DL32R Latency while recording.

[Sir Krang]

And I'd like to add that I'm a hugely happy DL1608 owner. I absolutely love this mixer, and all the stuff it can do.

Having come from the live music scene in the late 80's onwards I broke my back loading all that heavy live sound speaker shit. And it drove me mad dealing with venues about where I could and couldn't set up my FOH mixer, and multicore cabling (I think we can all relate to this)

Mackie has pushed the small venue gig setup to the next level, and I'm So Grateful to Mackie for how simple and streamlined they have made my otherwise tedious, time consuming, and back breaking job!

Some parts of the Internet might refer to me as an "Apple Fan boy"

Yeah, well maybe. But the simple plain fact remains that I dig how simple iOS is to use from my "average joe" perspective. Simple, easy to grasp, no unnecessary frills.
I regard Mackies Master Fader OS in the same way.
Simple, easy to grasp, no unnecessary frills.
No user manual required, coz it all makes perfect sense

[Wynnd]

I'm just going to assume that your drummer is able to hear something that I can't.  My one drummer is using a Roland E-drum kit.  No problems, but we're not using monitors.  (PA in the backline.  Low volume band.) Could also be the results of growing up with high speed games.  He might be able to notice latency that 99.9 % would never notice.  (Kind of like perfect pitch.  Rare but it does exist.)  I'm with you on making him happy.  It's the right thing to do.

[RoadRanger]

While it would be interesting to acquire the show file and actually measure the delay I'm not that interested . Maybe Mackie would want to check it out?

I suspect that eDrums have some latency themselves, maybe that added to the mixer's latency is enough to be noticeable? OTOH this is the first report I've seen of ANY digital mixer's latency being noticeable on eDrums in-ears monitoring. I have heard of some singer's demanding analog monitoring of their voice in their in-ears but that's more a matter of their direct voice "combing" with the in-ears.

[Wynnd]

I really am going to attribute this to his sensitivity being much sharper than most.  Hey, stuff like this happens.  I wouldn't notice latency less than 30 milli-seconds.   (But I'm old and slow.)   When we're young we think that everyone experiences things the same, but that's not true.  I wasn't able to visually follow a hit golf ball until I was over 30 years old.  Most people never have problems doing that. 

[Greg C.]

Anyway due to our personal history of hundreds of gigs together I'm perfectly happy to listen to his opinions, and feedback.
If he heard a noticeable delay in his ears when we tried to simplify his monitor patching using a direct AUX send from the DL then I'm 100% happy with his observations.

He heard it. I accept that. We went back to his "convoluted" analogue monitor system and he's all happy again.

This is a very real phenomenon. It can be far more egregious with IEMs and vocalists. There is enough delay to create some comb filtering between the IEMs and the resonance of one's sinus leading back into the ears. I know of one well known rock singer that had to go back to his own personal analog mixer just for his vocals after the band's monitor desk was swapped from analog desk to a Midas Pro series. He couldn't stand the delay. So he hears his own vocals through an analog mixer and the rest of the mix from the Pro 9 is feed to that mixer as well. He's happy. He uses a combo of IEMs and wedges, the wedges being fed from the Pro 9 too.

[Sir Krang]

Anyway due to our personal history of hundreds of gigs together I'm perfectly happy to listen to his opinions, and feedback.
If he heard a noticeable delay in his ears when we tried to simplify his monitor patching using a direct AUX send from the DL then I'm 100% happy with his observations.

He heard it. I accept that. We went back to his "convoluted" analogue monitor system and he's all happy again.

This is a very real phenomenon. It can be far more egregious with IEMs and vocalists. There is enough delay to create some comb filtering between the IEMs and the resonance of one's sinus leading back into the ears. I know of one well known rock singer that had to go back to his own personal analog mixer just for his vocals after the band's monitor desk was swapped from analog desk to a Midas Pro series. He couldn't stand the delay. So he hears his own vocals through an analog mixer and the rest of the mix from the Pro 9 is feed to that mixer as well. He's happy. He uses a combo of IEMs and wedges, the wedges being fed from the Pro 9 too.

Thanks Greg.
I have full faith in his observation, and I'm sure you would too if you knew him personally

[WK154]

G'day Sir Krang
Please re-read the post and then point out where I pointed to you as the problem. Believe me if that was the case you would know it. I simply wanted the info on the e-drums in use and the hookup nothing more. Since the solution exists and the drummer is happy I consider this closed. I do find it interesting that after hundreds of gigs together you don't know what  equipment Daz has. FYI Roland's top V-drum set run $7500 here in the US. Most drummers typically have 7-9 milliseconds before noticing anything. Since most of the delay would be in the e-drums I'm sure there would have been room to cut the delay to equal the analog setup. I'm also not questioning his hearing. So don't do a walkabout over this.
Cheers Bill

[Sir Krang]

Please re-read the post and then point out where I pointed to you as the problem. Believe me if that was the case you would know it.

