DL1608 vs ?

[thedrums]

I've been using the DL for about a year now and like it very much but with the onslaught of new digital boards coming out I was wondering if anyone a has experience or opinions about these new digital consoles in the 16 to 24 channel range. What console do you think is the best? feature-wise, value, etc. Let 'er rip.

[WK154]

Today and I emphasize TODAY there is only 1 that qualifies and that's the X32 rack at $1150 or better. If however you are looking at a $799 for the DL there is a $$ gap to go along with the features gap. So you need to state your $$ target.

[thedrums]

Maybe my question was a little vague but I'm hoping to hear from people who have experience with digital boards other than the DL. I have a DL already just would  hear people compare other boards to the DL in the $1-3 thousand dollar area as in a working mans range. I'm not looking at a $10k console. for instance, the x32 Rack looks great on paper does anyone here have one? And the Allen and Heath qu16, anyone? I loved the MixWix. And what is the deal with the lack of insert points on digital consoles?

[Wynnd]

Studiolive 24.4.2 is in that range.  Been using 1 for my seniors show.  More analog like, but with the digital bells and whistles.  Not rack mountable and heavier are the reasons I never bought one.  There is the 16 channel model.  Way better if your recording.  For live shows I'm sticking with the DL.

[sam.spoons]

Maybe my question was a little vague but I'm hoping to hear from people who have experience with digital boards other than the DL. I have a DL already just would  hear people compare other boards to the DL in the $1-3 thousand dollar area as in a working mans range. I'm not looking at a $10k console. for instance, the x32 Rack looks great on paper does anyone here have one? And the Allen and Heath qu16, anyone? I loved the MixWix. And what is the deal with the lack of insert points on digital consoles?

The lack of physical inserts on low end digital desks is simple to explain, cost, and the fact that the desk has all the dynamics processing you could wish for makes them pretty much redundant in practice. Also a physical insert would have to be directly after the mic/line stage as everything after that is digital which limit's it's usefulness anyway.

[Jerrylee]

Again wk misquotes pricing.

Thedrums, I now have the x32 rack. At this point the MAP price is only $200 more than the DL. But the features it offers over the dl are extreme. For only a little more $ it's very hard for many people to buy the dl over the rack.

Here are just some of the features it has over the dl.

22 ins and 14 outs. Vs 16 in and 8 outs. Technically the x comes with 24 (USB on front)
USB on front for 2 track recording and playback. Also for updates.
USB out on back for up to 32in/32out audio interface. I have tried this with Auria and it worked awesome. I can now do virtual sound checks with just my iPad, as well as full 24 channel recording.
Studio quality interface
Computer control and iPad vs just iPad
Programable mic pre's. To me this alone is worth the price difference.
8 effects processors vs 2
Inputs assign ability. Any input can be assigned to multiple channels. Great for monitor mixing.
Multiple busses vs no buses.
Phantom on each channel vs global
Expandable to 40 i/o vs 16 only
An interface right on the mixer vs iPad only
Effects quality are exceptional
Future card options vs none
Personally I believe the x32 app layout is better. I fly through that thing. No swipes. Just taps to access things.
And many many more...

The only place the dl beats the x in my oppinion is in the size and weight category. Just under 8lbs vs just under 15. With the case the Mackie is about 10lbs and the rack plus my rack case hit about 25. And of course is $200 cheaper.

Any of the x32s are a HUGE step up from the dl. The x is becoming very rider friendly making it a "pro" mixer. It's in a different league. As I said many times, the dl1608 is a great mixer. It serves a purpose. If it does everything you need a mixer to do then stick with it. But if you didn't have one already I would steer you in the racks dirrection. Or even the x18 when it's released.

Here is a big question for you. Have you ever been mixing with something and said to yourself "I wish I could do ____ with this mixer"? I personally have with the dl and that's why I need to move on. For me my big one was that I wish I could just get away from the mixer and set gains remotely. Even as a working mans board there are times we just want and need ours to do just a little more. I was tempted to go for the x32 producer because there are times when I just want to grab a fader. But my desire to keep it compact and light is why I didn't.

[sam.spoons]

Over this side of the pond (at Thomann) the DL is £936, the X32 Rack is £1186, exactly £250 or 26.7% more expensive  Definitely worth the money if you can use the extra features but not a no-brainer by any means. Now, if I could control the X32 control app with a BCF2000 attached to a wi-fi connected iPad I would have to seriously consider upgrading (though I'd probably keep the DL as a backup desk).

