First Gig with DL1608 - Pointers Anyone?

[Sanchinguy]

Hiya,

New here.  My band is going to be playing a gig next weekend at a place we've never been before and it'll be our first gig with the 1608.  I'm the bass player, and following the unwritten law, also own the PA and run sound.

My system is really basic - JBL PRX subs and tops, passive monitors powered by by a crown 1500 fed by an ART HQ231 (that I use to find/cut feedback).  I also have a Lexicon mx200 that I can use.

The band is 5 pieces - 2 electric guitars, 1 acoustic guitar (to a DI to the board), bass, drums, female lead vocal, 4 male vocals, keys.  We won't get to sound check the system until the day of the gig.  I've tried to load the obvious presets, and set some basic reverb (short plate) and delay on the vocals, and tweaked the preset EQs a bit based on my experience with the group.

The bar/restaurant is fairly small, no dance floor, and is carpeted.  The stage is very small (~9x11) and is surrounded by a 2' high solid wall.  The owner has mentioned that they don't want us to be "too loud".  Due to space limits and volume restraints, I'm planning on leaving the subs home.  My bass rig and drummers kick will be plenty loud.

I'm wondering if any of my more experienced brethren here have any pointers or tips I can use to get closer to an acceptable mix in the time we'll have.

Many thanks,

Sanchinguy

[Wynnd]

First time out with anything, take a back up.  (In this case a mixer.)  You probably won't need it, but it's a good habit, especially with new equipment that you haven't had time to really run through the ringer.  My personal suggestion is to get the DL's 31 band EQ set to flatten the speaker response on the FOH and also the appropriate Aux EQ on the monitors.  If there's a peak at 500 htz, cut that frequency back.  You can't do this well at the restaurant, but you can do it at home using pink noise and an RTA. (Do the FOH separate from the monitors.)   Systems that are set very flat allow the mics to be started at all flat while minimizing feedback. Channel EQ is the wrong place to control feedback.  It is the right place to slightly modify the sound characteristics.  (Little goes a long way.)  Monitors should be prefader and possibly post esp.  (The DL has both options.) 

[Wynnd]

Also, HPF all vocal mics.  I use 100 htz, but 75 htz works too.  (Exception is if you have a bass singer.)  Piano/synth should be flat.  Organ on a separate channel should be LPF at 5000 htz.  (Organ only.  If you have organ and piano/synth sounds on the same channel, go with the piano set up.)  Compression is a personal thing.  Like anything new, use it carefully.)

[Wynnd]

I really can't think of anything that doesn't apply to any good mixer.  If any in the band also have an ios device, make sure they have Master fader or My fader installed at least as a backup.  They all have to be the same versions because a version change will push out a firmware update.  You don't want that to happen at a show.  And you will want time to test any changes.  And play with new features.

[Sanchinguy]

Thanks!  This is exactly what I was looking for.

The analog mixer (1642VLZ3) will be in the van.  I already set the hpf on the vocals to ~100hz but hadn't thought about My Fader on my iPhone - great point!  I'll be using pink noise/RTA to sort out the response curve today.

Any tips on initial gain settings? Or on how to get my band mates to actually sing/play during sound check the way they do when performing?

[WK154]

One small correction on RTA room acoustics. You can practice at home but don't expect it to be even close at the restaurant. You will need to do room eq on site before customers are there if possible. Set up all mics and have them on, then do room eq.

[robbocurry]

Don't forget to check which screen you're on before adjusting faders - if you can, try to get into the habit of returning to the LR page once you adjusted your auxes
It may take a few gigs to get comfy but it's worth the effort.
Using a new mixer out live is always a bit nerve wracking so stay calm & keep mixing

[Wynnd]

