Author Topic: WTF  (Read 219 times)

gtrdudes

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WTF
« on: March 15, 2020, 06:18:41 AM »
So Iíve dealt with my DL32 dropping channels and outputs.  I finally took it apart to re-seat all the ribbon cables.
1st gig was perfect.
2nd gig a week later the headphone jack doesnít work.
Aux 2 randomly shoots white noise at full tilt volume.
Iíve heard people say this but have never experienced it.
I used a different aux out to get through the gig.
Recommendations?

dpdan

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Re: WTF
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2020, 05:53:59 PM »
get a Yamaha TF Rack, a Yamaha Tio1608-D stage-box, and a Yamaha NY64-D Dante card.
Never look back...
32 inputs, 20 outputs
That is my honest advice...

« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 11:48:35 PM by dpdan »

JohnMHoyt

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Re: WTF
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 09:37:55 PM »
So Iíve dealt with my DL32 dropping channels and outputs.  I finally took it apart to re-seat all the ribbon cables.
1st gig was perfect.
2nd gig a week later the headphone jack doesnít work.
Aux 2 randomly shoots white noise at full tilt volume.
Iíve heard people say this but have never experienced it.
I used a different aux out to get through the gig.
Recommendations?

I have that same issue with my original DL32R which sits idle most of the time.  SUPER frustrating.  My newer one doesn't do this.  (yet).

Sorry =(

dpdan

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Re: WTF
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2020, 06:18:31 AM »
I don't expect any ribbon cable issues with the Yamaha TF, that will be nice.
The TF Rack has 16 inputs and 16 outputs on the rear, inputs 17-32 are of course on the front of the Tio1608-D Dante stage box mounted below the TF Rack.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 06:20:11 AM by dpdan »

JohnMHoyt

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Re: WTF
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2020, 12:32:36 PM »
Hey... You've got a little clipping going on there...

That's a great mixer. I've worked with it, but it just sucks for me.  Too many rack spaces and too darned expensive for a small praise group or band.
App felt a little klunky but hopefully they have improved it.

ToH2002

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Re: WTF
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2020, 05:31:19 PM »
A nice setup - absolutely! But a bit on the pricey side for me...

Any experience with the Soundcraft Ui24R anyone?

Looks like a decent replacement (as long as 24 channels are enough) with no app issues - and at a nice price as well.

Cheers,

Torsten

dpdan

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Re: WTF
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2020, 10:41:43 PM »
That's a great mixer. I've worked with it, but it just sucks for me.  Too many rack spaces and too darned expensive for a small praise group or band.
App felt a little klunky but hopefully they have improved it.

In my opinion,, I know I know, we all know about opinions.....
When comparing ANY digital mixer's "iPad APP", nothing is as great as Master Fader. It is a breeze to get around, even though I will share below my opinions about how I can live with the Yamaha StageMix app and some of the things I dreamed about having in Master Fader, but never saw the light of day.

There are indeed some differences comparing it to the DL32R granted, loaded with a Dante card at Sweetwater for $2,499.98. To compare these two systems fairly, they both need a Dante card. The TF system does indeed require more rack space for the same amount of inputs. I paid $1,349.00 for the TF Rack, $899.00 for the Tio1608-D stage box, and $349.00 for the Dante card, all brand new, free shipping and no sales tax from Sweetwater for a total of $2597.00 compare that system to a brand new DL32R with Dante card from Sweetwater and the DL32R its cheaper by $97.02. 

Now,, here are some pros and cons in my humble opinion of this Yamaha TF Rack system compared to a DL32R,... both fitted with a Dante card.

I am going to just touch base on the immediate differences here, with the DL being the winner for some and TF for others:
Both systems have typical four band PEQ, gate, and compressor on all inputs. All outputs have PEQ, GEQ and Compressor.

DL... 32 inputs, 16 outputs. TF has 32 inputs and 24 outputs. Not counting the headphone output on both.

DL...Dante... yes, TF yes.

