Author Topic: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation  (Read 46023 times)

RoadRanger

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Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« on: March 27, 2013, 04:37:12 PM »
I think the five most needed "fixes" for me are:

#1: An "always visible" master FX mute on the top line just to the right of the "Mixer" button (when present),

#2: Stereo linking of inputs for keyboards and playback sources.

#3: Stereo linking of outputs for IEM's and/or keyboard monitors.

#4: Aux sends switchable to pre-comp, per aux and preferably per channel.

#5: Pad the iPad playback by 10 dB

Whatcha all think?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 10:19:44 PM by RoadRanger »

AbbaAgain

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2013, 04:50:35 PM »
All the above, and perhaps a switchable Aux 6 as a mono out, you would be able to set the output to the mono out but it would also increase or decrease with the main L,R masters. This would be great for running subs or connecting to a second P.A.

RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2013, 05:18:17 PM »
All the above, and perhaps a switchable Aux 6 as a mono out, you would be able to set the output to the mono out but it would also increase or decrease with the main L,R masters. This would be great for running subs or connecting to a second P.A.
If they do that I'd also want to be able to HPF the mains and LPF the aux so I could run aux driven subs without an external crossover :) .

AbbaAgain

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2013, 05:45:04 PM »
I'm all for that! ... While we are in the complete realms of fantasy , it would be great if some body designed a midi surface that the ipad  could plug into which would make all channels accessible with real faders and mute buttons. I say this as I recently did sound at a theatre for a performance of rent. It would have been great to have used the on board functions on the dl1608 , but to scroll and mute mics on the ipad for each number and hit the mute buttons dead on each time is impossible . But with a desk with real faders and mute buttons operating the ipad which in turn operated the 1608 would be amazing...I know it defeats the object of being able to walk around the venue with pad in hand, but for a theatre show with 16 mics that need constantly muting and un-muting , for me this would be great!

WK154

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2013, 07:09:29 PM »
Let me just summarize what is on the Mackie DL1608 Users Suggestion page top 5 that are possible with the existing hardware.  Probably should start one here for History.

1. Parametric Eq.'s or other means to deal with nasty feedback frequencies. There are duplicate requests that would be satisfied with this addition.
2. Groups (eight)  linking should be OK with this. DCA's would be able to live with this.
3. UI cleanup for display of used channels and my favorite MUTE in a different place. Some info on what your into on title page.
4. Mute Mains or break switch real basic. Some variants including mine.
5. RTA or other feedback indicators or solutions. Once again with #1

These are the top requests along with other convenience and ID access on the main page.

My prediction: You'll never see this because unless there is a major change at Mackie on ownership it will die at 1.4 although I would love to be wrong on this.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 07:15:07 PM by WK154 »
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Nottoodeaf

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2013, 04:13:29 PM »
Never was on my list before, but a master fader for the auxes (or DCA to link them) would be nice.  I was running five monitor mixes when some feedback slipped in.  Swiping through 5 pages and pulling back faders while the feedback continued was excruciating.
Does that have to be there?  Not anymore!

RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2013, 04:27:02 PM »
Never was on my list before, but a master fader for the auxes (or DCA to link them) would be nice.  I was running five monitor mixes when some feedback slipped in.  Swiping through 5 pages and pulling back faders while the feedback continued was excruciating.
What I want is a page of all the masters like the iX16 will have :) .

Nottoodeaf

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2013, 04:54:56 PM »
That would do it...just one swipe and a five finger pull.
Does that have to be there?  Not anymore!

LeeSteel

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2013, 05:13:17 PM »
I believe those are my top 5 also RR!  :) :)
Plug up one ear and make it mono!

Kevin

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 05:41:05 PM »
Quote
That would do it...just one swipe and a five finger pull.

True, although that's a fairly blunt tool for dealing with feedback - but you raise a good point. Dealing with feedback is a bit of a weak spot on the DL. Generally you can see the swell in the input level and its usually the closest monitor to the mic but not always. It would be nice to have some integrated RTA indicators. AFAIK the only solution now is to be really aggressive on ringing out the monitors and try not to change EQ or dynamics too much during the show (although sometimes its inevitable).

Personally, I'd be happy with the user group's top 5, although I would swap #4 for Roadrunner's #4. Also, the ability to hear the solo output remotely would be handy.

Most of the features I'd like to see would require new hardware - which I hope is in the works, but not getting too much attention until Mackie smooths out some of the wrinkles in the existing DL.

