Bassaholics Anonymous > Cabs

Bass Cabs as Subs

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RoadRanger:
I'm presently using my pair of 34 lb GK 212MBE 2x12 cabs powered at 600wrms each as subs when I don't need more. They are the 4 ohm versions and powered with a Behringer NU3000. The drivers 8 ohm neo 300wrms GK.

My "normal" subs are Danley TH-Mini's powered by that same amp bridged (about 1200wrms per cab). Those are 8 ohm single 12 tapped horn cabs about the same size but over twice as heavy :( . The driver is a non-neo 700wrms B&C .

This is a photo of the 212MBE's in action. Note that it was taken with a flash, the drivers are normally not that visible :) :



The monitors are made by Ramsdell Pro Audio in FL and are a custom made "cut down" version of their standard 10" coaxial model. The LF driver is a Eminence 250wrms and the HF driver is a PAudio. They are driven from a pair of Peavey IPR1600's. My amp rack has all three of the mentioned amps in a Gator GR-6S rack and weighs under 40 lbs !

Greg C.:
They should certainly give you some extra low punch compared to tops only, but I suspect the low frequency extension is lacking relative to real subs.

RoadRanger:

--- Quote from: Greg C. on September 12, 2013, 12:52:29 AM ---They should certainly give you some extra low punch compared to tops only, but I suspect the low frequency extension is lacking relative to real subs.

--- End quote ---
Just looking for the 50-100Hz octave. Nothing much musical happens below that except in DJ music.

Greg C.:

--- Quote from: RoadRanger on September 12, 2013, 01:30:30 AM ---
--- Quote from: Greg C. on September 12, 2013, 12:52:29 AM ---They should certainly give you some extra low punch compared to tops only, but I suspect the low frequency extension is lacking relative to real subs.

--- End quote ---
Just looking for the 50-100Hz octave. Nothing much musical happens below that except in DJ music.

--- End quote ---

Oh I beg to differ :) There is quite a bit going on actually even with a good kick drum, 5 string bass, keys & synths, cajon, sound effect pads, etc. Subs with extension down into the lower 30Hz or even mid to upper 20Hz range add a whole new dimension to live sound reinforcement. The only reason why you didn't find subs before the late 80s that could that was because the amp power and driver technology wasn't available. Most of the big concerts you go to nowadays have subs capable of sub 30Hz performance for most types of music genres. Rock, country, punk, pop, even the easy listening crap use rigs with subs that go deep. Believe me, there's a huge difference in system impact on the rigs that don't go below 40Hz vs. ones that do. But nothing beats the power of the demonstration. When I moved to the town I'm in now and installed my system in the venue it lives in currently, people said I didn't need that much sub. I've done A/B demos for the local folks where I run the high pass on the subs from 25 Hz during sound checks up to 40Hz (my subs are usable down to ~23Hz with a box cutoff at 20Hz). The difference even playing Pink Floyd tracks is jaw dropping when you go down low.

RoadRanger:
I'll agree that recorded music does benefit (hence my comment about DJ music). Live music you can easily end up with mountains of mud. Plenty of (most?) bass players use rigs that have their -3db above 50 Hz, even those using 5 strings. I play bass and have no use for those nasty fundamentals. Most small club bands I see are mixed WAY too muddy. I'm often complemented on the clarity of my mixes - and yes, I do usually run "sub hot" with plenty of chest thumping kick (which is 70Hz+). I run a Maxxbass processor that gives me apparent extension down to 20Hz when running recorded music but generally bypass it during the live show:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental

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