You didn't. RR suggested it in his post.

I simply wanted the info on the e-drums in use and the hookup nothing more. Since the solution exists and the drummer is happy I consider this closed. I do find it interesting that after hundreds of gigs together you don't know what  equipment Daz has.

I play guitar, a bit, and have virtually zero interest in the major details of drums, bass guitar, keyboards etc.
All I know is it's made by Roland and cost him $15000 a few years ago. The bass play uses a mark bass head and cab but I don't know the model.
The guitarist plays a Gibson Les Paul through a digitech multi effect pedal board, into a Marshall JCM200 TSL 2x12 combo. I like guitar gear LOL

 

FYI Roland's top V-drum set run $7500 here in the US. Most drummers typically have 7-9 milliseconds before noticing anything. Since most of the delay would be in the e-drums I'm sure there would have been room to cut the delay to equal the analog setup. I'm also not questioning his hearing. So don't do a walkabout over this.
Cheers Bill

Now that you mention V-drum I think I may have seen that on his setup. Can't be sure though

[WK154]

Based on the water bottles it was setup time. Can't tell what the floor tom was doing there it's not part of the V setup. Maybe a base for the Behringer mixer sitting on top? It certainly looks like a TD-30KV-V Pro setup otherwise. I loose the bet. He also is a VOX (SM58) and that may be the reason for the additional mixer. The TD-30 is a 16 input mixer and with 4 aux inputs there should be room for PA (DL) input to mix with direct from the TD-30 his IEM source. It actually all depends on all that he wants in his IEM's.

[Sir Krang]

Based on the water bottles it was setup time. Can't tell what the floor tom was doing there it's not part of the V setup. Maybe a base for the Behringer mixer sitting on top? It certainly looks like a TD-30KV-V Pro setup otherwise. I loose the bet. He also is a VOX (SM58) and that may be the reason for the additional mixer. The TD-30 is a 16 input mixer and with 4 aux inputs there should be room for PA (DL) input to mix with direct from the TD-30 his IEM source. It actually all depends on all that he wants in his IEM's.

Yes, Daz is an extremely talented musician.
The small mixer is sitting on a "dummy" floor tom. He also uses a dummy acoustic kick drum shell over his electric kick. It has the bands logo on it, and looks better than the tiny electric "kick drum"
He supplies the best backing vocal in the band via the SM58
He also supplies all the midi backing tracks via an iPad which is hard to see in that pic. iPad audio left is click track, and right is mono midi backing track.
All of this (except for his vocal) plugs into his little analogue mixer. From his mixer I get stereo drums, and mono midi tracks.
He has drums, midi, and click track directly fed to his IEM's
I also send him a small amount of main and backing vocals from the other band members. (Everybody sings)
His mixer also runs a high output 15"+horn cab that supplies a general drum mix onstage for the other band members.
I add a general vocal mix and midi tracks through 2 x 15"+horn "sidefill" cabs (not always sidefill. We put them where they work best for whatever stage configuration.

Daz is a human metronome and I'm grateful for being able to work with someone with so much talent.
He is the gel that holds the whole band together. Sometimes under trying conditions.
Our 2 main vocalists sometimes "get lost" in more complex songs, like Meatloafs "paradise by the dashboard light"
Daz is able to pull them back on track when they get lost in the changes simply because he has all that stuff going on in ears all the time.
It's imperative he has 100% accurate "foldback"

100% accurate simply didn't happen when we re-patched his monitors through the DL.

And once again, NO I didn't make any mistakes. I'd be happy to admit to that if I did.
It's easy to suggest personal mistakes may have been made on the Internet simply because anybody doesn't know anybody else's skill level or history.

I'm not a newbie pleb with no idea what I'm doing.

The thing I love most about my Apple gear is that it just so simple to use I can't see why anybody would have  problem.
Master fader, to me, has the exact same simple to use for everyone charactistics.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I've gone a bit off topic and don't want to derail this thread any further than to say a pro Muso has noticed "latency" when using the DL.

Is it all the DL's fault?
I dunno. Maybe a combination of several areas of latency.

All good now though coz Daz, and his band who are my bread and butter, is happy again