A Sign of Things To Come?

[ToH2002]

Hope not this dumbed down Kindergarten mixer will never make it for serious work. I don't get it, they have a perfectly good platform to build on and now this?

Well, essentially, this is the mixing section of a FreePlay or a REACH respectively. May actually come in handy for small setups (simply connect an MP3 player and a microphone to my PA for a garden party without setting up the full-fledged DL 1608 with Wifi AP). But definitely will never compete with the DL series - different application scenario.

Horses for courses, I guess. They built the technology for FreePlay and REACH, now testing if there's a market for it without the P.A.. We'll see if people adopt it. I might actually get the smaller version for the typical "canned music & microphone" setting (sports events in my case) where my FreePlay is a bit too weak and I need to carry a more powerful active speaker. These mini-mixers with their click-and-turn interface will be simple enough to operate for most people at these events, where master fader is a bit too complex.

Cheers,

Torsten

 

[WK154]

Well finally a price for the 4 input $199 and the 8 input $299 from the NAMM demo. Did Berry drop the price of the XR12 to $249 for this? The Mackie Website still has $259 and $389 for them respectively. So which is it Mackie? Also after reading closer and inferring there is only one method of wireless communication, Bluetooth. Unfortunately  a level III unit intended for Jawbone level use (30 ft.). For those unfamiliar with Bluetooth levels a III is 1 Meter, II is 10 Meters and I is 100 Meters. The least that they should have used is level II. For a higher quality sound capability they might have included Apt-X and certainly more than one receiver (speakers).

[gerenm63]

Well finally a price for the 4 input $199 and the 8 input $299 from the NAMM demo. Did Berry drop the price of the XR12 to $249 for this? The Mackie Website still has $259 and $389 for them respectively. So which is it Mackie? Also after reading closer and inferring there is only one method of wireless communication, Bluetooth. Unfortunately  a level III unit intended for Jawbone level use (30 ft.). For those unfamiliar with Bluetooth levels a III is 10 Meters, II is 30 Meters and I is 100 Meters. The least that they should have used is level II. For a higher quality sound capability they might have included Apt-X and certainly more than one receiver (speakers).

The prices have been on the B&H site for several days now. Not sure why this was a mystery. I quoted them here on the forum several days ago, I believe. As far as pricing on the Mackie web site, I can't find it anywhere. That said, there are often differences between the price a manufacture lists, and the actual "street" price.

Again, I think you're missing the point of these units -- the solo/duo/maybe trio, mixing from the stage. I do agree that the choice to use Bluetooth 3 was a mistake, but not because of range. Bluetooth 4 has been available for development for close to two years now, and BT 4 hardware has been available for over a year. Bluetooth 4.2 would have easily allowed for multiple simultaneous connections for control and bi-direction audio at high quality levels. As a bonus, BT 4 also would have allowed a range of 100-150 feet.

Multiple audio paths via Bluetooth, frankly, would be fantastic if it were reliable. I'd love to be able to eliminate all those pesky speaker cables from the stage (of course, there would still have to be power cables run out to each speaker, so that may be a moot point).

[WK154]

I think Mackie missed the point not me. If they are targeting the Solo, Duo, Trio stage act they forgot the external foot-switch control. For those wanting to have someone walk about with their phones to control the mixer from the audience the 30 ft. range misses the mark. Distance has little to do with version #. I discussed the Bluetooth marketing scam elsewhere in this forum and won't repeat it here. I've been using BT since V1.2 and also others with success including multiple units. The limited amount of control from the "Pro" surface makes it questionable. You get far more control with more phone choices with a lower priced XR12 than the ProDX-8. FYI here is Mackie's pricing and I didn't imply it was a mystery.  Since it's not on the street we don't have a street price.
 http://mackie.com/live/mackie-introduces-prodx-wireless-digital-mixers
Nice Synth the Roland especially for the price.
Cheers

[WK154]

If you want to see someone that hit the mark for Solo, Duo, Trio or composers look at this.
http://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/k-mix/
If I where in that category the K-mix would be worth it.

