Author Topic: Too Wimpy Looking?  (Read 4885 times)

RoadRanger

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Too Wimpy Looking?
« on: October 18, 2014, 04:05:03 AM »
I actually had a hard rock band complaining about me not having a snake and a console at FOH :shock: . Oh, and also that my little RCF 310A's over Danley TH-Mini's rig couldn't possibly be loud enough for them. The only time I've opened that rig up indoors I was measuring 115dbc at 20 feet :shock: . I'd not normally subject folks to that but it was the last gig a singer was doing with a band that had a SUPER LOUD drummer and he paid me out of his own pocket so he could be heard over the band for once  :mrgreen: .

Anyways I'm curious if anyone else has had a similar reaction to them downsizing to a DL1608?

Wynnd

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2014, 05:29:19 AM »
Most of the people I run into think it's really expensive.  An employee at the Chamber of Commerce where I did a panel discussion for the League of Women Voters, thought my system of the DL1608 (In a rack) with ZXA1s, 8 wired mics and a wireless must have cost $50K.  I laughed.  I own total about $12K of equipment between my keyboards, PAs and Bass equipment.  What I was using was bout $3500 worth brand new.  Maybe he was thinking about getting into the PA game.  Don't know.  It is much less impressive looking than a MixWiz.  All those knobs on the MixWiz make people think there's no way anyone could understand what's happening.  I don't miss my MixWiz and it's found a new home with an Outlaw Country band in Colorado Springs.  (Good band too.)  I try not to worry about when a musician decides my equipment couldn't possibly be up to their needs.  They're probably too loud and probably too stupid to see the advantages of backing off a bit.  (Or a lot in some cases.)  I don't need their headaches and if they want to be that loud, they can purchase their own $20K system and hopefully find someone who can run it competently.

sam.spoons

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2014, 08:08:09 AM »
No, not so far, the usual reaction is along the lines of "isn't modern tech wonderful"  :)
Never had anybody complain they it wasn't loud enough either.

ijpengelly

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2014, 09:38:55 AM »
I had the Mackie Onyx 24.4 before this, which was not a small mixer at all, two snakes and a 6U box (compressors, effects, feedback destroyers). People would occasionally comment on it all. When I got the DL1608, and it was when it first came out, I got loads more people commenting and being surprised that I was mixing the sound from an iPad. At one gig a woman was about to comment on how rude and ignorant I was being for playing games on it when I was at a party... thankfully I had been chatting to her husband earlier and he chose that time to lean over and tell her what I was doing LOL

With bands and those who are into music, the most often question I get is "what app are you running".

Last night was the first time I have come across someone with one of the alternatives, the A&H Qu-16.

gerenm63

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2014, 10:03:45 AM »
I had the Mackie Onyx 24.4 before this, which was not a small mixer at all, two snakes and a 6U box (compressors, effects, feedback destroyers). People would occasionally comment on it all. When I got the DL1608, and it was when it first came out, I got loads more people commenting and being surprised that I was mixing the sound from an iPad. At one gig a woman was about to comment on how rude and ignorant I was being for playing games on it when I was at a party... thankfully I had been chatting to her husband earlier and he chose that time to lean over and tell her what I was doing LOL

With bands and those who are into music, the most often question I get is "what app are you running".

Last night was the first time I have come across someone with one of the alternatives, the A&H Qu-16.

I had a woman last night who thought I was using my iPad Mini to take pictures or video, until she saw the screen. She was thoroughly impressed.
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Keyboard Magic

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2014, 01:41:40 PM »
Anyways I'm curious if anyone else has had a similar reaction to them downsizing to a DL1608?

I've had similar experiences at school venues, but most are blown away with the tech and the cool factor. Especially when I'm walking the venue with the iPad. I get the strange looks, I show them the iPad and Master Fader running, then it's "wow". For me and everyone here, I suppose we take it as a natural thing to use and do, but most people are impressed with our knowledge and skills with the tech. That's what I get from it.
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Fluddman

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 10:13:44 PM »
I've never had complaints about the lack of rack gear and snake. But I do get a few comment about how small my FOH is (PRX612 over PRX618xlf) until they hear it in action.

Iv'e had some really funny feedback from rock bands - the best being "we've never really been able to hear the vocals before and its the first time we've noticed that our singer isn't very good".

CHeers

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 10:22:47 PM »
[...] I do get a few comment about how small my FOH is (PRX612 over PRX618xlf) until they hear it in action.
Yah, my rig is about the same output above 50 Hz, the XLF's go lower.
Quote
Iv'e had some really funny feedback from rock bands - the best being "we've never really been able to hear the vocals before and its the first time we've noticed that our singer isn't very good".
LOL! What do you run for monitors?

