Master Fader V2.0 Wants and Speculation

[Kevin]

Check it out it's a XAP800 by Gentner

Interesting piece of hardware. Why are they going so cheap on ebay? The units are only a few years old. Is some conferencing related industry switching to something else and dumping these or is there some other reason that they are now obsolete?

I'm not sure I would call it a $25 mixer.  I could see how a couple of these plus a decent case and XLR I/O could get you a powerful DIY mixer for 200-400 bucks, depending on how heavy duty you wanted.  Throw in another 200 bucks for a PC with Wifi that you can control wirelessly with Remote Desktop and then you could give DL a run for the money if the software is any good.

So if these units and the software are all that, why did you buy the Mackie? Why not take advantage of the delay of 1.4 and lack of berringer, corner the market on used XAP800's and start building cheap turnkey wireless mixers and make a fortune on eBay. You could be the next Greg Mackie. Just dont screw up your user forum.

Seriously, I would like to see pics of your rig, it sounds cool. same goes for the DL if you tear it down. 

BTW - What would be the point of putting an FPLA switch on the DL when there is only one DSP?

[RoadRanger]

BTW - What would be the point of putting an FPLA switch on the DL when there is only one DSP?

Good point - as I said on the old forum the firmware should be able to route anything to anything with this hardware .

[WK154]

Kevin:
Why so cheap? Good question, here's my take. Corporations go belly up and their boardrooms get the furniture guys in, plush chairs and tables are premium They just don't know what to do with the electronics. Then there is no secondary market. No installer is going to install a used unit into a corporate install. Other companies just get rid of these as they upgrade to newer units.  Remember these things installed run around $10,000. If there is a run on these on eBay the price will certainly go up. I have all I need. Oh and some of you audio guys will pay double for the initially less expensive PSR1212 a stripped down version of the XAP800 for sound reinforcement. Turn off the AEC and NLP and you have a PSR1212. I also have their new units the Converse series 880 and 880i but I don't like the software as much. I retired the AP800's (earlier version) just to keep the software the same and XAP800 has a signal generator built in that comes in handy. As I stated before the software was not designed for live use but it still has all the controls and you may not have to babysit it during a performance. There are also knob and slider control addons for those who really feel the need. I use them with a Bluetooth wireless serial connection. Can you spell RETIRED and having fun? I'll leave business and screwing up the forum to others.  State tune for Pics next week on a Mackie schedule. The FPLA switch would have been necessary for speed if you had more DSP's . BenO gave that as the reason for just the one DSP. I already have a buyer for this unit patently waiting. Custom case and all. For all I know I may find a Xmos unit at the heart of the DL.  Back to taxes.

[RoadRanger]

So, what does everyone think about the second half of yesterday's announcement from Mackie?
https://www.facebook.com/Mackie :

My Fader v1.0 and Master Fader v1.4 are completely wrapped up and awaiting App Store approval. Should have release news soon. Thanks everyone for hanging in there. I hesitate to say it, but we are already knee-deep in v1.5 stuff and you guys are going to be very excited. Finally time to hit some of the major things you have been asking for!

[WK154]

Sounds like the choices are made. I wonder if they have the guts to post them on their "Feature Request Forum" anytime soon? For now only the old choices are listed.

[ChiroVette]

I know that this is NOT going to happen like...ever with this mixer because of physical limitations, but I would love to see the ability to record multi-track with this mixer. Now that isn't an underhanded complaint. I ordered the mixer this week knowing full well that the mixer probably couldn't handle that function and considering I paid $825.00, brand new, for this beautiful piece of machinery, how can you go wrong?

But since this really is about a "wish list" that's about the only thing I can think of that I want to see.

[Kevin]

what does everyone think about the second half of yesterday's announcement from Mackie?

Yep, that last bit was very gratifying to see. I think that the expected useful lifetime of my DL just got longer! I wouldnt be surprised if it was also meant as a shot across berringer's bow.

I really hope that 1.5 comes with a nice RTA/FFT function, and/or the ability to use the solo remotely. For me, thats the weak spot in my setup right now. Speaking of which, does anyone even use the solos currently? I dont see the point if the only way you can get to the solo bus is with headphones. You cant use headphones on stage. Sure a lot of other boards do it this way. They also are located far from the stage. Maybe I am just thick and missing something, but I'm hoping that Mackie has some better future plans for the solo bus.

PEQs on outputs would be nice, but I would probably be the only one at gigs who notices. Separate EQs for L/R would be more useful for me (eg when the only place to put one side of the main stack is close to a wall). Having a CD horn curve for the mains would be nice. I hardly ever change this, but when I do its a PIA to set in the crossover.

Lack of subgroups was a PIA. I have mostly gotten used to it but it would be nice to have them again. I have no use for stereo IEMs, but can see how they would be nice for reducing stage volume. Only showing the used channels would be nice, although I've gotten used to starting with the high channels and working my way down (since I always have a few line inputs)

RR - why is the effects mute your #1? I must have missed whatever old thread that was in. Handy yes, but #1?

I do miss all of those threads on the old forum where users were arguing about what features Mackie should add next. Yeah there were quite a few flame wars, but also a lot of useful DL operating tips for a former lurker like myself to pick up.

Sounds like the choices are made. I wonder if they have the guts to post them on their "Feature Request Forum" anytime soon?

I hope so, because if they are not going to add RTA functionality, I'm going to need to drop some money on some 3rd party HW and SW and I'd really like to know sooner rather than later.

I know that this is NOT going to happen like...ever with this mixer because of physical limitations, but I would love to see the ability to record multi-track with this mixer

Well, you kinda/sorta can now - just not using the DL/iPad.  You do after all have 8 outputs on the DL

[RoadRanger]

Speaking of which, does anyone even use the solos currently? I dont see the point if the only way you can get to the solo bus is with headphones. You cant use headphones on stage.