[Wynnd]

This is so much easier to answer on a computer.  (Was using an ipad before.)  Anyway, the auditorium that my Senior's show is in had a StudioLive 24.4.2 installed 2 years ago.  (EAW speakers, crown amps.  Nice system.)  Anyway, I had a week to learn it before the first show.  They work fine.  Isn't too hard to learn and is only slightly less convenient to make deep changes with than an analog board.  Digital has a lot of bells and whistles, but they are usually buried in ways they never are on an analog board.  That said, I'm planning on using the DL for the show this year.  It might be a problem, because, the show has 15 wireless mics that need to be shared among the performers and I only want mics on when the performer is own stage.  This might be a problem with the DL, it's not a problem for access to the 24 faders of the Studiolive.  The reason for considering the change, is the ipad and remote mixing.  The sound booth in this auditorium is partially sound masked.  I want to hear what the audience hears and with the ipad, I can do that.  Yes, I could do it with the studiolive if I connect a computer up to it.  If it were mine, I would do that immediately, but being that it belongs to someone else, connecting a computer probably will require updating the firmware to the computer and if it's different from someone else's computer, there will be a firmware fight and someone will probably end up losing their scenes.  (Saved configurations.)  This place has a lot of users who aren't really sound guys.  If you shut down the amps, they can't figure out why the system doesn't work.  (They put in a shutdown controller as a single switch for the entire system.  You do have to know where it is.)   Anyway, it's one more reason for me not to want to use their mixer.  (The show does have its own scene.)   If the DL works well in this use, I doubt that I'll need anything else before retiring from this.

[WK154]

The prices I quoted for the uninitiated were retail prices delivered to my door YMMV. Everyone that has read anything on this forum knows that MAP is $1199 (X32)  and $999 (DL1608). If you take anything away from this forum it's that you don't pay MAP$.

[WK154]

Maybe my question was a little vague but I'm hoping to hear from people who have experience with digital boards other than the DL. I have a DL already just would  hear people compare other boards to the DL in the $1-3 thousand dollar area as in a working mans range. I'm not looking at a $10k console. for instance, the x32 Rack looks great on paper does anyone here have one? And the Allen and Heath qu16, anyone? I loved the MixWix. And what is the deal with the lack of insert points on digital consoles?

Let me give you a piece of advise and it's not meant to tell you to get lost. Since you already know what the DL can do in your specific use (something we don't even know here) then go on the forums that deal with that particular mixer. You will learn far more about that product than you'll ever learn here. Since you know what you are looking for you'll be much better served there then trying to figure out what someones understanding of the DL is and comparing it to their understanding of another mixer. Usage is key to this and can vary all over the place even here. Even then you still have to wade thru all the BS. Your price range of 1 to almost 4 times the price of the DL makes no sense. 

[Jerrylee]

The prices I quoted for the uninitiated were retail prices delivered to my door YMMV. Everyone that has read anything on this forum knows that MAP is $1199 (X32)  and $999 (DL1608). If you take anything away from this forum it's that you don't pay MAP$.

So you just arbitrarily decide what the price is? You took $200 off the price off the dl1608 and only $50 off the x32 rack. This is the exact crap I have been talking about.

[sam.spoons]

The best US prices I can find for the X32 Rack and DL1608 are $1199 and $909 (Sweetwater and Musicians Friend respectively) but it's difficult to search fro US prices from the UK. theta's still a big enough up charge to make it a considered choice rather than a no-brainer IMHO.

[robbocurry]

Maybe my question was a little vague but I'm hoping to hear from people who have experience with digital boards other than the DL. I have a DL already just would  hear people compare other boards to the DL in the $1-3 thousand dollar area as in a working mans range. I'm not looking at a $10k console. for instance, the x32 Rack looks great on paper does anyone here have one? And the Allen and Heath qu16, anyone? I loved the MixWix. And what is the deal with the lack of insert points on digital consoles?

If I was going to be mixing 24 channels with unknown acts, I'd probably go for something with real faders.
If I was working with the same band needing 24 channels, maybe something with virtual faders would be ok.
I loved the MixWiz and the QU16 is awesome - it plus the DL would cover 24+ channels - this would be ideal for me.
The new Presonus SL series are def worth a look too, I had a 16.4.2 and a 16.0.2 and both were great.

 

[WK154]

The best US prices I can find for the X32 Rack and DL1608 are $1199 and $909 (Sweetwater and Musicians Friend respectively) but it's difficult to search fro US prices from the UK. theta's still a big enough up charge to make it a considered choice rather than a no-brainer IMHO.

Somebody on here thinks I'm a retailer making up prices. 
Mackie 1608 : http://www.ccisolutions.com/StoreFront/category/mackie-dl-series
Sweetwater quoted me $1150 delivered for the X32 rack.

[Jerrylee]

Cci is clearing out their stock. They are not a big dealer, by far. This is a clearance price. Or were you to lazy to notice that?

$959.20 was my final price on the rack. Does that mean that this is the new price for the rack?