RTA at the restaurant is the best way, but pink noise with customers is a bad option.  The reason I do the RTA at home, is to bring the system closer to flat than they are without it.  I'm running a driverack PX on my powered speakers so if the band is loud, I will run the anti-feedback at the club before a gig.  That takes out the worst offending frequencies.  Having a flat system before arriving is a great starting point, but unless you have separate 31 band EQ, any significant changes at the club to the 31 band EQ will throw the system out for anywhere else.  Can I suggest, get the system flat at home using the 31 band EQ and save that.  (So you can quickly recover it.)  Then at the club, use only the 4 band EQ to tailor the system to the restaurant.  (Gently please.)  Note that when I setup my system at home, the speakers are placed at the mouth of the garage facing outwards and the reference mic is on a stand about 15 feet down the driveway.  It's my answer to not having a room that swallows all sound.  It minimizes reflective surfaces and improves the RTA results.  (Better experience on a warm day.)  If you have different speakers that you use for different types of gigs, you can go through all of them on the same day.  Remember to do the monitors the same way you will be using them.  On the floor aimed at the reference mic at the same location as you would have your face.  There are amazing differences in the same speakers used at different locations.  (I have monitors that I've occasionally used as mains.  And my ZXA1 EVs get used as monitors from time to time.)   I did my ZXA1s with matching subs this way and setup for bi-amp with the subs getting a separate feed, and mono subs with stereo satellites and I did one other way was just a stereo feed to each stack feeding the sub and satellite on each side.  (Using my DriveRack PX.)  I use all of them for different situations, but they sound exactly the same.  (even though the EQs are somewhat different.)   Anyway, the point is to fill your toolbox with tools that you can make use of down the road.  Have a great gig.  I've really enjoyed my DL and will be looking at whether to use it or the StudioLive 24.4.2 that's at my senior's variety show I do every spring. (In May.)  The show's requirements might make using the virtual sliders too slow.  Won't know until we start doing full rehearsals.  (The fact that you need to scroll left and right to get to all the channels might be a problem too.)

[Sanchinguy]

Thanks for the deeper dive on this.  My RTA tools are limited to a couple iOS apps (FrequenSee and Octave) and it's about 15 degrees outside right now.  I set things up in my finished basement and used pink noise from AudioTools into a channel on the DL and switched back and forth between the mains EQ and Octave to get things closer to flat I still have a slight hump around 250 hz and another smaller bump around 4k that wouldn't really go away, but it's better.

My  v3 wishes now include:
Pink/white noise generator
RTA in the background of the 31 band EQs
Basic IPad music controls (track up and down, play, pause) on the main window
A basic faders-only view that would show all channels and the mains and aux's - there's room

There's a chance I'll be able to repeat this in the room - the place gets pretty dead in the mid afternoons - but I'll have to watch carefully.

Thanks again!  I'll post an update after the gig.

[WK154]

I created a monster here with some simple suggestions. First I did say that no customers is the best choice but pink noise is not the only way to remove standing room wave, reflections and IM product mic feedback. The goal here is not a flat response curve but to identify and reduce frequencies that will cause feedback using the output parametric's and graphic eq's.  You'll find few if any house eq's flat. Use your ears for that. After looking at your description and requirements of your gig and the equipment you have I would venture a guess that your biggest problem would be the sound level. A five piece band in a small restaurant with the owner already concerned with loudness I would check the closest tables and keep the level below 85 dBSpl. Since you have AudioTools have someone give you a reading at the table as a reference for performance. Be sure to ask the owner about levels and I would err on the side of lower loudness. I also wouldn't worry too much about feedback in this case, carpet, bodies and probably drapes. Use the FFT before you start to identify any house issues HVAC etc. 1/24 octave 1 sec. decay, rest default and enable peak value on log display. Also far more useful than RTA unless your setting up a 1/3 oct. graphic eq.

[Jerrylee]

Why I the world are you worried about using an rta at a small low volume gig? That's the least of your concerns. Here is what you need to worry about. Turn down the amps, find the drummer some brushes, and try not to suck. The owner said he doesn't want it loud so that's the first thing to concentrate on. Then just worry about making everyone else there happy. That's how you get more gigs.

[JMc]

Best advice I can give you is kill the compression on all your vocal channels.  With it engaged, your levels will be too low and when you use the makeup gain to bring them back up, you're going to be in feedback hell. 

[Wynnd]

Got to disagree with you a bit on this.  Like most effects, they need to be used carefully.  I started using compression because of politicians and preachers.  Preachers are the worst.  They'll whisper and shout in the same sentence.  I used compression to keep them from frying the audience's ears while raising the floor.  Now for bands, I'd be unlikely to raise the floor, but I would use compression to start before the limiters kick in to soften the approach of the system's limitations.  (I tend to run my system very close to the edge.)   Better approach is to drop the volume down and don't get anywhere near needing compression or limiters.  (My personal choice.)

[JMc]

You can disagree, but I'm just going by my own personal experience and that of another forum member who was having feedback problems at a gig until I said "kill the compression on the vocals" and the problem was solved, instantly.  Of course, the ambient acoustics, the kind of music volume you want to play at,  will play a role, too.   Your mileage may vary. 

[Wynnd]

Everyone's mileage varies!  You've got to be cautious when running near the feedback edge.  For some bands this is the only thing that keeps them from being louder!  Good points as always.