DL... direct-to-disk onboard "multi-wav" recording YES!.... TF, no built-in multi-track recording, must have a laptop with DAW. That's a bummer, but multi-channel wav files on the DL are worse.

DL... a combination of "up to" twenty iOS and Android devices.... TF, only one iPad/Android can run StageMix, which is the app to run the mixer plus a combination of "up to" ten iOS and Android devices to run a separate app called MonitorMix which is really cool by the way. There is a Mac/PC computer app that can also run simultaneously which is called TF Editor.

DL...6 audio subgroups.... TF has none.

DL... 6 mono Matrix linkable for stereo, TF has only 4 mono, but they are linkable for stereo.

DL... 6 VCA, TF has 8.

DL...6 Mute Groups, TF has 6 also.

DL... the ability to un-mute any muted channel, even though it is actively muted from a mute group master.
TF, any input mute button can be used to toggle (over-rule) it's muted state, even though it is currently muted from a "MUTE GROUP MASTER". This is a HUGE feature that I/we have been asking Mackie for.... for five years.  :-\

DL...every input in every mix (Aux) can be individually set to PRE or POST, they don't ALL have to be PRE or POST like Master Fader,, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

DL...6 View Groups, TF, none, but the TF has a nice "Custom Layer" which allows the user to place any of the input and output channels in any order he/she sees fit. The DL has never been able to change the "viewed" order as they are on the Main L/R mix which is why we so badly needed the ability to copy an entire channel, so we can scoot things down or up, and now finally, we have that in Master Fader 5.1, but wait for it....  it's broke, it completely forgets to copy the preamp settings,.. REALLY??? It completely ignores the Source, Gain, Trim, 48V, Phase...  :facepalm: And since I am whining here... they "gave us" a new feature called "RESET CHANNEL", well,...  we always had that, but it never reset the channel. Now we have "RESET CHANNEL" but it does NOT reset monitor mix levels, main fader level, or preamp settings. What a mess! And they released this... I guess if it doesn't cause the mixer to shut down or crash the app that's OK.

DL... change the fader resolution for finer movement. NO, DL never had this... TF does. I sent Mackie a video of moving your finger away from the fader after it is touched, and as we move our finger away from the fader (left or right) this creates a higher resolution and the sensitivity of the fader movement becomes decreased, allowing a tiny amount of movement, if that is what is desired. Even Allen & Heath has this on their miserable app, but Yamaha has it, and in fact, this is not an APP design issue, it is something Apple put into their iOS devices a LONG long time ago. Oh well, it is nice to have that in the TF StageMix app.

DL...channel ID... NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY does this like Master Fader. Master Fader has name, color and even a real picture. TF has name, color and the most pathetic attempt at "icons", most of which can not really be identified by their look at a glance. A very miserable attempt by Yamaha.  :facepalm:

DL... SHOWS, SNAPSHOTS, yes, but scenes??? NO.
TF, does not have shows, but it stores all of your settings with a number and a name along with comments. And these are called....you guessed it.... scenes, like they should be called. Mackie has snapshots, but isn't that what the cute female backup singer's picture is? a Snapshot.., hmmm, snapshots to me have always been a picture. I griped at Mackie about this too but they said it was too late to change it.

DL... 4 effects, TF has 8.

DL...Routing... a very nice, intuitive "grid style" routing page (like Audinate's Dante Controller) for all of it's inputs, outputs, USB recording/playback, Dante etc.
TF, no routing page, but there are options for individual inputs, outputs, Matrix etc, and even shortcuts to set (All INPUT) (ALL USB) (All Dante) etc. Personally, I prefer the grid style myself. But, changing the routing in the grid in Master Fader takes forever, and the TF is way faster... this is not a game changer for me though because this is NOT something you would typically be doing while everyone on stage is shaking their heads staring at you, waiting for you to finish texting your friend.   
   
