Author Topic: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...  (Read 3096 times)

WJF

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Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« on: October 31, 2014, 08:17:36 PM »
Hi -

Hoping someone here can take pity on a clueless soul and answer a question that I feel like I should know the answer to ... specifically ...

I want to run some light compression on my FOH mix but do not want any compression in my floor monitor mixes being sent on Aux 1 and Aux 2 . To accomplish this do I set Aux 1&2 to "Pre-DSP" or "Pre-Fader"?  And for my continuing education what is the differ3ence between the two modes?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer ... it is greatly appreciated!!

Topsøe

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 10:20:55 PM »
Pre dsp will give you monitors with no eq and no comp/gate and pre farder will give you monitors with eq and comp/gate , if you want eq but not comp use the master comp on l/r  and no comp (or very light comp) on the channels.
Post fader is used for FX sends to keep the ratio wet/clean when you change level
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 10:25:56 PM by Topsøe »
If in doubt ask

robbocurry

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2014, 10:06:08 AM »
Pre dsp will give you monitors with no eq and no comp/gate and pre farder will give you monitors with eq and comp/gate , if you want eq but not comp use the master comp on l/r  and no comp (or very light comp) on the channels.
Post fader is used for FX sends to keep the ratio wet/clean when you change level
Yup, what he said!
You know how to access the comp on the LR okay?
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WJF

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2014, 02:07:19 PM »
Thanks guys! I REALLY appreciate the responses and explanation. I think pre-Fader will be the way to go ... don't want to sacrifice individual EQ in the monitor mixes. Suddenly I feel like I almost know what I'm doing now. Thanks again so much!!

stevegarris

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2014, 10:25:36 PM »
Not a dumb question at all, in fact a very good one!

There are 2 trains of thought here, and I think you would find most are evenly split on this.

I've used mine with each channel set to pre fader, so any EQing and compression will be heard in the monitor. Others will say that compression interferes with the monitor, and using too much will cause monitor feedback.

I use compression very gently with the DL. Typically no more than 4:1 on vocals, and 5:1 on bass guitar. Threshold set to only a few db reduction. I also add a fair amount of gain on the comp output, which really helps putting vocals out front. On vocals, I start at 2:1, and move up as needed to reduce the dynamic range accordingly.

It is also true that vocal compression may not be desirable in monitors. But to me, it is very important to have channel EQ in the monitor mix.

YMMV

RoadRanger

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2014, 01:33:03 AM »
I really want my monitor sends post HPF, EQ and gate but pre-comp. I'm pretty sure i could do that on an "X" - I hope Mackie gets that out soon. I really have no real need for groups and DCA's on a 16 channel mixer so not sure what (if any) new features in V3 I'll care about :( .

sam.spoons

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2014, 09:42:03 AM »
The X32 channel signal path goes [Head amp - Trim - HPF - * - Gate - * ^ - PEQ - * - Compressor - * ^ - Fader - *] with aux taps = * and inserts = ^ The other difference, I think, is that Mackie place the compressor before the PEQ making post eq but pre comp impossible.

Artaudio

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Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2014, 11:39:17 AM »
There is another option providing you have a few channels left. You can use a "Y" cable on the Mics you want to split and send your signals to two channels. One channel will be for your front of house and the second will be for your monitor signal. Just make sure the sends are set to prefader and don't send any of the second channels signal to the FOH. This way you can tweak your channel strip EQs for both your FOH and the Monitor channels to your hearts content without affecting output on the opposite channels. We did this a lot in the olden days with analog consoles and it works great and I still do this today with my newer digital consoles which have digital patch bays (it would be a nice thing to have on the DL's), providing I have enough channels. Usually I only do the vocals this way.  Hope this helps. 

P.S. Oh, I forgot to add.... Make sure you don't touch your sends to your monitors on the channel that is going to the FOH.  That was the whole reason you were trying to avoid in the first place.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 11:52:01 AM by Artaudio »

RoadRanger

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2014, 02:39:09 PM »
^ Yah, I'm already needin' 17 channels so double patching isn't an option. Another nice thing about the X Rack is you can double patch all 16 inputs and have totally different EQ and dynamics on your virtual "monitor console" - but not as needed as on the Mackie since the X has the "right" tap points, even per channel!

Topsøe

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2014, 02:46:27 PM »
You say the X has the right patchpoint , maybe but it has the compressor after the eq so it nulls the effect of the eq when you compres the signal :-(
If in doubt ask

Keyboard Magic

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2014, 02:52:47 PM »
I really want my monitor sends post HPF, EQ and gate but pre-comp. I'm pretty sure i could do that on an "X" - I hope Mackie gets that out soon. I really have no real need for groups and DCA's on a 16 channel mixer so not sure what (if any) new features in V3 I'll care about :( .

Me too. Maybe the refreshed GUI and digital trim will be an added bonus? And the firmware update will make a difference?  :-\
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RoadRanger

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2014, 03:01:44 PM »
You say the X has the right patchpoint , maybe but it has the compressor after the eq so it nulls the effect of the eq when you compres the signal :-(
My Phonic digital mixer lets you specify the order of the processing - yah, we should have that too! Separate pre and post comp EQ would be even better - and separate EQ for the monitor sends (as a group) while we're at it ;) . Oh, and we REALLY need a frequency knob on the gate keys !!!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 03:06:39 PM by RoadRanger »

pytchley

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Re: Really Dumb, Newbie Question - Apologies in advance ...
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2014, 04:47:28 PM »
Another way (for us sad cases with white noise) to have 16 channels and break music is to put something not too critical (Tom6, lead Guitar etc.) on channel 16, pull out the xlr just before the end of the set, switch EQ off if needs be and plug in mono ipod. Only takes a second.