Author Topic: DL's little Helper  (Read 7327 times)

WK154

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DL's little Helper
« on: January 16, 2014, 10:42:41 PM »
With all the requests for this and that feature and a long list shortfalls to the DL I thought perhaps an external solution would supplement and alleviate some of the issues. The software fix is not one of them that's up to Mackie. Additional features may take another year from Mackie.  So lets look at a 1U box that could add some features to the DL and not cost a fortune. As a mater of fact the last 6 I picked up cost me $49.99 that's  $8.33 a piece and $29.99 of that was shipping. It will cost me another $8 a piece for a new fan (a knee jerk reaction to replace the Ball bearing fan whether it needs it or not). Now I don't expect you to get one for my price but over the past couple of years they have been available for $15-50. This is still well within most peoples range that have a DL. I'm talking about the XAP800 from ClearOne/Gentner.
 What kind of features will this add to the DL? Let start with setup. The DL has no signal generator to help with initial setup and sound check. For those of you that have a Pink noise generator of sorts that you can just plug in you probably paid around $80-90 for it. These however don't even come close to the features of this generator which has pink ,white, tone and scanning tone at a controlled rate with precision level output that can be put in a loop within a specific frequency range. Yes up to 12 of these not that you would need that many.  Enough about setup let move on to some better usage of the 12 inputs and outputs that this kit brings to the table.
 Input for those that need extra mic or line ins well you have them. That DL2408 you always wanted. You can create a group or two to feed to the DL such as the drum kit and control the drums with one input channel on the DL or more. Now you have some group capability. So you have a singer that's all over the place and you can't move the fader fast enough to keep them under control, let AGC handle that for you. That's Automatic Gain Control in case you forgot, it's not available on the DL. Let's understand that what I'm suggesting here by adding this unit that you treat it as a initial setup and forget it piece of gear. Yes it can be controlled like the DL from a PC but I like to keep things simple. The control remains with the DL/iPad control surface. Let's also put to rest that digital delay concern by adding another piece of gear. The DL from input to output has a 1500 usec delay adding another 150 usec (or 300 usec total for additional processing in the XAP800) won't affect anything. The mic inputs are individually controllable for both gain and phantom power (24V). Yes some condenser won't like that but you'd be surprised how many do run on 12-24V. One word of caution don't use the DL's phantom power since the outputs of the XAP800 won't take kindly to that. Tape it in off position to be safe.  Most of you use dynamics or wireless anyway so it's not really a concern. The first pass in the input channel allows up to 4 filters from a choice of all pass, high pass, low pass, notch and parametric.  A gate is available as is AGC and all this cost you 150 usec. If that's not enough then a second processing pass will add 15 more filters, a delay and a compressor for an additional 150 usec plus the delay time. Possible uses have certainly increased with this setup. Let's move on.
 The outputs for those clamoring for HPF, high shelving, low shelving, notch, Parametric instead of graphic eq's, crossovers for speakers ( Butterworth, Bessel, CD  Horn, Linkwitz-Riley) and delays for fills up to 500ft. they're all available. Split your DL's L&R's into 6 outputs 2 tops 2 subs and 2 fills. Surround sound anyone? By now you're probably over-controlled. For those that want to use IEM's the 50 ohm outputs are far more headphone/ear-bud friendly than the DL aux's. What running out of inputs and outputs just add another XAP800 for up to a total of eight. There is of course another direction that you can take called the X32 or other high end mixer but I doubt that's in your budget. For those looking for more than 2 channel recording your better off with a Focusrite 18i20 or something similar.
Let me list the cons while I'm at it. You need to drag around more gear. If you don't have a PC you might try your Mac's Windows emulator to see if the program runs on it (before spending any money). The only I/O it needs is a USB to serial cable (~$10) for setup. I don't have a Mac to try it on. Yes you can control it thru the front panel but it's painful. You need to add Phoenix connectors to your tool kit. You need to learn another mixer. I'm sure you can come up with more but for some of you this may be just the ticket.
I've been using these mixers for some 7 yrs. now and in various applications. I have a single unit that's a wireless mixer and mics and speakers on a 10 yr. old Tablet PC and it works just fine. I've yet to have a failure other than fans and look on that as PM. These mixers had an original MSRP of $5200. Some are only 3-4 yrs old.
For those who want more info see:
  http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=355.0
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 11:33:06 PM by WK154 »
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Jerrylee

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 01:37:20 AM »
Dude, are you bored? Again what's with the tmi? And what's with the nonsense?

