recording volume/playback very low

[mr.happy]

Hey all, very new to the makie1608 but impressed.Tried recording last night,just pushed the botton and that was it. I thought.I found the file and listened to it ,could hardly hear it .Is there a level slider or something? Thank you for any helpo you can give me.

[Wynnd]

Somewhere in the forum, they said that the recording wasn't controlled by the master LR at all.  If you're not using most of the gain in the trim and channel outs, it might result in a very low volume output.  I've experienced the same thing, but have enough gain available to bring it up to a viable level to listen to.

[Jerrylee]

You can do a few things to make this better.

1) keep as is and normalize the file.
2) get you input and mix levels to a higher level.
3) my favorite way. Use an aux or two as your mains and create a separate recording mix with the mains. This way you can get levels high without affecting output. And you can create a better sounding recording mix.

[WK154]

Sounds to me like a gain structure problem. Nothing wrong with the LR bus levels unless you have the afore mentioned problem. The lame Mackie record function takes the signal off the main LR bus after the mains compressor and GEQ and records it (0 on the strip gets you -16dB FS or about 4-6 dBu on this mixer in the file). The vague diagram for recording on pg 136 of the manual. It would have been nice to at least display the LR bus loudness in the iPad meter when recording. The only level control that you have is from the channel strips compressor and GEQ. The main LR fader has nothing to do with recording. The biggest problem is the round about way of playback. Apple handed Mackie the code on a silver platter since iOS 2 but it must have been a rush job just to say that you can record. If you need to play immediately after recording use one of the many free apps that allow this. What I don't understand is that a company that relies on the iPad as a necessary part of the equipment to function ignores the most basic features provided by the iPad and that is core audio. Why would you try to reinvent the wheel when a company that knows it's own product better than Mackie ever will provides you with the code to deal with audio. It also opens up access to many other uses for the DL in the audio world. Even if you're not a programmer here is the link to Apples overview of their audio concept most of it available since iOS2.   https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/AudioUnitHostingGuide_iOS/AudioUnitHostingFundamentals/AudioUnitHostingFundamentals.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009492-CH3-SW11
or the more general:
https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/MusicAudio/Conceptual/AudioUnitHostingGuide_iOS/Introduction/Introduction.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40009492

[Keyboard Magic]

This may be a really noob question, but aren't the recording levels tapped off the same preamps as the main output? There really shouldn't be such a big difference between the two. Usually on an analog mixer the line outs (and RCA stereo outs) should receive the same signal levels as the main outputs? Yes, there is usually, but not always a physical level control on the RCA (record) and line outs.

It's not a big deal for me particularly, since if I need to do a quick recording session I can use the main outs to an external USB recording device to my laptop, running my DAW etc. etc. etc. 

If I am totally out in left field with my assumptions, I stand (or sit) corrected and would really appreciate being educated on this particular issue with the DL. 

[WK154]

Forget Mackie's record app and use VoiceRecord Pro free at the app store then you can also play back immediately without having to standing on your head with iTunes.

[Jerrylee]

KM, there is a ton of useful information here in these forums. You can find information on almost every aspect of the dl including recording questions.

[Keyboard Magic]

Thank you all for your replies. 

Yes I will give VoiceRecord Pro an in depth look and also do some more digging on the site for more excellent tips and information.  I've been playing around with the Focusrite Tape app too. Any opinions on this one?

[Harpman]

Bill,

Doesn't matter whether you use MF record or VoiceRecord Pro (even tried ver. 7). My gain structure is optimal.  Output is still too low.  Just purchased a 16 channel splitter-snake and going to run 16 into my DL and 16 into my Focusrite 18i20 and be done with it.

[Jerrylee]

Gio you should have bought a different board and been done with it. An X would have been cheaper, easier and a major upgrade to what you have set up. What the heck is wrong with normalizing a file or using the aux for mains route? Some people are making this way to difficult.

