Unofficial Mackie User Forums > DL1608/DL806/DL32R/ProDX Mixers

Any special trick or settings for recording good, clean bass via mixer?

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JMc:
I've been making some really nice recordings at recent shows using the main mix for recording only and sending a paired set of Aux sends to FOH.  My bass player has been unhappy with the bass level in the mix.  Until recently, he was reluctant to run a line from his bass amp to the mixer, so his bass was picked up via the vocal mics, losing a lot of detail in the process.  At our last gig, we ran a line from his amp head directly into one of the channels on the mixer, but had a noise problem.  I'm fairly confident it was the cable he was using, because his bass amp shared the same circuit as the mixer and there was no noise emanating from his cabinet, so it seems as though the cable must have been the culprit.  He's had cable issues before, so that makes the most sense, at least. 

Here's my question:  I'm wanting to get some nice bass presence in the mix with good detail, but without it overpowering or dominating the entire mix.  Any suggested settings for gain with respect to the other instruments?  I thought about adding a touch of compression on the bass channel and using a bit of make-up gain to help it punch through a little better.  Any suggestions for recording a clean bass line would be greatly appreciated.  We play classic rock, BTW. so it's not like we're a jazz trio or something quite that cut and dried.  Thanks in advance.

sam.spoons:
To get a satisfactory recording you need to have everything either miked or DIed. For me the minimum would be, kick and overhead mics, bass DI, guitar amps miked, acoustics DI, Keys DI and vocal mics as required. Make sure backline sound levels are not too silly and set the recording levels using the best isolating headphones you have. Do a test recording at soundcheck and adjust the balance between vocals and backline if required (usually the vox are too loud on a live recording as the direct sound from the backline contributes to the live mix). It's a bit trial and error because you can only tell what the recording will sound like on playback.

The alternative is to run in mono (many SEs run a PA in mono for most gigs anyway but that's another discussion) and pan vox left and backline right so you can adjust the relative balance later.

JMc:
Hi Sam,

Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed reply, but all of the things you mentioned, I already know.  My question was specific to the bass signal.  I've got everything else dialed in very nicely, through trial and error.  The only thing I've done differently than what you've suggested is to go DI with the lead guitar as well, to create more consistent recordings from venue to venue.  If I mic the lead guitar at the amp, that's only good so long as my lead guitarist isn't fiddling with the levels of his amp.  Because then the level needs to be adjusted in the mix as well.  For example, we played an outdoor amphitheater gig and I set the recording levels accordingly and lucked out enough to have a good sounding mix.  The next weekend, we played indoors at a corporate Christmas party and in the recordings, the lead guitar was buried in the mix because he didn't need to crank his amp as loud because we were playing to a smaller room and he wound up getting buried by the rhythm guitar. 

As you know, playback of the recording in the field is a PIA and not possible without iTunes.  I simply don't have the time to record, playback, adjust, record again, playback to check, etc.  So for now, what I'm doing is sending the main L-R to my wireless in-ear monitor transmitter, and monitoring the recording mix during the show, making slight adjustments as needed from song to song. 

I've already gone the backline on one channel and lead vocal on another channel route, but found the resulting mono mix too unsatisfying.  I'd love to get into multi-track recording during our gigs eventually, but in the meantime, I'm limited to the constraints of two channel recordings through the mixer.  So for now,  I have all vocals dead center, bass dead center, snare and kick dead center, with some L-R panning for the drum tom mics.  I have the lead electric and acoustic guitars pushed to the left channel, the rhythm electric, acoustic guitar or keyboards to the right, and I've been very pleased with the result. 

So again, since I've not yet recorded a satisfactory bass signal via DI, I was wondering what the level of the bass should be, compared with the other instruments in the mix as a general rule of thumb.  Should it be as hot or hotter than the lead guitar, for instance?  Should I use the mixer's default EQ curve for an electric bass, or leave the EQ flat?  These are the kinds of questions I'm hoping to have answered.  Thanks again. 

BTW, this is something I can determine myself through trial and error, but I'm hoping to save some time because now that my bass player has heard how good the rest of us are sounding in the mix, he's having a conniption fit and I'm trying to get from point A to point B a little quicker, that's all.

sam.spoons:
Hi

As you say you need to alter the mix for different venues, BTW it is possible to record and playback from the iPad if you use a different recording app (I use Tascam PCMRecorder).

Regarding bass levels, I always set the balance by ear (and often vary the bass level slightly from tune to tune according to the style of the song) I don't think it's possible to suggest a specific level without being there, sorry :-(

Also, I'm never happy with the sound of DIed lead guitar, what do you use to DI it (Line 6 POD or similar or just a straight DI box)?

CyberHippy:
The unfortunate reality is that you will always be mixing to the room, which includes a bass amp that is most likely at or above the volume needed for the room. The only way you are likely to be able to get the bass to be at a good level in the mix would be to only have the bass through the mixer - that is, have him/her turn the volume of their amp to zero and give them enough bass in the monitor to get through the show.

Mixing live and mixing for a recording are very different creatures.

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