WK154

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 02:03:50 AM »
Dude, are you bored? Again what's with the tmi? And what's with the nonsense?
As always words of wisdom from JL but your entitled to your opinion. I have to take a rest in between X32 tests. How's your Rack coming?
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Jerrylee

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2014, 02:14:12 AM »
Already pre ordered the rack. I'm picking it up in February. I'm in Canada. Ordered it to a guitar center in Florida. Not driving there till feb.

The dl is currently for sale on both Craigslist and kijiji. Soon to be on eBay. I need to time it to sell when I make my trip to Florida.

I'm also waiting for namm to decide if something better comes out. Very excited for namm this year.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 02:23:48 AM by Jerrylee »

WK154

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 03:01:32 AM »
NAMM should be interesting as more companies are joining the low end mixer game (QSC, Midas and the ever elusive Phonic are just some). Forty new products alone from Behringer should be interesting although quite a few will no doubt be market tests like the iX16 was. Delivery until he has his new factory up and running will still be a problem. Forty is more than some companies total product lines. The iX16 is under the drop cloth and looks a little boxier. Only 7 days to wait.
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Jerrylee

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2014, 03:57:18 AM »
I'm hoping the iX16 becomes a simple box. I do love the rack but, if it's just gonna stay on stage, with no real need for the controls, then I would prefer a simple box of I/Os.

However I can see a good need for the racks controls. I do like the idea of having it with scenes stored for all my band configurations. Then maybe only minor adjustment may be needed, if any, and I won't have to worry about the iPad app.

I will admit that I am curious what Mackie may come out with. It had better be an X competitor or they are done. Maybe it will be the DL404. Another step backwards. How many people other than me got a huge laugh out of the 806?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 04:02:06 AM by Jerrylee »

walterw

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 05:01:28 AM »
Maybe it will be the DL404.
dock your iphone into it, and it uses My Fader only!

Jerrylee

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2014, 05:41:11 AM »
Maybe it will be the DL404.
dock your iphone into it, and it uses My Fader only!

And of course it will still be the same exact size as the 1608 & the 806.

nottooloud

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2014, 07:21:27 PM »
I've yet to have a failure other than fans and look on that as PM.

I was pretty excited the last time you wrote about these. I bought 3. Replaced the fans. All 3 failed, in different ways, inside of 6 months. Alas.

WK154

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2014, 07:48:18 PM »
Sorry to hear about that. I have currently 6 in use and 14 total and other than replacing fans I've had 0 failures. Clearly YMMV. What use did you put these to?
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nottooloud

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 07:51:37 PM »
Sorry to hear about that. I have currently 6 in use and 14 total and other than replacing fans I've had 0 failures. Clearly YMMV. What use did you put these to?

System processor in a club. All three, one after the other. Now there's a Symetrix Jupiter doing the work. $1200 instead of $50, but I don't have to think about it any more.

WK154

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 12:49:04 AM »
Your experience seems a bit unusual and unless you purchased them from the same source and they were all previously stressed the same (usually heat) then it really makes no sense. Then I remembered my first replacement of a fan on their previous model called an AP800. It seemed unusual that the fan airflow direction was inward. I called the factory and spoke with an engineer (possible at that time) and he informed me that if I reverse this I will overheat the unit and get failures. It seemed counter intuitive at the time but I followed his advise. I noticed that you replaced the fans and it's quite easy to reverse the airflow direction. It's a detail that can cause a failure, just saying. It does explain random failures. The board quality is high and they didn't skimp on part quality.
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nottooloud

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 02:55:05 AM »
They were certainly heat stressed. None of the fans worked when I got them.

WK154

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Re: DL's little Helper
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 03:06:42 AM »
That will do it and in most cases they were probably replaced after they failed a few times doing their job. They tend to recover a bit but the damage is done. Definitely not a unit to put back into service. A warning to others do not buy units that have a fan failure return them or as I have done in the past negotiate with the seller to dump them to avoid shipping costs and get a refund.
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