Setup Pictures

[WK154]

So you were busy blowing eardrums out at a 1 ft and 133 dBc

[Wynnd]

Don't think anyone was standing that close.  There were steps up to a plaza that provided a nice stage and the FOH was right on the top edge of the steps.  You remember that I don't like loud and from where most were standing the levels should have been fairly reasonable.  I didn't want to push too much sound because across the grass was a library and beside the grass was the police station.  Interesting place.  Event was an electric vehicle event with Kill-a-Cycle drag bike represented there.  Tesla didn't exist yet.  (It's been a few years.) 

[walterw]

about why the driveracks, your answers make sense for the multiple speaker arrangements and whatnot; in my mind the 1608 as a 16ch board means "bands in bars" means simple 2-way systems that i can do with using aux 6 as a sub out and using the 24dB filter rolloffs as an ad-hoc 2-way crossover.

[Wynnd]

Got the DL last Sept.  Been using the DriveRack PA since 2005.  Been doing sound events in Colorado since shortly after 9/11.   (Anti-war protest with 4000 attendees.)  The driverack makes setting up odd speaker configurations pretty easy. 

[WK154]

about why the driveracks, your answers make sense for the multiple speaker arrangements and whatnot; in my mind the 1608 as a 16ch board means "bands in bars" means simple 2-way systems that i can do with using aux 6 as a sub out and using the 24dB filter rolloffs as an ad-hoc 2-way crossover.

Let me give you my rendition. First you stated that you have amps, that means you have more than one and you are running passive. Control of the speakers is awkward at best using aux6 and L&R (I would use aux1 since it is close to L&R for switching) for loudness or balance control. As to the "ad-hock" crossover, there is a reason why speaker processors exist and the last thing you'd want to do is generate a notch in the vocal range. There is also no reason "bar bands" have to suck. Unfortunately Mackie did a poor job of providing a decent crossover (actually none) in the DL probably because they would have had to address the multiple speaker control with a better solution than layer switching.

[walterw]

sure;

nothing saying bar bands have to "suck", just that excess complexity may not be needed when the system is just balancing out stage volume half the time.

+1 to a proper crossover being a sadly missing element here; a "2+1" arrangement with an aux turned into a proper "subs out" that follows the main levels would be nice, as would say an option for a mono "tops/subs" instead of "L/R" on the main outs.

(also, i don't get too many notches in the vocal range at my 100Hz crossover point. if you're talking about trying to fudge 3-way mid/high crossovers with DL aux channels, then yeah, that seems pretty unlikely to turn out well.)

[Wynnd]

My own thought is that bar band PAs don't have to suck.  most of them can be set up quite well.  Few are.  I think it's like when someone decides that they like bass, so they turn the bass the whole way up.  The speakers, if marginal, die and then you have no bass.  Or more likely, the excessive bass starts to muddy the sound and overall sound quality drops.  (And the user has no clue as to why.  But he likes bass and is happy.)  A lot of poorly setup PA systems are lacking in the midrange.  The infamous "smiley face" EQ.  (Sometimes it's a frown.)  Whenever someone draws a smile or frown on an EQ, it's a sign of not understanding what an EQ is for.  Properly setup, it should look more like some missing teeth.  (And maybe not many.)   I'm probably preaching to the choir. 

[WK154]

WalterW since I don't know what speakers and amps you have I'm operating blind. The crossover for various systems can vary widely. For instance a Peavey PR-15 has a crossover at 1800 Hz, which starts at 49 Hz. A QSC Ksub goes from 44 to 144 Hz at 10 dB down quite a limited range yet their K12 starts at 48 Hz and that crossover is a mystery (DSP controlled). Vocal range is from about 120 Hz to 880 Hz for the fundamental unless your Royce "The Voice" Reynolds whose start at 60Hz. A lot of setups can crossover in the vocal range and you need to include the harmonics which takes you to 8K - 10K.
One of the ways I've used the DL in a tri-amped (well almost) situation (tops/sub) is to use L&R and pan. All control is with the master fader using L for tops and R for subs. The balance of what goes to subs and what to tops is controlled in the channels pan and loudness of both is with the master fader along with overall balance of the mix, no aux's required. Most amps I'm familiar with have mono in dual mono out to drive at least 2 tops and 2 subs.
Wynnd you need to get some control over your gang. Actually the GEQ your referring to is still to broad for notching out feedback since it's at a 1/3 octave and fixed frequency. Better than nothing but the parametrics  at 1/12 octave and frequency accurate are a better choice for now.

[walterw]

WalterW since I don't know what speakers and amps you have I'm operating blind.

pretty prosaic stuff, like yorkie E15 tops off of non-DSP amps, and powered subs; i just run tops LR and run the sub out of aux 6, using the nifty 24dB high and low-pass filters to cross over at 100Hz. (i roll the internal crossover on the powered subs well up above 100, so they're not involved.)

One of the ways I've used the DL in a tri-amped (well almost) situation (tops/sub) is to use L&R and pan. All control is with the master fader using L for tops and R for subs. The balance of what goes to subs and what to tops is controlled in the channels pan and loudness of both is with the master fader along with overall balance of the mix, no aux's required.

so this is all into powered boxes with their own crossovers going on? i like it! (that's not "tri-amped" as i understand it though, as you're not running separate active crossovers between mids and highs. )

Actually the GEQ your referring to is still to broad for notching out feedback since it's at a 1/3 octave and fixed frequency. Better than nothing but the parametrics  at 1/12 octave and frequency accurate are a better choice for now.

big +1, letting me get rid of those stupid graphics was the best upgrade mackie did after the pre-compression aux update. i just wish the "ghost" image of them wasn't still there in the background, i want them to go away entirely.

[WK154]

Yup that's why I said "almost" you have control of the subs and the tops but your at the mercy of the manufacturer on the mid/high crossover in the tops. But most do a decent job even if they don't spec it. Works for both powered and passive combo's.

[stevegarris]

Yup that's why I said "almost" you have control of the subs and the tops but your at the mercy of the manufacturer on the mid/high crossover in the tops. But most do a decent job even if they don't spec it. Works for both powered and passive combo's.

This is how I mix when I need every once of power I can get for a Hair Metal band. I use Left for the subs, and only allow kick, keys and bass into the subs. The sound is cleaner, and I can get maximum thump out of just (2) JBL 18" xlf's. I run the tops (PRX615's) in their full range mode.