[gerenm63]

I think Mackie missed the point not me. If they are targeting the Solo, Duo, Trio stage act they forgot the external foot-switch control. For those wanting to have someone walk about with their phones to control the mixer from the audience the 30 ft. range misses the mark. Distance has little to do with version #. I discussed the Bluetooth marketing scam elsewhere in this forum and won't repeat it here. I've been using BT since V1.2 and also others with success including multiple units. The limited amount of control from the "Pro" surface makes it questionable. You get far more control with more phone choices with a lower priced XR12 than the ProDX-8. FYI here is Mackie's pricing and I didn't imply it was a mystery.  Since it's not on the street we don't have a street price.
 http://mackie.com/live/mackie-introduces-prodx-wireless-digital-mixers
Nice Synth the Roland especially for the price.
Cheers

This is not for someone who's going to have someone walk the crowd and mix from an iPhone. This is for mixing from the stage, with the iPhone either in the cradle of the unit, or on a mic stand clip, probably within 10 feet of the base unit. But, probably better that we agree to disagree on who's missing the point. This could go on forever, to no one's benefit...   

Regards to Bluetooth, I'm involved with applications that use BT for remote control operations in other areas with great reliability over distances of 100' or more. This was not possible before BT 4.0, and more specifically, BT 4.2. It's really quite impressive how much can now be done using BT for point-to-point ad-hoc control applications.

I missed this pricing from Mackie. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. As I suspected, this is "list" pricing. Street pricing will be lower. The $199.99 and $299.99 street pricing is posted on the B&H and Musicians' Friend web sites, and I have confirmed this pricing with B&H staff. The price will be $199.99 for the ProDX4, and $299.99 for the ProDX8.

Since there are no direct equivalents in the Behringer line, price comparisons are completely irrelevant, though the models that are somewhat close are actually more expensive than the closest Mackie ProDX mixer. The Soundcraft Ui12 bears some resemblance, I/O and feature-wise, to the ProDX8, at the same price. But, again, none of these "equivalents" offer a user interface that allows "eyes free" operation of basic controls in addition to the phone/tablet UI, and therefore, comparison is irrelevant.

A good friend of mine works for the firm that reps Music Group, so maybe I'll see if I can get one of the little Behringer units on eval for a couple of weeks. I've been keeping my eye on the app, and am still not particularly impressed, as much as I do like what their hardware promises. But, I still think there's value in tactile controls for quick adjustments in this application, which the Behringers lack.

I should add that, had Behringer shipped the original X16 (yes, sixteen) when initially promised, I would have purchased that, and for my use, the XR18 feature set is almost perfect (I would like a few more XLR inputs, though I don't need/want 32). If the software were better....

For a "big" board, I have to say I really like the X32, and even the Midas M32 and Pro1/2 (although I really don't see why anyone would buy the M32, but that's another argument). Having used the Allen & Heaths, Yamahas, Presonus, I find them, from a user perspective, superior to all of their competition. Again, the downfall for me is in the phone/tablet apps.

[gerenm63]

A good friend of mine works for the firm that reps Music Group, so maybe I'll see if I can get one of the little Behringer units on eval for a couple of weeks. I've been keeping my eye on the app, and am still not particularly impressed, as much as I do like what their hardware promises. But, I still think there's value in tactile controls for quick adjustments in this application, which the Behringers lack.

Never mind -- won't bother. I just remembered that there is no iPhone app for the Behringer XR mixers. In fact, in these price ranges, only Mackie support the iPhone. Behringer does support the Ultranet thing, but that kind of defeats the purpose.

[WK154]