You can side-stage, I do it all the time. You have to use high isolation headphones though, I use "Direct Sound EX-25".

RR - why is the effects mute your #1? I must have missed whatever old thread that was in. Handy yes, but #1?

IMO the #1 thing that separates a pro soundguy from a hack is the pro mutes the FX between songs when the talent is talking to the audience.

[...] if they are not going to add RTA functionality, I'm going to need to drop some money on some 3rd party HW and SW and I'd really like to know sooner rather than later.

I didn't see any love for that from Mackie so I'd guess it's not going to happen in the near term .

[Kevin]

IMO the #1 thing that separates a pro soundguy from a hack is the pro mutes the FX between songs when the talent is talking to the audience.

OK, I freely admit to being a hack, but even taking that into consideration, I still dont get this. The thickest processing I put on vocals is with a reggae band, and that would just sound weird if I killed all the FX while the singer was talking. Maybe if I was running a really long thick delay from the last song that made normal speech completely garbled, I might change or kill the delay, but I usually do that after a song ends anyway (IF I am using delay, and being a hack, I usually dont, unless the band really wants/needs it). Usually, I just find a subtle reverb, like a plate or room, that the singer likes and leave it set all night.  I guess I can imagine that there are some more extreme vocal effects that might work on a particular song but not for hawking CDs, but in that case wouldnt you still just switch to a less extreme FX so that the singer doesnt completely drop out of character? What is an example of a vocal situation where I should reconsider my hackish ways?

I didn't see any love for that [RTA] from Mackie so I'd guess it's not going to happen in the near term

Other than saying that 1.4 is ready and 1.5 in progress, I havent seen much love from Mackie period. What is this Mackie love that you speak of?

I do wish Mackie would go through the "UserVoice" list and mark them as "Planning to implement", "Under consideration", "Not planned at this time", or "Not possible with the present hardware

That is a really excellent idea, and one that would probably get Mackie some more sales in the short term, particularly if they can commit to some sort of roadmap. I can certainly see a potential DL1608 buyer thinking "I really want subgroups, but could live without them until June (or whenever), so maybe its time pull the trigger now"  or "it looks like I will probably be able to sell all my rackmount PEQs in a few months, so cost of moving to the DL just dropped a few hundred bucks" If you have any pull with the folks at Mackie (which you damn well should, after setting up this forum) please put that bug in their ear.

[RoadRanger]

All's I can say is sound professionals are going to notice that you aren't killing even a subtle 'verb when the band is just talking to the audience - and are going to notice that you are. Whether you care or not is up to you .

[Kevin]

All's I can say is sound professionals are going to notice that you aren't killing even a subtle 'verb when the band is just talking to the audience

Ha! Busted! Yeah, I dont think I've ever noticed that.  I'll have to start paying a bit more attention when I am out and about to see if I (a) can notice and (b) like the difference enough to change my hackish ways. I suppose I could see doing this in some sort of intimate singer songwriter situation, where dropping the reverb while the performer is telling a story would make the spoken voice seem more personal.

but I think we'll see my other 4 top five in V1.5

Any elaboration on this? Obviously, it would just be speculation, but given that you pretty much called the Friday release of 1.4, I'd be interested in whatever speculation you've got on 1.5  - eg do you think we are we likely to see usable sub-groups or just stereo linking of inputs? Any other stuff besides your 2-5 list that we might be likely to see (barring complications)?

[RoadRanger]

but I think we'll see my other 4 top five in V1.5

Any elaboration on this? Obviously, it would just be speculation, but given that you pretty much called the Friday release of 1.4, I'd be interested in whatever speculation you've got on 1.5  - eg do you think we are we likely to see usable sub-groups or just stereo linking of inputs? Any other stuff besides your 2-5 list that we might be likely to see (barring complications)?

They actually said something about "by Easter" on FaceBook and I couldn't imagine they wanted to be over one month late (they had announced V1.4 being available by the end of February) - no superpowers involved . I remember them saying something about stereo linking and pre-comp auxes being in the works but zero about subgroups so again no superpowers involved .

Myself, I see little value in subgroups on a 16 channel mixer except as a means to work around other issues that they should "fix" anyways.

[LeeSteel]

Personally, when I am speaking to the audience, I don't want any fx on my voice. I use a Boss VE-20 though and all I have to do is step on the button. The verb and delay in the DL (in my case) are only used for drums and backing vocals who don't have an external processor.

[Kevin]

Myself, I see little value in subgroups on a 16 channel mixer except as a means to work around other issues that they should "fix" anyways.

Any time when the room is big enough to make mic'ing all the drums worthwhile, its nice to have a subgroup for the drums (although yeah, the level on that sub hardly ever changes unless there are stage volume issues). Sometimes for a horn section, sometimes BG vocals. Necessary? No. Keeps perspective buyers in their comfort zone? Yep.

The verb and delay in the DL (in my case) are only used for drums and backing vocals who don't have an external processor.

Speaking of which, a 2nd FX path would be nice. I sometimes like a gated reverb on the snare if the room is big enough for it to be noticeable.

[Kevin]

What do you all think about an option to send the solo bus to the 30pin ipad connector? Then if the iPad is docked or on a cable, you could swipe from MF to any 3rd party FFT/RTA and see all your input channels and auxes, swipe back to EQ. Not as good as integrated FFT/RTA but better than nothing and seems to me like it should be easy to implement in the short term. As long as its an option to send the solo bus to 30pin out or not, that would probably work OK for everyone for now, no?