DL..."Snapshots" are stored on the iPad/iPads,... not in the mixer. TF, "Scenes" are stored in the mixer, and a backup is kept on a USB memory stick. Like the DL, the mixer will constantly create a current state loaded into it's RAM.
Since I am kinda poking fun at Master Fader, the organization of Snapshots was always nothing short of a disaster. If you have three iPads, every time I "replace" a snapshot, another "show" is piled up on all the other iPads, and never in any kind of order either. Keeping a clean house was nearly impossible, it is a huge mess, but necessary since Mackie wanted every connected device to be able to "recall" a snapshot at any given moment.
   
DL...set fader to 0 dB, NO. TF has a wonderful feature that you can turn on or off, it is called "Fader 0dB Detent" so when you are standing there forever setting a bunch of faders in Master Fader to zero dB, click on a fader, click on the information bar at the top, click on the value, iPad's keyboard opens then hit "0" then Enter. Brother,,,, with StageMix the fader will pause ever-so-slightly at zero if you want to stop there accurately. What a huge time-saver and what I call a blessing!       

One of the commonalities of mixing on an iPad with any product is swiping, swiping, swiping. 
One of the most common red flags to an audience that the "sound-man" is an idiot" is his/her inability to have a solo voice or instrument "up in the mix IN TIME". Swipe swipe swipe... To help eliminate this all too often missed cue, Yamaha has grouped the faders in groups of eight, and all the channels for everything are in order from left to right across the top of the app, inputs 1-8, 9-16. 17-24, 25-32, St inputs/FX, DCA, AUX 1-8, Aux 9-16, Aux 17-20.... etc, etc. Clicking on any one of these small boxes immediately takes you to that area on the iPad. WONDERFUL!!!!!!!
Presonus does this too, I wish Master Fader could but it doesn't matter to me now... until I have to mix a job on a DL32R that is already set up and owned by one of the many groups that I mix for on occasion.

Some blatant misses that Yamaha has is, (for whatever reason) their lack of choosing to use colors to identify the status of most of the buttons.
For instance, buttons labeled ON are grey when they are off, but when the button is in the "ON" position it is white.  :facepalm: 
How about green when the button is in the "ON" position and either red or grey when it is off? And another thing that really baffles me but I'm already used to it... the "MIX SELECTOR" that is to the left of the Main L/R fader... it could not be smaller. Oh my word Yamaha! You only get to see the names of the mixes if you touch and quickly slide up and down the list....geez! 
Conveniently though, clicking on let's say MIX 4, we can go immediately back to the main mix by hitting MIX 4 a second time. That is how most digital consoles work, but not Mackie's.... push, push, push, push and finally we're back.   :-[
Master Fader, we're on the Main mix, one tap to get to choose a mix, a second tap to choose the mix, a third tap to go back to the selection of mixes to choose from and finally a fourth tap MAIN. Master Fader, four taps for this process,.... TF StageMix, two taps. Mackie could have improved this, but my guess is that they are the only company that does not look at the competition's app when they want to make their's better.

OK, enough,
well wait... one thing that absolutely blew my mind with the Yamaha, and it's not good...
NONE, did you read that? NONE of the monitor mix outputs have delay. If you want to use a pair of speakers half-way back in a long room or maybe a second set outdoors or whatever, and you need to set the delay on them, the only way is to use a Matrix for that mix because the only outputs on the TF mixer that has delay is Matrix, and there are only four, which for me is just enough sometimes, but that is just ridiculous. And, the headphone "monitor" mix has delay, I forgot about that.

Overall, I really like the TF system more than I thought I would, I won't ever miss ribbon cable issues.       
Over and out 5x5
     
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 01:41:08 AM by dpdan »

JohnMHoyt

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Re: WTF
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 10:45:39 PM »
your wireless display is orange/red....    I thought that was clipping on the Sennheisers

dpdan

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Re: WTF
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2020, 01:35:18 AM »
on that Sennheiser EW500 receiver, the display turns red when it's muted,
the older EW100 receivers don't.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 01:37:03 AM by dpdan »

JohnMHoyt

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Re: WTF
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2020, 12:48:59 PM »
Ahh okay...   I had some sennheiser gear that went red on the display if the audio signal was peaking.   Don't remember which one it was. Been a while =)