdan]

they never provided a beta for the Axis, and I repeatedly asked why we were not able to test 5.1 on a computer in "desktop" mode, now we know why...
all the time I took explaining in detail about things that still were not fixed, then BOOM! It is released...

[WK154]

Dan I have a question about your configuration that you used for test. Since you have a DC16 and a Dante card in the DL32R are you just using the Dante card input for your normal router input. I believe that's a 1 Gbs connection and the standard DL32R network card input is only a 100 Mbps. This I believe can make a difference in the results. I still don't understand the reluctance of the MI to stay a little more up-to date in networking. The cost is actually less for the 1 Gbs chips variety. The 100 Mbs is almost extinct.

[dpdan]

Hi WK, I don't have a DL16S... oh you meant DC16... sorry,

The Dante card has two ethernet ports labeled A and B and one labeled WiFi control.
Most of my jobs I never even bring the DC16, on the jobs that I do, I have the A port of the DL32R's Dante card connected to the A port at FOH on the DC16.
The router's ethernet cable is connected to the WiFi control port on the DL32R as always.

The rest of your questions are over my head...
 

[WK154]

Right Dan. I fixed the typo to DC16. Perhaps I wasn't clear on my question. I was trying to find out if the connection was into a DL32R with a Dante card WiFi control port or the Standard DL32 network card control port that you were using. Since you have two DL32R's do you also have both with a Dante card? The Dante card WiFi control ports and the standard are at different speeds (Dante is ten times faster). Dante needs 1Gbs the standard is only 100Mps which most have that are using just the DL32R. The Dante card in fact has 5 1Gbs Ethernet ports and and 2 external optional and is a switch (Marvel 88E6350R chip). Three of which are made available (A,B, Control port). Technical, yes just an old habit, sorry.... . The point being that with the newer iPads (faster processors) and the Dante card (faster network) should make the response much snappier at a price  . It can also affect connection issues especially the network speed at 1,000% faster.

[dpdan]

Hi WK, when it comes to ethernet, IP addresses, pinging  etc.. I am at a loss. I do have a Dante card in both of my DL32R units... I did not know about the faster Wi-Fi Control port's speed on the Dante cards, that is really cool, (THANKS AUDINATE!) What I do know is that I have been very happy with how instantaneous the response of things are with the iPads. I use 9.7" iPads which are Gen 6. 

I have both DL32R mixers set up identical so that in the event one of them would go down... I quickly swap the Elco (EDAC) multi-pin for the short stage snake and I would then need to patch the five wireless receivers which are not part of the Elco multi-pin. I figure if I ever had to do that I (we) whoever that might be would be down for under three minutes,, that of course would seem like three hours but to have an identical mixer ready to go is comforting. Boot up the backup DL32R, choose to use the show from the iPad and then we're back well, as close as we were when I last saved the snapshot, which I do probably every couple of songs. Naturally, I have never needed the second (backup) DL32R.

I did a pretty big production at a local church at Christmas and I used both DL32R mixers. I used the (backup) DL32R on stage right for strings and woodwinds, (each instrument mic'd) and the other one on stage left for brass and percussion. I had the left and right main outs of the Strings/Woods mixer connected to two inputs on the main DL32R. I used one iPad for the Strings/Woods mix and a second iPad for the main DL32R mix. The stereo outputs of the "main" DL32R fed the church's Allen & Heath SQ6 where bass guitar, electric guitar, keyboards and drums were on their typical inputs. I think we ran somewhere near 60 inputs including praise team singers wireless mics, 6 choir mics and I can't remember the rest. All I know is it took over an hour for me to wrap all my mic cables (S-wrap). I am a stickler and kindly turn down someone's offer to help wrap cables. Anyway, everything worked great.         

[WK154]

Sounds like you have everything under control (except Mackie  ) and yes you are then using a 1Gbs connection for control. I get the tear down process, its faster than training someone else on the spot to help and get it right. Maybe something can be done to convince Mackie to change their mind about AXIS.

[dpdan]

Maybe something can be done to convince Mackie to change their mind about AXIS.

I wish you were right,,, but I think the management at Mackie, (if there is such a thing)... looks at the DC16 as a child with special needs.
Nobody wants one of those ... sadly.

Update Master Fader for the tens of thousands of users, and give the middle finger to a thousand or so DC16 users. 

On another note... Feb 1st was my last post on the Mackie "BETA" forum and nobody has been able to post anything, so, I guess they decided to no longer support that either....

[WK154]

Let me look at a couple of avenues over the next month. I remember another outfit in the Pro Audio business not too long ago, a division of Panasonic called RAMSA. They provided the Beatles with their road gear. The powers to be disbanded the division and left the users high and dry. Two years later they tried to reenter the market with a brand new digital line of mixers and no support for their  previous lines. Well they no longer exist in that business courtesy of their old user base. Reputations (Good Will in Co. lingo) has value and $$ is what investors are all about. Mackie's plunder of course is nowhere near what Panasonic pulled but it will cost them just the same. Products are discontinued all the time due to newer models,  but promising features in a current product and not delivering is frowned upon. We all can vote with our purchases.