WK154

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2013, 07:20:32 PM »
I think that five is the band aid and more like 7-9 (including RR #4 and more) would keep it competitive with it's hardware shortcomings. What frost me is their description in the Users Guide of "Think of it as today's CR1604... but digital and unplugged."The DL doesn't come close to the CR on routing flexibility and never will. Their effects are under fire so what does this leave? Walking around and looking cool with an iPad! I can buy a $25 mixer and have, that will make it look like a toy. It's PC  based. I may post this under the DIY topic if someone is interested.
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RoadRanger

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2013, 07:45:22 PM »
I can buy a $25 mixer and have, that will make it look like a toy. It's PC  based. I may post this under the DIY topic if someone is interested.
Do tell :) .

WK154

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2013, 07:56:50 PM »
OK! I'll need to take some Pics. Right now I'm not in a good mood doing taxes and being reminded of what my hard earned $ are supporting. Next week. The variants of this have been in use for about 6 yrs in my wives classroom. I have used it about 4 yrs in the school environment ( much tougher than MIL spec). Where else can you get a precision 12 output signal generator for that money? OK the cables cost double that!
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Kevin

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2013, 08:14:05 PM »
Quote
What frost me is their description in the Users Guide of "Think of it as today's CR1604... but digital and unplugged.

Yeah, that was a bit of a stretch, but hopefully also a goal that they believe they can reach with future upgrades.

Quote
The DL doesn't come close to the CR on routing flexibility and never will.

As long as they havent run out of DSP processing bandwidth, I dont see why they couldnt get pretty close.  Obviously not as much I/O, but the better their processing is, the less I/O you need.

Quote
Their effects are under fire

I never understood the complaints about the effects. Maybe because I've been using the same pair of Quadreverbs for the past 20 years. I'm a simple man with simple needs.

Quote
so what does this leave? Walking around and looking cool with an iPad!

cmon! you gotta admit that's worth something! I dont know about you, but I'm not turning many heads on account of my good looks. Not having to scout out a good spot for the desk and roll out a snake is huge! Being able to sell off most of my outboard gear and nearly pay for this thing is almost like getting a free mixer. I'm not saying that Mackie doesnt still have quite a bit of work to do - but the glass looks a lot more than half full to me.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 08:15:43 PM by Kevin »

WK154

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Re: Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2013, 09:38:16 PM »
First off they just don't have the physical outputs without a new incarnation of the DL. Second it's not about DSP power it's about their design approach. My $25 mixer has 9 DSP's, two FPLA's a 32bit Micro (M68000 new version) an Altera Flex and a N16550 micro for com. They have one DSP and no FPLA according to BenO. It has no switch FPLA, too complicated! Granted the MSRP was around $5200 new for this but we have to deal with today's reality. I purchased 5 for $125 including shipping, although I paid as much as $60 for one, BFD. Spend $8 for a new fan and you have a new unit. Mackies digital delay is 1500 usec but it may contain a lot of leeway. They could realistically take it to 3000 usec before anyone would notices the feared digital delay. My unit has 150 usec delay and if you throw in an additional processing cycle (something you cant do with Mackie) it adds another 150 usec delay. That's up to 15 filters including crossover filters. Twelve inputs (8 mic and 4 line) and 12 outputs thru a 32x32 matrix switch which is expandable to 8 units and gives you 96 (64 mic) x 96. I think that's more than enough for all of you. Why wait for the crippled DL3208? Check it out it's a XAP800 by Gentner/ClearOne. Polycom's Ef2280 is similar but I don't like the Power supply solution (like the DL). Software was not intended for live venues but I finding it no worse than MF overall. It's also published and controllers are available for it. No secrets! I just walk around with a Toshiba tablet (6 yr old XP). OK I sit most of the time. I bought the DL for evaluation and finding it lacking in too many places. It will be on the chopping block soon after my screwdriver gets used to unveil the mysteries. I was waiting for 1.4 before doing this just to see if they took care of basics like their screwed up meters. Did I mention individual Phantom Power ? Before you come down on me by not having 48V check you Mics, a lot can handle 24V. The preamp can handle most situations at optimum S/N with attenuation down to 0.5 dB. Inputs and outputs are via Phoenix connectors so the most expensive part of the system are the Phoenix to XLR or TSR connectors at  $60 +. for 24.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 11:33:52 PM by WK154 »
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