[WK154]

Gio,
Simple test to verify recording levels. You do need a good RMS meter and a stable signal source. I used a 1k sine wave simulating your Focusrite line level output to the Mackie mic/line in using the old analog standard of +4 dBu that's 1.23V rms for the input signal. Turn all faders to 0 and mute all non test channels. Also disable all EQ etc. on input and output. We just want the input signal unmodified. Bring the test signal on the channel to 0 on meter and you should have a output signal of -1.5 dB or so less than input. You could adjust channel fader to give you a 1.23 rms value on the L&R output to keep it simple like I did. You can now record using VoiceRecord pro and the VU meter should be around -2.3 VU. Record about a minute, stop and turn mute off on iPad channel and mute test channel  for playback. Play back recording using VoiceRecord pro and your rms meter will give you the same value that you recorded in my case 1.23V rms. MF meter should be the same as when you recorded. Based on this test I would say something is not correct in you gain structure causing the low output. Again you should be using the Focusrite preamps for all of your amplification and the Mackie around unity gain. Faders will function with the normal use, minor adjustments to levels. You can still use L&R for speakers since the iPad insert is pre-fader. Time for a setup session.

[Harpman]

Jerry,

That is true.  The X32 still isn't out of the picture, but I'd probably go with the 3U rackmount.  Just sold my Behringer X3200 32-channel analog board for $600.  Over 1/2 way there .  I'm probably going to hold out for a while and see what new technology emerges.  I know a few people using aux's as the main outs.  What major advantage do you have using the aux's versus mains?  In general, I've had no issues running the conventional method have had good success with recording off the DL for duo and trio formats.  I have had to normalize as well.  I bring the .wav into my DAW (Sonar X3 Producer) and just boost the gain on the channel strip.

[Harpman]

Gio,
Simple test to verify recording levels. You do need a good RMS meter and a stable signal source. I used a 1k sine wave simulating your Focusrite line level output to the Mackie mic/line in using the old analog standard of +4 dBu that's 1.23V rms for the input signal. Turn all faders to 0 and mute all non test channels. Also disable all EQ etc. on input and output. We just want the input signal unmodified. Bring the test signal on the channel to 0 on meter and you should have a output signal of -1.5 dB or so less than input. You could adjust channel fader to give you a 1.23 rms value on the L&R output to keep it simple like I did. You can now record using VoiceRecord pro and the VU meter should be around -2.3 VU. Record about a minute, stop and turn mute off on iPad channel and mute test channel  for playback. Play back recording using VoiceRecord pro and your rms meter will give you the same value that you recorded in my case 1.23V rms. MF meter should be the same as when you recorded. Based on this test I would say something is not correct in you gain structure causing the low output. Again you should be using the Focusrite preamps for all of your amplification and the Mackie around unity gain. Faders will function with the normal use, minor adjustments to levels. You can still use L&R for speakers since the iPad insert is pre-fader. Time for a setup session.

I always set my source desk to unity gain and leave the destination desk turned down.  Working with 2 desks with pre's adjusted on both introduces a lot of artifacts to the equation.  We should get together soon.  Been so busy with my IT business leaving no time to play .  Heading to Vegas next week for a convention. Maybe in the next few weeks, I can find some time to get together.

[WK154]

Got rid of the in-laws clearing my schedule just let me know when. The unity gain on the Focusrite is definitely a bad idea it combines all the Focusrite preamp noise at unity gain with the low level signal (Mic) and then you feed it to the Mackie for amplification. Definitely noisy. Unless your description is not what you do. It reads both desk turned down?

[Jerrylee]

Gio I thought you knew the advantages of the aux as mains options. You use the auxes to run your mains, then you can use the mains to create a separate recording mix. Yes it's only a stereo mix. The x32 can do this without having to do,the aux as mains. You can assign multiple different options to the USB recording. The dl is limited to,recording the mains.

Also with the X you can use it as a daw interface. I like to record with both. I can make a quick 2 channel recording with the front USB and also multi track using the back. And yes I am refering to the rack.