Fluddman

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 01:25:05 AM »
[...] I do get a few comment about how small my FOH is (PRX612 over PRX618xlf) until they hear it in action.
Yah, my rig is about the same output above 50 Hz, the XLF's go lower.
Quote
Iv'e had some really funny feedback from rock bands - the best being "we've never really been able to hear the vocals before and its the first time we've noticed that our singer isn't very good".
LOL! What do you run for monitors?

I run four channels of monitors using a pair of Yamaha P7000s amps into four Quest http://www.questaudio.com.au/qmotion/qm12mp/QM12MP speakers (these are Australian made similar to SRX712m). I try and give the lead sing a pair if possible. They work well but are bloody heavy! (I wish I had your monitor setup).

Cheers

RoadRanger

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 06:07:44 AM »
I do love my monitors :) .

iBloke

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 06:28:52 AM »
Too wimpy?

Not to me, or any other savvy Muso who is even slightly clued up about modern PA gear.

I was over looked for a gig last week by a drummer who owns a reasonable little PA.
He is recovering from pneumonia, and didnt feel up to all the work involved in setting up his gear.
He also asked me how many channels my mixer has. I told him 16, to which he replied his band needs 18, and his mixer is some prehistoric 32 channel Yamaha thing.

I asked him what the stage layout was and he told me he "needs" 9 channels for his drum kit alone.
9 fuggin channels! In a room that holds 150 people max.

I tried to explain to him that having worked that small room several times before it's never been necessary to have more than a mic in the kick drum, and a cuppla overhead mics for everything else. Simply because snare, toms, and symbols are already WAY loud enough without mics.

But no, he is obviously some kind of rock god who believes so much in his own self importance that he simply must have concert hall drum mic'ing.

So getting back to the, "too wimpy looking" topic it is obvious there will be blindly stupid, and ignorant musos who in reality have less than zero understanding of what audio production is required.

I'm old and semi retired and don't need to take every gig that comes my way, which means I can pick and choose who to work for.
The clued up veteran Musos who are in touch with modern sound reinforcement save themselves sooo much $$ using small, lightweight, and extremely efficient live sound gear, such as mine.

The Neanderthals will never "get it" and can't look past gigantic concert W's, 45/60's, and ear smashing JBL horns.  ::)

ijpengelly

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 12:24:30 PM »
In smaller venues I'll mic a whole kit and forgo overheads on the basis that they are typically loud enough without mic'ing or can be picked up by the tom and snare mics. I like a kit to have a good fulsome sound, especially with loud guitarists :-)

This weekend I did three gigs (three bands, my main band and four bands) in a social club and two different pubs respectively. In all the venues people were loving the iPad mixer. There were a couple of occasions where a 32 channel version would have been beneficial. The last gig was in a live music pub, where they like it loud and they love their rock. Thankfully, the rig I have delivers despite looking relatively compact (EV SBa 760 subs - 2 off and RCF 312A tops - 2 off).

Wynnd

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2014, 02:35:27 PM »
Should have just asked him how many he needed and to list them.  Then plug the drums into a snake and only connect the mics you actually need.  9 mics for drums is only important in high feedback situations and in a room that small, it's just stupid.  I actually ran out of channels last Saturday, but I was using two of them for playing audio recordings.  Something I could have moved to the docked ipad.  (Which was busy with mixing a theater show.  Lots of mic changes, mutes and adjustments.)  I didn't need any more channels, but running out does make one worry.  If I really needed additional channels, I have no problem adding my Alesis Multi-Mix 16 for 8 full mic channels and 4 stereo channels.  (Love how companies add up channels) 

RoadRanger

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2014, 03:28:27 PM »
You can always "Y" together a couple tom mics to "gain" a channel. I've also "Y"ed together vocal mics if needed. As long as the mics are identical this works fine. I think I had 7 inputs into my 4 channel mixer on a float last spring LOL.

gerenm63

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Re: Too Wimpy Looking?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2014, 04:00:52 PM »
I actually ran out of channels last Saturday, but I was using two of them for playing audio recordings.

What I did when running my analog board to help with this: I made up a special cable that has a passive mixer in the 1/4" plug at the mixer end. In my case, it's a stereo 1/8" to a mono 1/4" phone plug. The left and right lines from the stereo cable each have a 3.3K 1/8 watt resistor in line, which in turn are wired to the tip. Ground remains ground, so it's sleeve to sleeve. Works great, reduces weird stereo phase issues when summing the stereo channels, and saves a channel on the board.

I've been doing live sound for 35 years now in small- and medium-sized clubs and medium-sized outdoor venues, and I only owned a board bigger than 16 channels for a few years. I've almost always been able to get the job done in 16. If I do need something bigger, I usually rent an X32 from a "friendly competitor."

He and I did do an annual festival gig where we had two stages facing the same space, and we mixed that on a 32 channel board, splitting channels between the two stages. That was a trick. We did that gig on his Allen & Heath GL3000.
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