I guess we can at least agree to not agree on the subject discussed, a good thing. To make the assumption that " This could go on forever, to no one's benefit...    " is not yours or for that matter mine to make. Forums are for an exchange of ideas, experience and disagreements.
Not to make assumptions about it's intended use here is Mackie's take.
Olswang commented. “ProDX was designed to deliver a powerful digital mixer with the ease of use of an analog mixer, all at an incredible price, perfect for solo performers, small bands and commercial applications.”
We can interpret small bands and commercial applications many ways.
Not sure what you mean by "eyes free" but here is Mackie again.
"Both models feature an integrated control bridge, offering a convenient place to set a phone or tablet at just the right angle for keeping an eye on the mix."
Kind of hard to do " eyes free " sight read and play unless you're Stevie Wonder.
I suppose that my Zoom (modem company not Samson) models 4311 and 4312 a class 1 device rated at a 100 meters (330 feet) and V2.0+EDR at 3 Mbps never existed (mine still works). Like I stated I've been using Bluetooth since it's inception. I also helped develop the USAF MATS field communications system back in the 90's which Bluetooth was build on (Spread Spectrum technology). I consider it more reliable than Wifi. The Bluetooth Piconet also handles up to 8 devices.
I do suspect that your opinion is based on available single chip implementations available in the market place not on what the spec defined or some companies produced. IIRC the power specifications (part of the distance performance) has been there since the Core V1.0 spec. Just because some engineers can't add power amplification to their product only makes it a limitation to their product. Not here for a pissing contest just trying to keep the record straight and prevent myths from propagating.

[gerenm63]

I guess we can at least agree to not agree on the subject discussed, a good thing. To make the assumption that " This could go on forever, to no one's benefit...    " is not yours or for that matter mine to make. Forums are for an exchange of ideas, experience and disagreements.
Not to make assumptions about it's intended use here is Mackie's take.
Olswang commented. “ProDX was designed to deliver a powerful digital mixer with the ease of use of an analog mixer, all at an incredible price, perfect for solo performers, small bands and commercial applications.”
We can interpret small bands and commercial applications many ways.
Not sure what you mean by "eyes free" but here is Mackie again.
"Both models feature an integrated control bridge, offering a convenient place to set a phone or tablet at just the right angle for keeping an eye on the mix."
Kind of hard to do " eyes free " sight read and play unless you're Stevie Wonder.
I suppose that my Zoom (modem company not Samson) models 4311 and 4312 a class 1 device rated at a 100 meters (330 feet) and V2.0+EDR at 3 Mbps never existed (mine still works). Like I stated I've been using Bluetooth since it's inception. I also helped develop the USAF MATS field communications system back in the 90's which Bluetooth was build on (Spread Spectrum technology). I consider it more reliable than Wifi. The Bluetooth Piconet also handles up to 8 devices.
I do suspect that your opinion is based on available single chip implementations available in the market place not on what the spec defined or some companies produced. IIRC the power specifications (part of the distance performance) has been there since the Core V1.0 spec. Just because some engineers can't add power amplification to their product only makes it a limitation to their product. Not here for a pissing contest just trying to keep the record straight and prevent myths from propagating.

I remember Zoom modems quite well, thank you very much. I've been working with RF data technologies since the early 80's, before moving on to large-scale networks. I did that kind of work for 15 years, until I suffered a nervous breakdown, and basically lost my mind. From that point on, I left the world of data, and concentrated more on technology application. And, I fell back to my more artistic interests, which predate my tech journey. My opinions on Bluetooth are base on a combination of theory and reality...

Moving on.

Let me ask you a question: Do you perform regularly? By that, I mean, play an instrument on stage in front of people? I do, and have, for over 35 years. I've been doing live sound and lights and stage, radio, and television production literally since childhood. It gives me a different perspective on all of this than a lot of people who do sound or, seemingly, chase gear for gears sake.

[WK154]

I started in AVL in 7th grade (Stagecrafters) all aspects. Actually the V was F for film back then. That makes it about 60 years part time. I never made it a profession went into Scientific instruments/computers/automation and never looked back. I did however continue my interest in AVL. After retirement 14 years ago I resumed my hobby and side job. Over the years I have produced hundreds of shows and performances as the FOH Engineer/producer/director and grunt. My current focus is mostly studio work (build several). My last gig with a XR18 was Saturday on a Dinner/Show sold out at 323. Several Pro performers on the show plus a choir (regional winner SAI headed to an International competition in the fall). Headed to Auckland NZ before that for a International Quartet competition (YWIH). My wife is the performer/mentor. More vocal and theater than instruments but not exclusive. I do get to hear the gripes about instruments and certainly hear them here. I design sound systems and implement them so I'm always on the lookout for new gear. I am a AES associate.

[Michael Welter]

I can see applications for these mixers for small, coffee house, performers. It's low price and small size make it easily accessible for this market. But for someone like me, who just does FOH mixing, I'll stick with my DL.